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Cortana=Mendicant Bias

OP Galloglass505

So...I've noticed Cortana and Mendicant Bias have much in common. Both are advanced and unique A.I.'s and both have betrayed their creators for what they percieve to be the right reasons...or perhaps both were and are corrupted by the Logic Plague. Perhaps it is possible Cortana was corrupted by the Gravemind and the Domain (itself a Precursor Artifact) and now is in fact clearing the galaxies defenses for the coming or rather return of the Flood (or maybe even the Precursor survivors outside the Galaxy). Whether or not the Flood return in future Halo media, Cortana is still analogous to a modern day Mendicant Bias. She has betrayed her own kind she was designed to protect.
Are there similarities between Cortana and MB? Yes.
Do I think she's affected by the Logic Plague? No. The whole Logic Plague theory doesn't pan out as well as people would like; even if the galaxy as a whole is more susceptible to Flood attack due to the Created's offensive, it doesn't mean much when a single human could activate a single Halo and trigger a galactic destruction of the Flood just like back in the Forerunner-Flood War.
If the Precursors exist outside of space and time as the Forerunner Saga suggests, they're still around because they're constants.
The survivors of their avatar race are the Flood.
If the Flood had intended to consume the galaxy, it would have. It specifically spared ancient humanity and even explained to them why it spared them. It deliberately gave the Forerunners enough time to create the Halos, and it didn't even start using Neural Physics until the Forerunners were in the final stages of their plan to relocate all they could to the Arks. The Flood isn't actually pursuing what it claims is its ultimate goal, so I conclude that it is still pursuing the Precursors' stated goal, of maneuvering humanity to the point where they have the wisdom and moral character to hold the Mantle of Responsibility. I say all of this to point out that the Flood doesn't need the galaxy weakened by Cortana.
I suspect that Cortana is part of humanity's test of worth, and that humanity will have to make a great sacrifice to pass the test (probably losing the Infinity). I'm hoping the story of Halo 6 takes us to Maethrillian and we get to see some of the things Abaddon has been making in the last hundred-thousand years since he was forcefully rebooted.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
Chimera30 wrote:
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
Well then why do you think the flood retreated from humanity? Do you think we actually found a cure and the flood are lying now by saying they retreated to spare us to spread misinformation?
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Easy to say when it isn’t your species doomed to forever be in pain and suffering within the Flood.
Chimera30 wrote:
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
Well then why do you think the flood retreated from humanity? Do you think we actually found a cure and the flood are lying now by saying they retreated to spare us to spread misinformation?
You're talking about during the Forerunner-Flood War? Well that reason has already been described. The Flood were playing the long game and allowed the galaxy to believe that ancient humans had discovered some sort of cure, but this was a ploy to help the Flood further their goal of destroying the Forerunners. At the time, the Forerunners were the sole target of the Flood's ire; the rest of the galaxy was inconsequential, as equally worth killing as they were worth sparing. Sparing humanity and allowing the Forerunner's to temporarily think they had won was merely the first method the Flood used of influencing Forerunner politics and sowing seeds of discord within the Forerunner ecumene. Had the Flood successfully destroyed all the Forerunners (without having been killed off itself by the Halos), then it stands to reason that the rest of the galaxy would have quickly been assimilated, as its attention could be fully dedicated towards that function of unifying all life in the universe (which had temporarily taken a backseat to getting revenge on the Forerunners).

The Flood are the hate-filled, insane remains of the Precursors. Just because the Precursors intended to hand over the Mantle to humanity doesn't mean this perverted version of them intends the same. Priorities shift, minds change, and strong emotions often impede logical thought.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Easy to say when it isn’t your species doomed to forever be in pain and suffering within the Flood.
Well you can't deny that Halo is resoundingly anthropocentric. It wasn't my decision, that's just how it's written. The other species seemingly will prosper or suffer depending on how well humanity handles itself as the caretakers of the galaxy.
Chimera30 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
Well then why do you think the flood retreated from humanity? Do you think we actually found a cure and the flood are lying now by saying they retreated to spare us to spread misinformation?
You're talking about during the Forerunner-Flood War? Well that reason has already been described. The Flood were playing the long game and allowed the galaxy to believe that ancient humans had discovered some sort of cure, but this was a ploy to help the Flood further their goal of destroying the Forerunners. At the time, the Forerunners were the sole target of the Flood's ire; the rest of the galaxy was inconsequential, as equally worth killing as they were worth sparing. Sparing humanity and allowing the Forerunner's to temporarily think they had won was merely the first method the Flood used of influencing Forerunner politics and sowing seeds of discord within the Forerunner ecumene. Had the Flood successfully destroyed all the Forerunners (without having been killed off itself by the Halos), then it stands to reason that the rest of the galaxy would have quickly been assimilated, as its attention could be fully dedicated towards that function of unifying all life in the universe (which had temporarily taken a backseat to getting revenge on the Forerunners).

The Flood are the hate-filled, insane remains of the Precursors. Just because the Precursors intended to hand over the Mantle to humanity doesn't mean this perverted version of them intends the same. Priorities shift, minds change, and strong emotions often impede logical thought.
That does seem plausible. It isn't irrefutable but your response and interpretation does make sense. I especially agree with the flood being insane and hate filled and that their plans may have no resemblance to the original Precursor plan.

I don't see why the Flood would need to sow seeds of discord though. They could have brute forced the Forerunners to defeat/extinction. The shifty political manipulation doesn't make logical sense to me. The flood infected the fabric of space and time itself, why would they be concerned with something trivial like political maneuvering?
Chimera30 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
That does seem plausible. It isn't irrefutable but your response and interpretation does make sense. I especially agree with the flood being insane and hate filled and that their plans may have no resemblance to the original Precursor plan.

I don't see why the Flood would need to sow seeds of discord though. They could have brute forced the Forerunners to defeat/extinction. The shifty political manipulation doesn't make logical sense to me. The flood infected the fabric of space and time itself, why would they be concerned with something trivial like political maneuvering?
I have a couple of ideas on that.
  1. The Flood weren't at a stage powerful enough to take on the Forerunner's at the time of their first appearance, so they pretended to lose and pretended to have a weakness so that they could reform in secret and then strike back in greater force later (which they did, they returned almost 10,000 years after their first appearance). And then, when they did come back, the Forerunners started off by using the techniques that ancient humans and the Shan'Shyum had used, but the Flood decided to stop faking so those techniques didn't work. That would have given the Flood a strong push in the beginning for overtaking Forerunner territories.
  2. Rather than just destroy the Forerunners, the Flood wanted to humiliate them and make them realize their own arrogance before killing them. Like forcing confessions before execution. The Flood cause the Forerunners to turn against themselves, which had the benefit of weakening their forces but also could serve as a different kind of revenge. By the end of the war, the toll on the Forerunner ecumene was greater than just the loss of their lives. The Forerunners were crestfallen and felt themselves no longer deserving of the Mantle. The Flood inflicted despair and hopelessness (psychological warfare) upon the Forerunners through its plans, which is worse than just killing them on the battlefield.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Easy to say when it isn’t your species doomed to forever be in pain and suffering within the Flood.
Well you can't deny that Halo is resoundingly anthropocentric. It wasn't my decision, that's just how it's written. The other species seemingly will prosper or suffer depending on how well humanity handles itself as the caretakers of the galaxy.
It perplexes me that you never even speculate that humanity may not receive the Mantle. All the Primordial said is that humanity would be tested, no word on whether we'd pass or not. And we'd be tested when we are arrogant. Assuming the Mantle will just be given to us or that the Precursors are totally on our side sounds like the kind of arrogance that will doom humanity, no offense. Any future threats like the Created or the return of the Flood are not going to be solved by just humanity or any one species. Ancient humanity and the Forerunners learned that lesson.

But I suppose we can continue to go "Humanity -Yoink- yeah" until the Flood consumes us.
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Easy to say when it isn’t your species doomed to forever be in pain and suffering within the Flood.
Well you can't deny that Halo is resoundingly anthropocentric. It wasn't my decision, that's just how it's written. The other species seemingly will prosper or suffer depending on how well humanity handles itself as the caretakers of the galaxy.
It perplexes me that you never even speculate that humanity may not receive the Mantle. All the Primordial said is that humanity would be tested, no word on whether we'd pass or not. And we'd be tested when we are arrogant. Assuming the Mantle will just be given to us or that the Precursors are totally on our side sounds like the kind of arrogance that will doom humanity, no offense. Any future threats like the Created or the return of the Flood are not going to be solved by just humanity or any one species. Ancient humanity and the Forerunners learned that lesson.

But I suppose we can continue to go "Humanity -Yoink- yeah" until the Flood consumes us.
Lol now all I can think of is a Spartan Team charging into a peaceful Alien city and just demolishingg everything wirh utter carelessness while the soundtrack blasts "HUMANITY! F*** YEAH! COMING THRU TO SAVE THE MOTHER F'ING DAY YEAH! HUMANITY! F*** YEAH!"
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Life has no meaning without consequences, good or bad. There would be no sacrifice without loss. You can’t appreciate joy without understanding pain. Humanity for better or worse was chosen for a higher calling and everything that happens along that journey enriches the experience and wisdom of humanity and to some extent life itself.
Easy to say when it isn’t your species doomed to forever be in pain and suffering within the Flood.
Well you can't deny that Halo is resoundingly anthropocentric. It wasn't my decision, that's just how it's written. The other species seemingly will prosper or suffer depending on how well humanity handles itself as the caretakers of the galaxy.
It perplexes me that you never even speculate that humanity may not receive the Mantle. All the Primordial said is that humanity would be tested, no word on whether we'd pass or not. And we'd be tested when we are arrogant. Assuming the Mantle will just be given to us or that the Precursors are totally on our side sounds like the kind of arrogance that will doom humanity, no offense. Any future threats like the Created or the return of the Flood are not going to be solved by just humanity or any one species. Ancient humanity and the Forerunners learned that lesson.

But I suppose we can continue to go "Humanity -Yoink- yeah" until the Flood consumes us.
It perplexes me that you assume that I’ve never speculated humanity may not receive the mantle, who are you to say what I have and have not speculated. :/ Also I never said precursors are on our side. I don’t know why you are arguing for things I 1. Never said. 2. Already agree with.

I’m just saying the state of the galaxy hinges on how humanity handles their trials and tribulations etc. because that’s how the precursors set it up. I agree humanity needs to work with everyone for success.
Why should we care what the Precursors think or even entertain their little game? And if all the other species have to help humanity, then that's hardly an indication that humanity is in any way capable of shepherding the whole galaxy. The Mantle should be shared by all. Three people can hardly decide what to have for dinner, but the human race is suddenly capable of making decisions for every other species? No. I apologize for assuming your position, but something about "sacrifices" from other species somehow being good for us didn't give me the best indication you cared much for anything beyond humans.
JNDreher wrote:
If the Precursors exist outside of space and time as the Forerunner Saga suggests, they're still around because they're constants.
The survivors of their avatar race are the Flood.
If the Flood had intended to consume the galaxy, it would have. It specifically spared ancient humanity and even explained to them why it spared them. It deliberately gave the Forerunners enough time to create the Halos, and it didn't even start using Neural Physics until the Forerunners were in the final stages of their plan to relocate all they could to the Arks. The Flood isn't actually pursuing what it claims is its ultimate goal, so I conclude that it is still pursuing the Precursors' stated goal, of maneuvering humanity to the point where they have the wisdom and moral character to hold the Mantle of Responsibility. I say all of this to point out that the Flood doesn't need the galaxy weakened by Cortana.
I suspect that Cortana is part of humanity's test of worth, and that humanity will have to make a great sacrifice to pass the test (probably losing the Infinity). I'm hoping the story of Halo 6 takes us to Maethrillian and we get to see some of the things Abaddon has been making in the last hundred-thousand years since he was forcefully rebooted.
OMG YES ANOTHER IDEA FOR MY FANFIC (sorry for my cancer, i just like writing my speculations and pretending it's canon until then.
Flood may have this twisted idea of testing Forerunners and humans for the mantle.However I doubt the represent the will of Precursors and they were merely a accident born from failed Precursor plans to recreate their physical forms. Now that I think about it the story is suprisingly similar to what happened with the composer and prometheans.
Chimera30 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Thing is, I’m not sure why the Precursors would be upset with the Forerunners dominating other species arrogantly when they’d be subjugating all consumed species by the Flood to, at best, hundreds of thousands of years of pain and torment just so humanity can have the Mantle.

I mean, humanity gets the “wisdom and moral character” to hold the Mantle on the consumes backs of countless civilizations with no dog in this fight.
Prejudice against the Forerunners for usurping and wiping out the Precursors sounds like grounds for being upset with the Forerunners for just about anything.

Though it begs the question just how "Forerunner" the artificial Prometheans and Warden Eternal are considered. Like, living Forerunners like the Didact were the reason behind the destruction of the Precursors, but a bunch of composed units and artificial AI really didn't have anything to do with that. And then there's the fact that they are under Cortana's command, who is far removed from anything Forerunner.

Not buying into the whole "Flood are humanity's test" or "Flood aren't really trying" idea. Just food for thought.
That does seem plausible. It isn't irrefutable but your response and interpretation does make sense. I especially agree with the flood being insane and hate filled and that their plans may have no resemblance to the original Precursor plan.

I don't see why the Flood would need to sow seeds of discord though. They could have brute forced the Forerunners to defeat/extinction. The shifty political manipulation doesn't make logical sense to me. The flood infected the fabric of space and time itself, why would they be concerned with something trivial like political maneuvering?
I have a couple of ideas on that.
  1. The Flood weren't at a stage powerful enough to take on the Forerunner's at the time of their first appearance, so they pretended to lose and pretended to have a weakness so that they could reform in secret and then strike back in greater force later (which they did, they returned almost 10,000 years after their first appearance). And then, when they did come back, the Forerunners started off by using the techniques that ancient humans and the Shan'Shyum had used, but the Flood decided to stop faking so those techniques didn't work. That would have given the Flood a strong push in the beginning for overtaking Forerunner territories.
  2. Rather than just destroy the Forerunners, the Flood wanted to humiliate them and make them realize their own arrogance before killing them. Like forcing confessions before execution. The Flood cause the Forerunners to turn against themselves, which had the benefit of weakening their forces but also could serve as a different kind of revenge. By the end of the war, the toll on the Forerunner ecumene was greater than just the loss of their lives. The Forerunners were crestfallen and felt themselves no longer deserving of the Mantle. The Flood inflicted despair and hopelessness (psychological warfare) upon the Forerunners through its plans, which is worse than just killing them on the battlefield.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks a lot for your explanation. :)