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dr halsey lour

OP PTSI 93

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So a buddy and I have been discussing Dr.Halsey's scene in the beginning of halo Guardians. He Hypothesizes that in that she is pulling another Cortana out of stasis and putting it into service... she has her journal which allegedly holds all her research. Basically, he is saying she created another cloned Cortana because she thought the other one had been destroyed at least due to rampancy guidelines. So she tells Osiris's Agent Locke "they will kill us both if they find out". ---Thoughts--- I feel like its a possibility she created another Cortana.

mod edit: moved to Halo Universe
Good possibility, however personally I hope that does not happen unless they are somehow the same.
A neat idea, but I think the point of the scene was to highlight Cortana’s creation from Halsey, and her “all I did I did in the name of the greater good.” To show Cortana, much like some other super villains in comics, truly think they are doing the right thing.
Unlikely, bordering impossible. Since Halsey had both arms in that scene, it was representative of some time before Halo 4. In which case, the only time she would have had been free to even go into an ONI facility like that would be pre-Reach. After escaping Reach, Halsey was trapped on Onyx, and then immediately arrested by ONI upon her rescue from Onyx. Once arrested she would have had no opportunity to make a new Cortana, because she was in jail, only being let out to go help out the UNSC Infinity in Spartan Ops. And before escaping Reach, Halsey would have had no reason to think Cortana was rampant or destroyed. When you take all that together, it becomes an unlikely scenario that Halsey is working with a clone of Cortana in that scene.

What we are seeing in that scene is most likely Halsey loading a fragment of the original Cortana into the container she hands off to Noble 6 in Halo Reach. We know from the Fall of Reach novel that Cortana split herself into two pieces during the invasion of Reach; one piece was already aboard the UNSC Pillar of Autumn, and the other stayed behind on Reach with Halsey to finish running tests on the Forerunner artifact below Reach's surface. When Halsey gave Cortana to Noble 6, she wasn't giving him all of Cortana, but instead just a piece, and that piece would later be reunited with the rest of Cortana on the Autumn.
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
Chimera30 wrote:
Unlikely, bordering impossible. Since Halsey had both arms in that scene, it was representative of some time before Halo 4. In which case, the only time she would have had been free to even go into an ONI facility like that would be pre-Reach. After escaping Reach, Halsey was trapped on Onyx, and then immediately arrested by ONI upon her rescue from Onyx. Once arrested she would have had no opportunity to make a new Cortana, because she was in jail, only being let out to go help out the UNSC Infinity in Spartan Ops. And before escaping Reach, Halsey would have had no reason to think Cortana was rampant or destroyed. When you take all that together, it becomes an unlikely scenario that Halsey is working with a clone of Cortana in that scene.

What we are seeing in that scene is most likely Halsey loading a fragment of the original Cortana into the container she hands off to Noble 6 in Halo Reach. We know from the Fall of Reach novel that Cortana split herself into two pieces during the invasion of Reach; one piece was already aboard the UNSC Pillar of Autumn, and the other stayed behind on Reach with Halsey to finish running tests on the Forerunner artifact below Reach's surface. When Halsey gave Cortana to Noble 6, she wasn't giving him all of Cortana, but instead just a piece, and that piece would later be reunited with the rest of Cortana on the Autumn.
Thanks for your input!
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
Thanks for your input. We discussed the thread last night while gaming. His reasoning was due to how "much younger" she looked on reach vs the scene in the beginning of guardians. I read your threads thanks for attaching them. A lot of good information.
I agree that the cutscene is from a time on Reach but before the fall. I thought Noble 6 was delivering the Forerunner Cortana to the Pillar, because Pillar Cortana had already integrated with Chief’s neural network during a test by Admiral Ackerson while Halsey and Forerunner Cortana finished their latchkey research (allowing Cortana to decipher the Forerunner language on Halo). This cutscene could technically be either of the two fragments. Although Halsey has more cloned brains in storage, I don’t think she would want to make an AI from them. Who knows what Admirals Parangosky and Osman did with those brains. They have such contempt for Halsey, it wouldn’t surprise me if they had them destroyed.
PTSI 93 wrote:
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
Thanks for your input. We discussed the thread last night while gaming. His reasoning was due to how "much younger" she looked on reach vs the scene in the beginning of guardians. I read your threads thanks for attaching them. A lot of good information.
In the future, please use the edit button instead of making an extra post.
PTSI 93 wrote:
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
Thanks for your input. We discussed the thread last night while gaming. His reasoning was due to how "much younger" she looked on reach vs the scene in the beginning of guardians. I read your threads thanks for attaching them. A lot of good information.
In the future, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
The Squigz wrote:
I agree that the cutscene is from a time on Reach but before the fall. I thought Noble 6 was delivering the Forerunner Cortana to the Pillar, because Pillar Cortana had already integrated with Chief’s neural network during a test by Admiral Ackerson while Halsey and Forerunner Cortana finished their latchkey research (allowing Cortana to decipher the Forerunner language on Halo). This cutscene could technically be either of the two fragments. Although Halsey has more cloned brains in storage, I don’t think she would want to make an AI from them. Who knows what Admirals Parangosky and Osman did with those brains. They have such contempt for Halsey, it wouldn’t surprise me if they had them destroyed.
I mean, if Halsey kept the brains in CASTLE Base then they were probably destroyed when she herself initiated WHITEGLOVE and destroyed CASTLE Base. Parangosky or Osman would’ve learned of their existence once they read her journal, but no mention of their recover was ever stated.

Id say it’s almost likely they were destroyed.
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All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
What if it's the AI she worked with before Cortana? As smart as she is, maybe Halsey somehow reset the old AI to factory settings or something like that. Not even sure thats possible with AI. If so, someone need to reboot Cortana, lol.
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
What if it's the AI she worked with before Cortana? As smart as she is, maybe Halsey somehow reset the old AI to factory settings or something like that. Not even sure thats possible with AI. If so, someone need to reboot Cortana, lol.
Kalmiya was created by Halsey, but she wasn't created from Halsey's brain. While we don't know what Kalmiya looked like, she wouldn't look like Halsey or Cortana. The AI in that scene is definitely Cortana.
All of what Chimera30 said along with this: we can reasonable determine this is Halsey back at her old office at CASTLE Base prior to the Fall of Reach. Her office was located on Level Scarlet and the walls show a red line. She was also in possession of her journal which, following the events of the Kilo-5 trilogy of books set in 2553, is in ONI custody.

No Halo novel suggests she made a second Cortana. Her journal doesn’t suggest that she made a second Cortana.
What if it's the AI she worked with before Cortana? As smart as she is, maybe Halsey somehow reset the old AI to factory settings or something like that. Not even sure thats possible with AI. If so, someone need to reboot Cortana, lol.
No such AI outside of Kalmiya would fit the bill, but as Chimera30 said she wasn't made from Halsey's brain. She was also destroyed by Halsey when she initiated WHITEGLOVE. It's Cortana in the prologue, people gotta stop grasping at straws.
Halo 5's Halsey Opening is one of the undated scenes/missions set amongst the dated ones in Halo 5, creating puzzles for the player to find the clues, work out the dates, and then put the Campaign in the correct date order. This is one of many tricks 343i use to hide the "real" plot.

HALO 5 HALSEY OPENING DATING EVIDENCE

(1) They focus in on Halsey's face to show her looking suitably aged mid-60's, rather than younger as she was in Halo: Reach.

(2) Halsey says "Spartan Locke". Halo: Nightfall took place in October 2556, during which Locke was not yet a Spartan-IV, but still "Agent Locke". After Nightfall, allowing time for his turn to come up, go to Mars, complete Augmentation and all Training, including allowing time for Growth Hormone and Steroids to work, Locke probably became a Spartan later in 2557 or early 2558.

(3) The scene cannot be later than February 2558, when Halsey lost her left arm on Requiem in Halo 4 Spartan Ops (note: the Infinity only arrived at Requiem for H4:SpOps on 7th February 2558).

There are other related clues and hints elsewhere in the Opening, elsewhere in Halo 5, and in wider EU.

But just between these clues 1-3 above, we get a probable date for the H5 Halsey Opening between mid-2557 and February 2558. So, it's likely also set after Master Chief reported Cortana "MIA: presumed dead" to the UNSC Security Council on 25th July 2557 (Halo:Escalation #8), so creating the reason for making the "new Cortana model" that Cortana herself predicted in Halo 4's Composer Mission.

For reason (2) alone, the H5 Halsey Opening Scene cannot be a Retcon of the creation of Cortana nor her being evacuated by Noble Six in Halo:Reach, but a later event, probably involving the remaining Flash Clones of Halsey's brain, or possibly Cortana herself already retrieved after Halo 4 and having her neural network re-sequenced, as she suggested could be done in Halo 4 (in which case, Locke is acting as "The New Noble Six").

It's also possible that Locke's "Artemis" Intel Finder and Decoder is a "Cortana-Model" version, newly made from one of Halsey's spare Flash Clones. That could explain why Halsey is thinking of Locke, as she might be waiting for him to arrive to collect his new Artemis-Cortana. During this, she may also be thinking how it's ironic that she may be creating the "agent of her own destruction", because if ONI ever ordered Locke to assassinate her, he could use this very Artemis-Cortana to track her down to kill her...

It's also possible, even probable, that Halsey's "new Cortana model" is the one we meet in the Cryptum on Genesis, so implicating Halsey and ONI as being the ones who are really behind the Guardians. This would have to be as part of the Argent Moon "Covert Warfare" Plan (clues about which can be found in H5 Mission 2), which seeks to use alien technology to hide that it's really ONI behind the attack, and framing someone else - so triggering reprisals against the faction who are framed, rather than ONI. In H5, Chief's Halo 4 Cortana is the one being framed for being the Forerunner Guardians (the alien tech), so covering up ONI's real intentions and desired targets...

Contrary to what some claim, it is of course irrelevant whether wider Lore yet describes Halsey's spare Flash Clones being saved from Reach, or Halsey making new Cortana-model AI's in 2557-58, because Halo Infinite could partly be so named because 343i are about to reveal "what will feel like an infinite number of Retcons about Halo 5's story!" :-D

Indeed, all the basic theories about what really happened in Halo 5 have their own merits, being both perfectly logical and based on bits of existing Lore. The only thing which will determine which theory is ultimately revealed as "right" is simply which theory 343i have decided to go with in Halo Infinite's story - then we'll all know...

We can only wait and see what 343i reveal.

I hope this helps. :-)
You’re making things up again. The span between Halo: Reach and Halo 4 is only five years, not really enough time for a drastic change in appearance. Also, you know, there’s obviously the difference in graphics between Reach and Halo 4/5. Pre-rendered CGI is going to look way different than in-game graphics. So basing any serious points on that isn’t going to work.

Yes, she says Spartan Locke...but it isn’t like narration set in the present of a story cannot be overlayed with something being shown in the past. And really, there is a good chance this prologue won’t amount to much. I doubt that will seem like a possibility to one who thinks everything about Halo 5’s story was planned out meticulously and implemented flawlessly, but game development is often littered with things cut or left in. Whether Halsey’s narration matters or not remains to be seen, but I have my doubts given how detached it is from the rest of the game.

I’m not sure why you imply the Artemis system might possible be a Cortana model anything when it is every implied to even be an AI at all. Making things up isn’t not evidence. Same goes for what you claim Argent Moon is about, the whole using alien tech to hide ONIs actions thing. It’s a research station, not a flase flag factory. I even asked you to prove that before and you never did.

Given where we know Halsey worked, her still having two arms, and being in possession of her journal all point to a timeframe of at least pre-Halo: Combat Evolved.

I know you think the Halo 5 in your head is a masterpiece, but let’s discuss the story as it actually is.
You’re making things up again. The span between Halo: Reach and Halo 4 is only five years, not really enough time for a drastic change in appearance. Also, you know, there’s obviously the difference in graphics between Reach and Halo 4/5. Pre-rendered CGI is going to look way different than in-game graphics. So basing any serious points on that isn’t going to work.

Yes, she says Spartan Locke...but it isn’t like narration set in the present of a story cannot be overlayed with something being shown in the past. And really, there is a good chance this prologue won’t amount to much. I doubt that will seem like a possibility to one who thinks everything about Halo 5’s story was planned out meticulously and implemented flawlessly, but game development is often littered with things cut or left in. Whether Halsey’s narration matters or not remains to be seen, but I have my doubts given how detached it is from the rest of the game.

I’m not sure why you imply the Artemis system might possible be a Cortana model anything when it is every implied to even be an AI at all. Making things up isn’t not evidence. Same goes for what you claim Argent Moon is about, the whole using alien tech to hide ONIs actions thing. It’s a research station, not a flase flag factory. I even asked you to prove that before and you never did.

Given where we know Halsey worked, her still having two arms, and being in possession of her journal all point to a timeframe of at least pre-Halo: Combat Evolved.

I know you think the Halo 5 in your head is a masterpiece, but let’s discuss the story as it actually is.
"You again?", my "Year One S-IV Detective" friend? Did you get that Series-2 Data Drop reference? ;-)

Before we go on, if my theory were correct, 2549-2557/58 would be 8-9 years.

But I am simply suggesteing various possibilities that perhaps other players had not thought of (because I'm a helpful kind of person). They remain such whether you'd like them to be so or not. To quote Buck in H5 Unconfirmed, "Being a fact and making sense are two different things", and just because something doesn't make sense to you (or you don't want it to be true) doesn't mean it is not possible, probable, a "fact", or "true".

As for the Argent Moon, you did exactly what I suggested not to in my post (going purely by the Audio Logs), and you evidently didn't do what I did suggest - to go and look at the visual clues to get "the big picture" instead - else your reply would have been "OOPS! Yeah, like everyone does else at first, we actually all walked right past the visual clues!" ;-)

You wrote of your objections, "I doubt that will seem like a possibility to one who thinks everything about Halo 5’s story was planned out meticulously and implemented flawlessly, but game development is often littered with things cut or left in." Thanks for the lesson in how to make Video Games and Movies - I'll be sure to add that precious gem to my knowledge base on Narrative & Semiotics in Text, Art and Cinematography. Sure, nobody's perfect - but I will not retract the idea that "Halo 5 is far better planned and laid out as a Mystery Story for the player to solve" than 343i are given credit for. What amazes me is how people continue to assert that "The makers of Hunt The Signal just couldn't be that clever in making up a baffling Halo 5 Mystery Story!" Oh, but as surely as 8-28 = 6-89 in the H5 Campaign, yes, they could. And perhaps that's the real problem here - is Halo 5 simply "too hard for most to solve", or as I've often stated, just too much "dog work"? Well, 343i did advertise "the greatest hunt in gaming history", and I'm simply suggesting that Halo 5 is "as advertised" because it's riddled with clues, puzzles and Lore to find.

Meanwhile, as in that previous post where you attempt to "divine" my motives, here again you express your fantasies about me, "wildly joining completely unrelated dots" with "pieces of red string" to create an image of an "incompetent" who "lives in cloud cuckoo land". If only you knew how wrong you are, as reading my previous posts will demonstrate at least a little of my skills with Boolean Logic, Probability, complex Multi-Theory and simultaneous Multi-Path approaches, not to mention un-Locke-ing layers of a multi-layer story, as well as Narrative and Semiotic Analysis, and all hopefully explained "with clarity and grace" (you get that Halo 2 reference?). Though my multi-theory ideas could be referred to, I simply push the "Hunt The Truth" angle of "ONI are behind it all" because that's the theory players seem to struggle to see the most, "ONI, out of the shadows" (what a surprise, as shadows don't speak or make a sound, they can only be seen, hence those visual clues!).

But in reality, perhaps it's just that I (and others) may know a lot about stuff that you (or Haruspis or ActMan and others) are not actually an expert on, and my motives might yet turn out to be more benign than you seem to think. After all, to "put my cards on the table" with a bit of flair (or is that "flare"?), with infinite "hope" I say...

"I wandered lonely as a cloud,
That floats on high o'er trailer and still,
When all at once I spied a crowd:
Three trees, a moon, and sparks that spill...

Then there it was, a cliff that hung,
And beneath the waters clear and still,
A Sub that shed it's light unsung,
'Pon sunken arches of ancient skill..."

Disarmingly eloquent in verse 1, huh, 343i? But I hope that's as beautifully put as Dan and the 343i Team deserve for that Cinematography! Yet, "Shall I tell them, or will you?", that as I've written before, "The writing's on the wall", and "Halo 5 is as easy as 123-!"? ;-)

So as much as I hate to "throw 225119 spanners in the works", I'm simply suggesting we're getting towards "the last chance to bail out" for some people, and perhaps save some face by showing a little more humility and open-mindedness, and maybe starting to entertain other possibilities about Halo 5's plot - because otherwise "the big reveals" in 343i's Infinite story might be about to Ground Pound you, Haruspis, ActMan and others from orbit... ;-)

"Being a fact and making sense are two different things", and via Buck, maybe those are some wise words about Halo 5's plot from Brian Reed and the 343i Writing Team after all - because, you know, "There's three trees and a tree stump on Zeta Halo now!" Oh, and to save you writing it again, yeah, I know - I sound crazy saying that, right? ;-) :-D

"A conjecture thought to be sound, Was that every circle was round: In a paper of Erdős, written in Kurdish, A counterexample is found!" (Quote of a limerick about the "non-round circle" discovered by the Mathematician Paul Erdos, pronounced like "Er-dish").
(2) Halsey says "Spartan Locke". Halo: Nightfall took place in October 2556, during which Locke was not yet a Spartan-IV, but still "Agent Locke". After Nightfall, allowing time for his turn to come up, go to Mars, complete Augmentation and all Training, including allowing time for Growth Hormone and Steroids to work, Locke probably became a Spartan later in 2557 or early 2558.
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For reason (2) alone, the H5 Halsey Opening Scene cannot be a Retcon of the creation of Cortana nor her being evacuated by Noble Six in Halo:Reach, but a later event, probably involving the remaining Flash Clones of Halsey's brain, or possibly Cortana herself already retrieved after Halo 4 and having her neural network re-sequenced, as she suggested could be done in Halo 4 (in which case, Locke is acting as "The New Noble Six").
The audio of the scene and the video do not represent the same time. The audio is a voice-over, evident by the fact that Halsey's mouth in the scene isn't making the words we hear her say. The audio is representative of a conversation between Halsey and Locke after he rescued her from Jul, since she refers to him as Spartan and that was the first time they met. The video is representative of a flashback from before the fall of Reach, because Halsey has both arms and wasn't in custody. After getting rescued from Onyx, Halsey was immediately arrested, and remained in custody until being sent to Infinity in Spartan Ops. There is no time in between where ONI would have let her go back to a lab to mess with stuff. Therefore, it must be a scene from before Halsey fled Reach. So what we have here is a flashback with a voice-over, so your reason (2) is a non-sequitur.

The difference in how old Halsey looks in Reach and this scene is simply explained due to the difference in art style and technologies. With Halo 4 and 5 being more recent games, their graphical fidelity allowed for showing more aged and wrinkly look to Halsey's face; likely something they would've done with Reach if they could've. Not to mention that Halsey has had looks that didn't match her canonical age before (Halo Legends - The Package: Halsey looks young in the animated short but is 52 years old at the time of Operation WARM BLANKET).
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