Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Why Season Unlocks are Bad for MCC: Explained

OP Jacoby04

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3
I'll admit, it takes quite the big topic or series of upcoming changes to make me post. After reading the latest community update, I can't sit by without giving feedback regarding the new unlock and progression systems; particularly, I want to focus on seasonal unlockables (sunlocks for brevity).

Disclaimers and Assumptions:
  • I know the system is a work in progress; this is the best time for good discussion on well-thought feedback
  • I assume you have read the MCC Developer Update: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-may-2019 - Specifically, make sure to read about the progression and unlock systems for context
  • I assume when a season ends, you will still be able to always go back and unlock all items from previous seasons. This is based on the following quote from the article:
    Quote:
    Seasonal unlocks and any unspent season points will not disappear when the season rotates. Players will be able to go back and unlock items from a previous season, though they must be unlocked in order.

TL;DR - Main Point and Supporting Arguments:



Sunlocks are bad for MCC. They do not benefit the players, match the core ideas behind MCC, or inspire more ways to enjoy MCC.

Reasons:
  1. Sunlocks are not good for gamers in any game.
  2. Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a platform of "unlimited" challenges to tackle anytime.
  3. Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a celebration of all things Halo.
  4. Sunlocks go against older demographics of players with more limited amounts of time.
  5. Sunlocks are unnecessarily convoluted.
Note: If my third assumption above is correct, where you can still always unlock everything forever, reasons 1-4 are less critical; they still matter, but at least players can still always achieve all the game has to offer.

Reason 1: Sunlocks are not good for gamers in any game

If a player is a fan of a franchise and wants to be able to engage in all it has to offer or unlock all its content, seasons force those players to play the game during a specific timeframe; seasons create a time barrier to entry for a game's components. This is an issue for players with limited amounts of time, and it does not encourage gamers to take time to experience other games in the industry.

Some might respond, "Well, if those players really love the game, then they will want to play it. If they want to play other games, they shouldn't expect to be able to get things in Halo." This is a terrible sentiment; this points directly at the fact that seasonal unlocks create a time barrier for gamers. Gamers are people: human beings. We all have varied interests and tastes, and we have limited amounts of time to satisfy those in. Games should not be designed to go against people and their lifestyles. Additionally, games should always make their full suite of content achievable by players, especially in a celebratory collection like MCC.

(I won't go into free-to-play models, limited-time or holiday events, exclusive items, or difficulty blocking unlockables - that's gets hairy and I'd gladly discuss it with anyone one-on-one - but suffice to say I think these type of unlockables have their place.)

Reason 2: Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a platform of "unlimited" challenges to tackle anytime

One of the core design principles in MCC is that it hosts a multitude of challenges to choose from that players can pick up and try to accomplish at any time. The current mechanisms allow players to target desired items and work toward them at their leisure indefinitely.

For example, my friend and I have been playing MCC since day one (literally, I was there for hour-long wait times, unbalanced teams, split parties, and all the other fun). A month ago, we finally went and beat The Ark on Halo 3 Legendary with any vehicles (we had done it before, back when the achievement had issues). We loved it. We were so happy having something to conquer that is just as relevant today as when it came out.

Unlockables that are behind a time and currency system offer no unique spark, create no unique challenge to go after, and do not allow players to feel enticed to go for them for all time. I'm not saying every single unlockable must be hidden behind a challenge; my biggest complaint here is that the "challenge" that sunlocks do pose is not timeless.

Reason 3: Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a celebration of all things Halo

Another core design principle of MCC is having one big game that is a celebration of all things Halo. This involved releasing the armor that previously served as unlockables. People spent months and years acquiring armor unlocks previously; MCC removed that to serve as a hub to come back and revel in those memories while enjoying the games once again on whatever terms you'd like. (To balance this principle with the Halo fanactic's desire to have something to work for and unlock, nameplates, avatars, and more emblems were introduced; simple items to provide a happy medium.)

Holding from releasing items to await seasons or having players grind for items they previously grinded for goes against this design principle. I will concede there could be wiggle room with the type of items put into sunlocks, but I would also argue there are better ways as is already established.

Reason 4: Sunlocks go against older demographics of players with more limited amounts of time

Many Halo players on MCC have been around since the beginning, or Halo 3 at least (I apologize for making a claim without data to back it). As adults now, these people do not always have time to grind for items during various "seasons" of their own lives, despite still being passionate Halo fans that have been keeping the games and communities alive for years.

Halo MCC should serve as a Halo Home that all players, young and old as well as veterans and noobs, can come to enjoy. This means the players can hop in and out of Halo without having to worry about catching up on previous seasons. All of Halo, in its blinding majesty, should be at a player's fingertips.

I have a wedding coming up soon (I met my fiancee on Halo 3). We are going to be very busy planning. Why should we get behind on what Halo has to offer because we are doing something wonderful with our lives?

Regardless of how long a person has to spend away from Halo for whatever reason they may have - other games, busy lives, school, and more - Halo, and its unlockables, should welcome them back with open arms.

Reason 5: Sunlocks are unnecessarily convoluted

Sunlocks (and the new experience, challenge, and progression systems as a whole) are unnecessarily convoluted. In a game where players already navigate through campaign, social and ranked matchmaking, online and custom firefight, custom games, forge, theater, customization menus, legacy options, and more (I am not complaining about the amount of good here; I love MCC and how much it has to offer), the extra complications of multiple tier/level systems and experience vs currency seem unnecessary.

Try to explain to newcomers how all the various unlocks and pieces work. Go through the differences between achievement unlocks and sunlocks. Talk about where players can and cannot acquire certain things. This system screams messy, and it should be more conducive to easily understanding what you're working toward and when. Remember, you can complicate things quite easily, but it's always difficult to remove complexity.

To be continued and wrapped up...
The OP covers my main thoughts, but I have a bit of clean-up I want to do here.

Let me start by saying that I love 343i and Halo. <3 I'm really proud to be apart of this community and to see how everything has (combat) evolved over the years.

With my brief moment of emotion over, let's continue.

Alternatives:

I'm a firm believer in never offering criticism without also posing solutions. Here are a couple of ideas, that certainly need fleshing out, that quickly come to mind:
  • Moar achievements: We know they're coming, so let's just tuck the unlockables behind them. Unlockables not ready when the new game comes? Either hold some achievements back too, or retroactively provide unlockables for achievements.
  • Straight-forward shop: This solution is akin to what we had in Reach, just a plain old shop where you use experience or currency to get unlockables. It would be preferred because the in-game storefront would always be there hosting your future treasures, and you can go for what you want, when you want.
  • Unlock it all: Just like when MCC shipped, just give the people everything. Maybe it's just the armor? Maybe it's the whole kit and caboodle? Let people play Halo not because they feel obligated to grind for something, but because they love Halo.
  • Make better use of challenges: Dump all unlockables into either a daily or weekly challenge bucket. When you complete a challenge, get an unlockables from the respective bucket. You might not get to focus on what you want (or maybe you could!), but at least all the items would always be there to acquire in a consistent, non time bound manner.
These are just a few initial thoughts, which I'm sure others could top.

A Warning:

343 should not attempt to monetize any unlockables in any system ever (in MCC). That's all I should have to say about that.

Tangents:

What would a post be if not for having some kind of unrelated topics?

Seasonal ranks are bad

I know Halo 5 does it. I'm aware that many other games do it. To be honest, it might be the best modern way to do a ranking system. I am not saying this system doesn't have it's place.

However, Halo 2 and Halo 3 showed that the 1-50 skill system was something that created an environment where players truly strived to be and do better. It is the very foundation of competitive Halo. While it isn't perfect, this legacy should live on with the legacy Halo games, and it should not be continually reset.

The rank/experience system needs to encourage winning

Winning isn't everything, but boy does it stink when your teammates don't give a hoot about the game at hand. In past Halos, we have continually seen results of teammates trying and making the game more enjoyable when everyone has the common goal of winning. Halo 3 had the experience system. Halo: Reach introduced win bonuses. Halo needs to encourage players to care about the games they play again by giving bigger experience payouts for wins.

This is even more crucial if a grindy system for achieving unlockables is introduced. These systems tend to encourage people to sit in games they don't want to play for rewards. This is bad for Halo and needs to be countered.

Thank you!

I don't know if anyone will ever read all this, or if I will actually make an impact. However, I had to try and pour my heart and soul out into my beliefs about Halo.

Keep in mind, my beliefs might not match yours; that's okay. I'd be happy to have a discussion. Everything is good, so long as everyone has the common goal of genuinely making Halo better.
Couldn't agree more!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Although I personally disagree and believe that the current seasonal unlock model allows for a good game-by-game or theme-by-theme grouping without punishing fans for not playing, I appreciate you respectfully and thoroughly addressing the issue. I hope you won't mind if I respond in kind to each part of your argument. :)

Jacoby04 wrote:
Reason 1: Sunlocks are not good for gamers in any gameIf a player is a fan of a franchise and wants to be able to engage in all it has to offer or unlock all its content, seasons force those players to play the game during a specific timeframe; seasons create a time barrier to entry for a game's components. This is an issue for players with limited amounts of time, and it does not encourage gamers to take time to experience other games in the industry.

Some might respond, "Well, if those players really love the game, then they will want to play it. If they want to play other games, they shouldn't expect to be able to get things in Halo." This is a terrible sentiment; this points directly at the fact that seasonal unlocks create a time barrier for gamers. Gamers are people: human beings. We all have varied interests and tastes, and we have limited amounts of time to satisfy those in. Games should not be designed to go against people and their lifestyles. Additionally, games should always make their full suite of content achievable by players, especially in a celebratory collection like MCC.

(I won't go into free-to-play models, limited-time or holiday events, exclusive items, or difficulty blocking unlockables - that's gets hairy and I'd gladly discuss it with anyone one-on-one - but suffice to say I think these type of unlockables have their place.)
Disregarding games and game events that fit into your exceptions, I am unable to think of any game, even MCC with the proposed seasonal system, that forces a finite obtainment window. At first, I was inclined to discuss Fortnite, but that best fits into the free-to-play model. Then, I considered Destiny 2, but, with the exception of seasonal quest items (which only require the player to visit certain always-available characters to pick up the quest within the 3-month season), the only finite-window items are event items, which are also excluded. Even MCC's proposed unlock system would not punish players who do not play in a given season, according to your third assumption, because they can always unlock those items at a later date. As such, I agree with the explanation of your point, but I disagree with the point itself as the MCC system does not impose these restrictions on its players. Once available, always available.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Reason 2: Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a platform of "unlimited" challenges to tackle anytimeOne of the core design principles in MCC is that it hosts a multitude of challenges to choose from that players can pick up and try to accomplish at any time. The current mechanisms allow players to target desired items and work toward them at their leisure indefinitely.

For example, my friend and I have been playing MCC since day one (literally, I was there for hour-long wait times, unbalanced teams, split parties, and all the other fun). A month ago, we finally went and beat The Ark on Halo 3 Legendary with any vehicles (we had done it before, back when the achievement had issues). We loved it. We were so happy having something to conquer that is just as relevant today as when it came out.Unlockables that are behind a time and currency system offer no unique spark, create no unique challenge to go after, and do not allow players to feel enticed to go for them for all time. I'm not saying every single unlockable must be hidden behind a challenge; my biggest complaint here is that the "challenge" that sunlocks do pose is not timeless.
Ever since the large Halo MCC update last September, 343i has had multiple events in-game that required players to complete certain objectives within a limited time frame. Assuming such a principle were core to MCC's design (which is hard to say one way or another, as it probably depends on which developer you ask), these events would violate the "anytime" aspect of this principle and should have been considered contrary to the MCC philosophy. Personally, I loved them and asked for more, as I felt they increased my engagement with the title.

I've unlocked every achievement and every available cosmetic (with the exception of a few tied to the Community Spotlight and various exclusive groups that playtested the MCC) in the game, and I have a hard time justifying returning to the game while I still have unlocks to get in Halo 5 (freaking Targetmaster) and the 360 titles. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the MCC and I would definitely say that it is my favorite Halo game (although if we're talking about individual titles, that's Halo: CE). The sheer variety of content and things to do is immense, but it doesn't accomplish my goals (to get all in-game unlocks) to go back and enjoy them, so having regularly occurring unlockable releases tied to a system that allows for quick content addition (they don't have to create a new achievement or come up with a new challenge) is ideal for me, as it will encourage me to work towards unlocking those items each season.

Also, no unlockable can pose a "timeless" challenge, sunlock or otherwise. Once you have the unlockable, you have it. You can't go back and lock it again (although that might be an interesting concept on its own). True, there's less variety in the specific requirements for sunlocks, but a well-designed system will let you choose your own variety and work towards the sunlock any way you like, within reason. For now, that's matchmaking and challenges, but I'm sure they will look into other ways to earn currency.

Part 1 of 3
Continuation from previous post.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Reason 3: Sunlocks go against MCC philosophy: a celebration of all things HaloAnother core design principle of MCC is having one big game that is a celebration of all things Halo. This involved releasing the armor that previously served as unlockables. People spent months and years acquiring armor unlocks previously; MCC removed that to serve as a hub to come back and revel in those memories while enjoying the games once again on whatever terms you'd like. (To balance this principle with the Halo fanactic's desire to have something to work for and unlock, nameplates, avatars, and more emblems were introduced; simple items to provide a happy medium.)
Holding from releasing items to await seasons or having players grind for items they previously grinded for goes against this design principle. I will concede there could be wiggle room with the type of items put into sunlocks, but I would also argue there are better ways as is already established.
I will agree with you that the MCC is a celebration of all things Halo, especially with the upcoming addition of Halo: Reach. Initially, I was expecting to see all of the original Halo: Reach content unlocked at the start, with new unlockable content incorporated as before with achievements. However, I also saw a tremendous clamoring for a system that would allow players to go through the unlock phase again. I found it amazing that so many players actually wanted to "grind for items they previously grinded for," but the truth is that the MCC should be designed for the fans, and I personally don't mind having new additions to my goals.

As for the idea that 343i is "holding from releasing items to await seasons," based on the preliminary description of the progression system, each season will be themed around the title whose release caused the season. So, the first season will be all Halo: Reach content, the second season will be Halo: CE content, etc. Considering there will be cross-progression between PC and Xbox, the Xbox version will probably be limited in the unlocks they can provide until the corresponding title releases on PC, so it's not so much that 343i is holding content back for arbitrary reasons but that 343i wants to make sure players have the option to use the content they unlock when they unlock it, rather than wait several months before the corresponding title is ready.

Finally, the only old content that 343i could even put in this system is exclusively Halo: Reach content, which means all content for the other games must be developed from the ground up and added to the existing feature set, which seems to me like a way to celebrate the legacy of these games.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Reason 4: Sunlocks go against older demographics of players with more limited amounts of timeMany Halo players on MCC have been around since the beginning, or Halo 3 at least (I apologize for making a claim without data to back it). As adults now, these people do not always have time to grind for items during various "seasons" of their own lives, despite still being passionate Halo fans that have been keeping the games and communities alive for years.
Halo MCC should serve as a Halo Home that all players, young and old as well as veterans and noobs, can come to enjoy. This means the players can hop in and out of Halo without having to worry about catching up on previous seasons. All of Halo, in its blinding majesty, should be at a player's fingertips.
I have a wedding coming up soon (I met my fiancee on Halo 3). We are going to be very busy planning. Why should we get behind on what Halo has to offer because we are doing something wonderful with our lives?
Regardless of how long a person has to spend away from Halo for whatever reason they may have - other games, busy lives, school, and more - Halo, and its unlockables, should welcome them back with open arms.
As a college student, I absolutely know how it feels to play games with such a limited amount of time. I have certainly fallen behind when it comes to Destiny 2 and especially Fortnite (although my desire to play Fortnite has also declined), and I can completely understand why someone might feel overwhelmed if they are unable to finish one season before the next starts. However, by this logic, a game that provides all of its unlockable content up front should be especially worrisome; since there is so much content to unlock, where could one possibly begin? It would be like getting the MCC at the end of its lifespan with maybe 30 or 40 seasons in total, with all of the unlocks available for each. If the seasons were to continue ad infinitum in a neverending stream of content, I might agree that falling behind would be significantly detrimental, but all things must eventually come to an end, and there will eventually be a stop to MCC's content drops.

Furthermore, typical games have 3 month seasons, so you only have four seasons per year (probably why they're called seasons, to be honest). Now, the current plan for MCC is for the seasons to coincide with PC title releases, which may not be quite 3 months apart. As such, I can see that someone might not be able to finish the entire offering for one season before the next one begins, but typical players don't always want all of the content offered and will grind for a particular item or set of items that they want, going no further. I feel like getting behind might actually be beneficial in this system, since you get to prioritize which season's tiers you want to spend your points on.

Also, congratulations! I hope your wedding goes well for you both. :)

Jacoby04 wrote:
Reason 5: Sunlocks are unnecessarily convolutedSunlocks (and the new experience, challenge, and progression systems as a whole) are unnecessarily convoluted. ...the extra complications of multiple tier/level systems and experience vs currency seem unnecessary.
Try to explain to newcomers how all the various unlocks and pieces work. Go through the differences between achievement unlocks and sunlocks. Talk about where players can and cannot acquire certain things. This system screams messy, and it should be more conducive to easily understanding what you're working toward and when. Remember, you can complicate things quite easily, but it's always difficult to remove complexity.
To be continued and wrapped up...
Personally, I adore sensible complexity. One of the things I dislike about many modern games is the sheer number of currencies. Take Destiny 2, for example. You have Glimmer, Legendary Shards, Bright Dust, and Silver, among other minor items. That's four different currencies, and trying to explain the nuanced differences can be tricky.

Here, though, we have one currency: Season Points. If you want something in the season tiers, you pay for it with Season Points. You earn Season Points by leveling up and completing challenges. You level up by playing Matchmaking. Any locked cosmetic not in the season tiers is unlocked through achievements.

That's my TL;DR for the new progression system. I really don't think it's that confusing; hell, Reach was actually more confusing at first for me because I thought that spending credits caused you to go down in level, sort of like losing XP. This system strikes a good balance for me between the two unlock options (achievement unlocks are very fun and my personal preference as well, but they are more limited in their scope because of the difficulty of brainstorming and coding fun achievements).

Part 2 of 3
Some final thoughts in response to your second post.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Alternatives: I'm a firm believer in never offering criticism without also posing solutions. Here are a couple of ideas, that certainly need fleshing out, that quickly come to mind:
  • Moar achievements: We know they're coming, so let's just tuck the unlockables behind them. Unlockables not ready when the new game comes? Either hold some achievements back too, or retroactively provide unlockables for achievements.
  • Straight-forward shop: This solution is akin to what we had in Reach, just a plain old shop where you use experience or currency to get unlockables. It would be preferred because the in-game storefront would always be there hosting your future treasures, and you can go for what you want, when you want.
  • Unlock it all: Just like when MCC shipped, just give the people everything. Maybe it's just the armor? Maybe it's the whole kit and caboodle? Let people play Halo not because they feel obligated to grind for something, but because they love Halo.
  • Make better use of challenges: Dump all unlockables into either a daily or weekly challenge bucket. When you complete a challenge, get an unlockables from the respective bucket. You might not get to focus on what you want (or maybe you could!), but at least all the items would always be there to acquire in a consistent, non time bound manner.
These are just a few initial thoughts, which I'm sure others could top.
I would absolutely adore more achievements, and I'm all but positive that they will be adding a new set with the release of Halo: Reach. I look forward to grinding them out when they come out, and I am totally fine with associating unlockables with achievements. However, I don't think there will be enough achievements to contain all of the upcoming unlockables, so there must be another solution.

The shop idea is cool, and it certainly feels like Halo: Reach, but it just doesn't have the same appeal to me. I like the feeling of working through tiers to reach the maximum level in the set, and, being someone who enjoys ordering things, it gives a distinct unlock order to the items, rather than just "save up to get this armor piece!" You could update the shop over time with new content in a periodic fashion, but it feels more like IRL spending than I'm really comfortable with. I'm sure that I'm in the minority here, but I like my in-game "purchases" to feel like they're "in-game," so the idea of a store, while giving more player freedom, doesn't have the same "levelling-up" feel that a tier-based unlock system would have. Again, I might be in the minority here, but I just like working my way up more than just saving up "money" to buy something I don't really care much about. (The 100% is way more valuable to me than the individual unlockables)

The idea of unlocking everything is something I addressed earlier, and based on player feedback, it doesn't seem to be desired for Halo: Reach. It looks like most folks want to unlock their stuff again (which I think will be enjoyable). Also, I love Halo, but I also love accomplishing things in Halo, and that second part usually takes precedence for me.

Finally, the idea of tying stuff directly to challenge completion is a neat idea, but it more strongly limits daily and weekly challenges in the game. Take Halo 4, for example. In that game, challenges offered XP, which would level you up faster. The problem with this model is that challenges become useless once you reach the max rank, which was incredibly easy in that game. Once you were SR130, you don't need the challenges anymore. Having the cosmetics in a challenge pool is fine and all until you run out of cosmetics. Then, you either hope that 343i makes and releases more items into the pool, or you stop caring about challenges.

Jacoby04 wrote:
A Warning: 343 should not attempt to monetize any unlockables in any system ever. That's all I should have to say about that.
Although I could debate this fact for other Halo games, such as Halo Infinite, I completely agree for MCC. Monetization should not be applied to any of MCC's content, especially when most of Halo: Reach's content was previously released for free.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Seasonal ranks are bad I know Halo 5 does it. I'm aware that many other games do it. To be honest, it might be the best modern way to do a ranking system. I am not saying this system doesn't have it's place.

However, Halo 2 and Halo 3 showed that the 1-50 skill system was something that created an environment where players truly strived to be and do better. It is the very foundation of competitive Halo. While it isn't perfect, this legacy should live on with the legacy Halo games, and it should not be continually reset.
The reason that Halo 5 and other games are able to get away with seasonal ranks is because players don't start at level 1 when the reset occurs. You complete your placement matches, and you go back to your proper rank without needing to contribute a significant amount of time to get there. With the 1-50 system, you start at 1 and grind up from there, which will result in a detrimental experience for everyone playing ranked, particularly given how long it takes to get to 50. I completely agree that seasonal rank resets will be an issue with the current MCC ranking system, and I don't believe that this system should be overhauled for a better one in the MCC since so many people have a positive opinion of the 1-50 approach.

Jacoby04 wrote:
The rank/experience system needs to encourage winning Winning isn't everything, but boy does it stink when your teammates don't give a hoot about the game at hand. In past Halos, we have continually seen results of teammates trying and making the game more enjoyable when everyone has the common goal of winning. Halo 3 had the experience system. Halo: Reach introduced win bonuses. Halo needs to encourage players to care about the games they play again by giving bigger experience payouts for wins.This is even more crucial if a grindy system for achieving unlockables is introduced. These systems tend to encourage people to sit in games they don't want to play for rewards. This is bad for Halo and needs to be countered.
At the very least, the system needs to encourage active participation, which, if it rewards team-oriented medals with bonuses, it will. I am sure that victory bonuses will also be provided to players who win.

As for your concerns about AFK grinding, that is something that concerns me as well. It could be fixed by tracking players who are consistently AFKing and banning them from matchmaking. We currently have a system for banning quitters and dodgers, but it would be nice to have a system for banning AFKers as well.

Jacoby04 wrote:
Thank you! I don't know if anyone will ever read all this, or if I will actually make an impact. However, I had to try and pour my heart and soul out into my beliefs about Halo.

Keep in mind, my beliefs might not match yours; that's okay. I'd be happy to have a discussion. Everything is good, so long as everyone has the common goal of genuinely making Halo better.
Thank you as well for being respectful and courageous enough to share your feelings and beliefs about Halo in a constructive manner. I thoroughly enjoyed reading through your thoughts and responding to them. It's not often that I get to have such a nice discussion, so thank you for the opportunity!

Have a great day, friend!

Part 3 of 3
Cizlin wrote:
Jacoby04 wrote:
Stuff and things
Have a great day, friend!

Part 3 of 3
@Cizlin Thank you for the responses! Having even one other passionate Halo fan take the time to read this all, much less respond to everything, made it all worth it.

I won't go point by point through your response, but I did enjoy your thoughts. I don't think this would be the end of the world, as long as all users can achieve all regular content without time restrictions.

I wasn't saying any of my solutions were necessarily perfect either, I was more getting the brainstorming started. For instance, the challenge system should always provide rewards for everyone if possible.

Given the sheer wealth of content in MCC, I'm guessing you might be in the minority of folks who have gone through and gotten everything. Likewise, others likely don't need the content arriving in a regular stream to keep coming back; they just want all their Halo to be present to enjoy. I could definitely be wrong as you've already started showing me.

On that note, Halo shouldn't start working toward needing items and rewards to draw players back. People played old Halo games for a variety of reasons, but items weren't always the focus. People played Halo because it was top tier quality and it respected players. People played Halo for Halo, not unlocking things. Don't get me wrong, I want continued support for MCC. However, throwing items out as a way of luring players back is a stopgap idea for making Halo grow.

I really don't think we were opposed on too much of what we want for players, but more that we just have different ideas on how systems might impact them. Let's hope whatever system is chosen meets our desires to satisfy players for MCC's lifetime and honor Halo's legacy.

PS - Assuming they don't change this, Black Ops 4 seasons have given out items that you can no longer acquire once over. Terrifying!
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age. The days of playing games to have fun and record a decent K/D are gone.

Now you have to have a reward treadmill to keep the dopamine hits coming to keep people playing. The only way to do that is to reward players for their progression is with cosmetic unlocks, which in Halo take the form of armor cosmetics.

I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo, but when a progression system is a requirement what else can 343 do? If armor isn’t the reward, then what is?
Well written OP
Just unlock all the original games with the original intent of each title w ranking or credit system armor unlocks ect, but with with the 4k hdr paint job ,and a UI that acts solely as a central hub to pull it all together to track stats ect change in game settings ect

MCC is the living halo museum and this legacy should always be properly honored and respected as such.
Sometimes less is more, I worry that 343i over ambitious ideas will push and evolve the mcc away from the collection of the halo games and into another unrecognizable beast altogether
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age. The days of playing games to have fun and record a decent K/D are gone.

Now you have to have a reward treadmill to keep the dopamine hits coming to keep people playing. The only way to do that is to reward players for their progression is with cosmetic unlocks, which in Halo take the form of armor cosmetics.

I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo, but when a progression system is a requirement what else can 343 do? If armor isn’t the reward, then what is?
To be clear, nowhere in my post do I say I do not like progression systems.
The experience system should stay and is a progression system.
I'm also okay with some form of item progression system.
I'm also okay without some form of item progression system.
I personally like achievement unlocks.
I am NOT okay with a seasonal unlocks progression system, which is what my post argues against.

Whatever unlock system they use should match the feel of Halo and respect the legacy of the games, not be super trendy and designed to hook players in. It's this design mentality, designing to grab players and match today's trends, that led to Halo 4, and Halo 5 to a lesser extent, being less popular. It should be designed to make the player feel they are back at their Halo Home and that the player is respected.
Well written OP Just unlock all the original games with the original intent of each title w ranking or credit system armor unlocks ect, but with with the 4k hdr paint job ,and a UI that acts solely as a central hub to pull it all together to track stats ect change in game settings ect

MCC is the living halo museum and this legacy should always be properly honored and respected as such.
Sometimes less is more, I worry that 343i over ambitious ideas will push and evolve the mcc away from the collection of the halo games and into another unrecognizable beast altogether
Thank you; I wholeheartedly agree!

I sympathize with players that want some unlock system, and I think there's compromise there, but this hits the nail on the head for me.
To be clear, I’m not a fan of grindy unlock systems at all. And what 343 is proposing has seasons, but it’s not a seasonal system in the sense that none of the content ever gets locked out when the season expires. They just time-gate the release of unlockables and call each time-gate a season.

The issue all the big games have this now, and it’s what keeps the younger demos coming back for more since they love the dopamine hit of filling a bar and getting a reward.
The grand plan for MCC is clearly to help sell Game Pass subscribtions, and keeping players on the reward treadmill is the way to do that.

To your point, Halo isn’t well suited for this since it came about before grindy cosmetic progression systems became the norm. They’re going to shoehorn one in though.

The real question is what reward would be appropriate.
I cant even quote the OP because his post is so long. But pretty much he is wrong about everything. No one with less time will be locked out of content, because armor will not go away after the season ends.
I dont acctually think season unlocks are too bad. it gives you something to spend time on but they are also adding ranks so thats something else to play for as well but thats just my opinion
<p>I dont acctually think season unlocks are too bad. it gives you something to spend time on but they are also adding ranks so thats something else to play for as well but thats just my opinion </p>
i'm not against seasonal unlocks per se, bc it gives players an insent to come back to the game and maybe a good way to keep population on a higher level over a longer time.
that being said, i don't like the way it is in fortnite (the only example i'm a bit familiar with) with the battlepasses and if the season is over, you can't unlock the stuff anymore (or have to pay for it or whatever). additionaly the game is designed so you kind of have to logg in very often in the season to get the daily challenges, so you can reach the highest level in the battlepass.

but 343 mentionend, that even if a season is over, people can still go back and complete older seasons and unlocks.
we have to wait and see how it is, but time exlusive unlocks shouldn't be in the game

one thing i don't want to see is, that stuff which was available in the originals becomes a time exclusive, or a paid exclusive.
I couldn't agree more. Seasons seem like a bad angle to take with this. Personally, and maybe this is not a popular opinion, I would like to see a Reach style currency system put into place on top of all of the MCC. I want to use credits to unlock everything in the game. This includes Halo 3, 2A, and 4.

I don't think that the credit system is all that great. I don't want to see is in Infinite. It makes individual unlocks less desirable, and removes a lot of the prestige that came with something like Recon in 3. But like you were saying, this is supposed to be a celebration of Halo. I do not think that there should be challenge based cosmetic rewards in MCC (nameplates are fine). A Reach-like storefront is a good option. It would allow everyone to take their own path. If you don't care about certain things, you shouldn't be forced to spend an entire season unlocking things that you don't care about at all.

One of my biggest issues with Reach's original system is that there was no Recon equivalent. Something that you would see other people wearing and think, "Oh, shoot. This guy's good." Inclement Weather and the Haunted helmet were kind of that, but becasue it was really just a time commitment, and not a skill level thing, it wasn't nearly as impressive.

But at least with Reach's system you were able to aim for what you wanted. If you really wanted Inclement Weather you could skip out on everything else and get it sooner. If you really wanted the Mark VI set, you could aim for that (that's what I did). Everyone took their own path. That was the strength of Reach's system.

The seasons system has no strengths that I can think of. Everyone unlocks the same thing, at the same level, with no skill required, just time investment, and your progression just gets deleted after a certain amount of time. Ranks should be deleted occasionally. Progression should not. That seems like a horrible idea.
I cant even quote the OP because his post is so long. But pretty much he is wrong about everything. No one with less time will be locked out of content, because armor will not go away after the season ends.
I call that out in my assumptions. Just because quoting the OP is difficult, doesn't mean reading it should be.
That doesn't make my points about why the system is bad less correct.
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
I completely agree with this, and I do not want to see seasonal unlocks in MCC. I play other games that have seasonal unlocks, and it takes the fun out of the game; I’m not playing anymore, I’m grinding/working toward something (usually a gun) that ends up being disappointing anyway. It makes me feel disloyal to the game.
I am, I think, an average MCC community member. Ive been with Halo off an on since HCE, All in all, MCC is really the only game that has kept me a loyal Xbox user.
That being said, I’m so disappointed by the recent changes to MCC. A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.
It is unclear at this point if this new progression system and seasonal unlocks will affect JUST Reach when it’s added, or if it will affect the other games as well. My point is that I am so sick of the changes 343 has already made to the classic games, so I certainly don’t trust them keep this contained. I expect it will bleed into the other games over time. Which means new content for these games (and yes, I understand I am extrapolating here).
When MCC came out, we thought they were going to be reviving our old favorite games to play online in one place with one community. Congrats to 343 on accomplishing that—I can only think of a handful of games that have populations lasting longer than 10 years and continue to be just as fun and competitive as they were at release! But now 343 has gone a couple steps too far and is stumbling. I personally don’t want new content for 18 year old games. I want new games, even new games with these old engines would be awesome. And how revolutionary would a new Halo game be if it DIDN’T follow the same cookie-cutter pattern of seasonal unlocks that every other game released in the past 2 years has?! It would be so refreshing to play a new Halo game that stayed true to Halo’s legacy.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3