Forums / Community / Halo Universe

Canon Fodder 2-13-15: In the Loop

OP GrimBrother One

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Don't change it grim! lol although the evidence is there, I like that she shares the same birthday as me...

-her number one fan xx

Oh ho ho...you might have to fight me for that title, friend. ;)
That is kinda neat that it happens to be your birthday too though. Either way, Kelly-087 is amazing no matter when her birthday is. Kelly lovers unite!
YEAH!!!
The ORS and Epoch are both really awesome.

I don't suppose we can finally get chief's last name?
That would be great! oh, but would you rather see John's(current) face or know his full name?
The ORS looks amazing. excited for more goodies, especially if they're of this caliber.
I've always wanted a Halo miniatures table top game and now that this has been announced I'm over the moon. I'm a little surprised about the scale though. I thought it would be a little bigger.
I also love the designs for the two new ships and am happy to see more and more designs.
By the way, I've noticed something else for Kelly. The entry says she wore Air Assault Mark IV armor (during the battle at Corbulo in 2526, I suppose) however Air Assault apparently entered service only in 2535. Do you mind explaining if she was fieldtesting an early prototype or if Air Assault's history has been retconned? Or something like that?
The ORS and Epoch are probably one of my favorite ship designs I've seen.
Unikraken wrote:
I'm sorry, but the ORS is a very sad kitbashed mix match of different Covenant ships. With a couple of changes the ship could've been a great addition to the lore, but it misses some pretty key design aesthetics simply by virtue of being kitbashed together. The Covenant doesn't borrow chunks and pieces from various designs. They either down/up scale an entire ship or design a new one wholly from the ground up. The ORS is just a mess and that 343 didn't see that is incredibly troubling for fans of the ships of Halo. The entire engine section is just copy-pasted from a CCS, the bow of the ship is just copied from a CAS with CCS prongs thrown on. The bow could be forgiven if they hadn't literally copied the CCS's engine section.

It's bad enough that Bungie and 343 thought having the CRS and RCS be copies of the CCS was a good idea, let alone the CSO being a literal polygon-for-polygon copy of Halo 3's CAS. You guys really need to man up and start creating original designs instead of recycling stuff that worked 10 years ago.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the Ticonderoga-class cruiser uses the same hull and shares many of the same systems as the Spruance-class destroyer, with both classes exhibiting the same architectural style with most western combat vessels of the period. A proposed ballistic missile defense cruiser could use the same hull as the San Antonio-class amphibious landing platform dock ship. Lastly, many aircraft carriers up until the end of the 1940s were built on hulls or were refitted from from cruisers and merchant ships; flight deck designs often carry over from previous classes. Your argument ignores precedent in the real world where proven designs, whether they're as simple as a stabilizer or as complex as an entire hull, can and will be used in the future to strengthen its capabilities efficiently and economically.

ORS is not only a good looking design, but it's smart. Because not everything you see sailing the seas, treading across wide open plains, or thundering through the skies needs to be an iconic, totally unique property just so fans can distinguish it. This design succeeds so well because you think it's a boring waste of time on 343's part. The naval architects of the former Covenant wouldn't have nearly such strong as feelings about it as you. They wanted to pump out as many ships as possible utilizing the most advanced, already proven technologies. You'll see a lot of "kitbashing" in most navies throughout history and will for quite some time.

You mention that the Covenant only scales their ships like CCS and CRS, or CSO and CAS. However, what's the difference between those vessels besides their size and the role they can play according to that? The CCS and CRS fulfill many of the same roles albeit at quite drastically different ranges and level of self-sustainability. The CSO and CAS, meanwhile, have only size to differentiate them. ORS incorporates the mature technologies of its sister ships throughout the Covenant fleet and integrates them into a notably stealthier profile with bolstered weapon systems. That's cause for an entirely new class. However, nothing about that prohibits the design from drawing inspiration and implementing proven systems from previous classes.

Also, please don't say something as ridiculous as "man up." First off, not all of Halo's fans and developers are men, and secondly, you're complaining about a lack of artistic imagination in a tabletop miniature game based on a fictional science fiction universe. Chill.
The ORS and Epoch are both really awesome.

I don't suppose we can finally get chief's last name?

That would be great! oh, but would you rather see John's(current) face or know his full name?
Eh, I'd say his face being secret is still sort of part of his thing. It's even been big of gag at points. They hint at it a lot these days. I'd rather save the full reveal for a future game.

His full name really means nothing in the end, but its a nice in universe touch. Much like the last names of the other S-II's that they are revealing.
Grizzlei wrote:
The fleet geek inside me is so excited for this new game. Finally starships big and small are finally getting the love they deserve in the Haloverse! :)

Also, I'm loving the Keyes Loop nod!
I knew there would be people who got it... You being one of them doesn't surprise me in the slightest. lol ;-)
The link to the Universe Article for the Ghost keeps sending me to a Microsoft domain sign in

Fixed :-)
Why is the ghost listed as being produced only by Lodam armoury when Iruiru armoury produces it as well?
Unikraken wrote:
I'm sorry, but the ORS is a very sad kitbashed mix match of different Covenant ships. With a couple of changes the ship could've been a great addition to the lore, but it misses some pretty key design aesthetics simply by virtue of being kitbashed together. The Covenant doesn't borrow chunks and pieces from various designs. They either down/up scale an entire ship or design a new one wholly from the ground up. The ORS is just a mess and that 343 didn't see that is incredibly troubling for fans of the ships of Halo. The entire engine section is just copy-pasted from a CCS, the bow of the ship is just copied from a CAS with CCS prongs thrown on. The bow could be forgiven if they hadn't literally copied the CCS's engine section.

They should've just taken Levi Hoffmeier's carrier since 343 has legal right to all fan created content.

http://i.imgur.com/XkgrjCx.jpg

It's bad enough that Bungie and 343 thought having the CRS and RCS be copies of the CCS was a good idea, let alone the CSO being a literal polygon-for-polygon copy of Halo 3's CAS. You guys really need to man up and start creating original designs instead of recycling stuff that worked 10 years ago.
I love the ORS. Covenant ships are meant for mass production. An ORS hevy cruiser is a class of ship that utilizes the stealth of a corvette, the base of the CCS and the modular dispersal technology of a CAS. It works, is true to covenant aesthetics and looks awesome.

As for the carrier you listed. Well considering how when a person designed the Unyielding Hierophant exactly as it was shown in Halo 2A years before the game was announced and how that carrier you've shown was on that sheet listed as DDS class carrier and used in a fan made game I would not be surprized if 343i canonizes the design.
It's great we finally got an article for Kelly (about time), but I'm disappointed by the canonization of her Legends helmet as her "default" appearance. Since The Package had her wearing EVA this has apparently stuck as her standard helmet, ignoring the fact Legends' visuals were never meant to be fully canon (in the very same episode we get anime silliness like high heels on Kelly's MJOLNIR, teenager Halsey, etc). And while EVA was actually appropriate for that particular mission as it was space-based, it makes no sense for her to keep wearing a vacuum-optimized helmet on ordinary ground ops. Canon isn't supposed to be like multiplayer where people choose their armor based on looks; the helmets are supposed to provide actual, functional advantages in the scenarios they're designed for. Since EVA and Pilot are both very specific in their intended roles, why would Kelly favor helmets which are optimized for totally different environments than the ones she usually finds herself in?

I also found the mention of the shotgun being her weapon of choice to be out of place, as I can't recall a single time in the novels where she's shown any particular preference for shotguns.
It is amazing. We will finally get to know more about the ships of the Halo lore!! I am really excited!!!

The Epoch and the ORS are amazing!!!! I loved both designs. The ORS looks very aggressive and powerful.

Since the Epoch is different from the UNSC Musashi or the UNSC Atlas, it means one of the two ships could actually be an Orion class, which was also hinted. Great!!
I want to see what a UNSC Supercarrier looks like. One thing I didn't like about Halo Reach, (and there are many things I didn't like), was that we never got to see the UNSC Trafalgar. Of course, we never learned her fate in the novel either but we can probably assume she was destroyed. Other ships I would like to see are the Valiant Class Super Heavy Cruiser. Perhaps they will have some ships from Halo 5 as well? Like the unidentified ships on Truth.

Actually, it would be neat if someday they could do Forerunner and Ancient Human-San'Shyuum vessels as well.
Thanks for that, Grim! All is forgiven (more or less).

Quote:
Kelly Shaddock was born on the inner colony of Imber in 2511 and selected for integration into the SPARTAN-II project at a very young age. In 2517, she was abducted, brought to the planet Reach, and given the name Kelly-087. During the initial years of her training, she was repeatedly resistant to the indoctrination, generally out of fear and anger.

Actually, hang on a minute. Kelly Shaddock... So now 087 has a last name! That's great, but the "fear and anger" bit bothers me ever so slightly. I mean, those emotions are a given under those circumstances, but let's make sure to not take this too far and wind up with another Naomi, or even worse, wind up with all the S-IIs having old trauma. You'd think after a few years the majority would have gotten more used to it- not everyone has to be like Grey Team or Naomi. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, I'm just noticing a trend in 343i writing.
You're not the only one to notice this trend. It seems as though most writers other than Nylund think it's edgy or cool to have Spartans fighting the system. I mean, sure, Kelly resisted having her hair cut in Nylund's own Halsey journal, but then again she shows no signs of rebellion, or repressed fear and anger for that matter, in any of the books. I have a nagging feeling that we're witnessing what TV Tropes calls "Flanderization": the arbitrary and often unconscious exaggeration of certain character traits over time:

Resisted having her hair cut? --> Rebellious up to eleven!

Used a shotgun once in an outrageously silly anime episode? --> Close Combat Shotgun Blaster Extraordinaire! (She nearly always uses an assault rifle in the novels. In First Strike, she actually dual-wields pistols for a time.)

Wore an EVA helmet on a space mission? --> She loves EVA and never wears anything other than EVA-like helmets! This bit is the one that bothers me the most. A random third-party anime artist decided that EVA would look good on her and later visual media just rolls with this without regard for the context (real or fictional) of her choice of helmet in the anime. It should also be noted that most people probably think The Package was Kelly's visual debut, but she actually appeared on the cover of Ghosts of Onyx as the Mark V-armored Spartan (she was the only one wearing the Mark V at the time).

I suppose I'm just irked by how chaotically these design/lore decisions are made, like these character attributes are being randomly pulled from a very narrow sampling of sources without taking into account the bigger picture.
I LOVE this series.
Hey! Looks like Kelly's birthday has been adjusted to September 21st.

...Now they just need to fix the year back to being 2511 and it'll be perfect. *hint hint*

Seriously though, I do really appreciate that GrimBrother One (and whoever else is in charge of the new Universe section, if there are others) are willing to listen to the community and use our collective knowledge of Halo to make this new section of the website even better and more informative. :)
Thanks for that, Grim! All is forgiven (more or less).

Quote:
Kelly Shaddock was born on the inner colony of Imber in 2511 and selected for integration into the SPARTAN-II project at a very young age. In 2517, she was abducted, brought to the planet Reach, and given the name Kelly-087. During the initial years of her training, she was repeatedly resistant to the indoctrination, generally out of fear and anger.

Actually, hang on a minute. Kelly Shaddock... So now 087 has a last name! That's great, but the "fear and anger" bit bothers me ever so slightly. I mean, those emotions are a given under those circumstances, but let's make sure to not take this too far and wind up with another Naomi, or even worse, wind up with all the S-IIs having old trauma. You'd think after a few years the majority would have gotten more used to it- not everyone has to be like Grey Team or Naomi. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, I'm just noticing a trend in 343i writing.
It makes sense for her though, she values her speed, she doesn't want that ruined by a failed augmentation. Its nice to know these Spartan-II's have some sort of emotion to them now instead of these hulking behemoths in armor.
I'd like to know a lot more about these Spartans and what emotions they may or may not have ^^ hell, I want a book about the other Spartans besides John, like a book about Kelly herself or something
Skeleborn wrote:
Thanks for that, Grim! All is forgiven (more or less).

Quote:
Kelly Shaddock was born on the inner colony of Imber in 2511 and selected for integration into the SPARTAN-II project at a very young age. In 2517, she was abducted, brought to the planet Reach, and given the name Kelly-087. During the initial years of her training, she was repeatedly resistant to the indoctrination, generally out of fear and anger.


Actually, hang on a minute. Kelly Shaddock... So now 087 has a last name! That's great, but the "fear and anger" bit bothers me ever so slightly. I mean, those emotions are a given under those circumstances, but let's make sure to not take this too far and wind up with another Naomi, or even worse, wind up with all the S-IIs having old trauma. You'd think after a few years the majority would have gotten more used to it- not everyone has to be like Grey Team or Naomi. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, I'm just noticing a trend in 343i writing.

You're not the only one to notice this trend. It seems as though most writers other than Nylund think it's edgy or cool to have Spartans fighting the system. I mean, sure, Kelly resisted having her hair cut in Nylund's own Halsey journal, but then again she shows no signs of rebellion, or repressed fear and anger for that matter, in any of the books. I have a nagging feeling that we're witnessing what TV Tropes calls "Flanderization": the arbitrary and often unconscious exaggeration of certain character traits over time:

Resisted having her hair cut? --> Rebellious up to eleven!

Used a shotgun once in an outrageously silly anime episode? --> Close Combat Shotgun Blaster Extraordinaire! (She nearly always uses an assault rifle in the novels. In First Strike, she actually dual-wields pistols for a time.)

Wore an EVA helmet on a space mission? --> She loves EVA and never wears anything other than EVA-like helmets! This bit is the one that bothers me the most. A random third-party anime artist decided that EVA would look good on her and later visual media just rolls with this without regard for the context (real or fictional) of her choice of helmet in the anime. It should also be noted that most people probably think The Package was Kelly's visual debut, but she actually appeared on the cover of Ghosts of Onyx as the Mark V-armored Spartan (she was the only one wearing the Mark V at the time).

I suppose I'm just irked by how chaotically these design/lore decisions are made, like these character attributes are being randomly pulled from a very narrow sampling of sources without taking into account the bigger picture.
I do agree that its weird that she now "Loves" EVA armor based on The Package, she wore Mark V Armor in Ghost of Onyx for gods sake :P
Now I imagine they'll revamp the book's cover to fit with the program
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