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Canon Fodder 7-23-15: Ship Happens

OP GrimBrother One

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In this week's Canon Fodder, we dive deeper into the newly released tabletop game, Halo: Fleet Battles.

Read more here...

<3
Grim
YAY TRAFALGAR!
Grim I bow down to your infinite foresight and planning. Why did I question thou?

thanks though Grim for spotlighting the game and providing lore on my favourite part of the Halo canon
Could you shed some light on when we will be able to watch the Halo comic con panel?
I really want to get halo fleet battles! I was actually talking about fleet battles a few nights ago on the old republic and... managed to convince a guy to buy, not one, but two sets! He was really interested in it after I chatted about it.

It seems like a great medium and in light of Reach/the fall of reach stuff, I think it's great that this campaign seems to be exploring that. Rho seems like an interesting character!

If I get one, I hope I'll be able to do a good job on painting. It wouldn't be the first time I've painted UNSC ships before, I painted my own hand-made wooden ones.

I really like the ORS design, hope to see more great models!
Trafalgar?! Valiant Cruisers?! Long lost answers to the Fall of Reach continuity?! What is a Maethrillian?! Cannot wait for all this.
Trafalgar?! Valiant Cruisers?! Long lost answers to the Fall of Reach continuity?! What is a Maethrillian?! Cannot wait for all this.
It's the name of the forerunner capital.
The UNSC Trafalgar and the Valiant-class Super Heavy Cruiser. It's about time, especially when it comes to the Trafalgar. I was really disappointed that we didn't get to see her in Halo Reach. You know what would be neat? A big book of Starships. Something like the Essential Visual Guides, but only involving UNSC and Covenant Starships. Another thing that would be neat for this game, is Insurrectionist Starships, like the captured and modified UNSC Frigates and perhaps the "never before seen" ships that fought at The Battle of Psi Serpentis.
Trafalgar?! Valiant Cruisers?! Long lost answers to the Fall of Reach continuity?! What is a Maethrillian?! Cannot wait for all this.
Maethrillian is the oldest structures in the forerunner ecumene. Comparable to congress building in terms of political purpose. The planet sized station also housed multiple slipspace portals that linked to a variety of worlds, including the Ark.
Who is designing Spartan Game's ships? Because the Valiant is, uh, not so great. It looks like someone smashed the frigate on the front of a stretched Halcyon. Very odd for a ship classed as Super Heavy to be using an engine section from the smallest ship to ever be classed a cruiser.
erickyboo wrote:
Trafalgar?! Valiant Cruisers?! Long lost answers to the Fall of Reach continuity?! What is a Maethrillian?! Cannot wait for all this.
Maethrillian is the oldest structures in the forerunner ecumene. Comparable to congress building the planet sized station also housed multiple slipspace portals that linked to a variety of worlds, including the Ark.

Trafalgar?! Valiant Cruisers?! Long lost answers to the Fall of Reach continuity?! What is a Maethrillian?! Cannot wait for all this.
It's the name of the forerunner capital.
Ah, good knowledge, thanks for that.
Unikraken wrote:
Who is designing Spartan Game's ships? Because the Valiant is, uh, not so great. It looks like someone smashed the frigate on the front of a stretched Halcyon. Very odd for a ship classed as Super Heavy to be using an engine section from the smallest ship to ever be classed a cruiser.
Halcyon is honestly not that much smaller than the heavy cruisers, Marathon and Autumn. As for the bow of Valiant, as I mentioned to you before, ships of all types use similar superstructures. There's not much sense in redesigning a component from scratch when it already does what you want perfectly.

Cruisers classifications of light, heavy, and super-heavy (alternatively, a large or battle cruiser) in the UNSC aren't the same as their nautical counterparts of the Second World War. Hulls generally have similar dimensions and their only defining characteristics are armor and systems, and as such, their role within the Fleet.

The modern Ticonderoga-class cruiser of the U.S. Navy uses the same hull as the now-retired Spruance-class destroyer. Ticonderoga fulfills command duties for surface groups and serves as the air defense ship, providing anti-air warfare capability for Carrier Strike Groups and theater ballistic missile defense with AEGIS. She can also strike targets ashore with Tomahawk land attack missiles in support of Marines. Spruance was a multi-role vessel primarily designed to provide the anti-submarine defense for carriers. However she was still more than capable of prosecuting ASuW, AAW, and NGFS missions for a CSG, SAG, or ESG.

Same hull, same capability, different specialties. That's why you see little difference nowadays in the size of frigates, destroyers, and cruisers, as well as with frigates and destroyers in the UNSC. The only reason I could imagine cruisers needing to be bigger than the likes of Paris or Halberd is because Halcyon needed to be larger for the sake of ship and crew self-sustainability during the 25th century on long, deep space deployments, thus the tradition conditioned into the Great War with Marathon.

I understand that you don't like these designs, and that's totally fine, but it's not like this stuff isn't rooted in precedent. I doubt they're maliciously cutting corners for the sake of being lazy. Mind you that they'll likely have to translate these designs from plastic to digital one day.
Grizzlei wrote:
YAY TRAFALGAR!
OUR PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!
The UNSC Trafalgar and the Valiant-class Super Heavy Cruiser. It's about time, especially when it comes to the Trafalgar. I was really disappointed that we didn't get to see her in Halo Reach. You know what would be neat? A big book of Starships. Something like the Essential Visual Guides, but only involving UNSC and Covenant Starships. Another thing that would be neat for this game, is Insurrectionist Starships, like the captured and modified UNSC Frigates and perhaps the "never before seen" ships that fought at The Battle of Psi Serpentis.
I love you, NIhilus. (You don't happen to be known as Lord Nihilus elsewhere do you?) Having a big book all about starships with calcs and all would be awesome. I'd prefer UNSC, Covenant, and Forerunner because we know a lot of Forerunner ship classes but not about them and only know what like 3 or 4 look like.
Unikraken wrote:
Who is designing Spartan Game's ships? Because the Valiant is, uh, not so great. It looks like someone smashed the frigate on the front of a stretched Halcyon. Very odd for a ship classed as Super Heavy to be using an engine section from the smallest ship to ever be classed a cruiser.
http://www.halopedia.org/images/4/4d/HFB_ValiantClass.png
Looks like a Marathon and Infinity had a baby.
Rho Rho Rho your boat...

Anyone else thinking this?
Grizzlei wrote:
Unikraken wrote:
Who is designing Spartan Game's ships? Because the Valiant is, uh, not so great. It looks like someone smashed the frigate on the front of a stretched Halcyon. Very odd for a ship classed as Super Heavy to be using an engine section from the smallest ship to ever be classed a cruiser.
SNIP Massive Important and Thoughtful Text
Whilst I personally never imagined the Valiant looking the way it does (instead imagining each ship to be a bit more unique), I'm not surprised at its look and quiet enjoy it. Everything that Grizzlei wrote makes sense and gives us an idea as to what to expect for future releases.

If we want some more unique looking ships we just have to wait until they start doing the post war ships as everything produced after the war got an overhaul in design to accommodate new technologies and simpler designing.

Grizzlei, I always thought they reason there is vastly different sizing in Frigates/Destroyers to Cruisers was due to the size of the MAC they carried.
Grizzlei wrote:
Unikraken wrote:
Who is designing Spartan Game's ships? Because the Valiant is, uh, not so great. It looks like someone smashed the frigate on the front of a stretched Halcyon. Very odd for a ship classed as Super Heavy to be using an engine section from the smallest ship to ever be classed a cruiser.
Huge snip of text
I really feel like this is a cop-out response and I really hope it's not the official. They have the opportunity to define iconic ships from the series. People who are going to buy H: FB are the people who've read about Admiral Cole several times, it's not the illiterate kids screaming profanities on xbox live. They have the chance to create unique and interesting ships that tens of thousands of people have imagined for years. Instead they're taking models they've previously made for the game, frigate and Halcyon, stretching parts of the model, adding some panels and wiping their hands of it. It's boring and APPEARS to be really lazy to anyone that's spent any time examining these ships. I'm really disappointed by their approach to important parts of the lore and iconic ships.

When this game was announced I was incredibly excited to buy it and tell my friends, but nearly every design they get to create new has been lackluster.
Always such a downer when the latest ship design you've lauded is basically two cas carriers kissing. Yet here you are criticizing 343i for using pre-existing elements... again... Bye Felicia.

As for the info drop. Love it!

Love the hint at this artifact hunting warlord. I hope we hear more about Rho soon. Also, who lets this guy run around doing his own thing with a 27 KM warship? Sounds like a Ministry nightmare for some low level San 'Shyuum. And that he's hunting for The Capital. I want to know so much more.
The UNSC Trafalgar and the Valiant-class Super Heavy Cruiser. It's about time, especially when it comes to the Trafalgar. I was really disappointed that we didn't get to see her in Halo Reach. You know what would be neat? A big book of Starships. Something like the Essential Visual Guides, but only involving UNSC and Covenant Starships. Another thing that would be neat for this game, is Insurrectionist Starships, like the captured and modified UNSC Frigates and perhaps the "never before seen" ships that fought at The Battle of Psi Serpentis.
I second that. We could finally learn the true armaments of the Supercarriers.
Unikraken wrote:
I really feel like this is a cop-out response and I really hope it's not the official.
Why would it be official? I don't work for 343 Industries. I just know about naval shipbuilding, systems, tactics, and history.
Quote:
They have the opportunity to define iconic ships from the series. People who are going to buy H: FB are the people who've read about Admiral Cole several times, it's not the illiterate kids screaming profanities on xbox live. They have the chance to create unique and interesting ships that tens of thousands of people have imagined for years. Instead they're taking models they've previously made for the game, frigate and Halcyon, stretching parts of the model, adding some panels and wiping their hands of it. It's boring and APPEARS to be really lazy to anyone that's spent any time examining these ships. I'm really disappointed by their approach to important parts of the lore and iconic ships.

When this game was announced I was incredibly excited to buy it and tell my friends, but nearly every design they get to create new has been lackluster.
It's those very fans who know about the scruffy looking admiral from Mark Twain, Missouri who should be able to understand these designs. They aren't built for some kid who only wants to use the coolest looking kit to pwn teh newbs brah in Rumble Pit. Most people who will play Fleet Battles are the people who know the difference between a MAC, a SMAC, and an Onager and why the latter of the bunch should be used on more ships. They're the sort of people who can understand a fictional rationale for why UNSC ships all look so similar and why Covenant designs generally don't.

The reason why people love the Iowa-class battleship is because its design exudes power and influence with its nine 16-inch guns and a wide assortment of 5-inch dual purpose guns, 40mm Bofors, and 20mm Oerlikons. However, did you know that its design strayed very little from the two preceding classes, North Carolina and South Dakota, and was largely the basis for its successor, the cancelled Montana? Approximately 330 destroyers across the Fletcher, Allen M. Sumner, and Gearing classes were built between 1941 and 1945 constituting the vast bulk of the U.S. Navy's surface combatant force during the Second World War and into the first half of the Cold War. They barely look any different.

Our massive fleet carriers, from Kitty Hawk to George H.W. Bush, look almost exactly alike with one truly notable exception on Enterprise and her Borg cube of an island. The future supercarrier class, Gerald R. Ford, is the most radical departure for carriers since the late 1950s and even then it's obvious that the design was carried on from legacy ships. The Navy's next generation frigates are simply upscaled littoral combat ships.

Most UNSC designs are meant to fight a war, a war which needed thousands of new hulls thrown into the heat of battle every year. Shipbuilders in the real world aren't worried about what looks good or how to distinguish their design from its predecessors. Unlike with fighter jets, in the shipbuilding world function will always trump pure aesthetics. They aren't trying to make wholly unique designs to look cool for a fan-made total conversion mod. I'm glad 343 Industries is taking an entirely realistic approach to this.
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