Forums / Community / Halo Universe

About that Fall of Reach Animated Series trailer

OP JJAB91

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thr33E3 wrote:
The Elites and Grunts with the H4 design shouldn't be there either.
They weren't a part of the Covenant at this time.
Says who? The folks on Hesduros tell Jul that they sent their sons to fight for the Covenant and made no indication that they just started doing so.
thr33E3 wrote:
The Elites and Grunts with the H4 design shouldn't be there either.
They weren't a part of the Covenant at this time.
Actually the Hesduros designs were, they just were not widespread since the standard was the designs approved by the Prophets(What we see in HW, Reach, CE, 2, 3).

Also as far as I can tell we only see a grunt with Post-War armor. We don't see the armor designs of any elites in the trailer.
JJAB91 wrote:
I'm not seeing why Sam's CQC helmet couldn't just be one phase in the development of the CQC helmet that would be finalized after the Battle of Jericho VII. Daisy-023 had a helmet similar to it in Homecoming.
Sam's helmet appears to be CQB not CQC.

Also Daisy's helmet isn't canon just like the majority of Halo Legends' visual styling.
I stand corrected, CQB. not CQC. Still, I'm not seeing the conflict. As for Daisy's helmet not being canon, exactly where do Legend's visual stylings become non-canon? Things like Han's design as a female Sangheili? Yes. But Daisy's armor? Given that we've been seeing Spartans in different armor variants, why would that instance have to be non-canon? Kelly wears a EVA helmet in Legends, seems to have one here and in Halo 5 and Escalation that is more the same. Frankie said their is interpretation to this kind of thing.
Frankie directly stated in the commentary for that Halo Legends episode Daisy's helmet was a "nod" to multiplayer fans and not canonically set in stone.
JJAB91 wrote:
JJAB91 wrote:
I'm not seeing why Sam's CQC helmet couldn't just be one phase in the development of the CQC helmet that would be finalized after the Battle of Jericho VII. Daisy-023 had a helmet similar to it in Homecoming.
Sam's helmet appears to be CQB not CQC.

Also Daisy's helmet isn't canon just like the majority of Halo Legends' visual styling.
I stand corrected, CQB. not CQC. Still, I'm not seeing the conflict. As for Daisy's helmet not being canon, exactly where do Legend's visual stylings become non-canon? Things like Han's design as a female Sangheili? Yes. But Daisy's armor? Given that we've been seeing Spartans in different armor variants, why would that instance have to be non-canon? Kelly wears a EVA helmet in Legends, seems to have one here and in Halo 5 and Escalation that is more the same. Frankie said their is interpretation to this kind of thing.
Frankie directly stated in the commentary for that Halo Legends episode Daisy's helmet was a "nod" to multiplayer fans and not canonically set in stone.
Understood. Gotta rewatch that commentary sometime. Still, does that mean Sam could not have been testing an early form of the design? I'm all for keeping the number of retcons down, but I don't think we need to be absolutely bound to the books as they were. If so, then Elites would first be encountered at Reach and Brutes would still have been encountered first at the Raid on the Unyielding Hierophant. We all managed to accept those just fine, so a helmet doesn't bother me too much.
JJAB91 wrote:
JJAB91 wrote:
I'm not seeing why Sam's CQC helmet couldn't just be one phase in the development of the CQC helmet that would be finalized after the Battle of Jericho VII. Daisy-023 had a helmet similar to it in Homecoming.
Sam's helmet appears to be CQB not CQC.

Also Daisy's helmet isn't canon just like the majority of Halo Legends' visual styling.
I stand corrected, CQB. not CQC. Still, I'm not seeing the conflict. As for Daisy's helmet not being canon, exactly where do Legend's visual stylings become non-canon? Things like Han's design as a female Sangheili? Yes. But Daisy's armor? Given that we've been seeing Spartans in different armor variants, why would that instance have to be non-canon? Kelly wears a EVA helmet in Legends, seems to have one here and in Halo 5 and Escalation that is more the same. Frankie said their is interpretation to this kind of thing.
Frankie directly stated in the commentary for that Halo Legends episode the helmet was a "nod" to multiplayer fans and not canonically set in stone.
But that doesn't say its not canon. It's like when people plan something but its not set in stone meaning it may change. Alot of visuals in legends have been shown to be canon recently, this may just be another one.
Also practically: books can afford to have all of the armor identical, visual mediums cannot, so the armor in the visual medium is given different models so each character can stand out.
Yeah, but all the canon issues would've been averted by just having Sam wear any other helmet that did canonically exist at the time.
JJAB91 wrote:
JJAB91 wrote:
I'm not seeing why Sam's CQC helmet couldn't just be one phase in the development of the CQC helmet that would be finalized after the Battle of Jericho VII. Daisy-023 had a helmet similar to it in Homecoming.
Sam's helmet appears to be CQB not CQC.

Also Daisy's helmet isn't canon just like the majority of Halo Legends' visual styling.
I stand corrected, CQB. not CQC. Still, I'm not seeing the conflict. As for Daisy's helmet not being canon, exactly where do Legend's visual stylings become non-canon? Things like Han's design as a female Sangheili? Yes. But Daisy's armor? Given that we've been seeing Spartans in different armor variants, why would that instance have to be non-canon? Kelly wears a EVA helmet in Legends, seems to have one here and in Halo 5 and Escalation that is more the same. Frankie said their is interpretation to this kind of thing.
Frankie directly stated in the commentary for that Halo Legends episode Daisy's helmet was a "nod" to multiplayer fans and not canonically set in stone.
Understood. Gotta rewatch that commentary sometime. Still, does that mean Sam could not have been testing an early form of the design? I'm all for keeping the number of retcons down, but I don't think we need to be absolutely bound to the books as they were. If so, then Elites would first be encountered at Reach and Brutes would still have been encountered first at the Raid on the Unyielding Hierophant. We all managed to accept those just fine, so a helmet doesn't bother me too much.
The difference is there is no real way to retcon CQB to allow Sam to have it in 2525. Its directly stated multiple times in different media that CQB was specifically created using information gained from the Battle of Jericho VII in 2535. How could a prototype for CQB exist then? Thats like if instead we saw Sam with Prefect armor and when questioned on how he has that armor when humanity barely even knew anything about the Forerunners yet 343i just stated "well its a prototype" No. You can't just prototype your way out of everything. It has to make sense for there to be a prototype of whatever it is you're discussing. I feel like this has become 343i's version of "a wizard did it" a hand wave to do whatever they wish. Sure the original version of TFOR stated things such as not encountering elites until 2552 but that can be chalked up to early installment weirdness. The Halo franchise is now 13 years old, they don't have that excuse anymore.
Skeleborn wrote:
Yeah, but all the canon issues would've been averted by just having Sam wear the CQC helmet from Reach, which is canonically the CQB's predecessor. Or any other helmet, really.
Exactly thats what bothers me the most. They choose to give Sam this helmet which has already been established to not exist yet. They could had given him any other helmet that DID exist then. Or the BR, they could had given him any weapon but they specifically choose to give him one that wouldn't exist for another 30 years.
Sure small things could be changed to help the viewer understand whats going on like Grim said. But how is giving Sam that BR helping viewers? How is giving him CQB instead of something else helping viewers? Its not helping fans know who Blue Team is better. Its not helping anyone and only stands to alienate fans who DO know this lore.
JJAB91 wrote:
Skeleborn wrote:
Yeah, but all the canon issues would've been averted by just having Sam wear the CQC helmet from Reach, which is canonically the CQB's predecessor. Or any other helmet, really.
Exactly thats what bothers me the most. They choose to give Sam this helmet which has already been established to not exist yet. They could had given him any other helmet that DID exist then. Or the BR, they could had given him any weapon but they specifically choose to give him one that wouldn't exist for another 30 years.
Sure small changes could be changed to help the viewer understand whats going on like Grim said. But how is giving Sam that BR helping viewers? How is giving him CQB instead of something else helping viewers? Its not helping fans know who Blue Team is better. Its not helping anyone and only stands to alienate fans who DO know this lore.
I could ask how giving him CQB and the BR hurting viewers. Nor does it really hurt me as someone who knows the lore. I get the CQB problem and I might have to agree..too an extent. The BR? Not really.
JJAB91 wrote:
Skeleborn wrote:
Yeah, but all the canon issues would've been averted by just having Sam wear the CQC helmet from Reach, which is canonically the CQB's predecessor. Or any other helmet, really.
Exactly thats what bothers me the most. They choose to give Sam this helmet which has already been established to not exist yet. They could had given him any other helmet that DID exist then. Or the BR, they could had given him any weapon but they specifically choose to give him one that wouldn't exist for another 30 years.
Sure small changes could be changed to help the viewer understand whats going on like Grim said. But how is giving Sam that BR helping viewers? How is giving him CQB instead of something else helping viewers? Its not helping fans know who Blue Team is better. Its not helping anyone and only stands to alienate fans who DO know this lore.
I think I got it! It was said once that the armor looks don't matter its what is inside that counts. Maybe this armor looks like CQB but isn't. Maybe they made CQB visual design based on this helments design, kinda like how Cortana made the Modified Mark 6 look like an early mark 4 model.
JJAB91 wrote:
Skeleborn wrote:
Yeah, but all the canon issues would've been averted by just having Sam wear the CQC helmet from Reach, which is canonically the CQB's predecessor. Or any other helmet, really.
Exactly thats what bothers me the most. They choose to give Sam this helmet which has already been established to not exist yet. They could had given him any other helmet that DID exist then. Or the BR, they could had given him any weapon but they specifically choose to give him one that wouldn't exist for another 30 years.
Sure small changes could be changed to help the viewer understand whats going on like Grim said. But how is giving Sam that BR helping viewers? How is giving him CQB instead of something else helping viewers? Its not helping fans know who Blue Team is better. Its not helping anyone and only stands to alienate fans who DO know this lore.
I could ask how giving him CQB and the BR hurting viewers. Nor does it really hurt me as someone who knows the lore. I get the CQB problem and I might have to agree..too an extent. The BR? Not really.
But how is it helping viewers? That is after all what Grim said any changes were for. The BR matters because the BR he is holding is the BR-85 which did not enter service until late in the Covenant War. The only BR that existed was the extremely limited prototype the XBR-55 which Johnson had at Harvest. Why would Blue Team have access to that? Also we already know what that looked like, it looked like the BR-55 as expected as a prototype for that weapon not the BR-85 we see in the trailer.
Couldn't tell you. Of course, now that I really think about it, the Halo Wars 2 trailer had the BR55 in it, so I'm now at a loss as to why the BR85 design would be in the animated series. I mean, I'm comfortable with it being an aesthetic deal, but now I think Grim should go into better detail on the fiction vs practical stance.
At 01:12, Kelly's pointing her shotgun right at Sam. I thought they were friends? Or have they turned Sam into a traitor too? IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?
Skeleborn wrote:
At 01:12, Kelly's pointing her shotgun right at Sam. I thought they were friends? Or have they turned Sam into a traitor too? IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?
#HuntDaTruth!!!
JJAB91 wrote:
Pause at 1:12 I already see two major errors.

1. Samuel can be seen wearing CQB. The CQB armor variant was not developed until after the Battle of Jericho VII which took place in 2535. Thats 10 years after this scene.

2. Samuel is also seen wielding a Battle Rifle. Not only was the BR we know today not developed yet(Outside of a few prototypes such as the XBR-55, but why would the Spartans have access to that?) but the BR he is holding is the BR-85, a weapon that was not developed until late in the Covenant War almost 30 years later and based on the data from the BR-55 and BR-55HB which didn't even exist yet.

3. We also see later in the trailer a brief flash of Linda in ARGUS-class Mjolnir, which to my knowledge didn't exist yet either.
Fictionally: You realize that lots of tech is prototyped YEARS in advance, right?

Not in the anime method.
Anime method meaning actually seeing combat.

Quote:
Practically: Sometimes you make decisions based on the need to make relateable connections. Every once in a while that might not jive with random scattered details that were "preestablished." It's not remotely egregious enough to not be able to enjoy the whole piece because of it lol. Embrace the details when they line up (which they usually do), and don't fret the ones that don't necessarily do so exactly how you would want it to (as well as assume there is always some sort of reason for why it was done that way).

:-)
Translation:
Marketing did it's testing with people who know absolutely NOTHING about the franchise so to "synergize" the product must look exactly like the current one being sold otherwise the average human brain cannot make the leap and connect the different products with each other even when the title of both product is the same, Halo, and the description of both product describe the same exact universe.

This is why i truly hate marketing.
Because a Halo CG movie needs to be tested with soccer moms....

Please, having the old Grunts, the old elites, the old armor was not going to confuse anyone but a 5 year old that somehow got he ability to drive himself to store and have money to attempt to buy a movie. Seriously.

Anyway, yeah, i dont like that they stayed with the 343 so much that even the female Mjolnir armor looks different than the male one.
At that time the average person was saying that you couldn't tell female spartans from male spartans apart. And from the vid they clearly have different armors that anyone could pick out quickly.
I'll steal a bit from CF to help elucidate...

Nothing has changed about the CQB variant of the Mjolnir armor system. Samuel is utilizing a developmental helmet permutation that shares visual cues with the eventual CQB. This kind of cross-germination of physical shape and design between all Mjolnir platforms was pervasive in the early development of Mjolnir at the Materials Group facilities.
The CQB could have been a previous Mjolnir Mark IV variant that was later suited for the CQB's expectations at least this is what I think, there's no official thing on it but this would be my biggest guess. I assume you all remember Daisy-023?

http://www.halopedia.org/Daisy-023

Another SPARTAN-II equipped with the same helmet and having the exact same issue, not in service yet. Daisy's full on CQB armour has been said not to be CQB and is just an unknown variant that looks exactly like CQB... nice save there 343. (Unless my theory is correct)

It really baffles me though how can 343 make the same mistake twice... why don't they check things before they do them? They already changed chief's helmet in the animated series, so why not just give Samuel-034 the helmet from Halo wars? I mean they look different enough to me.
Is it worth watching this?
JJAB91 wrote:
Pause at 1:12 I already see two major errors.

1. Samuel can be seen wearing CQB. The CQB armor variant was not developed until after the Battle of Jericho VII which took place in 2535. Thats 10 years after this scene.

2. Samuel is also seen wielding a Battle Rifle. Not only was the BR we know today not developed yet(Outside of a few prototypes such as the XBR-55, but why would the Spartans have access to that?) but the BR he is holding is the BR-85, a weapon that was not developed until late in the Covenant War almost 30 years later and based on the data from the BR-55 and BR-55HB which didn't even exist yet.

3. We also see later in the trailer a brief flash of Linda in ARGUS-class Mjolnir, which to my knowledge didn't exist yet either.
Fictionally: You realize that lots of tech is prototyped YEARS in advance, right?

Not in the anime method.
Anime method meaning actually seeing combat.

Quote:
Practically: Sometimes you make decisions based on the need to make relateable connections. Every once in a while that might not jive with random scattered details that were "preestablished." It's not remotely egregious enough to not be able to enjoy the whole piece because of it lol. Embrace the details when they line up (which they usually do), and don't fret the ones that don't necessarily do so exactly how you would want it to (as well as assume there is always some sort of reason for why it was done that way).

:-)
Translation:
Marketing did it's testing with people who know absolutely NOTHING about the franchise so to "synergize" the product must look exactly like the current one being sold otherwise the average human brain cannot make the leap and connect the different products with each other even when the title of both product is the same, Halo, and the description of both product describe the same exact universe.

This is why i truly hate marketing.
Because a Halo CG movie needs to be tested with soccer moms....

Please, having the old Grunts, the old elites, the old armor was not going to confuse anyone but a 5 year old that somehow got he ability to drive himself to store and have money to attempt to buy a movie. Seriously.

Anyway, yeah, i dont like that they stayed with the 343 so much that even the female Mjolnir armor looks different than the male one.
At that time the average person was saying that you couldn't tell female spartans from male spartans apart. And from the vid they clearly have different armors that anyone could pick out quickly.
I know that in the perfect romanticized world of canonical hypersensitivity, everything would always fit, would never change once established, and would be disconnected from all environmental factors save for fictional purity.

I also know that it isn't reality. Also, while you might not like some of those "outside influences" meddling in your fictional details, the reality is that WITHOUT an incredible effort from all sorts of different sides of the equation, including marketing, we wouldn't even have a franchise to argue about.

Also, you hate marketing? How are you enjoying Hunt the Truth?
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