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Canon Fodder 2-18-16: Storm Surge

OP GrimBrother One

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Onyx81 wrote:
Onyx81 wrote:
Onyx81 wrote:
Its also just the act of kicking people out of their jobs, especially when they don't seem 100% military based. It didn't seem so bad when the forerunners enacted the mantle because it gave the impression species simply never got to advance to higher stages, but now the Created are going around kicking people out of their jobs 'for the greater good'.

I guess its just really hard to be sympathetic to their faction when she's obsessed with an interpretation of the mantle that even the forerunner's realized was an issue by the end.
Yeah, that "greater good" seems to only benefit the Created as far as I can see. Are the terraformed planets meant to help organic species? Not as far as I can tell and it isn't explicitly said to either. Will Auriga Station organic species? Seems like Cortana is using it as an arms factory near as I can see.
The terraforming of planets was explicitely stated to be said to reverse the devastation caused by the Covenant War by turning them into garden worlds.

While Cortana is certainly on the war path, I suspect that we'll find out that quality of life for millions of individuals have increased drastically. Not for everyone, but I don't think this will be an organics vs AI conflict.

I obviously don't have anything to back that up, but Halo's never really been about telling one sided stories with obvious good and bad guys.
You are right about the terraforming reversing destruction but it also said for the Created's purposes, nothing explictly about using those worlds for the betterment of non-AI beings. As for Halo not being about telling one-sided stories, the Kilo-5 trilogy says hi. Hell, for the longest time a lot of stuff was all about how much of a monster Halsey was, so it comes off as odd that Cortana and her acts are being treated with kid gloves so far.
I don't really know what artificial intelligences would need lush worlds for other than supporting life easily. I mean, they already have immortality in the Domain. I wouldn't really say it's being handled with kid's gloves. The Breaking has the Master Chief accusing Cortana of killing people. The dialogue in the level also shows that the Chief is going to oppose Cortana with all his might and will if he needs to. And as you, myself, and many others have noticed a lot of her initial actions have led and are going to lead to lots of violence and death. At this point in the story, almost all of the narrative is pointing at Cortana being the bad guy.

Then there's also the fact that there are different writers, and maybe some people at 343i got wind that some of its fans REALLY don't like when its characters are called murdering nazis.
Then again, if Cortana wanted to make life easier, couldn't she have terraformed lifeless worlds as opposed to ones with life already on it AND existing infrastructure? Course, Cortana and the Created's capabilities appear to be hypothetical as the description for Riptide states that in a few decades the work will be done. The narrative painting Cortana bad isn't my point, it's from 343 themselves. Reed stated bluntly Halsey was a monster and one of the former writers for Spartan Ops said that depending on your POV Halsey was either misguided or a villain, nothing suggesting an alternative to those points of view. Then you have the aforementioned Kilo-5 stuff where the last book essentially compared Halsey to Hitler. 343 Industries approved that. Yet now we are told she is just doing something we don't agree with (ONLY that?) and that she totally isn't evil. Now Grim seems to be making an excuse for her in regards to removing the human crew on the Auriga Station. I'm not saying he is wrong or lying, but it doesn't clarify anything either nor show anything in the proper context. Did she ask them to leave? Did she force them to leave with Promethean Soldiers pointing Light Rifles at them? How did they get off? Lifeboats? Commandeered UNSC frigates/transports? Slipspace Pelicans? I don't blame anyone thinking she killed them since she showed no regret at killing before in much larger numbers.
You're going off topic from what I was talking about, but okay.
Explain where I am in error and thus went off-topic from what you were talking about if you could. Narratively I don't disagree with you.
I just re-read our conversation. Not gonna lie, I don't even know why I said you we're off topic anymore. So my apologies. I've stayed up way too late working on homework.
Onyx81 wrote:
Onyx81 wrote:
Onyx81 wrote:
Onyx81 wrote:
Its also just the act of kicking people out of their jobs, especially when they don't seem 100% military based. It didn't seem so bad when the forerunners enacted the mantle because it gave the impression species simply never got to advance to higher stages, but now the Created are going around kicking people out of their jobs 'for the greater good'.

I guess its just really hard to be sympathetic to their faction when she's obsessed with an interpretation of the mantle that even the forerunner's realized was an issue by the end.
Yeah, that "greater good" seems to only benefit the Created as far as I can see. Are the terraformed planets meant to help organic species? Not as far as I can tell and it isn't explicitly said to either. Will Auriga Station organic species? Seems like Cortana is using it as an arms factory near as I can see.
The terraforming of planets was explicitely stated to be said to reverse the devastation caused by the Covenant War by turning them into garden worlds.

While Cortana is certainly on the war path, I suspect that we'll find out that quality of life for millions of individuals have increased drastically. Not for everyone, but I don't think this will be an organics vs AI conflict.

I obviously don't have anything to back that up, but Halo's never really been about telling one sided stories with obvious good and bad guys.
You are right about the terraforming reversing destruction but it also said for the Created's purposes, nothing explictly about using those worlds for the betterment of non-AI beings. As for Halo not being about telling one-sided stories, the Kilo-5 trilogy says hi. Hell, for the longest time a lot of stuff was all about how much of a monster Halsey was, so it comes off as odd that Cortana and her acts are being treated with kid gloves so far.
I don't really know what artificial intelligences would need lush worlds for other than supporting life easily. I mean, they already have immortality in the Domain. I wouldn't really say it's being handled with kid's gloves. The Breaking has the Master Chief accusing Cortana of killing people. The dialogue in the level also shows that the Chief is going to oppose Cortana with all his might and will if he needs to. And as you, myself, and many others have noticed a lot of her initial actions have led and are going to lead to lots of violence and death. At this point in the story, almost all of the narrative is pointing at Cortana being the bad guy.

Then there's also the fact that there are different writers, and maybe some people at 343i got wind that some of its fans REALLY don't like when its characters are called murdering nazis.
Then again, if Cortana wanted to make life easier, couldn't she have terraformed lifeless worlds as opposed to ones with life already on it AND existing infrastructure? Course, Cortana and the Created's capabilities appear to be hypothetical as the description for Riptide states that in a few decades the work will be done. The narrative painting Cortana bad isn't my point, it's from 343 themselves. Reed stated bluntly Halsey was a monster and one of the former writers for Spartan Ops said that depending on your POV Halsey was either misguided or a villain, nothing suggesting an alternative to those points of view. Then you have the aforementioned Kilo-5 stuff where the last book essentially compared Halsey to Hitler. 343 Industries approved that. Yet now we are told she is just doing something we don't agree with (ONLY that?) and that she totally isn't evil. Now Grim seems to be making an excuse for her in regards to removing the human crew on the Auriga Station. I'm not saying he is wrong or lying, but it doesn't clarify anything either nor show anything in the proper context. Did she ask them to leave? Did she force them to leave with Promethean Soldiers pointing Light Rifles at them? How did they get off? Lifeboats? Commandeered UNSC frigates/transports? Slipspace Pelicans? I don't blame anyone thinking she killed them since she showed no regret at killing before in much larger numbers.
You're going off topic from what I was talking about, but okay.
Explain where I am in error and thus went off-topic from what you were talking about if you could. Narratively I don't disagree with you.
I just re-read our conversation. Not gonna lie, I don't even know why I said you we're off topic anymore. So my apologies. I've stayed up way too late working on homework.
Nah, there isn't anything to worry about. I've been known to go on tangents, so I can't blame you if you came to that conclusion.
Great Cannon Fodder, Grim! I can't wait to use that grav hammer on Torque.
"Cortana quickly repurposed the loyalties of the station’s resident AI"

I still get a logic plague vibe from this.

"Meanwhile, an audacious plan has been hatched to deny the Created their prize: board Auriga Station with Spartan operatives, disable or steal the manufacturing systems on board, and wipe the AIs still bound to its holographic storage systems. In order to train for the assault a perfect recreation of a critical area on Auriga’s habitat ring has been constructed in War Games, codenamed 'Torque.'"

You know what would be great? Story DLC.
Why don't the spartans use the EMP blast, used in halo wars, move it and secure it. Seems easier.
No cryptic clue?
I like lore behind the maps.
Some one can explain this: Sangheili-procured forges
English foreign, cannot understand clearly.
The buy or get Sangheili technology? Or tech get by Sangheili? And forges - it's mean technology or facilites?
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
This.
Concidering 343 still want to hold their ground on the notion that Cortana isn't evil, they really arn't doing themselfs any favors.
If they want to suggest that she let them go pacefully, then say that. Don't say 'removed' and expect us not to jump to the conclusion that she threw them out the airlock.

She's killed thousands, if not a couple of million people, getting her miliraty police force off the ground. I doubt she'd give a sack of nuts about a few scientists.

"Cortana quickly repurposed the loyalties of the station’s resident AI"
I still get a logic plague vibe from this.
Thats exactly what I thought.

"Beating hearts have now been replaced by the inflamed obsessions of caretakers eager to use the station’s tools to harvest, decompile, and rebuild new tools and weapons to be wielded by constructs advancing Cortana’s plans across her growing ecumene"
That sounds very Flood like to me!
Wait....I thought Naomi retired at the end of Mortal Dictata, after she briefly reunited with her father?
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
I'm assuming she composed them and made them into her soldiers much like the Didact did, assuming the Guardians have something along those lines of a Composer like the Didact's ship had
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
I'm assuming she composed them and made them into her soldiers much like the Didact did, assuming the Guardians have something along those lines of a Composer like the Didact's ship had
Spoiler:
Show
Love the new lore Grim, I have a question, just one this time XD

Is the Halo Reach Assault Rifle (MA37) still in use, or do the soldiers of the UNSC just sort of upgrade to the next best thing?
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
I'm assuming she composed them and made them into her soldiers much like the Didact did, assuming the Guardians have something along those lines of a Composer like the Didact's ship had
Spoiler:
Show

Then I'm guessing Cortana simply captured the people or something?
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
I'm assuming she composed them and made them into her soldiers much like the Didact did, assuming the Guardians have something along those lines of a Composer like the Didact's ship had
Spoiler:
Show

Then I'm guessing Cortana simply captured the people or something?
Or killed them...
The other map about the created changing worlds seemed kinda vague to me on the evil scale...but uh...now she's just flat out purging stations of people now?
"Removing" doesn't have to mean killing.
Well, she DID kill people activating some of the Guardians, it's clear Cortana doesn't actually care about loss of life. Are we to expect she just asked them nicely or ordered them out with the barrel of a gun?
I'm assuming she composed them and made them into her soldiers much like the Didact did, assuming the Guardians have something along those lines of a Composer like the Didact's ship had
Spoiler:
Show

Then I'm guessing Cortana simply captured the people or something?
Or killed them...
or Warden dispatched them and Cortana watched?
So Grim, if the Auriga Station reverse-engineers things, would such a station be able to make Composers if Cortana had the specs?
Doubtful, considering that Humanity has yet to fully understand what the particular Forerunner device they have on hand (a quote in Spartan Ops made act parison that for all they know, they could be banging around a Forerunner equivalent of a nuke like a monkey because of the sound it makes), let alone utilising the Forerunner tech to their fullest potential. An example would be UNSC Slipspace engines post war. In Hunters in the Dark, reversed engineered Forerunner engines can roughly travel 830 light years a day, while Forerunner engines during the Forerunner Saga can travel across the galaxy instantaneously, and theoretically the Audacity could traveled to Path Kathona instantaneousy without taking Slipspace reconciliation into account.

Honestly, I would be surprised if the UNSC can fully reverse engine Forerunner Coffee Machines. A Human research station developing something like the composer, something that was both experimental AND utilises Neural Physics is COMPLETELY out of the question.
So Grim, if the Auriga Station reverse-engineers things, would such a station be able to make Composers if Cortana had the specs?
Doubtful, considering that Humanity has yet to fully understand what the particular Forerunner device they have on hand (a quote in Spartan Ops made act parison that for all they know, they could be banging around a Forerunner equivalent of a nuke like a monkey because of the sound it makes), let alone utilising the Forerunner tech to their fullest potential. An example would be UNSC Slipspace engines post war. In Hunters in the Dark, reversed engineered Forerunner engines can roughly travel 830 light years a day, while Forerunner engines during the Forerunner Saga can travel across the galaxy instantaneously, and theoretically the Audacity could traveled to Path Kathona instantaneousy without taking Slipspace reconciliation into account.

Honestly, I would be surprised if the UNSC can fully reverse engine Forerunner Coffee Machines. A Human research station developing something like the composer, something that was both experimental AND utilises Neural Physics is COMPLETELY out of the question.
The Infinity's engines are forerunner.
So Grim, if the Auriga Station reverse-engineers things, would such a station be able to make Composers if Cortana had the specs?
Doubtful, considering that Humanity has yet to fully understand what the particular Forerunner device they have on hand (a quote in Spartan Ops made act parison that for all they know, they could be banging around a Forerunner equivalent of a nuke like a monkey because of the sound it makes), let alone utilising the Forerunner tech to their fullest potential. An example would be UNSC Slipspace engines post war. In Hunters in the Dark, reversed engineered Forerunner engines can roughly travel 830 light years a day, while Forerunner engines during the Forerunner Saga can travel across the galaxy instantaneously, and theoretically the Audacity could traveled to Path Kathona instantaneousy without taking Slipspace reconciliation into account.

Honestly, I would be surprised if the UNSC can fully reverse engine Forerunner Coffee Machines. A Human research station developing something like the composer, something that was both experimental AND utilises Neural Physics is COMPLETELY out of the question.
The Infinity's engines are forerunner.
The Infinity's engines are accurate to within a kilometre range. A Covenant Slipspace engine is accurate to an atom's diameter. So unless the Covenant have far more accurate engines than the Forerunners (we sure as hell know that's not the case, given that the Covenant built inferior copies of Forerunner tech), the UNSC still has a long way to go.

Then we have Lord Hold stating that UNSC Prototype engines could possibly reach the Ark in 9-10 months, while the Audacity (which was built a thousand years before the Forerunner Flood War) can (theoretically, when ignoring Slipspace reconciliation) reach Path Kathona (which is just over half the distance from the Ark) instantaneously.

Also, given that the Infinity's science lead is Henry Glassman, I certainly would say they haven't grasped the Forerunner Tech's full potential. Even Halsey is a monkey flinging poop everywhere in comparison to what the Forerunners were (and she should not have hacked into a Contender Class A.I. It took the Gravemind 47 years to reach that, more or less, same result).
As much as I really love the story bits and whatnot, those blurred REQs are killing me X_x
So Grim, if the Auriga Station reverse-engineers things, would such a station be able to make Composers if Cortana had the specs?
Doubtful, considering that Humanity has yet to fully understand what the particular Forerunner device they have on hand (a quote in Spartan Ops made act parison that for all they know, they could be banging around a Forerunner equivalent of a nuke like a monkey because of the sound it makes), let alone utilising the Forerunner tech to their fullest potential. An example would be UNSC Slipspace engines post war. In Hunters in the Dark, reversed engineered Forerunner engines can roughly travel 830 light years a day, while Forerunner engines during the Forerunner Saga can travel across the galaxy instantaneously, and theoretically the Audacity could traveled to Path Kathona instantaneousy without taking Slipspace reconciliation into account.

Honestly, I would be surprised if the UNSC can fully reverse engine Forerunner Coffee Machines. A Human research station developing something like the composer, something that was both experimental AND utilises Neural Physics is COMPLETELY out of the question.
The Infinity's engines are forerunner.
The Infinity's engines are accurate to within a kilometre range. A Covenant Slipspace engine is accurate to an atom's diameter. So unless the Covenant have far more accurate engines than the Forerunners (we sure as hell know that's not the case, given that the Covenant built inferior copies of Forerunner tech), the UNSC still has a long way to go.

Then we have Lord Hold stating that UNSC Prototype engines could possibly reach the Ark in 9-10 months, while the Audacity (which was built a thousand years before the Forerunner Flood War) can (theoretically, when ignoring Slipspace reconciliation) reach Path Kathona (which is just over half the distance from the Ark) instantaneously.

Also, given that the Infinity's science lead is Henry Glassman, I certainly would say they haven't grasped the Forerunner Tech's full potential. Even Halsey is a monkey flinging poop everywhere in comparison to what the Forerunners were (and she should not have hacked into a Contender Class A.I. It took the Gravemind 47 years to reach that, more or less, same result).
Yes but you can't ignor slipspace reconciliation.
Also, the Forerunners manupulated slipspace so that the Audacity could travel faster, which slowed everything else down. Without the ability to do that, it would have taken much longer.

And when you have a 5km long space ship, exiting slipspace with an acuracy of 0.5km, isn't that big of an issue.
You know, Halsey mentioned the Composer was very similar to the AI creation matrix used by the UNSC. Would it be far-fetched for Cortana, with this information, to jury-rig a Composer?
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