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Canon Fodder 3-11-16: Bulkhead Banter

OP GrimBrother One

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Great Cannon Fodder, Grim. I love the lore behind Halo's spacecraft. I can't wait for Tails from Slipspace either. :)
Am I the only one who noticed how we never see the back of the CPV-Class-Heavy Destroyer? xD
Actually, we have. Escalation 16 or 17, Glassed Horizon Part 1. Glassign of Minab. Also has a very... Extreme showing of Covenant glassing and UNSC ship scale. Ie. Continent size CPVs and teraton level plasma bombardment. I will just presume this is another example of Escalation Art at its finest. The best piece of Escalation Art is Escalation 1, when the meeting was attack, Lydus had a particularly noticeable... Extra leg.

Going back on topic, excellent Canon Fodder Grim. Will we be seeing anything in the Future that expands on these ships, specifically looking at them from a technical perspective (eg. Armaments, crew and fighter composition, in depth look into the structure of the vessel, etc.)? With the release of Fleet Battles my interest in this particular area of the Halo Universe has expanded exponentially and I'd certainly like to see things from Space Battles and individual ship vessels expand upon in time.
Regarding the unknown species in the Milky Way... It makes me remember the unknown spaceship that crashed on Installation 04 in the Halo CEA terminals. What species could be so advanced at the time... ? (~40,000 BCE, if I remember correctly, that's a long time before the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili became spacefaring species...)
Imrane 117 wrote:
Regarding the unknown species in the Milky Way... It makes me remember the unknown spaceship that crashed on Installation 04 in the Halo CEA terminals. What species could be so advanced at the time... ? (~40,000 BCE, if I remember correctly, that's a long time before the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili became spacefaring species...)
Well there is a few species that are space faring. Like the mysterious meddlers we heard about a couple times.
Yeah, but I mean they couldn't be those Grim talked about in this Canon Fodder issue. He only mentioned weak, minor species the San'Shyuum didn't really like.
Pelux94 wrote:
You talk about Tales from Slipspace 'cause there is a leak on waypoint. Now let's talk about this novel Grim <3
All in due time...
I hope it's called Halo: The Blooding Years. Now I am certain that those 2 words won't be in the title thanks to Murphy's law.
I was wondering if you could answer a question for me. I heard that ODSTs are given minor augmentations to strengthen bones, increase blood clot rate and lower the amount of food and water they need to keep going. I've been having some trouble verifying this fact so I was hoping you could do that for me.
Am I the only one who noticed how we never see the back of the CPV-Class-Heavy Destroyer? xD
Ken posted this on the HFB Facebook group. http://i.imgur.com/xSIArDe.jpg
Fantastic work!! Keep it up!
Imrane 117 wrote:
Regarding the unknown species in the Milky Way... It makes me remember the unknown spaceship that crashed on Installation 04 in the Halo CEA terminals. What species could be so advanced at the time... ? (~40,000 BCE, if I remember correctly, that's a long time before the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili became spacefaring species...)

I believe that the San'Shyuum were space faring before 100,000 BCE, unless I misunderstood what happened in the Forerunner Trilogy books. I also thought that the San'Shyuum were on the Human capital world of Charum Hakkor when the Master Builder test fired the first of the original 12 bigger Halo's. That was what destroyed the human's capital world, all the human and San'Shyuum still there, the Primordial's time lock prison, and all the Precursor Star Roads and other artifacts. I also remember a blockade of the San'Shyuum home system, isolating the San'Shyuum to their two worlds in that system, from around 100,000 BCE at the end of the Human-Forerunner War to around 90,000 BCE, just a few years before the pinnacle moments of the Forerunner-Flood War when the 7 new Halo's (smaller but more powerful) were fired to end the war... if my memory serves me correctly. If I have any of this wrong, please feel free to correct me. I prefer accuracy over politeness concerning corrections to the information I offer. There are so many details, and I don't think it's feasible to get the full understanding without discussion, such as this. I just hope I can get my new account above the 2 posts a day limit, so I can participate in more discussions.
TSForrest wrote:
Imrane 117 wrote:
Regarding the unknown species in the Milky Way... It makes me remember the unknown spaceship that crashed on Installation 04 in the Halo CEA terminals. What species could be so advanced at the time... ? (~40,000 BCE, if I remember correctly, that's a long time before the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili became spacefaring species...)

I believe that the San'Shyuum were space faring before 100,000 BCE, unless I misunderstood what happened in the Forerunner Trilogy books. I also thought that the San'Shyuum were on the Human capital world of Charum Hakkor when the Master Builder test fired the first of the original 12 bigger Halo's. That was what destroyed the human's capital world, all the human and San'Shyuum still there, the Primordial's time lock prison, and all the Precursor Star Roads and other artifacts. I also remember a blockade of the San'Shyuum home system, isolating the San'Shyuum to their two worlds in that system, from around 100,000 BCE at the end of the Human-Forerunner War to around 90,000 BCE, just a few years before the pinnacle moments of the Forerunner-Flood War when the 7 new Halo's (smaller but more powerful) were fired to end the war... if my memory serves me correctly. If I have any of this wrong, please feel free to correct me. I prefer accuracy over politeness concerning corrections to the information I offer. There are so many details, and I don't think it's feasible to get the full understanding without discussion, such as this. I just hope I can get my new account above the 2 posts a day limit, so I can participate in more discussions.
Your understanding of the Forerunner Trilogy is mostly accurate, though I'm not sure if Charum Hakkor was inhabited at the time of testing, as the Ancient Human empire was long dismantled before the test. I also recall the plot stressing, that the test fire on San 'Shyuum home soil was the first on living beings. I could be wrong.

I think you misunderstood the query.

Imrane 117 was wondering what species could have been space faring 40,000 years after activation of the Halo array.
It could possibly, somehow, turn out to be San 'Shyuum. However, their pre-activation status doesn't count for much, all civilisations were wiped clean 100,000 years ago.
Ah, the Valiant-class and CPV-class. Two of my favorite Halo starship designs. I'm curious Grim, what would the hull classification for the Valiant-class be? Since the Marathon-class is a Heavy Cruiser with CA as its classification, would the "Super" Heavy Cruiser be CB (Large Cruiser) or CC (Battlecruiser)?
I would hope that it would be CC, since that could double as 'command cruiser' as well.
Maybe CB for Valiants that didn't receive the command suite upgrade?

On that note:
    • Epoch could be designated as CVH, for heavy carrier.
    • Punic-class... well, I used to call them CVSH ('carrier vessel, superheavy'... and yes I know that the CV in modern times is shorthand for 'cruiser, voler', but it's been nearly 500 years since then, so surely it could change by then?), but the Canon Fodder entry refers to them as Space Control Vehicles, so I guess the canonical classification is SCV.
    • Orion... what's the shorthand for assault carrier? AC? ACV? Just standard CV?
    • Marathons and Halcyons are already known (CA and C respectively).
    • For that matter, so are Phoenix-class colony/support ships (CFV).
    • CFM is for Springhill-class mining ships (speaking of, I wonder if we'll ever get those in HFB).
    • Ammunition transports are designated 'AE'.
As for post-war UNSC craft:
    • Strident heavy frigates should have something differentiating them from the wartime classes, so as to prevent confusion. A Strident can go 1v1 with Covenant capitals and win, while a Paris, Charon, or Stalwart... can't (understatement). Perhaps 'H' for heavy, or 'S' as a general mark of post-war status?
    • Poseidon light carriers... well, that's easy, CVL.
    • Autumn heavy cruisers: CAH (Cruiser, Armored, Heavy)? SCA?
    • Vindication light battleships*: BB. Or BBL. Maybe even just 'B'. Hell, 'CC' (or SCC, due to being a post-war class) would also work, because battlecruisers.
  • Infinity: Already known, INF.
*Little nitpick here. Why not build upgraded Valiants instead of introducing the all-new design of the Vindication? They come out to the same thing in the end - super-heavy cruisers over light battleships. And given how the Valiant uses the standard construction model for the UNSC cruiser line, one wouldn't have to retool a shipyard in order to construct a 'light battleship', as is the case with the Vindication.

Great job with this week's Canon Fodder, though.
You might watch TMNT in a variety of different styles and artistic fidelities, but as long as Michelangelo has nun-chucks and appropriate orange accents, you've pretty much got him nailed. :-)
You mean "read" and with nunchaku and appropriate red accents. That's right, Grim, I'm going full old-school.
ODST 5723 wrote:
You might watch TMNT in a variety of different styles and artistic fidelities, but as long as Michelangelo has nun-chucks and appropriate orange accents, you've pretty much got him nailed. :-)
You mean "read" and with nunchaku and appropriate red accents. That's right, Grim, I'm going full old-school.
Lol can't argue there.
Ezekie1 wrote:
TSForrest wrote:
Imrane 117 wrote:
Regarding the unknown species in the Milky Way... It makes me remember the unknown spaceship that crashed on Installation 04 in the Halo CEA terminals. What species could be so advanced at the time... ? (~40,000 BCE, if I remember correctly, that's a long time before the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili became spacefaring species...)

I believe that the San'Shyuum were space faring before 100,000 BCE, unless I misunderstood what happened in the Forerunner Trilogy books. I also thought that the San'Shyuum were on the Human capital world of Charum Hakkor when the Master Builder test fired the first of the original 12 bigger Halo's. That was what destroyed the human's capital world, all the human and San'Shyuum still there, the Primordial's time lock prison, and all the Precursor Star Roads and other artifacts. I also remember a blockade of the San'Shyuum home system, isolating the San'Shyuum to their two worlds in that system, from around 100,000 BCE at the end of the Human-Forerunner War to around 90,000 BCE, just a few years before the pinnacle moments of the Forerunner-Flood War when the 7 new Halo's (smaller but more powerful) were fired to end the war... if my memory serves me correctly. If I have any of this wrong, please feel free to correct me. I prefer accuracy over politeness concerning corrections to the information I offer. There are so many details, and I don't think it's feasible to get the full understanding without discussion, such as this. I just hope I can get my new account above the 2 posts a day limit, so I can participate in more discussions.
Your understanding of the Forerunner Trilogy is mostly accurate, though I'm not sure if Charum Hakkor was inhabited at the time of testing, as the Ancient Human empire was long dismantled before the test. I also recall the plot stressing, that the test fire on San 'Shyuum home soil was the first on living beings. I could be wrong.

I think you misunderstood the query.

Imrane 117 was wondering what species could have been space faring 40,000 years after activation of the Halo array.
It could possibly, somehow, turn out to be San 'Shyuum. However, their pre-activation status doesn't count for much, all civilisations were wiped clean 100,000 years ago.
Thanks for the clarification. Now that you mentioned it, I remember the Master Builder first testing the Halo's after destroying the Didact's ship.
About the space faring species 40k BCE... my first thought was the San'Shyuum, but then I started to doubt that thought. If they have tons of Forerunner artifacts on their home world, and had possession of a Forerunner key ship as well, they could have been space faring before they started to avoid non-organic technology. However, if the ship that crash landed on the Installation 03 40k years ago had been built by a race that based their technology on Forerunner designs, then he might have recognized some aspect of it. 343 Guilty Spark almost immediately recognized the PoA as "Reclaimer" technology. He had enough time to study the crashed, unidentified ship while building that quarantine structure around it. I would think he would have recognized something about it if it was built based on recovered Forerunner tech. So, I think it must be some new race, unless the Kig-yar were space faring that long ago, well before the Covenant was formed and assimilated the Kig-yar into their "collective". When someone describes a race as "meddling", the Kig-yar are my first thought, but I have absolutely nothing to back it up. I think it would be absolutely awesome if a few ancient humans had survived and escaped the Forerunner cleansing of the Galaxy, and they turned out to be the "meddlers". However, I sincerely doubt that. I think ancient humans only survive in the form of a Gais planted by the Librarian.
erickyboo wrote:
Hi!
Didn't get first aww..
I really like the ships! Big fan of the destroyer! I like the info! I've also been drawing an Epoch but not done yet, fits nicely with this week's theme.

I like the inclusion of Red Horse scans and stuff.

As for tales from slipspace? Looking forward to it. And seems like we're going to have different art styles for it. Well, I suppose you do know our concerns. I wonder where that image is from oo,
The beauty of projects like these is that you can apply a universal stylistic treatment to a particular story without necessarily "stepping on" things from a canonical perspective. Think about "Second Sunrise over New Mombasa" from the Halo Graphic Novel, where a consistent - and very divergent - style was used, but doesn't necessarily inform hard and fast visual identities. You might watch TMNT in a variety of different styles and artistic fidelities, but as long as Michelangelo has nun-chucks and appropriate orange accents, you've pretty much got him nailed. :-)

And trust me, I know your concerns lol.

<3
Grim
Alright. Yay.
Yeah, second sunrise above New Mombassa certainly was unique in its style. It also introduced the beloved Benjamin Giraud.
I'll probably disappoint you by telling you that I don't think I've ever watched TNMT.
But speaking of visuals and art styles, I put up a drawing of the Epoch class heavy carrier, it's up on archive thread. It goes well with this week's cannon fodder too.
SC Matt 7 wrote:
Ah, the Valiant-class and CPV-class. Two of my favorite Halo starship designs. I'm curious Grim, what would the hull classification for the Valiant-class be? Since the Marathon-class is a Heavy Cruiser with CA as its classification, would the "Super" Heavy Cruiser be CB (Large Cruiser) or CC (Battlecruiser)?
I would hope that it would be CC, since that could double as 'command cruiser' as well.
Maybe CB for Valiants that didn't receive the command suite upgrade?

On that note:
    • Epoch could be designated as CVH, for heavy carrier.
    • Punic-class... well, I used to call them CVSH ('carrier vessel, superheavy'... and yes I know that the CV in modern times is shorthand for 'cruiser, voler', but it's been nearly 500 years since then, so surely it could change by then?), but the Canon Fodder entry refers to them as Space Control Vehicles, so I guess the canonical classification is SCV.
    • Orion... what's the shorthand for assault carrier? AC? ACV? Just standard CV?
    • Marathons and Halcyons are already known (CA and C respectively).
Carriers really don't need to be given a unique hull symbol according to their weight. The only exception has ever been light carriers and that's simply because they serve a drastically different purpose at times than the larger fleet carriers. It's as much political and economical as it is functional. Light carriers (CVL) prevalence in the US Navy with the Independence and Saipan classes was out of necessity than need, a need which was supplanted to great effect by the purpose-built escort carriers. They were predominantly built originally as cruisers converted as a stopgap measure when fleet carriers as the Essex-class took so long to construct in the first year of the Pacific War. Modern light carriers are the result of demanding yet strict defense budgets for nations that cannot afford the leviathan supercarriers that the U.S. Navy is centered around. Their form and displacement are synonymous with the operation of STOVL aircraft such as the Harrier and Lightning II jump jet strike fighters, as well as rotary-wing and tiltrotor aircraft, negating the need for large flight decks with space for catapults and arresting gear. Over half the carriers in service today exclusively operate STOVL or VTOL (helicopter/tiltrotor) aircraft and most under construction or planned are of this type.

The 64,000-ton Midway (CV-41; 1945) and the ~100,000-ton Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72; 1989) served alongside each other in the fleet, and as noted, the only designation modifier (CVN) is attributed to Lincoln's nuclear powerplant. Otherwise they carried out much of the same functions as fleet carriers with the exception of Midway's inability to host fleet air defense fighters (F-14) and fixed-wing antisubmarine warfare aircraft (S-3). "Space Control Vehicle" may be a loose reference to the "Sea Control Ship" program from the 1970s, with the final product being the Spanish Principe de Asturias and the earliest "Harrier carriers" (Invincible, Wasp, Giuseppe Garibaldi, et al.). Given everything else has taken after the U.S. Navy HCS, it's likely that the "CV" base for carriers remains, however SCV could have been a brief designation since the greater UNSC fleet follows the WWII-era and the 1975-present American systems.

The term "assault carrier" is a popular alternative for amphibious assault ships, vessels embarking naval infantry to be deployed aboard air and sea craft. The most ubiquitous of the type are the LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock), LHA (Landing Helicopter Assault), and LPH (Landing Platform Helicopter). The Orion-class assault carrier, for example, could be designated as a LVD or Landing Vertical Dock. Landing signifies her as a ship designed primarily to support Fleet Marine Forces in orbital landings, Vertical represents the vertical-lift capability of their embarked Marine aircraft, and Dock denotes the ability to embark and operate ship-to-shore connectors. Alternatively, as many ships have some orbital landing supporting functions, the use of "CVV" could be used reflecting their multi-role capability within the Fleet.

Halcyon-class ships are light cruisers, so with the predominate hull symbol classification they would be designated CL. Heavy cruisers are CA, as evident with the Marathon-class with the subsequent Autumn-class likely to follow suit. The Valiant-class, as "super-heavy cruisers" aren't necessarily battlecruisers so CC may not be a viable designation. Super-heavy cruisers are analogous to the "cruiser killers" of the Second World War, classified as "large cruisers" or CB. Battlecruisers following the First World War typically ceased to have a viable niche role when armor became lighter and battleships gained some legs, thus introducing the "fast battleships" behemoths like Iowa and Yamato. Now it's a sensationalized term that could only truly be applied to the likes of the Russian (ex-Soviet) Kirov-class given their size and complement compared to her American contemporaries, the now retired Virginia-class CGN and the active Ticonderoga-class. So the Valiant-class could easily be a CB, or given refits to accommodate flag staff and a command suite (such as Everest), a CC, or command cruiser.

Today the lines between displacement and even types is blurred so there's no strict definition. That gets to be a lot less relevant in the 26th century when ships are constrained only by what space fleets need in a ship, what they can effectively operate, and what amount of raw materials they can acquire. Heavy and Light classifications in this circumstance become indicative of their armor plating and what weapons they're adorned with, or in a carrier's case, how many aircraft they can embark. I would instead omit that archaic system. The Marathon-class cruiser would be reclassified from CA to CS, or strike cruiser, reflecting their anti-ship and land attack (NGFS) capabilities. The Halcyon-class, seemingly an air warfare commander ship for carrier groups, would be reclassified from CL to CA or CD, an air defense cruiser.
I know this may not have anything to do with the current conversation but I wonder if we can get a Canon Fodder on how UNSC ship designs come into fruition, either that or Human Space Colonies in Halo. I know some are in Asteroids but, Torque looks something like a Stanford Torus mixed with a Bernal Sphere.
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