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[Locked] Why quit ban is stupid and shouldn't exist.

OP X19Doug95

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ronnie42 wrote:
ronnie42 wrote:
Sn
ronnie42 wrote:
ronnie42 wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Just played a game of BTB going solo. Of course I get matched with a full team. Starts out 7v8 because why not.

Another player quits as we are getting dismantled. Game ends 100-40. Myself and another player go positive. We basically just turtled in our base and hid. Rest of the team had scores like 2-18, 1-22, 3-16, and 0-24.

I should be punished for leaving that game? Why?
The experience would have been the same for everyone else involved. The party could continue farming hapless players and my teammates would have continued running directly at them spraying ARs.
This is a situation that I feel a "Vote to Forfeit" option would greatly benefit.

But as it stands, which side would you pick?

You for wanting to leave, or the six people you left behind and made it that much worse of a game?
I've personally stuck to matches that were 2 vs 6+ before, because unlike you, I value other peoples besides myself. As much as it may suck, I'd rather not see it worse off then it already is for the other people of my team.

This is why we need to push for better options to ending the match early when we feel it's clearly not going to turn around. Instead of promoting that it's ok to quit when your not having fun. I simply put cannot side with a selfish decision, it's just how I am. Those type decision never make the situation better, only worse. If you promote that it's OK to just leave whenever, it starts being an even bigger problem for everyone down the line.
You are really trying to take the moral high ground ain't ya? Since when is it wrong to leave a match that has absolutely no chance to win and all of your teammates just charge the enemy with ARs blazing, racking up a whopping 5 combined kills doing it? It's not wrong to do, and it hurts no one's experience to do it.
Wrong. It hurt's many players experience. Just because you don't care does not mean you speak for the rest of us. Many of us are staying in game to help our team and not every game should lead to quitting just because they can't cope with losing a match. Why should I be forced to play on a team that keeps quitting? so my experience would be ruined and players like this would make online unplayable making it even more difficult to win a match. I'm glad these penalties are in place so I don't have to listen to players excuses in-game for why they decided to quit the last match just so they can do it again when something random doesn't go up to their way in-game. If there's no penalty for quitting then what's to stop people quitting because they didn't get their sniper rifle? nothing. People will always make ridiculous excuses for why they'd quit and if quitting was allowed then the game would be pretty dead online with poor balancing a majority of the time.

Seriously don't know why this thread is continuing any further since it's run its course and 343i is never going to change this regardless of if a few random gamers complain about why they can't ruin the game for others.
You realize most people don't quit just because they are losing right? I've never quit a game simply because "uhg we are losing". The reason people quit is because it's not fun to get stomped 9-50, not simply because it's a loss. Me quitting a game that is 3-29 isn't going to change anyone's experience in that game, because it's basically already over. And really, be real with yourself, very few people are going to quit simply because they didn't get the sniper rifle or because they aren't winning every game, stop using strawman arguments.
Snip
I wonder if you actually believe that lie or not. Because if it were true Abandonment penalties wouldn't be a thing, they wouldn't be being turned up a notch as we speak, and people wouldn't be constantly complaining about leavers if it were actually true.
Abandonment penalties exist because 343 is too lazy to come up with a proper solution (a proper balancing system).
or 343i probably just doesn't live in the world of make believe and fantasy like you do. Lol
Yes, the make believe world of good matchmaking that Call of Duty, Battlefront, Battlefield, CSGO, and Rainbow Six Siege all live in. But no, it doesn't exist does it.
>Call of Duty

You mean, "Join-in-Progress Simulator 20XX"?
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Unless the person that left was literally running up to the enemy so they can kill him for frags or suiciding over and over again.
But it's okay for my team to do so? If I am responsible for making sure I never lag out, have my game crash, etc, surely it is not crazy to expect other players to at least be familiar with the controls?
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Unless the person that left was literally running up to the enemy so they can kill him for frags or suiciding over and over again.
But it's okay for my team to do so? If I am responsible for making sure I never lag out, have my game crash, etc, surely it is not crazy to expect other players to at least be familiar with the controls?
No obviously it's not ok if your Team Mates leave.

They can be a little lenient so that occasionally lagging out won't effect you. But if your constantly getting lagged out then yes, you are a problem that needs to be dealt with. Generally I would state that this is when you would educate them on how to play. Doing so actually helps the community as a whole if people would help one another out instead of attacking them instead. But of course 343i had to overly complicate both voice and text chat in this game so I'll give you that.

Bad teammates are a problem that gets solved by finding friends online ( doesn't have to be real life friends, you can actually find them online! ) and forming parties before hand. But that's generally too much of an expectation to get from lazy individuals who refuse to put forth any type of effort into improving the quality of matches and would rather sit on forums and whine all day. All those people complaining about having a team of randoms when they solo queue up and then whine when a stacked team of people who actually put forth effort totally crush them lol.

The only thing I'll admit though is I wish 343i didn't over complicate the chat features in this game. I miss being able to help new players actually get better at the game ( this includes teammates as well as people on the enemy team bare in mind ). Used to do that all the time when I played Quake/Team Fortress back in the late 90's and it was fun to see people improve alongside you. Improved the quality of matches over all even when everyone got better at the game. Definitely miss those communities back then.
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Unless the person that left was literally running up to the enemy so they can kill him for frags or suiciding over and over again.
But it's okay for my team to do so? If I am responsible for making sure I never lag out, have my game crash, etc, surely it is not crazy to expect other players to at least be familiar with the controls?
No obviously it's not ok if your Team Mates leave.

They can be a little lenient so that occasionally lagging out won't effect you. But if your constantly getting lagged out then yes, you are a problem that needs to be dealt with. Generally I would state that this is when you would educate them on how to play. Doing so actually helps the community as a whole if people would help one another out instead of attacking them instead. But of course 343i had to overly complicate both voice and text chat in this game so I'll give you that.

Bad teammates are a problem that gets solved by finding friends online ( doesn't have to be real life friends, you can actually find them online! ) and forming parties before hand. But that's generally too much of an expectation to get from lazy individuals who refuse to put forth any type of effort into improving the quality of matches and would rather sit on forums and whine all day. All those people complaining about having a team of randoms when they solo queue up and then whine when a stacked team of people who actually put forth effort totally crush them lol.

The only thing I'll admit though is I wish 343i didn't over complicate the chat features in this game. I miss being able to help new players actually get better at the game ( this includes teammates as well as people on the enemy team bare in mind ). Used to do that all the time when I played Quake/Team Fortress back in the late 90's and it was fun to see people improve alongside you. Improved the quality of matches over all even when everyone got better at the game. Definitely miss those communities back then.
I said would it not be following the same line of thinking if we started banning players for going negative. They ruin the experience for their team just as much as players leaving. I'd rather a player just quit instead of going afk or feeding the other team kills all game.

No one is saying they expect to be able to consistently go into MM with a walmart connection and not expect action to be taken against them eventually. Stop doing that. It's very dishonest. The game has always had issues with lags outs happening every now and again, so to ban the playerbase for a problem with THEIR game is incredibly daft. Same thing goes for crashes.

You shouldn't have to play in a party every time either. The whole point of MM is to find those other players for you. It's not too much of an ask to want to have just a little bit of thought put into creating those matchups.

We agree on helping out lesser skilled players and the chat features, so at least we have common ground there. Is the quit ban really helping those lesser skilled or new players though? Forcing them to stay in a game to basically act as a bot isn't doing them any favors when it comes to learning and practicing.

I'd hardly categorize any of the very real reasons to oppose the new quit ban as "whining", but okay. The game is perfect I guess.
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
GRNT WRK wrote:
Unless the person that left was literally running up to the enemy so they can kill him for frags or suiciding over and over again.
But it's okay for my team to do so? If I am responsible for making sure I never lag out, have my game crash, etc, surely it is not crazy to expect other players to at least be familiar with the controls?
No obviously it's not ok if your Team Mates leave.

They can be a little lenient so that occasionally lagging out won't effect you. But if your constantly getting lagged out then yes, you are a problem that needs to be dealt with. Generally I would state that this is when you would educate them on how to play. Doing so actually helps the community as a whole if people would help one another out instead of attacking them instead. But of course 343i had to overly complicate both voice and text chat in this game so I'll give you that.

Bad teammates are a problem that gets solved by finding friends online ( doesn't have to be real life friends, you can actually find them online! ) and forming parties before hand. But that's generally too much of an expectation to get from lazy individuals who refuse to put forth any type of effort into improving the quality of matches and would rather sit on forums and whine all day. All those people complaining about having a team of randoms when they solo queue up and then whine when a stacked team of people who actually put forth effort totally crush them lol.

The only thing I'll admit though is I wish 343i didn't over complicate the chat features in this game. I miss being able to help new players actually get better at the game ( this includes teammates as well as people on the enemy team bare in mind ). Used to do that all the time when I played Quake/Team Fortress back in the late 90's and it was fun to see people improve alongside you. Improved the quality of matches over all even when everyone got better at the game. Definitely miss those communities back then.
I said would it not be following the same line of thinking if we started banning players for going negative. They ruin the experience for their team just as much as players leaving. I'd rather a player just quit instead of going afk or feeding the other team kills all game.

No one is saying they expect to be able to consistently go into MM with a walmart connection and not expect action to be taken against them eventually. Stop doing that. It's very dishonest. The game has always had issues with lags outs happening every now and again, so to ban the playerbase for a problem with THEIR game is incredibly daft. Same thing goes for crashes.

You shouldn't have to play in a party every time either. The whole point of MM is to find those other players for you. It's not too much of an ask to want to have just a little bit of thought put into creating those matchups.

We agree on helping out lesser skilled players and the chat features, so at least we have common ground there. Is the quit ban really helping those lesser skilled or new players though? Forcing them to stay in a game to basically act as a bot isn't doing them any favors when it comes to learning and practicing.

I'd hardly categorize any of the very real reasons to oppose the new quit ban as "whining", but okay. The game is perfect I guess.
Playing with friends in forming parties will probably always be the ideal way to play any type of team oriented game no matter how you swing it. This is why people hate going up against people in parties.

When it comes to matchmaking, it's using an AI that's attempting to identify individuals and pair them together. But honestly how well do you think an AI can pair good matches together on a constant rate when just about everyone that plays is dramatically different from one another? More so in a game where one or two bad teammates can make or break a match. How many people have you matched up solo queuing that actually communicate with one another in game? Communication is a huge advantage all in on itself. Instead of jumping into an area blindly. You have a teammate that lets you know how many enemies, what type of weapons they're carrying, how damage they may or may not be, ect.?

Then I'd say we also live in a day where people won't hesitate to drop on a dime if they're team is not operating at what they considered "their standards". Which again, varies from just about everyone that plays...

This is why people thinking improving the matchmaking system is a fantasy dream. It may improve it a little, but it will not fix everything. The game will still be plagued with people that grief, cheat, and won't hesitate to drop their team on a dime if they're even the slightest bit dissatisfied with how things are turning out. This is a flaw with Matchmaking in general and is one I don't see ever being "fixed".

What we need is good community servers that people can freely enter and leave back when you could search servers and join them freely if you want an actual more casual experience. I heard we are getting this too. When those pop up I'm sure a lot of people will move over to those for actual casual fun matches...
So I'm feeling pretty torn on this due to my experience with mcc crashing vs quitters. To my knowledge, there is no way to determine this on the dev end.

Me and a buddy started recently achievement hunting and are regularly hopping into different parts of mcc campaign, FF, and matchmaking in efforts to complete challenges/achievements per play session. We both noticed the game crashes most frequently when jumping from engine go engine, especially during matchmaking. We both played on original Xbox one, and crash almost like clockwork after about 10 games, with halo 3 mm being the greatest offender. It has become religion to back out dash and quit mcc to avoid this problem. I recently upgraded to the series x due to my Xbox one finally kicking the bucket (goodnight, Sweet prince) and this -Yoink- still happens on mcc.

The point I want to make is that I shouldn't be punished for "quitting" until the game runs fairly stable on all intended platforms. Ladder banning punishes some players who have done nothing but play the game too much. Some may argue 5 minutes isn't a big deal, but I would argue otherwise. Having a growing family means I have less time overall to game, and don't want to sit in a menu for a game crash.
I think a lot of people are missing that we need to make completing matches more rewarding, not only harsher punishments for people who leave. Other games do not have as big as a problem as Halo with players leaving mid match. Games like Cod, Destiny, or Titanfall 2 have almost zero quit punishments and players rarely leave. The real question is, how can players be convinced to stay in a match even if they are losing? I think that one way to motivate players to stay is if challenges only complete if they finish the match as well as complete the objective.
X19Doug95 wrote:
I will edit this again because I'm stoned and forgot.
So what you really wanted to say was, "Why the prohibition didn't stop the production and distribution of alcohol, but instead made it worse."
I think a lot of people are missing that we need to make completing matches more rewarding, not only harsher punishments for people who leave. Other games do not have as big as a problem as Halo with players leaving mid match. Games like Cod, Destiny, or Titanfall 2 have almost zero quit punishments and players rarely leave. The real question is, how can players be convinced to stay in a match even if they are losing? I think that one way to motivate players to stay is if challenges only complete if they finish the match as well as complete the objective.
Sounds like an AFKer's paradise, unless you want to have a punitiveAFK timer.

Also, your solution still hits players that lag out/crash

Also also, this does nothing to disincentivise people quitting if they get a map they don't like, it even encourages it. But I'm sure that never occurred to you 🙄
What we need is good community servers that people can freely enter and leave back when you could search servers and join them freely if you want an actual more casual experience. I heard we are getting this too. When those pop up I'm sure a lot of people will move over to those for actual casual fun matches...
This right here ^^^.
When going from a feature like this from Halo 2 Project Cartographer to Halo MCC's Social Games, well, it wasn't pleasant.
I noticed Very quickly that Social Games was VERY different from what I played in the past, and was very disappointed in the way Social Games was. Thank goodness they are now adding CGB to MCC though! Honestly, this feature was what Made Halo 2 my favorite game of all time, and waiting for it has been a little difficult. Also, playing the beta for CGB was the most fun I had on Halo MCC since Halo MCC's Launch.
Just finished getting trashed on after a player left a 4v4 making it a 3v4, and one of my teammates was AFK, making it 2v4. About half way into the game the enemy team locked down spawns with snipers which meant moving literally 5 feet from spawn was an instant kill. Would've left the game, but guess what, I would've been temp banned. Why should I be banned from a game like that? FIX MATCH MAKING PLEASE.
Just finished getting trashed on after a player left a 4v4 making it a 3v4, and one of my teammates was AFK, making it 2v4. About half way into the game the enemy team locked down spawns with snipers which meant moving literally 5 feet from spawn was an instant kill. Would've left the game, but guess what, I would've been temp banned. Why should I be banned from a game like that? FIX MATCH MAKING PLEASE.
Hopefully one day years from now your mythical fix will come to matchmaking. You wouldn’t have to endure it though if you put a little effort into making friends online though. But you keep choosing to play with a disadvantage by relying on randoms.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Was watching the community playdate this weekend. Noticed one girl got a 5 minute ban for quitting because one of the other girls games froze so she had to reboot. That was really lame to watch them sit there until the ban was up.
Just finished getting trashed on after a player left a 4v4 making it a 3v4, and one of my teammates was AFK, making it 2v4. About half way into the game the enemy team locked down spawns with snipers which meant moving literally 5 feet from spawn was an instant kill. Would've left the game, but guess what, I would've been temp banned. Why should I be banned from a game like that? FIX MATCH MAKING PLEASE.
Hopefully one day years from now your mythical fix will come to matchmaking. You wouldn’t have to endure it though if you put a little effort into making friends online though. But you keep choosing to play with a disadvantage by relying on randoms.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You realize the point of matchmaking is to find you a competent team right? It's not my job to find people when the system is supposed to do it for me. Secondly, this system isn't mythical, it exists in a multitude of games. Have you never played anything but Halo MCC or something?
Just finished getting trashed on after a player left a 4v4 making it a 3v4, and one of my teammates was AFK, making it 2v4. About half way into the game the enemy team locked down spawns with snipers which meant moving literally 5 feet from spawn was an instant kill. Would've left the game, but guess what, I would've been temp banned. Why should I be banned from a game like that? FIX MATCH MAKING PLEASE.
Hopefully one day years from now your mythical fix will come to matchmaking. You wouldn’t have to endure it though if you put a little effort into making friends online though. But you keep choosing to play with a disadvantage by relying on randoms.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dude. We are not asking for something unrealistic. There are a many things that could be done to create a much better system.

You are literally saying that if you don't want to play with a team then you deserve to either be banned or have lopsided matches. That's crazy.

The presence of a quit ban implies that the MM is working properly. It clearly is not. That's why people are upset.

Could they find teammates? Probably. Should they have to? Absolutely not.
I got banned for quitting out of 2 different 2v4's.

This is ridiculous.

Im glad they finally added a ban system but there should be no penalty for quitting a 2v4 whatsoever.

Ive uninstalled and im just done with this. 343 is just something else
BANGHART wrote:
I got banned for quitting out of 2 different 2v4's.

This is ridiculous.

Im glad they finally added a ban system but there should be no penalty for quitting a 2v4 whatsoever.

Ive uninstalled and im just done with this. 343 is just something else
It's supposed to not have a penalty for quitting 2v4s but clearly it doesn't work correctly. I've heard it doesn't count a player if they quit before the match loads, but can't confirm that myself. No surprise that 343 can't get a ban system to work right though.
BANGHART wrote:
I got banned for quitting out of 2 different 2v4's.

This is ridiculous.

Im glad they finally added a ban system but there should be no penalty for quitting a 2v4 whatsoever.

Ive uninstalled and im just done with this. 343 is just something else
Good on you for walking away. No game is worth losing your peace of mind over, especially one that has received so much love from its players and has been mishandled this entire year and more by the very developers who yet again made an empty promise to not screw up like they did in the past (sorry for the run-on).
tuhin94 wrote:
BANGHART wrote:
I got banned for quitting out of 2 different 2v4's.

This is ridiculous.

Im glad they finally added a ban system but there should be no penalty for quitting a 2v4 whatsoever.

Ive uninstalled and im just done with this. 343 is just something else
Good on you for walking away. No game is worth losing your peace of mind over, especially one that has received so much love from its players and has been mishandled this entire year and more by the very developers who yet again made an empty promise to not screw up like they did in the past (sorry for the run-on).
They don't seem to have any clue what they are doing and I really don't get why. It really isn't hard. They need to clean out management and start from scratch clearly. If you need someone 343, I'm right here LOL.
GRNT WRK wrote:
Just finished getting trashed on after a player left a 4v4 making it a 3v4, and one of my teammates was AFK, making it 2v4. About half way into the game the enemy team locked down spawns with snipers which meant moving literally 5 feet from spawn was an instant kill. Would've left the game, but guess what, I would've been temp banned. Why should I be banned from a game like that? FIX MATCH MAKING PLEASE.
Hopefully one day years from now your mythical fix will come to matchmaking. You wouldn’t have to endure it though if you put a little effort into making friends online though. But you keep choosing to play with a disadvantage by relying on randoms.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dude. We are not asking for something unrealistic. There are a many things that could be done to create a much better system.

You are literally saying that if you don't want to play with a team then you deserve to either be banned or have lopsided matches. That's crazy.

The presence of a quit ban implies that the MM is working properly. It clearly is not. That's why people are upset.

Could they find teammates? Probably. Should they have to? Absolutely not.
Well then good luck to you getting your mythical update then sometime this year
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