Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Why Season Unlocks are Bad for MCC: Explained

OP Jacoby04

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3
Jacoby04 wrote:
iiBloxorz wrote:
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
They are not changing anything about the game. They are adding a fun progression system to allow more players fresh content. No one is altering a game.
This is not true. Although the OP is talking about the “new content” they’ll be adding and not directly addressing the changes made to the games, 343 is in fact making changes to the game, which I address in my original comment on the post—here’s a recap:
“A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.”
Now because 343 has made these changes, I have lost faith in them to maintain the integrity of the classic Halos; so although the changes they’re suggesting in regard to seasonal content and progression may only affect cosmetics, I assume changes to the gameplay are not at all off the table.
Can you elaborate on what mechanics were "changed?" If its things like return time/touch return or planting time, those are as simple as changing an option in the game file. You can do that in Custom Games.
She literally explained it more than once in the comment you quoted, you can read about the changes in community updates, and that's not what this thread is about.
Season unlocks are 343 taking liberties with unlocks in Halo, just like they've taken liberties with gameplay changes, when people want classic experiences and the full suite of what was previously possible to achieve. This needs to stop on both fronts.
No, she didn't explain it, all she said that flag and bomb mechanics were changed from it's original counterpart. Just telling me to go look in the community updates without any evidence, or any idea of what I'm looking for, doesn't move your argument anywhere.

As far as progression goes, I don't like the idea as much as the next guy, and I think the unlocks need to be far less structured, but saying they are taking liberties in unlocks and gameplay is going a little far. They aren't locking things behind a paywall, or even discontinuing out of season items. They're only making it a linear unlock system that's a little more restricted than the Reach counterpart.

As far as gameplay goes, I still don't know what I'm responding in context of, but I'm 99% sure that any of the updates made recently (as described by Feminine Vixen) did NOT directly influence how the flag and bomb mechanics behaved. Feel free to correct me with a source, but the flag and bomb still both behave the same in game as they did before, and things such as damage modifiers, planting time, reset time, sudden death, and so forth, can all be edited in the game file, which does NOT have any effect on the game mechanically.
iiBloxorz wrote:
Jacoby04 wrote:
iiBloxorz wrote:
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
They are not changing anything about the game. They are adding a fun progression system to allow more players fresh content. No one is altering a game.
This is not true. Although the OP is talking about the “new content” they’ll be adding and not directly addressing the changes made to the games, 343 is in fact making changes to the game, which I address in my original comment on the post—here’s a recap:
“A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.”
Now because 343 has made these changes, I have lost faith in them to maintain the integrity of the classic Halos; so although the changes they’re suggesting in regard to seasonal content and progression may only affect cosmetics, I assume changes to the gameplay are not at all off the table.
Can you elaborate on what mechanics were "changed?" If its things like return time/touch return or planting time, those are as simple as changing an option in the game file. You can do that in Custom Games.
She literally explained it more than once in the comment you quoted, you can read about the changes in community updates, and that's not what this thread is about.
Season unlocks are 343 taking liberties with unlocks in Halo, just like they've taken liberties with gameplay changes, when people want classic experiences and the full suite of what was previously possible to achieve. This needs to stop on both fronts.
No, she didn't explain it, all she said that flag and bomb mechanics were changed from it's original counterpart. Just telling me to go look in the community updates without any evidence, or any idea of what I'm looking for, doesn't move your argument anywhere.

As far as progression goes, I don't like the idea as much as the next guy, and I think the unlocks need to be far less structured, but saying they are taking liberties in unlocks and gameplay is going a little far. They aren't locking things behind a paywall, or even discontinuing out of season items. They're only making it a linear unlock system that's a little more restricted than the Reach counterpart.

As far as gameplay goes, I still don't know what I'm responding in context of, but I'm 99% sure that any of the updates made recently (as described by Feminine Vixen) did NOT directly influence how the flag and bomb mechanics behaved. Feel free to correct me with a source, but the flag and bomb still both behave the same in game as they did before, and things such as damage modifiers, planting time, reset time, sudden death, and so forth, can all be edited in the game file, which does NOT have any effect on the game mechanically.
I'm not going to correct you with a source. I have played the game. I have read all the updates. I am not your circus monkey.

I'm glad to hear you're not behind the sunlocks system, but I urge you to take time to read through people's reasons for disliking it (my OP, other people's posts, other threads). I do acknowledge in my OP that all items can be unlocked, which doesn't make sunlocks the end of the world, but that also doesn't make them a good option.

A quick rundown of ideas on why it's bad:
  • MCC is a collection, which should unlock previously locked items to enjoy
  • A season system timegates unlocks (both in how players can acquire them and when they become available)
  • Limiting armor available limits abilities to make Halo videos
  • Sunlocks are a cheap-and-quick method for attempting to draw in players without adding real substance to the game
  • Sunlocks forego other, more enjoyable methods of unlocking items such as achievements
  • MCC is not a modern game nor is Halo a pop culture shooter anymore; the system implemented for unlocks should match Halo and it's legacy
This list is by no means exhaustive.
Jacoby04 wrote:
iiBloxorz wrote:
Jacoby04 wrote:
iiBloxorz wrote:
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
They are not changing anything about the game. They are adding a fun progression system to allow more players fresh content. No one is altering a game.
This is not true. Although the OP is talking about the “new content” they’ll be adding and not directly addressing the changes made to the games, 343 is in fact making changes to the game, which I address in my original comment on the post—here’s a recap:
“A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.”
Now because 343 has made these changes, I have lost faith in them to maintain the integrity of the classic Halos; so although the changes they’re suggesting in regard to seasonal content and progression may only affect cosmetics, I assume changes to the gameplay are not at all off the table.
Can you elaborate on what mechanics were "changed?" If its things like return time/touch return or planting time, those are as simple as changing an option in the game file. You can do that in Custom Games.
She literally explained it more than once in the comment you quoted, you can read about the changes in community updates, and that's not what this thread is about.
Season unlocks are 343 taking liberties with unlocks in Halo, just like they've taken liberties with gameplay changes, when people want classic experiences and the full suite of what was previously possible to achieve. This needs to stop on both fronts.
No, she didn't explain it, all she said that flag and bomb mechanics were changed from it's original counterpart. Just telling me to go look in the community updates without any evidence, or any idea of what I'm looking for, doesn't move your argument anywhere.

As far as progression goes, I don't like the idea as much as the next guy, and I think the unlocks need to be far less structured, but saying they are taking liberties in unlocks and gameplay is going a little far. They aren't locking things behind a paywall, or even discontinuing out of season items. They're only making it a linear unlock system that's a little more restricted than the Reach counterpart.

As far as gameplay goes, I still don't know what I'm responding in context of, but I'm 99% sure that any of the updates made recently (as described by Feminine Vixen) did NOT directly influence how the flag and bomb mechanics behaved. Feel free to correct me with a source, but the flag and bomb still both behave the same in game as they did before, and things such as damage modifiers, planting time, reset time, sudden death, and so forth, can all be edited in the game file, which does NOT have any effect on the game mechanically.
I'm not going to correct you with a source. I have played the game. I have read all the updates. I am not your circus monkey.

I'm glad to hear you're not behind the sunlocks system, but I urge you to take time to read through people's reasons for disliking it (my OP, other people's posts, other threads). I do acknowledge in my OP that all items can be unlocked, which doesn't make sunlocks the end of the world, but that also doesn't make them a good option.

A quick rundown of ideas on why it's bad:
  • MCC is a collection, which should unlock previously locked items to enjoy
  • A season system timegates unlocks (both in how players can acquire them and when they become available)
  • Limiting armor available limits abilities to make Halo videos
  • Sunlocks are a cheap-and-quick method for attempting to draw in players without adding real substance to the game
  • Sunlocks forego other, more enjoyable methods of unlocking items such as achievements
  • MCC is not a modern game nor is Halo a pop culture shooter anymore; the system implemented for unlocks should match Halo and it's legacy
This list is by no means exhaustive.
Putting the game update situation aside (never said you were my circus monkey or anything of the sort, I simply asked for a backup on your information), the entire point of implementing a ranking system and unlocks was to keep the population up, because as of now, there isn't any real objective other than to waste time and have fun. Each game gives you nothing besides meaningless stats. The rankup system and unlocks provides players with a reason to play the game, they can feel like they achieved something by ranking up or unlocking armor. This will both keep the population coming back and potentially attract new or returning players.

A good ranking system (NOT seasons) will also help with matchmaking, a la Halo 2 and 3. H2 and 3 had their own difficulties as does MCC, but games were far more often balanced in both Social and Ranked.

Unlocks do a lot more good than bad. It makes it so people don't walk into a game and think "well there's nothing to do, so what's the point of playing?" Your points are all pretty valid, but I think that the dedicated community won't be opposed to bring back armor unlocks, as it gives you something to show off.
iiBloxorz wrote:
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
They are not changing anything about the game. They are adding a fun progression system to allow more players fresh content. No one is altering a game.
This is not true. Although the OP is talking about the “new content” they’ll be adding and not directly addressing the changes made to the games, 343 is in fact making changes to the game, which I address in my original comment on the post—here’s a recap:
“A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.”
Now because 343 has made these changes, I have lost faith in them to maintain the integrity of the classic Halos; so although the changes they’re suggesting in regard to seasonal content and progression may only affect cosmetics, I assume changes to the gameplay are not at all off the table.
Can you elaborate on what mechanics were "changed?" If its things like return time/touch return or planting time, those are as simple as changing an option in the game file. You can do that in Custom Games.
Yes, of course you can, that has always been a customizable feature. I am thoroughly familiar with custom games. However, they have made these types of changes to the gametypes in the public matchmaking playlists, which are not customizable.
I cant even quote the OP because his post is so long. But pretty much he is wrong about everything. No one with less time will be locked out of content, because armor will not go away after the season ends.
I'm actually very ignorant on the way that 343i wants to implement unlocks in to MCC.

But if the seasonal unlocks aren't locked off after a season, how are they still seasonal unlocks?.

Wouldn't this actually just make them normal unlocks that are drip fed to the playerbase?

How does making the unlocks seasonal, benefit the overall experience for the player?

My only two presumptions are that either 1) It is being done to coincide with the releases of individual games (as the PC release is planned) and as content is completed, or 2) it's being marketed this way because of the more recent success of Fortnite battle pass style systems, and marketing the system is an attempt to sell the game to new players on that basis.
iiBloxorz wrote:
The problem is the community as a whole demands a progression system in this day and age... I agree that progression systems are dumb overall, and don’t fit Halo...
Ok so this just isn’t true (the first part). While many gaming communities DO thrive on progression systems, I can tell you that the MCC community is looking for this in MCC; nor do I think that, by adding this to MCC, new players will suddenly want to spend 60 bucks on an “old” game. The MCC community is on MCC to continue playing the classic halo games, and to play them as they were made 15 years ago. If they wanted something new, they would be playing Destiny, or Anthem, or Fortnite. There are PLENTY of new games that offer the progression system as they are discussing implementing it in MCC.
1) If 343 is looking to support this community and keep it alive, they should stop making gameplay-altering changes to 15 year old games.
2) If 343 is looking to grow the Halo community, they should release a new Halo game (and before some idiot comments here, yes I know they are working on it, I would love for them to stop touching MCC in the meantime).
3) If 343 is looking to jump on the progression system/season bandwagon in order to make more money or to appease “modern gamers” then, again, this needs to happen in a new game not a 15 year old game.
They are not changing anything about the game. They are adding a fun progression system to allow more players fresh content. No one is altering a game.
This is not true. Although the OP is talking about the “new content” they’ll be adding and not directly addressing the changes made to the games, 343 is in fact making changes to the game, which I address in my original comment on the post—here’s a recap:
“A while ago, my friends and I noticed the 343 changed the flag return mechanics in H1. H1 has been around for eighteen years, and now 343 has decided that it can be “improved”. Last time I played H2 with my crew, we found out that 343 has changed the bomb planting mechanic. 343 has also changed sudden death. They have changed the way H2 plays FIFTEEN YEARS after its birth. 343 has decided that, after fifteen years, its just not working.”
Now because 343 has made these changes, I have lost faith in them to maintain the integrity of the classic Halos; so although the changes they’re suggesting in regard to seasonal content and progression may only affect cosmetics, I assume changes to the gameplay are not at all off the table.
Can you elaborate on what mechanics were "changed?" If its things like return time/touch return or planting time, those are as simple as changing an option in the game file. You can do that in Custom Games.
Yes, of course you can, that has always been a customizable feature. I am thoroughly familiar with custom games. However, they have made these types of changes to the gametypes in the public matchmaking playlists, which are not customizable.
The thing is, if a feature is being abused (i.e. sudden death in H2 One Flag/One Bomb), the right thing to do is to switch off the option for public matchmaking to make games flow easier and cause less problems. There really isn't a proper set list of match settings that 343 has to use for Social games (that only ever applies to Hardcore modes). Bungie would've done the same thing if they found out the game's settings were being abused in such a way. Gametype patches are not new, and 343 is making things more fair by doing so.
Richnj wrote:
I cant even quote the OP because his post is so long. But pretty much he is wrong about everything. No one with less time will be locked out of content, because armor will not go away after the season ends.
I'm actually very ignorant on the way that 343i wants to implement unlocks in to MCC.

But if the seasonal unlocks aren't locked off after a season, how are they still seasonal unlocks?.

Wouldn't this actually just make them normal unlocks that are drip fed to the playerbase?

How does making the unlocks seasonal, benefit the overall experience for the player?

My only two presumptions are that either 1) It is being done to coincide with the releases of individual games (as the PC release is planned) and as content is completed, or 2) it's being marketed this way because of the more recent success of Fortnite battle pass style systems, and marketing the system is an attempt to sell the game to new players on that basis.
In the OP, I call out how the unlocks are still available forever, which is the most important thing. However, I point out that a lot of my reasons are still felt in full or in part despite this.
To answer one question you ask, season unlocks don't provide any sort of actual direct benefit to the player (other than having an unlock system exist). Any reason a person could think of, someone could come up with a better way I would argue; granted, this is opinion, not law.
They do, however, try to lure players back with the promise of future content (timegating content releases), require re-unlocking unlockables from past releases (which MCC didn't do), and introduce a system that very much doesn't match the legacy of Halo. These are a few reasons among many not to support this decision.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. ...
  5. 3