Forums / Support / Halo: The Master Chief Collection

[Locked] Transcript of my chat with xbox live support

OP LukyJayz

Zyra: Thank you for contacting Xbox Chat Support! My name is Zyra. I appreciate your patience in waiting to speak with us today. Please give me a minute while I review the details you have provided.
jacob: Hello zyra, I didn't have enough room to write in all the details of this issue so i will elaborate now
jacob: I contacted your support services earlier today about getting a refund for Halo: The master chief collection, as it is a broken game and simply unplayable, the person who i was talking to, "lorde" told me to go to halowaypoint and talk to 343i there
Zyra: Hi there Jacob! I hope you are doing fine. I understand. Thank you for trusting me with your concern. I am sorry about this one. Don't worry, I will do my best to assist you with your concern and find a resolution right away.
jacob: I went to the website to their support forums, and as did many other people, the community engineer of the forums posted a month ago that many people have been told to go to halowaypoint to speak to 343i about a refund, and nobody gets any answers
Zyra: May I have your Gamer tag and Xbox Live email to make sure that I am working on the right account?
jacob: Sure thing, my Gamertag is "Lukyjayz" and my email account is Jacobleitch@outlook.com
jacob: The response from the community engineer is right here "AS is per usual, Xbox Support have fobbed you off and told you to come here just to get rid of you. There is no 343 Customer support and Coming here to request contact will do nothing as this is a community forum made up of mostly regular player like you and me. 343 will not make contact with you on here, neither do they have access to any of your personal XBL account info. Just to state again, Xbox Support told you to come here so they didn't have to deal with you themselves. They do that a lot to many people (myself included)."
Zyra: I'm sorry to hear that you have been having an issue with Halo: Master Chief Collection. The game developer is actually well aware of this, Xbox and the game developer are already working hand in hand to get that fixed as soon as possible.
jacob: Well i know they are working very hard to fix the problem, but my issue is I paid money for something that doesn't work, and I tried to get a refund twice now, the first time i was convinced to wait by another microsoft support employee, and the previous time i was redirected to a forum that has the forum engineers stating that you guys have been redirecting everyone there with no answers to be found
jacob: here is another post further stating that 343i can't refund games, while xbox live support can "Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there isn't any way to get a refund via the forums. If you bought a physical copy, you'll have to return it to the store you purchased ffrom as your contact is with them. If you bought digital, Xbox Live Support are the folk you need to contact. 343 don't have access to you accounts to refund any costs."
Zyra: I fully understand you, Jacob and I am with you on this one. I am a gamer myself and I personally purchased the same game. Just like you guys, I am not exempted and we're still waiting for the game developer's updates about the patches that will completely fix the Halo: MCC issues. I just hope you understand that this is something that we do not have control over as this has something to do with the game, not with the console. If this is regarding the issue within the download of the game, then we can check for a refund. But since this is within the in-game issues. We might need to wait for the updates to fix it. One thing I am sure of though is that 343 is doing their best to ensure that everything gets taken care of as soon as possible. All we're asking from you is a little more patience while Xbox and Halo work on this to make sure that you guys enjoy the game in the long run.
jacob: Well I have waited 3 months and I have no way to contact 343i for a refund, I was told an hour earlier that if I wanted a refund to go to their website (halowaypoint.com) by xbox live support, and now you just said that I need to wait for an update to fix it. 3 months sitting on a broken game is a very long time, and its rather frustrating that the main reason I bought my xbox one was to play Halo, and it doesn't even work.
Zyra: I understand you on this one. I would love to provide a refund to get this issue sorted out however I do not have any controls over it. When it comes for game's update or issues within the in-game, it would be great if you can get in-touch with 343 but when it comes to refund purchased via Xbox store, this is handled by the Xbox Support. But in your case, since this is not an issue with the Xbox console, we are unable to process a refund as we are advised to wait for the game updates and patches that will fix the Halo issue.
jacob: So I am to use a broken game sold through the xbox store in what way, Zyra? It is through the company you work at that I acquired this game which I can not use. If I bought a physical copy of this game it would be as easy as going in and saying "this doesn't work, give me my money back" and a store would honour that, but with the incentive to buy things digitally it seems that if I have a broken game I am screwed out of my money
Zyra: I understand your point. I am sure that if in any case there still an issue with the game itself, the game developer which is 343 industries will release an update to resolve if any bugs or glitches.
jacob: That simply doesn't work for me, I have been sold a broken game, and I was dumb enough to buy this game digitally so I can't walk into a store to return it. What if every game launched turns out like this? What incentive do I have for buying games from the microsoft store if I don't have a guarantee that my money will get me a working product?
Zyra: I do apologize for any inconvenience that this might have caused you, however, we cannot grant a refund for this game.
Zyra: Because for any in-game issues like multiplayer gaming are being handled by the game developers.
jacob: It's not just the multiplayer gaming though, many times this game simply crashes to the dashboard, I've tried resetting my xbox (a hard reset, unplugging all accessories) and after about 45 minutes of play the game will crash on me, getting rid of any progress i've put into a level.
Zyra: Yes, even if we tried all the troubleshooting steps to fix this issue, it will not work as this is within the game and not with the console or the account. This is why we need to wait for the game developer's update to get this all straightened out so that we can enjoy the game that we have paid for. If only I can process a refund, that would be great and I will do it for you in a heartbeat but then again, we are unable to as we need for the updates to completely fix the issue.
Zyra: No worries, I will make sure to document this in your account so that we can raise this up to our Xbox management. If ever there will be further announcements regarding with the refund or any updates, we will notify you right away through your email or Xbox home dashboard.
jacob: Alright, well thanks for speaking with me, even though I don't agree with the outcome, I don't hold you accountable for the policies of Microsoft or 343i
jacob: Have a good evening

They told me to come here, I'm here, and I feel screwed. This is a terrible way to run a business. Microsoft screwed me and so did 343i. All I want is my money back
How did you pay? Credit card? Call the CC company and file a dispute.
Sadly I used my xbox live money built into my account, and it seems 343i doesn't care about us.
LukyJayz wrote:
Sadly I used my xbox live money built into my account, and it seems 343i doesn't care about us.
Its not that 343 doesn't care at all, its because they simply have no say in any purchases made via the Xbox Live marketplace. People don't seem to understand that 343 is just the game developer, they produce the content for Microsoft to sell on the XBL Marketplace or in retail stores. They get paid the same amount of money regardless of whether the game sells 1 million copies or 1 copy. Your purchase contract is with the XBL Marketplace and not 343. They wont have seen a penny of the money you spent to buy the game, that money will have gone to the XBL marketplace/Microsoft.

Just because 343 is a subsidiary development team of Microsoft doesn't mean that they get all the money gamers spend on Halo games.
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Now the gate has been unlatched, headstones pushed aside. Corpses shift and offer room, a fate you must abide.
LukyJayz wrote:
Sadly I used my xbox live money built into my account, and it seems 343i doesn't care about us.


Its not that 343 doesn't care at all, its because they simply have no say in any purchases made via the Xbox Live marketplace. People don't seem to understand that 343 is just the game developer, they produce the content for Microsoft to sell on the XBL Marketplace or in retail stores. They get paid the same amount of money regardless of whether the game sells 1 million copies or 1 copy. Your purchase contract is with the XBL Marketplace and not 343. They wont have seen a penny of the money you spent to buy the game, that money will have gone to the XBL marketplace/Microsoft.

Just because 343 is a subsidiary development team of Microsoft doesn't mean that they get all the money gamers spend on Halo games.
Halo MCC launched in an unacceptable state. I'd say it's the most broken AAA game launch in at least the last five years. Seeing as Microsoft owns 343I I think the frustration is that you guys should be working together to get people a refund that want it. Instead we have MS telling us to talk to 343i and we have you guys telling us to talk to MS. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY HERE. People spent $60 hard earned dollars on something that just doesn't work. I think we can all agree that 3 months is PLENTY of time to wait for the game to be fixed. How many months should we wait? How many months after we payed for a working product should we have to wait to actually get that working product? This whole thing is unacceptable and you guys should be doing everything you can to make it right. Maybe setup a refund program with MS. You can't fix the game .... maybe you can get that put together. Instead both sides seem more interested in passing the buck and playing the name game. You're both at fault and you both need to work together to make it right.

Just an my two cents...
LukyJayz wrote:
Sadly I used my xbox live money built into my account, and it seems 343i doesn't care about us.


Its not that 343 doesn't care at all, its because they simply have no say in any purchases made via the Xbox Live marketplace. People don't seem to understand that 343 is just the game developer, they produce the content for Microsoft to sell on the XBL Marketplace or in retail stores. They get paid the same amount of money regardless of whether the game sells 1 million copies or 1 copy. Your purchase contract is with the XBL Marketplace and not 343. They wont have seen a penny of the money you spent to buy the game, that money will have gone to the XBL marketplace/Microsoft.

Just because 343 is a subsidiary development team of Microsoft doesn't mean that they get all the money gamers spend on Halo games.

Halo MCC launched in an unacceptable state. I'd say it's the most broken AAA game launch in at least the last five years. Seeing as Microsoft owns 343I I think the frustration is that you guys should be working together to get people a refund that want it. Instead we have MS telling us to talk to 343i and we have you guys telling us to talk to MS. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY HERE. People spent $60 hard earned dollars on something that just doesn't work. I think we can all agree that 3 months is PLENTY of time to wait for the game to be fixed. How many months should we wait? How many months after we payed for a working product should we have to wait to actually get that working product? This whole thing is unacceptable and you guys should be doing everything you can to make it right. Maybe setup a refund program with MS. You can't fix the game .... maybe you can get that put together. Instead both sides seem more interested in passing the buck and playing the name game. You're both at fault and you both need to work together to make it right.

Just an my two cents...
When you say "you guys" who exactly do you mean? I am in no way employed by Microsoft or 343. I'm just a forum volunteer and a regular person just like you. I don't get paid for being on here, I got the rank of Community Engineer because I help out a lot in the forums, mostly in the support section. Again I don't work for 343 and have no say in any decisions they make.

Here is a post I made on another thread as to why it is Microsoft/Xbox Support that people need to speak to:
Quote:
Despite what Xbox Support are telling people, coming here to a community based forum is NOT going to get you a refund in any way. 343 Industries very rarely visit these forums, do not have any access to your personal information on your Xbox Live account and can't issue a refund in any way. The only people who can do this are Xbox Support, regardless of where they tell you to go they are ultimately the ones who have the power to do so. My only advice is to call again and if they try saying the same thing again, repeat what I have stated here and ask to speak to someone who deals with customer complaints or ask if there is a customer resolutions department, as these are the ones who are authorised to give out refunds etc.

From personal experience, I never received my free 1 month of gold that was part of the compensation. I went onto the Xbox Support online chat where I was told that if I hadn't already received my free 1 month of gold subscription then I wasn't eligible. It wasn't until I provided proof via the announcement from Bonnie Ross, time stamped achievements I had unlocked and records of games played within the time frame on my main account that they agreed with me that I did qualify. They also tried to tell me I had to come to Halo Waypoint's forums to contact 343 regarding this matter. It wasn't until I told them that I was a Community Engineer here on the site and that I knew all too well that what they told me was false that they made the decision there and then to email me the code for 1 month of XBL I was entitled to.

So in my personal opinion, don't listen to what Xbox Support tell you because it may well turn out to be a lie, its just lucky that I have this role on the forums and I knew they weren't telling the truth.
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Now the gate has been unlatched, headstones pushed aside. Corpses shift and offer room, a fate you must abide.
Its been 3 months, 142 multiplayer games and over 1 day and 9 hours of playtime and NOW you are asking for a refund???

Thats like ordering a steak dinner, eating every bite of it, then sending the empty plate back to the kitchen saying it wasn't cooked right and refusing to pay!
Apoll0 wrote:
Its been 3 months, 142 multiplayer games and over 1 day and 9 hours of playtime and NOW you are asking for a refund???

Thats like ordering a steak dinner, eating every bite of it, then sending the empty plate back to the kitchen saying it wasn't cooked right and refusing to pay!
No, it's like sitting down in a fancy steak restaurant, ordering AND PAYING for a filet, and getting a turd. You then ask the waiter to refund you, but the waiter and manager come out and assure you that if you are patient, you'll receive your steak. So you wait at your table, and every so often the waiter brings a new plate over. Each time, the plate has something different on it, but the meal is never fully edible. Having waited through this for hours, you ask the waiter for a refund. The waiter says you'll have to ask the cook via a web site. You check the site, and find other customers say you have to ask the waiter. Talking to another waiter, you are told you'll have to wait for the cook to fix the food, end of story.

To your 'point' dp Apollo qb - yeah, some people probably could have chosen to try to get a refund earlier. Don't listen to the "waiter and manager", and just bail on the whole situation. Perhaps that would have worked. But, 343 promised to 'make it right'. It's well within our right to say that they have not done so. If you want to push back and say we should have asked for the refund earlier, I would counter your argument by saying we still ARE asking for an early refund because 343 still hasn't made it right.
Apoll0 wrote:
Its been 3 months, 142 multiplayer games and over 1 day and 9 hours of playtime and NOW you are asking for a refund???

Thats like ordering a steak dinner, eating every bite of it, then sending the empty plate back to the kitchen saying it wasn't cooked right and refusing to pay!

No, it's like sitting down in a fancy steak restaurant, ordering AND PAYING for a filet, and getting a turd. You then ask the waiter to refund you, but the waiter and manager come out and assure you that if you are patient, you'll receive your steak. So you wait at your table, and every so often the waiter brings a new plate over. Each time, the plate has something different on it, but the meal is never fully edible. Having waited through this for hours, you ask the waiter for a refund. The waiter says you'll have to ask the cook via a web site. You check the site, and find other customers say you have to ask the waiter. Talking to another waiter, you are told you'll have to wait for the cook to fix the food, end of story.

To your 'point' dp Apollo qb - yeah, some people probably could have chosen to try to get a refund earlier. Don't listen to the "waiter and manager", and just bail on the whole situation. Perhaps that would have worked. But, 343 promised to 'make it right'. It's well within our right to say that they have not done so. If you want to push back and say we should have asked for the refund earlier, I would counter your argument by saying we still ARE asking for an early refund because 343 still hasn't made it right.
Ok, i'll bite.

The problem with that analogy is that if you are more than a couple of courses into that meal, and you still sit and wait without making the decision to get the refund and walk out, its YOUR fault that you waited and suffered for that long. Its similar to the (overused) "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" analogy.

He isn't asking for a refund after a few hours of playtime and a couple of failed updates. He is asking after 33 hours of playtime and many updates that have actually made the product work much better. "much better" is relative of course, but it doesn't invalidate my point.
Apoll0 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
Its been 3 months, 142 multiplayer games and over 1 day and 9 hours of playtime and NOW you are asking for a refund???

Thats like ordering a steak dinner, eating every bite of it, then sending the empty plate back to the kitchen saying it wasn't cooked right and refusing to pay!


No, it's like sitting down in a fancy steak restaurant, ordering AND PAYING for a filet, and getting a turd. You then ask the waiter to refund you, but the waiter and manager come out and assure you that if you are patient, you'll receive your steak. So you wait at your table, and every so often the waiter brings a new plate over. Each time, the plate has something different on it, but the meal is never fully edible. Having waited through this for hours, you ask the waiter for a refund. The waiter says you'll have to ask the cook via a web site. You check the site, and find other customers say you have to ask the waiter. Talking to another waiter, you are told you'll have to wait for the cook to fix the food, end of story.

To your 'point' dp Apollo qb - yeah, some people probably could have chosen to try to get a refund earlier. Don't listen to the "waiter and manager", and just bail on the whole situation. Perhaps that would have worked. But, 343 promised to 'make it right'. It's well within our right to say that they have not done so. If you want to push back and say we should have asked for the refund earlier, I would counter your argument by saying we still ARE asking for an early refund because 343 still hasn't made it right.

Ok, i'll bite.

The problem with that analogy is that if you are more than a couple of courses into that meal, and you still sit and wait without making the decision to get the refund and walk out, its YOUR fault that you waited and suffered for that long. Its similar to the (overused) "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" analogy.

He isn't asking for a refund after a few hours of playtime and a couple of failed updates. He is asking after 33 hours of playtime and many updates that have actually made the product work much better. "much better" is relative of course, but it doesn't invalidate my point.
I want steak.
Apoll0 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
Its been 3 months, 142 multiplayer games and over 1 day and 9 hours of playtime and NOW you are asking for a refund???

Thats like ordering a steak dinner, eating every bite of it, then sending the empty plate back to the kitchen saying it wasn't cooked right and refusing to pay!


No, it's like sitting down in a fancy steak restaurant, ordering AND PAYING for a filet, and getting a turd. You then ask the waiter to refund you, but the waiter and manager come out and assure you that if you are patient, you'll receive your steak. So you wait at your table, and every so often the waiter brings a new plate over. Each time, the plate has something different on it, but the meal is never fully edible. Having waited through this for hours, you ask the waiter for a refund. The waiter says you'll have to ask the cook via a web site. You check the site, and find other customers say you have to ask the waiter. Talking to another waiter, you are told you'll have to wait for the cook to fix the food, end of story.

To your 'point' dp Apollo qb - yeah, some people probably could have chosen to try to get a refund earlier. Don't listen to the "waiter and manager", and just bail on the whole situation. Perhaps that would have worked. But, 343 promised to 'make it right'. It's well within our right to say that they have not done so. If you want to push back and say we should have asked for the refund earlier, I would counter your argument by saying we still ARE asking for an early refund because 343 still hasn't made it right.

Ok, i'll bite.

The problem with that analogy is that if you are more than a couple of courses into that meal, and you still sit and wait without making the decision to get the refund and walk out, its YOUR fault that you waited and suffered for that long. Its similar to the (overused) "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" analogy.

He isn't asking for a refund after a few hours of playtime and a couple of failed updates. He is asking after 33 hours of playtime and many updates that have actually made the product work much better. "much better" is relative of course, but it doesn't invalidate my point.

The question becomes "When is a realistic expectation breached?". Your argument assumes there's an obvious point at which one should be able to determine that the game is never going to live up to promises. Looking back at the original launch, what's a reasonable expectation for the game to be fixed to a point where there are only minor bugs (at worst)? 3 weeks of patches? 4? 6? What's a real-world estimate, and are you willing to wait for that based on publisher promises?

Additionally, let's talk about your argument of 'enjoyment value' against paid money. It looks like you are trying to say it is unacceptable to ask for a refund once you've gotten past a certain level of recorded use. In many cases, I could see your point. You've purchased an entertainment consumable, and have potentially gotten some measure of entertainment out of it. However, in this case, the publisher of this video game has actually stated a promise of quality to the consumers. In this instance, it doesn't matter how many hours you have logged to the game if it doesn't meet the quality promised.
Quote:
While our team works on continual improvements and towards solutions, my commitment to you is that we will take care of all owners of Halo: The Master Chief Collection. Our primary and continued focus is first on fixing the issues at hand. Once we’ve done that, we will detail how we will make this right with our fans.
Personally, my friends and I were given the expectation that we could purchase this game and play multiplayer matches of big-team-battle and several other playlists among Halo 1-4. Most of us pre-ordered the game, so we've had it from day 1. We weekly sign in (when there have been patches) and try to play together. Usually, we end up going through the same steps (de-powering, messing with internet settings, etc...), get maybe a single match in, and then give up in frustration. That's been our experience, and it is no where near the point of quality we've been promised by 343 after the game's release. Is the solution to these issues actually coming? Who can say. But for now, I don't see the playtime as an issue after Bonnie basically asked us to wait.
You also realize a reason Xbox Support is not refunding is because they can't...

6.9. Refund policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or by a particular Service offer, all purchases are final and non-refundable.

that is part of the Terms of Use which ALL users agree to when they sign up for Xbox LIVE Services...

#justsayin

Crying about a "broken game" or saying they shouldn't release a "broken game" or any of that sort STLL does not warrant a refund just because YOU the consumer dislike how the situation is handled. Policy is Policy. Agreed is Agreed which ALL of us agreed to when we signed up for the service. Do I think it is wrong, yes, do I think it should be altered? yes. Will it? No. Stop crying about the same thing already and suck it up. I paid my "hard earned money" for this game too. Geez can you please just stop.
You also realize a reason Xbox Support is not refunding is because they can't...

6.9. Refund policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or by a particular Service offer, all purchases are final and non-refundable.

that is part of the Terms of Use which ALL users agree to when they sign up for Xbox LIVE Services...

#justsayin

Crying about a "broken game" or saying they shouldn't release a "broken game" or any of that sort STLL does not warrant a refund just because YOU the consumer dislike how the situation is handled. Policy is Policy. Agreed is Agreed which ALL of us agreed to when we signed up for the service. Do I think it is wrong, yes, do I think it should be altered? yes. Will it? No. Stop crying about the same thing already and suck it up. I paid my "hard earned money" for this game too. Geez can you please just stop.
Bravo!

Nobody reads the EULAs when they get software, but ignorance is no excuse. Just because you don't read it, doesn't mean it doesn't apply. The refunds that people were getting shortly after the game came out were against microsoft's own policy. Its been long enough now that the game isn't even under warranty against physical defects anymore (ie. a physically broken disk, not broken code). Asking for a refund at this point is ludicrous.
I am also going through the same process. Its like trying to corral cats, honestly.
You need to talk with XBOX Support, not the volunteers.

They can give refunds as they gave me one shortly after release. They are in breach of Consumer Protection Act in the UK so would loose in a court.

Not only is the game broken, now slightly better than at release but we don't have dedicated servers either and that was a big part of the marketing. Raise a small cliam in the UK courts and also add any expenses that you have, time spent chasing refunds etc all costs time, Time = Money. Also add 8% interest for all the time they have had your money.

It cost £15 to raise the case but you will be awarded costs too. I would suspect 343i / MS will payup without court as if they loose in court they will have to pay back everyone.

And that takes care of

6.9. Refund policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or by a particular Service offer, all purchases are final and non-refundable.
They are in breach of Consumer Protection Act in the UK so would loose in a court.
i don't think the Consumer Protection Act is what you're after. Were you perhaps thinking of the recently introduced Consumer Rights Bill? Even if OP was to pursue action based on that, it's a lot of time and expense to spend on something that the developers are clearly trying to fix. I really wouldn't see the case getting anywhere. Dedicated servers do exist as well
You need to talk with XBOX Support, not the volunteers.

They can give refunds as they gave me one shortly after release. They are in breach of Consumer Protection Act in the UK so would loose in a court.

Not only is the game broken, now slightly better than at release but we don't have dedicated servers either and that was a big part of the marketing. Raise a small cliam in the UK courts and also add any expenses that you have, time spent chasing refunds etc all costs time, Time = Money. Also add 8% interest for all the time they have had your money.

It cost £15 to raise the case but you will be awarded costs too. I would suspect 343i / MS will payup without court as if they loose in court they will have to pay back everyone.

And that takes care of

6.9. Refund policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or by a particular Service offer, all purchases are final and non-refundable.
That case wouldn't exactly go anywhere...and that doesn't exactly take care of the 6.9 refund policy, at least not to my understanding?

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