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Ezio Wolf wrote:
Underneath that Spartan IV armor those guys are just normal ODST, ONI, or Marines.
What does this mean? I continue to be baffled when people make this reductionist statement towards the S-IVs. "Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs are just civilian children in armor" is equally applicable, and equally disingenuous.
Making statements like that is completely ignoring all the other components that goes into making a Spartan-IV. It ain't just getting pricked by a few needles and done.

Ezio Wolf wrote:
Locke was an amazing ONI soldier dealing with the things he has in his career at ONI, but he doesn't have any of the augmentations that chief has. I mean one of the augments chief got was to make his bones practically steel.
Their augmentations are closer than you think. S-IVs have nearly indestructible bones as well, and GEN.2 armor makes the lesser augments irrelevant.
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body. As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement. S II augmentations were crazy invasive and therefore is why whoever survived had incredible power, which is much higher than a S IVs power.

Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans, but you cant deny the fact that the S IIs are just better killing machines. So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body.
The Official Spartan Field Manual goes into detail about the S-IVs augmentation procedure. It is still very invasive, but there seems to be a misconception that because augments can now be administered to adults that the procedure is rather trivial.

Ezio Wolf wrote:
As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement.
  • "The Spartan's bones are infused with skeletal fullerene lattices,[5] regarded as "tougher than steel", which makes them virtually unbreakable and allows survival in harder impacts.[6] The joints are also reinforced or replaced while the bones are lengthened, making the subject several centimeters taller than they originally were. The reinforcement is necessary as without it, simple actions such as jumping would result in the bones disintegrating due to the strain from the strengthened muscles.[11] The subject's ligaments are reconstructed during the procedures."
  • "Muscles are subjected to induced muscular growth and injected with a material that allows them to work harder without breaking the Spartan's skeleton. Subjects also undergo muscle grafting.[6][5] The augmentations also give them an enhanced muscle memory, which makes observing and learning combat techniques much easier.[12]"
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans,
I assure you I'm not mad in the slightest. Simply having discourse on the forums.
Also, the Spartan-IVs aren't my favorite, I just feel they get the short end of the stick by a lot of fans.
Ezio Wolf wrote:
So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
Not sure how correcting misinformation is being a negative Nancy. It's simply... correcting misinformation.
Obviously Chief but I do think Locke is cool, I actually liked playing as him in Halo 5 as it’s an interesting character and decently built too just not good enough to be better than master chief, and tbh I don’t think any character can really keep up with the OG ever.
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body. As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement. S II augmentations were crazy invasive and therefore is why whoever survived had incredible power, which is much higher than a S IVs power.

Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans, but you cant deny the fact that the S IIs are just better killing machines. So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
You should read the second issue of Halo:Initiation,and Project Orchid.
That would clear up your gross misunderstandings about the S-IV's augmentations.
Kosmic3386 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body. As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement. S II augmentations were crazy invasive and therefore is why whoever survived had incredible power, which is much higher than a S IVs power.

Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans, but you cant deny the fact that the S IIs are just better killing machines. So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
You should read the second issue of Halo:Initiation,and Project Orchid.
That would clear up your gross misunderstandings about the S-IV's augmentations.
I think you are misunderstanding yourself. Project Orchid itself says this

While the SPARTAN-IV augmentations enhance the subjects' strength and speed, the improvements in these areas are not as extensive as in the two preceding programs[4]and their technological underpinnings are considerably different.....and the second generationof Mjolnir armor, standard issue to all Spartan-IVs, is able to effectively bridge the physiological gap between them and the earlier generations due to its superior physical enhancement.

Project Orchid litterally says that most of its augmentations are tech based so they can try to keep up with the S IIs and S IIIs

So my statement stands with no misunderstanding.
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Kosmic3386 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body. As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement. S II augmentations were crazy invasive and therefore is why whoever survived had incredible power, which is much higher than a S IVs power.

Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans, but you cant deny the fact that the S IIs are just better killing machines. So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
You should read the second issue of Halo:Initiation,and Project Orchid.
That would clear up your gross misunderstandings about the S-IV's augmentations.
I think you are misunderstanding yourself. Project Orchid itself says this

While the SPARTAN-IV augmentations enhance the subjects' strength and speed, the improvements in these areas are not as extensive as in the two preceding programs[4]and their technological underpinnings are considerably different.....and the second generationof Mjolnir armor, standard issue to all Spartan-IVs, is able to effectively bridge the physiological gap between them and the earlier generations due to its superior physical enhancement.

Project Orchid litterally says that most of its augmentations are tech based so they can try to keep up with the S IIs and S IIIs

So my statement stands with no misunderstanding.
You claimed that their skeletons were simply reinforced and nowhere near the S-IIs and S-IIIs.That 's blatantly wrong.Their skeletons are just as durable as any Spartan II or III.
What other "tech" based augmentations did they receive besides these 3?

Torpet datacluster installation-The subject is given a specialized neural implant—taking the form of a torpet datacluster—capable of interfacing with an artificial intelligence. The neural interface controller extends from the dataport at the base of the skull to the midbrain.

Other-Subjects are implanted with a handful of tiny, durable biomonitoring implants,one of which is installed near the fourth and fifth lumbar vertebrae,designed to aid medical teams remotely monitor the Spartan's health and performance.Subjects are also implanted with electronic locators to allow the United Nations Space Command to track each Spartan.

None of these buffs them physically btw.
The fullerene lattices that the Spartan IVs receive are as durable as the previous generations in a different way, but have a big consequence in the short run because in Orchid its says that the fullerene is infused with the bone which is not good because it restricts the white blood cells in the skeleton and keeps the skeleton from working as an organ. Where as the Spartan IIs have a Carbide Ceramic Ossification which is the same durability and it is only attached to the surface of the skeleton which allows it to still properly function as an organ for a long time because carbon is still a porous material. Also I say "simply" for the Spartan IVs because it is a simple procedure compared to what the Spartan IIs went through.

As for the tech augmentations they had those handful of Implants for Bio monitoring and the neural implant for AI interface as you stated.

As for the other tech they have had multiple organs replaced with synthetic organs that could essentially allow then to eat trees and survive like they had a full course meal, have the lung capacity to breath pure methane for a solid hour with ease, and have a synthetic polymer weave that assisted the fake replacement organs. All synthetic enhancements are considered tech base augmentations since none of the current organs has any of the old organs in it. It is a replacement not a modification of the original organ.

Then the armor they are using which is the GEN2 Mjolnir has alot of bells whistles to assist the Spartans to help them "keep up" with the previous generations. These suits have quite a few features in them that the Spartan IIs and IIIs did not have.

Here are a couple others:
Spartans are also subjected to K5.2 hemoescutcheon, and implanted with circulatory shunts and intelli-fibrin acclimation (Tech part), likely aiding in the healing of wounds.
An intestinal bioreactor is also implanted (Tech part), and the subject is given a gut microbiota refresh.
john although he is 200 years old LOL
John would easily defeat Locke
as once chief said
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OMtn71KyKw
I gonna pretend this question is more for fun and not serius
It might be unpopular opinion but I think Locke would win, now hear me out. Right now Locke is in his prime and is not fighting emotional distress. John just had Cortana betray him and he saw Dr. Halsey for the first time in a while. Now if we are talking about the John from the Halo CE, John could easily hand Locke's, am I allowed to say a**, in case I am not I will say butt, so John could easily hand Locke's butt to him.
Kosmic3386 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Kosmic3386 wrote:
Ezio Wolf wrote:
Yes the S IVs had a couple augmentations but most of their enhancements were tech based and less traumatizing to the body. As for the Skeleton it just got reinforced it is nothing near what the S IIs had to get, and neither is the muscle enhancement. S II augmentations were crazy invasive and therefore is why whoever survived had incredible power, which is much higher than a S IVs power.

Look man I'm not trying to make you mad or anything and it is completely ok if the S IV generation is your favorite generation of Spartans, but you cant deny the fact that the S IIs are just better killing machines. So please stop coming at people being a negative Nancy just because your preference is not the majority preference.
You should read the second issue of Halo:Initiation,and Project Orchid.
That would clear up your gross misunderstandings about the S-IV's augmentations.
I think you are misunderstanding yourself. Project Orchid itself says this

While the SPARTAN-IV augmentations enhance the subjects' strength and speed, the improvements in these areas are not as extensive as in the two preceding programs[4]and their technological underpinnings are considerably different.....and the second generationof Mjolnir armor, standard issue to all Spartan-IVs, is able to effectively bridge the physiological gap between them and the earlier generations due to its superior physical enhancement.

Project Orchid litterally says that most of its augmentations are tech based so they can try to keep up with the S IIs and S IIIs

So my statement stands with no misunderstanding.
You claimed that their skeletons were simply reinforced and nowhere near the S-IIs and S-IIIs.That 's blatantly wrong.Their skeletons are just as durable as any Spartan II or III.
Actually we do have proof that the skeleton of Spartan 4s are not as durable as Spartan 2s
From Armory Amore: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-armory-amore

"High-bandwidth interfaces can be paired with advanced expert systems to augment – and even bypass – the human motor system, reducing the physiological stress of high-performance combat exoskeletons to levels that do not require extensive skeletal reinforcement. This innovation, initially a secondary line of research during Project: MJOLNIR’s early days, was crucial for SPARTAN-III and SPARTAN-IV."
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EvilKeny28 wrote:
Actually we do have proof that the skeleton of Spartan 4s are not as durable as Spartan 2s
From Armory Amore: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-armory-amore

"High-bandwidth interfaces can be paired with advanced expert systems to augment – and even bypass – the human motor system, reducing the physiological stress of high-performance combat exoskeletons to levels that do not require extensive skeletal reinforcement. This innovation, initially a secondary line of research during Project: MJOLNIR’s early days, was crucial for SPARTAN-III and SPARTAN-IV."
An interesting tidbit. But it seems to contradict, or at the least be unnecessary, when Project Orchid lists that The Spartan's bones are infused with skeletal fullerene lattices,[5] regarded as "tougher than steel", which makes them virtually unbreakable and allows survival in harder impacts.The Field Manual lists that the bones are also strengthened with Titanium-A and composite sheathing.

It's also weird that Spartan-IIIs are listed in there, as their bones are also considered virtually unbreakable.

Perhaps it can be debated the use of 'required' in the sense that the Spartans doesn't need to have extensive skeletal augmentation for their armor, but still decide to do so because of their muscle enhancement. Something to muse over.
tL Armada wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Actually we do have proof that the skeleton of Spartan 4s are not as durable as Spartan 2s
From Armory Amore: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-armory-amore

"High-bandwidth interfaces can be paired with advanced expert systems to augment – and even bypass – the human motor system, reducing the physiological stress of high-performance combat exoskeletons to levels that do not require extensive skeletal reinforcement. This innovation, initially a secondary line of research during Project: MJOLNIR’s early days, was crucial for SPARTAN-III and SPARTAN-IV."
An interesting tidbit. But it seems to contradict, or at the least be unnecessary, when Project Orchid lists that The Spartan's bones are infused with skeletal fullerene lattices,[5] regarded as "tougher than steel", which makes them virtually unbreakable and allows survival in harder impacts.The Field Manual lists that the bones are also strengthened with Titanium-A and composite sheathing.

It's also weird that Spartan-IIIs are listed in there, as their bones are also considered virtually unbreakable.

Perhaps it can be debated the use of 'required' in the sense that the Spartans doesn't need to have extensive skeletal augmentation for their armor, but still decide to do so because of their muscle enhancement. Something to muse over.
Yes I was also confused by this.
I've rationalised it by thinking that 'virtually unbreakable' is a catch all term to mean very durable. Also we do know that the three Spartan generations are not equal when it comes to the potency of their augmentations, so this coupled with Armory Amore's article is evidence that the three Spartan generations do not have the same degree of bone strength.
While I agree that the bone augmentation of the Spartan 4s does sound impressive, remember that the Spartan 4s also receive more muscular augmentations than the previous generation and yet are still weaker than them.
The Spartan 4s receive muscular injections, muscle grafting and a material that allows their muscles to exert more force without damaging itself, in comparaison a Spartan 3 only receives the muscular density drug.

At the end of the day there isn't anything that directly contradicts the article, so until this changes we are stuck with this.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
tL Armada wrote:
Yes I was also confused by this.
I've rationalised it by thinking that 'virtually unbreakable' is a catch all term to mean very durable. Also we do know that the three Spartan generations are not equal when it comes to the potency of their augmentations, so this coupled with Armory Amore's article is evidence that the three Spartan generations do not have the same degree of bone strength.
While I agree that the bone augmentation of the Spartan 4s does sound impressive, remember that the Spartan 4s also receive more muscular augmentations than the previous generation and yet are still weaker than them.
The Spartan 4s receive muscular injections, muscle grafting and a material that allows their muscles to exert more force without damaging itself, in comparaison a Spartan 3 only receives the muscular density drug.

At the end of the day there isn't anything that directly contradicts the article, so until this changes we are stuck with this.
I definitely agree with your assessment. 'Contradict' was too strong a word, but I do think it was rather odd how the wording for the article made it seem almost mandatory when the S-IIIs received the same bone enhancement as the S-IIs (albeit differently) and the S-IVs have three different bone strengthening measures that I believe would make their bones close to the preceding Spartans. But you do raise a good point about their muscle enhancements.

S-IIIs specifically makes me raise an eyebrow, as it was always my impression that Nylund strongly inferred that the S-IIIs were as potent as their forebears. He went as far as to say that their augmentations were "a quantum leap over the S-II's".
is there any competition 117.
tL Armada wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
tL Armada wrote:
Yes I was also confused by this.
I've rationalised it by thinking that 'virtually unbreakable' is a catch all term to mean very durable. Also we do know that the three Spartan generations are not equal when it comes to the potency of their augmentations, so this coupled with Armory Amore's article is evidence that the three Spartan generations do not have the same degree of bone strength.
While I agree that the bone augmentation of the Spartan 4s does sound impressive, remember that the Spartan 4s also receive more muscular augmentations than the previous generation and yet are still weaker than them.
The Spartan 4s receive muscular injections, muscle grafting and a material that allows their muscles to exert more force without damaging itself, in comparaison a Spartan 3 only receives the muscular density drug.

At the end of the day there isn't anything that directly contradicts the article, so until this changes we are stuck with this.
I definitely agree with your assessment. 'Contradict' was too strong a word, but I do think it was rather odd how the wording for the article made it seem almost mandatory when the S-IIIs received the same bone enhancement as the S-IIs (albeit differently) and the S-IVs have three different bone strengthening measures that I believe would make their bones close to the preceding Spartans. But you do raise a good point about their muscle enhancements.

S-IIIs specifically makes me raise an eyebrow, as it was always my impression that Nylund strongly inferred that the S-IIIs were as potent as their forebears. He went as far as to say that their augmentations were "a quantum leap over the S-II's".
The position of a Spartan 3 relative to a Spartan 2 has always been a very ambiguous thing.
Ghost of Onyx never directly stated that the Spartan 3s had worst augmentations, and in fact the novel does have several moments that acknowledges the capabilities of the Spartan 3s such as them tearing the Covenant apart in CQC, Kurt calling Gamma the finest Spartans ever, more advanced augmentations.
However the fact that Spartan 3s were disposable shock troops that died in the hundred, coupled with their shorter size and less than ideal genes gave the community the impression that they were cheap knockoffs of the real thing.
It wasn't until Armory Amore, Glasslands, New Blood, and the Official Spartan Field Manual that we got a more concrete answer regarding their standing.
I do agree however that the articles words it very strangely.
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