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Could have humanity defeated a united covenant?

OP KH Foofoo14

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Assuming that the great schism never happened, would have humanity had still been able to defeat the covenant with the help of master chief alone?
No.

It is clear as day had the Great Schism never occured. Earth would have been glassed and the Covenant Empire would have gone on chasing the ragtag remnants aboard the UNSC INFINITY as it was initially intended. Any remaining colonies would be picked off and eventually the INFINITY is going to be cut off and destroyed by the numerically superior Covenant Fleet and Humanity will be a distant memory.

John-117 may be good, but he is not that good.

He can likely kill and has killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Covenant in his military career. The unfortunate truth of the matter though is even John is helpless when a Covenant Cruiser simply decides to glass him. I really don't know if you are jocking with this post, but it was clear in Halo 2 and Halo 3. Earth was all we had left and we were sadly losing before Truth left for the Ark.
Did you not pay attention to the games or...

What the guy above me said, no. There's absolutely no way that Humanity was going to win. We had already LOST to a fragmented Covenant, and the Covenant had occupied Earth and most of the UNSC was reduced to scattered elements across the planet (which before 343i decided to perform their terrible retcon, was the ONLY planet the UNSC had left). The only reason that they didn't immediately start glassing Earth was because they were preoccupied with digging up the Portal and activating it.

The UNSC and Humanity did not win the war, they merely SURVIVED it. And that is only because of what amounts to a technicality. If the Covenant had been united, even with the Ark, we would have still lost. Earth would have been glassed, the forces on the Ark wiped out and everything else left to get eaten by the Flood or erased from the Halo Array getting activated.

Plot armor is the /only/ thing that saved Humanity.
The purpose of reaching the Ark (I'm REALLY rusty) was to stop the Covenant from acquiring/firing the Rings, correct?

Even with that success, that only prevented immediate, mass eradication. The Covenant (assuming it was united) still was superior to forces fielded by the UNSC. I think in that alternative, the best that humanity could hope for would be a protracted guerilla war, mostly running, trying to survive. Just buying time, I think. I suppose on a long enough timeline, victory for humanity could still be possible, but still unlikely.
No way
If Chief could have killed every prophet then they might have been able to win.
If Chief could have killed every prophet then they might have been able to win.
Every single Prophet or every single member of the San Shyuum race? Either I’d imagine the Elites doubling down on humanity in revenge for killing the lead figures of their religion.
Unlikely, sheer numbers game. Humanity had less soldiers, ships, worlds and tech. In the long run it is extinction.
If Chief could have killed every prophet then they might have been able to win.
Every single Prophet or every single member of the San Shyuum race? Either I’d imagine the Elites doubling down on humanity in revenge for killing the lead figures of their religion.
They might or they might lose the will to keep fighting.
Did you not pay attention to the games or...

What the guy above me said, no. There's absolutely no way that Humanity was going to win. We had already LOST to a fragmented Covenant, and the Covenant had occupied Earth and most of the UNSC was reduced to scattered elements across the planet (which before 343i decided to perform their terrible retcon, was the ONLY planet the UNSC had left). The only reason that they didn't immediately start glassing Earth was because they were preoccupied with digging up the Portal and activating it.

The UNSC and Humanity did not win the war, they merely SURVIVED it. And that is only because of what amounts to a technicality. If the Covenant had been united, even with the Ark, we would have still lost. Earth would have been glassed, the forces on the Ark wiped out and everything else left to get eaten by the Flood or erased from the Halo Array getting activated.

Plot armor is the /only/ thing that saved Humanity.
Was Earth really the only planet left? Where was that made explicit? I remember Hood saying something like “Earth, is all we have left” in Halo 3 but did he really mean it literally? The Covenant found every colony except for Earth?
Did you not pay attention to the games or...

What the guy above me said, no. There's absolutely no way that Humanity was going to win. We had already LOST to a fragmented Covenant, and the Covenant had occupied Earth and most of the UNSC was reduced to scattered elements across the planet (which before 343i decided to perform their terrible retcon, was the ONLY planet the UNSC had left). The only reason that they didn't immediately start glassing Earth was because they were preoccupied with digging up the Portal and activating it.

The UNSC and Humanity did not win the war, they merely SURVIVED it. And that is only because of what amounts to a technicality. If the Covenant had been united, even with the Ark, we would have still lost. Earth would have been glassed, the forces on the Ark wiped out and everything else left to get eaten by the Flood or erased from the Halo Array getting activated.

Plot armor is the /only/ thing that saved Humanity.
Was Earth really the only planet left? Where was that made explicit? I remember Hood saying something like “Earth, is all we have left” in Halo 3 but did he really mean it literally? The Covenant found every colony except for Earth?
No, even as far back as the Fall of Reach book that came out in like 2001, Keyes stated that the Covenant skipped over two dozen inner colony worlds to get to Reach. The only retcon 343 made was the amount of damage done to Earth.
Did you not pay attention to the games or...

What the guy above me said, no. There's absolutely no way that Humanity was going to win. We had already LOST to a fragmented Covenant, and the Covenant had occupied Earth and most of the UNSC was reduced to scattered elements across the planet (which before 343i decided to perform their terrible retcon, was the ONLY planet the UNSC had left). The only reason that they didn't immediately start glassing Earth was because they were preoccupied with digging up the Portal and activating it.

The UNSC and Humanity did not win the war, they merely SURVIVED it. And that is only because of what amounts to a technicality. If the Covenant had been united, even with the Ark, we would have still lost. Earth would have been glassed, the forces on the Ark wiped out and everything else left to get eaten by the Flood or erased from the Halo Array getting activated.

Plot armor is the /only/ thing that saved Humanity.
Was Earth really the only planet left? Where was that made explicit? I remember Hood saying something like “Earth, is all we have left” in Halo 3 but did he really mean it literally? The Covenant found every colony except for Earth?
No, even as far back as the Fall of Reach book that came out in like 2001, Keyes stated that the Covenant skipped over two dozen inner colony worlds to get to Reach. The only retcon 343 made was the amount of damage done to Earth.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Where in the canon is does it talk about the Covenant occupying most of Earth if you don't mind me asking, and where is the damage to earth discussed?
If Chief could have killed every prophet then they might have been able to win.
Every single Prophet or every single member of the San Shyuum race? Either I’d imagine the Elites doubling down on humanity in revenge for killing the lead figures of their religion.
They might or they might lose the will to keep fighting.
The warrior race Elites lose the will to keep fighting? Their whole culture pretty much revolves around war and fighting.
Just a side idea, if the Covenant kept control over Delta Halo (since there is no civil war to weaken them or force them to abort the activation) would they not have fired it with High Charity and its defense fleet still in orbit of the ring? While,
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The prophets couldn't really delay the activation of a holy ring for very long, even with the war still waging. The whole religion relied on finding the rings to ascend to godhood "like the forerunners had". So convincing the billions of covenant members that they had to wait for ascension even when it was, at most, now a simple matter of doing a fancy ceremony in the control room of Delta Halo, seems difficult.

Had this followed through, the covenant would lose their leaders, billions of soldiers / workers / members and hundreds of ships. Then other battle groups (if they hadn't gone to the halo for the "ascension") would be left leaderless / crippled of central society and command structures. So, if humanity ran far enough and survived long enough.... we could have outlasted the covenant... (if this played through like this and the covies didn't go for the deluxe Ark package for genocide)
Just a side idea, if the Covenant kept control over Delta Halo (since there is no civil war to weaken them or force them to abort the activation) would they not have fired it with High Charity and its defense fleet still in orbit of the ring?
Firing of the Halo Array is impossible without the Activation Index or Installation 00 and neither can be used without a Reclaimer aka Human. The Covenant would be parked in orbit around Installation 05/Delta Halo wondering what they were supposed to do as without 343GS or 2401PT. I'd surmise once the Covenant realize they can't actually "Light" the Halo in order to follow the Forerunners on there "Great Journey". The very foundation of the Covenant would be torn apart anyways and it would be worse then the Great Schism.

Faith in a faulty religion is the only thing that really kept the Covenant together and besides the Betrayal of the Elites. The very loss of there religion would surely have consequences. Without the promise of the "Great Journey" I'd see the Covenant continuing the war with the only caveat being the Covenant are now pouring everything in wiping away Humanity. Religious zealots who lost there faith are likely going to be worse to fight as I'd see portions of High Charity's Defense Fleet assaulting Earth and goodbye Humanity.
If Chief could have killed every prophet then they might have been able to win.
Every single Prophet or every single member of the San Shyuum race? Either I’d imagine the Elites doubling down on humanity in revenge for killing the lead figures of their religion.
They might or they might lose the will to keep fighting.
The warrior race Elites lose the will to keep fighting? Their whole culture pretty much revolves around war and fighting.
They may lose the will to keep fighting for the prophets.
yes.They could,i think
MrZHIGE wrote:
yes.They could,i think
Writing responses on your phone?
I know this wasn't the question, but I think Halo 4 and (beginning of) Halo 5's UNSC would have had a good chance against a united Covenant. Humanity was one of the major forces of the galaxy by then, mostly due to the creation of the UNSC Infinity, a ship which dwarfed all others except for Covenant supercarriers. Having the most advanced warriors in the galaxy also helped.
^ Post-War UNSC is still getting stomped by a united Covenant Empire and there are no ifs ands or buts about that fact. The UNSC INFINITY may be great in the Post-War Era, but put it up against a Covenant Fleet or multiple combined Covenant Fleets which will consist of CCS-Battle Cruisers and maybe one-to-three CAS-Assault Carriers and the INFINITY is screwed even with its supporting carriers inside.

The INFINITY also isn't that much larger then a CAS-Assault Carrier only beating it by 347m in length. Not very impressive since the Covenant is fielding likely hundreds if not thousands of CAS-Assault Carriers and the INFINITY is only one ship. Its only claim to fame is its the biggest ship humanity ever built and right now it reigns uncontentested as the strongest ship because humanity rules now.

The other ships in the Post-War UNSC aren't that impressive either. I mean sure they have energy shielding now, so what. Its unlikely the UNSC shielding is on par with the Covenant's as the only feat we've seen in INFINITY ram a RCS-Armored Cruiser and those were long out of date by the Human-Covenant War. I'd bet any ship in the UNSC that has shielding is still going to be gutted by an energy projector.
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