Forums / Support / Halo: The Master Chief Collection Support

O M F G . . . (WARNING:HISTRIONIC CONTENT)

OP NNMS MXMS

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2
Now that you're here, imagine you're the developer. You've just released a product that has more issues than Imelda Marcos has shoes. What helps you more in beginning to categorize and prioritize issues to fix: this or this?

When you buy something that doesn't work after purchase, you can be forgiven if you become upset. After all, you paid good money for something broken when you could have bought something else that wasn't. Unfortunately, the deal is sealed. Woe; anguish; regret. And now you are left with three choices: (a) Aneurysm; (b) Criticism; or, (c) Indifference.

Assuming you want your product to become un-broken, (b) is the choice I would recommend. If calmly listing the exact issue(s) you found without resorting to describing the paroxysms of emotional pain inflicted by the wantonly defective product is not immediately possible, then take a moment to yell at your kids, or punch your dog, or slap your cat. If you don't have those, a chemical method may do the trick. Regardless of the method used, it is better for all concerned if you slow your roll before composing your complaint.

Frustration is fair. Rage is reasonable. Sorrow is certain.

But if we want our complaints to be addressed as quickly as possible, our posts should refrain from O'Reilly-esque outbursts.

Just the facts, ma'am.

P.S.

In case you don't know, here's the breakdown of who worked on the MCC:

Multiplayer: Certain Affinity
Halo CE & Halo 2 port: Saber Interactive
Halo 3 and 4 port: Ruffian Studios
Updated cutscenes: Blur Studios
Xbox Live servers: Microsoft
User Interface / networking: 343i

With that many players in the mix, problems were inevitable. Whether we choose to express our dissatisfaction in a constructive or destructive manner is up to us.
Great constructive post. Saddens me to know most of the users on these forums won't read it.
I would dorect everyone to this post if I could... except it seems most would lack the capacity to understand exactly what constructive criticism is.
So I fully understand the some of the problems we are seeing are not completely 343's fault. The main problem is that a majority of this game seems untested.

When I am playing split screen with my wife and my brother joins our party and we try to find a match... We can't, OK so I want to back out and create a custom game. When I back out my brother gets dropped from the party. Unless the Matchmaking issue is somehow affecting this I believe this falls solely on 343's plate of "Why does this not work?"

Something as simple as backing out with your party should have been tested extensively and it just feels like it wasn't, at all.
Well, it's unlikely to reach a large audience . . . but hopefully a few more people put themselves in the developer's shoes before they type. I can just imagine what my reaction would be if I were the developer trying to gather info about what was wrong: read the posts that stick to the problem; ignore the ones that don't.
So I fully understand the some of the problems we are seeing are not completely 343's fault. The main problem is that a majority of this game seems untested.

When I am playing split screen with my wife and my brother joins our party and we try to find a match... We can't, OK so I want to back out and create a custom game. When I back out my brother gets dropped from the party. Unless the Matchmaking issue is somehow affecting this I believe this falls solely on 343's plate of "Why does this not work?"

Something as simple as backing out with your party should have been tested extensively and it just feels like it wasn't, at all.
Absolutely.

I'm not saying that these things aren't 343i's fault. Even if the problem originated with a subcontractor, 343i is the primary studio responsible for the product and deserves to be the target of criticism. The key is to keep the criticism short, accurate, and to the point (along with first searching to see if a similar topic already exists . . . though that ship has long since sailed).

The lowly intern assigned to sort through all the crap on the forums really doesn't care that you put your fist through your TV. He's not there to document collateral damage; he's there to organize a list of fixable issues.
The deal is not sealed. Their terms of service don't mean a thing if they contradict the laws of your country.

If you're European or Australian, broken game is defibately grounds for a refund.
Dr McKay91 wrote:
The deal is not sealed. Their terms of service don't mean a thing if they contradict the laws of your country.

If you're European or Australian, broken game is defibately grounds for a refund.
Which also does not require filling the screen with hate . . . but makes a powerful statement on your degree of satisfaction without needing to type a word.
I wish I had worded my post against the complaining this way a few days ago. Unfortunately, I had just had a tube yanked out of my chest so I wasn't exactly in the best of moods and came off rather rude and chaos ensued. Anyways, I agree entirely.
Great post, the only thing I would add would be to add your complaints to existing threads (unless your complaint is unique) instead of starting a new one.
343 are more likely to take notice of threads with 100's of users all having the same problem than 100's of individual threads with often poorly-worded or ambiguous titles.

I understand that everyone wants to be "that guy" that starts the thread and gets others to rally around them but maybe you should be happy to get the message out there regardless of who was "first".
NNMS MXMS wrote:
...

In case you don't know, here's the breakdown of who worked on the MCC:

Multiplayer: Certain Affinity
Halo CE & Halo 2 port: Saber Interactive
Halo 3 and 4 port: Ruffian Studios
Updated cutscenes: Blur Studios
Xbox Live servers: Microsoft
User Interface / networking: 343i

With that many players in the mix, problems were inevitable. Whether we choose to express our dissatisfaction in a constructive or destructive manner is up to us.

It's my understanding that Certain Affinity worked on the Halo 2 anniversary maps only

Edit: Nevermind, found out you were right
One of the biggest issues when stating exactly what people are experience, is where do we even start? It's one thing to have small things not work correctly which can cause some frustration, but I can't honestly think of one thing that this game does well at this point. I guess the Anniversary maps and cutscenes are pretty, when they actually work. Matchmaking is jacked to the point it's difficult to describe exactly what is wrong. Custom games are a mess because you can't even party up correctly. Campaign is a mess because it doesn't save, locks up and freezes. Added content isn't accessible. In all honesty, the people spewing absolute hate have every right to do so. Many of us bought an Xbone specifically for this collection, and it's a disaster. I, myself, and a buddy of mine took vacation to play this game this week. We don't get to see each other very often at all, and we were using this as a way of hanging out and having some beers while playing Halo like we used to in college. So with vacation days, Xbone system, and game, this week has cost me over $1,400. Do I have a right to be completely pissed about this? Or should I be thankful that 343 is working around the clock trying to fix the problems? I think I have every right to be pissed, because they shipped a game that, quite frankly, shouldn't have been released. Also, I seriously get extremely sick and tired of hearing people say that I should have known better than to take vacation on a release because there are always problems. I ask, why do we as a community just accept this? I can't think of any other retail setting that this would be even remotely acceptable, so why is it acceptable here? I'm not saying complete refunds are the way to go, but there should be some sort of compensation for everyone that pre-downloaded, pre-ordered, and bought this game on launch day. I have no idea what it should be, but something should be done, besides an oops, our bad.
I am a tester and I work for a company (not game testing), anyway ive been in the field for 3-4 years now. I have never seen such a bad launch from anyone in my history. These 'bugs' are the simple things a Alpha test or Beta test people would noticed e.g. playlist descriptions being wrong or the fact that its 5v5 instead of 4v4 (which it states the playlist is 4v4). The problem is this game was rushed and they didnt care about the quality upon launch as there was in fact no way this could have slipped by if there were real testing done to the product.

I think its funny how they claim that "big real-estate to work with" when if you break it down its just maps and game modes via online, its all on one engine, but that doesnt take away from the fact that ive played 7 games in 3 days, cant connect to friends, no friendslist shown, unable to search when searching, playlists letting 10 players in instead of the max (8) etc.

Just poor quality overall and I am disappoint as someone who is trying to be in game development but also as someone who is a software test engineer for a living.
Ultimately this is entirely 343's fault. They produced the product. Sub contractors may have helped but 343's name is on the package.
ThreeDwow wrote:
I am a tester and I work for a company (not game testing), anyway ive been in the field for 3-4 years now. I have never seen such a bad launch from anyone in my history. These 'bugs' are the simple things a Alpha test or Beta test people would noticed e.g. playlist descriptions being wrong or the fact that its 5v5 instead of 4v4 (which it states the playlist is 4v4). The problem is this game was rushed and they didnt care about the quality upon launch as there was in fact no way this could have slipped by if there were real testing done to the product.

I think its funny how they claim that "big real-estate to work with" when if you break it down its just maps and game modes via online, its all on one engine, but that doesnt take away from the fact that ive played 7 games in 3 days, cant connect to friends, no friendslist shown, unable to search when searching, playlists letting 10 players in instead of the max (8) etc.

Just poor quality overall and I am disappoint as someone who is trying to be in game development but also as someone who is a software test engineer for a living.
Thank you! As people have said, people need to expect bugs on releases, and yes I do expect to have bugs, but this game isn't even functional in it's current state. It absolutely blows my mind that this could possibly happen in 2014, when it was functional in 2004. Yes, there were a few bugs with Halo 2 upon release, far less in Halo 3, but this can't even be classified as bugs.
Ultimately this is entirely 343's fault. They produced the product. Sub contractors may have helped but 343's name is on the package.
Ultimately, any issues with a game are entirely the production studio's fault. Even if they subcontract, they are responsible for the oversight and integration. I am by no means attempting to say that 343i does not deserve the finger pointed right at them. When it comes to holding subcontractors responsible, that's their responsiblity . . . not ours.

The point of showing the contractors was to note that MCC is a much different case than a primary title (like H5), which means we need to be as clear as possible when describing issues because 343i is likely unable to solve them all without heavily involving the subcontractors who may not be entirely aware of the method by which their work was integrated by 343i. The less clear we are, the more translation (and, hence, time) needs to be done by 343i before they can get the contractors working on their areas of responsibility.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Well, it's unlikely to reach a large audience . . . but hopefully a few more people put themselves in the developer's shoes before they type. I can just imagine what my reaction would be if I were the developer trying to gather info about what was wrong: read the posts that stick to the problem; ignore the ones that don't.
Firstly, I loved your OP. Very well put together and I hope we can keep some people's eyes on it and that they can comprehend what your are so cleverly saying.

However, in regards to the developer's shoes and their reaction to trying to gather info about what is wrong...

They should not need to gather information from posts that stick to the problem. As a matter of fact, a huge bug list is already stickied documenting as many known issues as possible.

If they really want to cut through the cesspool that is this forum lately, they can try an old fashioned technique. Play the game! Which is what they said they did so much of in development. I don't know what their chemical method of choice was during this process, but clearly their idea of quality control and mine don't see eye to eye.
ThreeDwow wrote:
I am a tester and I work for a company (not game testing), anyway ive been in the field for 3-4 years now. I have never seen such a bad launch from anyone in my history. These 'bugs' are the simple things a Alpha test or Beta test people would noticed
I'm an engineer for a medical device company. My job specializes in validation / qualification of processes, which includes functional validation of software. I concur in your assessment that the MCC looks like amateur hour - not because of bugs per se, but because of the ease with which proper testing would have identified many of them prior to launch (some matchmaking interfaces excluded; worldwide networking is often impossible to simulate in a limited fashion . . . though there are some whoppers there, too, that I would have to believe there would be some way of simulating ahead of time).

However, having been involved in such testing and drafting feedback in a professional environment, I also am aware that the most efficient way to resolve issues (amateur hour or not) is to keep emotion out of it and stick to what happened. The marketing director who pounds the table and screams himself purple because he can't ship sample kits to hospitals for another week serves only to distract the people trying to fix the software.
If they really want to cut through the cesspool that is this forum lately, they can try an old fashioned technique. Play the game!
Play the game. Try to break the game. Then let their kids play the game and tell them to try to break it. Then let their neighbor's dog try to play the game.

The problem with a lot of commercial software testing is that it is done by people who already know "how it's supposed to work". When it comes to games, "how it's supposed to work" also includes styles of play. Where I work, we sometimes bring in people who have absolutely no idea what a device is even supposed to do and tell them to figure out how to use it. IT types hate it and always give the "well, that's not how we designed it to work" . . . which is exactly why they should not be the ones testing it. The users don't give a crap what IT designed it to do. All they care about is what they can get it to do.

I'm sure 343i tested lots of things . . . but they probably tested those things with the background knowledge of how it was designed or how it was "supposed" to work. And that simply won't do for software as complicated and widely distributed as the MCC.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
ThreeDwow wrote:
I am a tester and I work for a company (not game testing), anyway ive been in the field for 3-4 years now. I have never seen such a bad launch from anyone in my history. These 'bugs' are the simple things a Alpha test or Beta test people would noticed

I'm an engineer for a medical device company. My job specializes in validation / qualification of processes, which includes functional validation of software. I concur in your assessment that the MCC looks like amateur hour - not because of bugs per se, but because of the ease with which proper testing would have identified many of them prior to launch (some matchmaking interfaces excluded; worldwide networking is often impossible to simulate in a limited fashion . . . though there are some whoppers there, too, that I would have to believe there would be some way of simulating ahead of time).
I used to do BvT's and Smoke tests w/regression windows at my previous job (I test phones). I used the bugs as a means of them not doing testing, yes there are issues that would result from not being able to test IRL server issues but at this point there have been so many issues with recent launches on MS games. The thing I see here is if there were testing done these issues wouldnt be as prominent as they are now.

Woohoo for another tester here ;)
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. 2