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Halo vs. Star Wars | Who would win?

OP M0aHerder

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Nadesicle wrote:
Star Wars, without a doubt.
Not that, that^ wasn't indepth but would you care to cover a lil more ground as to why SW wins.
All the weapons, armor, etc is way more superior than Halo. I mean, look at the weapons only in that aspect. Bullets vs blasters (excluding the spartan laser). That would rip them up as they are. Then if you want to start a debate on vehicles/ships, a Star Destroyer would eat the bullets with it's deflector shield. Even against the MAC cannon. Then you have the Death Star, would put "glassing" a planet to shame. I love Halo, but sadly, it would lose this battle! lol.
Nadesicle wrote:
Nadesicle wrote:
Star Wars, without a doubt.
Not that, that^ wasn't indepth but would you care to cover a lil more ground as to why SW wins.
All the weapons, armor, etc is way more superior than Halo. I mean, look at the weapons only in that aspect. Bullets vs blasters (excluding the spartan laser). That would rip them up as they are. Then if you want to start a debate on vehicles/ships, a Star Destroyer would eat the bullets with it's deflector shield. Even against the MAC cannon. Then you have the Death Star, would put "glassing" a planet to shame. I love Halo, but sadly, it would lose this battle! lol.
Shame that is all irrelevant as the Empire will never encounter the UNSC or the Covenant in this fight...
I see a lot of comments here from people who seem to think that in a major confrontation between the factions from these 2 universe’s be it ship to ship, fleet to fleet or all out total war, it would be a slam dunk that the Galactic Republic or its Imperial successor would come out on top.

In the real world if one nation plans to declare war upon another, it has know in advance that said war can be won with the resources they have available. For this, they need among many other things up to date and accurate intelligence on;

  • The size and distribution of the target nations military forces and civilian population
  • Their economic capabilities and access to raw materials, essentially how long their potential adversaries can sustain a war of defence or attack.
  • An accurate understanding of their target nations technological capabilities, exactly how much damage they are capable of doing in a worst case scenario

We have a great deal of information on the capabilities of the Galactic Empire at its height, which if I remember correctly from the old Legends canon collated to;

  • 1,500,000 member worlds divided into 1,024 administrative sub-sectors, and 20 over-sectors
  • 69,000,000 colonies affiliated to various member worlds
  • An Imperial Starfleet which numbers 25,000 Star Destroyer’s capital ships, and millions of battlecruisers, auxiliary ships and support vessels, as well as Ground forces that number in the billions or trillions, perhaps higher. (25,000 Star Destroyers to police so many inhabited systems and planets has always seemed ridiculously small in my opinion. Just like 3,000,000 Clone Troopers to fight a galactic scale war when WWII involved much higher numbers of troops. 40k gets through that number of troops before breakfast every morning.)
  • A collective galactic population of 100,000,000,000,000,000, the majority of which live under the Galactic Republic or Empire. (In laymen terms, tax-payers, an expansionist empire’s best friend. Broken down, this means aprox 1,418,439,000 galatic citizens per inhabited member world or colony, but in reality member worlds (usually a species homeworld) number in the billions or higher, taking the average population by colony down)

All very impressive figures yes.

However the point is that that unlike the Galactic Empire, no one on this forum can provide equivalent figures for how many inhabited planets, capital ships or ground troops the Covenant Empire commanded at its height throughout the Milky Way Galaxy, or the full capabilities of their technology. For this reason, no one can be sure that in either a single ship-to-ship battle or full scale galactic war, that the Galactic Empire or its democratic predecessor would command enough resources, ships and troops to overwhelm the Covenant before the Hegemony could strike back with equal or greater force, or just how strong that counter-attack will be, or where it will eventually end. (A war that starts at Sangheilios or High Charity could well end at Coruscant or vise-versa, if one side has the resources to push it there)

More importantly, the title of this thread is Star Wars vs Halo, therefore in a direct confrontation the Galactic Empire is not going to be just fighting the UNSC or just fighting the Covenant. They are going to be fighting every single space-faring military power in the Mikly Way galaxy at the point in time they invade.

How many space-faring interstellar civilizations existing in the Milky Way galaxy between 2525-2553 and beyond?

Again know one on this forum can know with certainty, but considering the Covenant Empire has been repeatedly described in the lore as the dominant military power in the Milky Way galaxy, this would suggest they control much more than a modest slice or territory in the galaxy. It could be that other then the UNSC, the Covenant Empire is the only other space faring power in the galaxy with colonies, subject worlds or military outposts in every solar system of the galaxy, which would provide them with anywhere between 100 – 400 billion inhabited systems to draw resources from in the case of all-out war with the Covenant.

Alternatively the Covenant may be one (the most powerful) of dozens, hundreds or even thousands of interstellar space faring powers commanding control of a modest number of inhabited systems but still capable of project military power across the galaxy. In addition to this, Covenant technology seems to be on par if not superior to its Star Wars counterparts from what I have seen to date. Covenant warship’s (which are all of equal or greater size to their Imperial Naval counterparts) are equipped with lasers and plasma weapons in the exact same manner Imperial Star Destroyers are equipped with lasers and blasters. I also have yet to see the Galactic Republic or Empire provide their infantry forces with any form of mass produced personnel energy shielding such as is issued to Sangheili foot-soldiers, which to me suggests that energy manipulation is a field of science the Covenant is far more advance din then the Republic or Empire ever was.

In either case, in the event of full scale war with the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire or any other space faring military super-power from the Star Wars universe, its easily conceivable in my mind that the Covenant Empire and whichever allies would flock to its side would command a military and economy just as large and technologically advanced as that of the Galactic Empire at its height, if not significantly greater taking into account the size of our galaxy.

I’m not saying it’s an inevitable conclusion that the Covenant, UNSC, Forerunner remnants and whichever other space-faring interstellar powers exist in the Halo Universe would be able to crush the Galactic Republic, Empire and Rebel Alliance given sufficient time to do so.

There is just far too much we don’t know about how large or small the Covenant Empire really is, how many inhabited systems across the galaxy in controls, the size of the Covenant’s own Starfleet, the political status of the galaxy at large, or how many ground troops and starship's they could commit to a full scale invasion of the Galactic Empire given the chance.

That is my main point, which would make any theoretical clash between military forces from these two Universe’s inconclusive in my opinion. (And I’d much rather see what happens when Imperial Stormtroopers fight Starfleet’s red-shirted security guards, as you’ll have the troops who can’t hit anything vs the troops who always get killed. That would be entertaining)
Nadesicle wrote:
Star Wars, without a doubt.
halo, without a doubt.
timh1990 wrote:
I see a lot of comments here from people who seem to think that in a major confrontation between the factions from these 2 universe’s be it ship to ship, fleet to fleet or all out total war, it would be a slam dunk that the Galactic Republic or its Imperial successor would come out on top.
In the real world if one nation plans to declare war upon another, it has know in advance that said war can be won with the resources they have available. For this, they need among many other things up to date and accurate intelligence on;
  • The size and distribution of the target nations military forces and civilian population
  • Their economic capabilities and access to raw materials, essentially how long their potential adversaries can sustain a war of defence or attack.
  • An accurate understanding of their target nations technological capabilities, exactly how much damage they are capable of doing in a worst case scenario
We have a great deal of information on the capabilities of the Galactic Empire at its height, which if I remember correctly from the old Legends canon collated to;
  • 1,500,000 member worlds divided into 1,024 administrative sub-sectors, and 20 over-sectors
  • 69,000,000 colonies affiliated to various member worlds
  • An Imperial Starfleet which numbers 25,000 Star Destroyer’s capital ships, and millions of battlecruisers, auxiliary ships and support vessels, as well as Ground forces that number in the billions or trillions, perhaps higher. (25,000 Star Destroyers to police so many inhabited systems and planets has always seemed ridiculously small in my opinion. Just like 3,000,000 Clone Troopers to fight a galactic scale war when WWII involved much higher numbers of troops. 40k gets through that number of troops before breakfast every morning.)
  • A collective galactic population of 100,000,000,000,000,000, the majority of which live under the Galactic Republic or Empire. (In laymen terms, tax-payers, an expansionist empire’s best friend. Broken down, this means aprox 1,418,439,000 galatic citizens per inhabited member world or colony, but in reality member worlds (usually a species homeworld) number in the billions or higher, taking the average population by colony down)
All very impressive figures yes.
However the point is that that unlike the Galactic Empire, no one on this forum can provide equivalent figures for how many inhabited planets, capital ships or ground troops the Covenant Empire commanded at its height throughout the Milky Way Galaxy, or the full capabilities of their technology. For this reason, no one can be sure that in either a single ship-to-ship battle or full scale galactic war, that the Galactic Empire or its democratic predecessor would command enough resources, ships and troops to overwhelm the Covenant before the Hegemony could strike back with equal or greater force, or just how strong that counter-attack will be, or where it will eventually end. (A war that starts at Sangheilios or High Charity could well end at Coruscant or vise-versa, if one side has the resources to push it there)
More importantly, the title of this thread is Star Wars vs Halo, therefore in a direct confrontation the Galactic Empire is not going to be just fighting the UNSC or just fighting the Covenant. They are going to be fighting every single space-faring military power in the Mikly Way galaxy at the point in time they invade.
How many space-faring interstellar civilizations existing in the Milky Way galaxy between 2525-2553 and beyond?
Again know one on this forum can know with certainty, but considering the Covenant Empire has been repeatedly described in the lore as the dominant military power in the Milky Way galaxy, this would suggest they control much more than a modest slice or territory in the galaxy. It could be that other then the UNSC, the Covenant Empire is the only other space faring power in the galaxy with colonies, subject worlds or military outposts in every solar system of the galaxy, which would provide them with anywhere between 100 – 400 billion inhabited systems to draw resources from in the case of all-out war with the Covenant.
Alternatively the Covenant may be one (the most powerful) of dozens, hundreds or even thousands of interstellar space faring powers commanding control of a modest number of inhabited systems but still capable of project military power across the galaxy. In addition to this, Covenant technology seems to be on par if not superior to its Star Wars counterparts from what I have seen to date. Covenant warship’s (which are all of equal or greater size to their Imperial Naval counterparts) are equipped with lasers and plasma weapons in the exact same manner Imperial Star Destroyers are equipped with lasers and blasters. I also have yet to see the Galactic Republic or Empire provide their infantry forces with any form of mass produced personnel energy shielding such as is issued to Sangheili foot-soldiers, which to me suggests that energy manipulation is a field of science the Covenant is far more advance din then the Republic or Empire ever was.
In either case, in the event of full scale war with the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire or any other space faring military super-power from the Star Wars universe, its easily conceivable in my mind that the Covenant Empire and whichever allies would flock to its side would command a military and economy just as large and technologically advanced as that of the Galactic Empire at its height, if not significantly greater taking into account the size of our galaxy.
I’m not saying it’s an inevitable conclusion that the Covenant, UNSC, Forerunner remnants and whichever other space-faring interstellar powers exist in the Halo Universe would be able to crush the Galactic Republic, Empire and Rebel Alliance given sufficient time to do so.
There is just far too much we don’t know about how large or small the Covenant Empire really is, how many inhabited systems across the galaxy in controls, the size of the Covenant’s own Starfleet, the political status of the galaxy at large, or how many ground troops and starship's they could commit to a full scale invasion of the Galactic Empire given the chance.
That is my main point, which would make any theoretical clash between military forces from these two Universe’s inconclusive in my opinion. (And I’d much rather see what happens when Imperial Stormtroopers fight Starfleet’s red-shirted security guards, as you’ll have the troops who can’t hit anything vs the troops who always get killed. That would be entertaining)
haha, love it! I totally agree with you! BFF...
Star wars
Halo universe would destroy the Star Wars with the flood.
ChasCT2 wrote:
Nadesicle wrote:
Star Wars, without a doubt.
Not that, that^ wasn't indepth but would you care to cover a lil more ground as to why SW wins.
I for one look forward to how they plan on explaining how they can even fight back given how Star Wars canonically can't leave their galaxy unlike the Halo factions, has no defense against intergalactic artillery sniping them from the Milky Way (fun fact, they can be all killed by it before it actually finishes charging because of how badly it -Yoinks!- up space and time), and is vastly outmatched by the industry of a single Forerunner (Ur-Didact).

"The Sharpened Shield is roughly 300 million km in diameter with a G2 type star slightly smaller than Sol at the core, with a volume of roughly 7 septillion km^3 she boasted a habitable surface area of 255 quadrillion km^2 (some 550 million times the surface area of Earth). Assuming the Shield has a paltry 2 km thick shell the overall volume of the structure would equal 282 quadrillion km^3 of material (which assuming it had a density of iron would weigh more than the sun itself); even if Didact began construction of the project immediately following the end of the Human-Forerunner war and it continued up until his exile in an 8,000 year time period as a lower limit the Forerunners would have to assemble 1,120,716 cubic kilometers of material per second. To put it into accepted SW-vs-ST parlance, that's the equivalent of manufacturing the second Death Star every five minutes, non-stop, for nearly eight thousand years - or stripping away an Earth sized planet every nine days. And despite this gargantuan effort the Shield wasn't the only of of its kind, many more were built and hidden across the galaxy - and to add insult to injury not only was this a secret project, it was swept underthe rug by Faber because he preferred the Halo Array.

Mike Wong relates some of the engineering difficulties with a construct of this scale when discussing a smaller Dyson Sphere on his Size Matters page:

From an engineering standpoint, the Dyson Sphere can be thought of as a thin-walled spherical pressure vessel, and the gravitational force can be thought of as the "pressure" (once it's divided by the internal surface area, of course). The mass of the sphere is 2E30 kg, the mass of the star is 1E30 kg, and the radius is 1E11 m, so Newton's law of gravitation gives us 1.33E28 N. The internal surface area of the sphere is 1.26E23 m², so the equivalent "pressure" would be roughly 106 kPa.

Now, that's not a lot of pressure (it's roughly 1 bar), but it's acting over an enormous surface, and that comes into play when you try to calculate the resulting stress in the sphere wall. The equation for in-plane stress in a thin-walled spherical pressure vessel is pr/2t where p = pressure, r = radius and t = shell thickness, so the tensile stress on the shell would be roughly 2.65 TPa! To put this in perspective, it's roughly ten thousand times the yield strength of structural steel. Not bad, eh? It's also insensitive to the exact wall thickness of the sphere, because a thicker wall will increase the load-bearing area but it will also increase the mass of the sphere and hence the load (a full derivation would show the wall thickness term cancelling out).

As if it isn't enough to need steel which is ten thousand times stronger than normal, we still have to consider the construction problem: how would you build such a beast? A full sphere would have at least twice the mass of the star but the effect of its gravity on the star would be symmetrical and therefore nullified, so that the star isn't disrupted. However, what if they've got only one quarter of the sphere done? That would pull the star to one side, severely disrupting it in the process. They would have to carefully balance the construction of countless trillions of balanced segments around the star as they build the sphere so that symmetry is preserved at all times, and they would have to use huge engines to hold these pieces in place until they can be joined together into the finished sphere.

This is again supported during the final episode of Spartan Ops - the Exodus - in which the shield world Requiem (0001) plummets into her native star as part of a self-destruct sequence. What's remarkable to note is that even up until her final decent into the photosphere she remains entirely intact, with zerosigns of deformation or surface heating despite the extreme amount of thermal radiation bombarding the massive shell. At a mere 14 million kilometers from the surface of a main sequence star the energy received by a planetary body is around 137,000 W/m^2, with surface temperatures averaging over 2000 K, making the surface glow red hot. However at this range the Roche limit has long since been bypassed by the vast majority of planetary bodies, causing extreme deformation as a result of tidal stresses that tear the body apart. At a diameter of 10,787 km, Requiem, prior to entering the photosphere is absorbing radiation at an intensity of roughly 62 MW/m^2 with an equilibrium temperature of 7235 K across the entire surface, nearly one and a third times the boiling point of tungsten. Coupled with the extreme temperatures any mass approaching a star undergoes the forces of electromagnetic pressure as a result of radiation force, in the above example Requiem is sustaining pressures greater than 500 billion times that of the surface of the Earth, 6,000 times the ultimate yield of high strength steel alloy.

Now this I recognise lol,and for me it's the reason Halo would win not on the shoulders of the Forerunners alone but knowing Ancient Humanity and the Ancient Sanshy'um were at this level of production and technology only bested by the Forerunners in slipspace ability.

in a normal war numbers may trump weaponry but when you can artificially create intelligent Machines of War such as sentinels,Guardians,Promethean's,War sphinxes and so on the real war becomes about power and production. Create a star destroyer inside of two months? How about growing a fleet of thousands of War sphinxes which have more fire power and a much smaller target to hit with no need for a pilot in hours.

its all about production.
timh1990 wrote:
I see a lot of comments here from people who seem to think that in a major confrontation between the factions from these 2 universe’s be it ship to ship, fleet to fleet or all out total war, it would be a slam dunk that the Galactic Republic or its Imperial successor would come out on top.
In the real world if one nation plans to declare war upon another, it has know in advance that said war can be won with the resources they have available. For this, they need among many other things up to date and accurate intelligence on;
  • The size and distribution of the target nations military forces and civilian population
  • Their economic capabilities and access to raw materials, essentially how long their potential adversaries can sustain a war of defence or attack.
  • An accurate understanding of their target nations technological capabilities, exactly how much damage they are capable of doing in a worst case scenario
We have a great deal of information on the capabilities of the Galactic Empire at its height, which if I remember correctly from the old Legends canon collated to;
  • 1,500,000 member worlds divided into 1,024 administrative sub-sectors, and 20 over-sectors
  • 69,000,000 colonies affiliated to various member worlds
  • An Imperial Starfleet which numbers 25,000 Star Destroyer’s capital ships, and millions of battlecruisers, auxiliary ships and support vessels, as well as Ground forces that number in the billions or trillions, perhaps higher. (25,000 Star Destroyers to police so many inhabited systems and planets has always seemed ridiculously small in my opinion. Just like 3,000,000 Clone Troopers to fight a galactic scale war when WWII involved much higher numbers of troops. 40k gets through that number of troops before breakfast every morning.)
  • A collective galactic population of 100,000,000,000,000,000, the majority of which live under the Galactic Republic or Empire. (In laymen terms, tax-payers, an expansionist empire’s best friend. Broken down, this means aprox 1,418,439,000 galatic citizens per inhabited member world or colony, but in reality member worlds (usually a species homeworld) number in the billions or higher, taking the average population by colony down)
All very impressive figures yes.
However the point is that that unlike the Galactic Empire, no one on this forum can provide equivalent figures for how many inhabited planets, capital ships or ground troops the Covenant Empire commanded at its height throughout the Milky Way Galaxy, or the full capabilities of their technology. For this reason, no one can be sure that in either a single ship-to-ship battle or full scale galactic war, that the Galactic Empire or its democratic predecessor would command enough resources, ships and troops to overwhelm the Covenant before the Hegemony could strike back with equal or greater force, or just how strong that counter-attack will be, or where it will eventually end. (A war that starts at Sangheilios or High Charity could well end at Coruscant or vise-versa, if one side has the resources to push it there)
More importantly, the title of this thread is Star Wars vs Halo, therefore in a direct confrontation the Galactic Empire is not going to be just fighting the UNSC or just fighting the Covenant.
In either case, in the event of full scale war with the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire or any other space faring military super-power from the Star Wars universe, its easily conceivable in my mind that the Covenant Empire and whichever allies would flock to its side would command a military and economy just as large and technologically advanced as that of the Galactic Empire at its height, if not significantly greater taking into account the size of our galaxy.
I’m not saying it’s an inevitable conclusion that the Covenant, UNSC, Forerunner remnants and whichever other space-faring interstellar powers exist in the Halo Universe would be able to crush the Galactic Republic, Empire and Rebel Alliance given sufficient time to do so.
There is just far too much we don’t know about how large or small the Covenant Empire really is, how many inhabited systems across the galaxy in controls, the size of the Covenant’s own Starfleet, the political status of the galaxy at large, or how many ground troops and starship's they could commit to a full scale invasion of the Galactic Empire given the chance.
That is my main point, which would make any theoretical clash between military forces from these two Universe’s inconclusive in my opinion. (And I’d much rather see what happens when Imperial Stormtroopers fight Starfleet’s red-shirted security guards, as you’ll have the troops who can’t hit anything vs the troops who always get killed. That would be entertaining)
Actually , the fact that the Battle of Earth essentially broke the covenant which then splintered into many different factions tells us a great deal about their size. Obviously their seat of power was the trio of san-shyum prophets. We are also told several times that the san-shyum are on the verge of extinction. They have a handful of semi-intelligent species enslaved (Kig-yar , Ungoy , Lekgolo [and their sub-species] ) and a couple of intelligent species as commanders (Brutes , and Sanghelii) , of which only Kigyar and Sanghelii had reached spacefaring tech before the San-shyum showed up. Any other races in the Hegemony are non military / noncombatants or the covenant would have used them. (Looking at hurogoks).
Also , as for troopers who can't hit ; In A New Hope , we see stormtroopers blow a hole in a door , proceed to step into the kill box they just created and slaughter every rebel in the hallway. Only after this do we see them being horribly inaccurate on the Deathstar ; when Vader is actively herding our Heroes back to the Falcon ; they are ordered to miss so the Empire can track the Falcon back to the "Hidden Rebel Base".
Also , if you look at the original thread , It was not supposed to be an argument about the whole of each universe , but a comparison of one thing against the other universes same things.
I.E. - ship to ship , Trooper on trooper , Small Moon vs space station.
Sunsdune wrote:
Actually , the fact that the Battle of Earth essentially broke the covenant which then splintered into many different factions tells us a great deal about their size. Obviously their seat of power was the trio of san-shyum prophets. We are also told several times that the san-shyum are on the verge of extinction. They have a handful of semi-intelligent species enslaved (Kig-yar , Ungoy , Lekgolo [and their sub-species] ) and a couple of intelligent species as commanders (Brutes , and Sanghelii) , of which only Kigyar and Sanghelii had reached spacefaring tech before the San-shyum showed up.Any other races in the Hegemony are non military / noncombatants or the covenant would have used them. (Looking at hurogoks).
The battle of Earth wasn’t what broke the Covenant. The UNSC were just insanely lucky that the Covenant which had been stable for the past 3404 years suffered an ideological Schism completely unrelated to the human-covenant war, just days before the battle of Earth ended in the UNSC total defeat.

And the fact that the Great Schism resulted in a civil war tells us nothing what so ever about how large a force the Covenant Empire was in the Milky Way Galaxy at that time, it only confirms it was politically unstable. If anything, the biggest parallel to the Great Schism is the way the Galactic Empire descended into civil war between various warlords after the Emperor was killed at Endor in the original legends timeline.

In terms of the Covenant population, the following statistics may give you pause for thought.

The Sangheili are the backbone of the Covenant military and economy, and of all the alien races that comprises its members it was the first we know of to achieve FTL and begin establishing interstellar colonies as of 938 AD, if not many centuries or millennia before.

If we assume Sangheilios's total population was 8 billion as of 938 AD (very possible), and apply the same level of current day human population growth per year (anyone who thinks it would be less because ‘humans are awesome’ are kidding themselves), then as of 2552 the Sangheili’s total population would be;
  • 961,786,385,564,510,000,000,000,000
First off, it’s already been established in prior debates that even if there was a minimum of one inhabited planet for every one of the Milky Way galaxies 400 billion stars, there still wouldn’t be enough room for every human represented by the above number to stand, let alone if they were Sangheili.

Despite this, the above mathematics shows that if the Sangheili alone really have had access to FTL since 938 AD, then as of 2552 they could have very plausibly established off-world colonies of equal population to their home-world in every star system of the Milky Way Galaxy by 2552. This alone would give the Covenant Empire a total population of;
  • 3,200,000,000,000,000,000,000
This would mean that they outnumber the Galactic Empire at its height by a factor 0f 32,000 to 1 if my maths is right in terms of total population, war materials and shear number of ships and troops they could muster. And on top of that, the Galactic Empire and the Republic that preceded it had only been a space-faring interstellar power for approximately 25,000 years according to the old canon timeline. While the Covenant Empire had only been a space-faring power for only a fraction of this time, they have the benefit that they’ve reverse engineered much of their technology from an alien race who had over half a million years to perfect their own technologically. This is exactly why the Covenant have the technological understanding to equip the backbone of their ground troops with personnel energy shielding, whilst the Galactic Empire’s ground troops and their clone predecessors can only equip their troops with post-modern ballistic armour which I have yet to save actually save a troopers life from a directed energy blast.

As anyone who’s played Halo knows all too well, a Sangheili’s energy shielding can stand up to the better half of a clip from either a ballistic slug thrower or plasma rifle, Halo’s equivalent to blasters.

You really think the Empire could win without a shadow of the doubt against those odds?

Sunsdune wrote:
Also , as for troopers who can't hit ; In A New Hope , we see stormtroopers blow a hole in a door , proceed to step into the kill box they just created and slaughter every rebel in the hallway. Only after this do we see them being horribly inaccurate on the Deathstar ; when Vader is actively herding our Heroes back to the Falcon ; they are ordered to miss so the Empire can track the Falcon back to the "Hidden Rebel Base".
Very true and yes, Operation Domino, the stormtrooper’s assault on the Rebel Blockade Runner and the battle of Hoth all indicates the Galactic Empire military is a force to be reckoned with. (My comment was intended to be more some light hearted humour, as both Stormtroopers and red-shirts are universally recognized as TV tropes due to their combat history and survival rate to date)

At the same time, the Imperial Stormtrooper’s and Navy’s performance during the Battle of Endor would given me serious concerns about the reliability of their equipment at least if you were expecting them to go up against a legion of battle-hardened Sangheili.

Put simply, if 10,000 Imperial stormtrooper’s with armoured support lack the armour necessary to protect them from being massacred by 3 foot tall Ewok’s with spears, bows and arrows, how are they going to perform against 10,000 Sangheili warriors equipped with plasma rifles, personnel energy shielding, tanks, scarab siege platforms and artillery?

The Imperial Starfleet didn’t fare much better either, and again if 30 Star Destroyers, 1 Super Star Destroyer, 1 Death Star and hundreds of TIE fighters couldn’t defeat a numerically inferior Rebel fleet consisting mostly on converted civilian vessels, what chance will it stand against a Covenant armada of warship of equal and greater size, led by a 30 kilometre long CSO-class Super Carrier?

The Imperial Stormtroopers, Imperial Navy and Imperial military in general were not organized or equipped to fight an external threat, their peacekeepers meant to keep rebellious worlds in check. The same can’t be said of the Covenant military, as we know Sangheili officers are promoted based specially on the number of enemies they had personally slain in battle, which suggests full scale interstellar wars are frequent if not a perpetual never ending occurrence for the Covenant Empire.

That’s what could be the descending factor in my opinion, but again without more information of the Covenant's history and position in the galaxy at large, we don’t know.

Sunsdune wrote:
Also , if you look at the original thread , It was not supposed to be an argument about the whole of each universe , but a comparison of one thing against the other universes same things.
I.E. - ship to ship , Trooper on trooper , Small Moon vs space station.
Again this is correct, but in this case once again, it’s the Halo Universe which has the larger starship’s and space stations, if you take into account massive constructs like the Halo’s, Ark and Precursor creations. (A CAS-class Assault Carrier over 3 times the overall length and size of a Star Destroyer)

haha, love it! I totally agree with you! BFF...
Thanks buddy.
ChasCT2 wrote:
Nadesicle wrote:
Star Wars, without a doubt.
Not that, that^ wasn't indepth but would you care to cover a lil more ground as to why SW wins.
I for one look forward to how they plan on explaining how they can even fight back given how Star Wars canonically can't leave their galaxy unlike the Halo factions, has no defense against intergalactic artillery sniping them from the Milky Way (fun fact, they can be all killed by it before it actually finishes charging because of how badly it -Yoinks!- up space and time), and is vastly outmatched by the industry of a single Forerunner (Ur-Didact).

"The Sharpened Shield is roughly 300 million km in diameter with a G2 type star slightly smaller than Sol at the core, with a volume of roughly 7 septillion km^3 she boasted a habitable surface area of 255 quadrillion km^2 (some 550 million times the surface area of Earth). Assuming the Shield has a paltry 2 km thick shell the overall volume of the structure would equal 282 quadrillion km^3 of material (which assuming it had a density of iron would weigh more than the sun itself); even if Didact began construction of the project immediately following the end of the Human-Forerunner war and it continued up until his exile in an 8,000 year time period as a lower limit the Forerunners would have to assemble 1,120,716 cubic kilometers of material per second. To put it into accepted SW-vs-ST parlance, that's the equivalent of manufacturing the second Death Star every five minutes, non-stop, for nearly eight thousand years - or stripping away an Earth sized planet every nine days. And despite this gargantuan effort the Shield wasn't the only of of its kind, many more were built and hidden across the galaxy - and to add insult to injury not only was this a secret project, it was swept underthe rug by Faber because he preferred the Halo Array.

Mike Wong relates some of the engineering difficulties with a construct of this scale when discussing a smaller Dyson Sphere on his Size Matters page:

From an engineering standpoint, the Dyson Sphere can be thought of as a thin-walled spherical pressure vessel, and the gravitational force can be thought of as the "pressure" (once it's divided by the internal surface area, of course). The mass of the sphere is 2E30 kg, the mass of the star is 1E30 kg, and the radius is 1E11 m, so Newton's law of gravitation gives us 1.33E28 N. The internal surface area of the sphere is 1.26E23 m², so the equivalent "pressure" would be roughly 106 kPa.

Now, that's not a lot of pressure (it's roughly 1 bar), but it's acting over an enormous surface, and that comes into play when you try to calculate the resulting stress in the sphere wall. The equation for in-plane stress in a thin-walled spherical pressure vessel is pr/2t where p = pressure, r = radius and t = shell thickness, so the tensile stress on the shell would be roughly 2.65 TPa! To put this in perspective, it's roughly ten thousand times the yield strength of structural steel. Not bad, eh? It's also insensitive to the exact wall thickness of the sphere, because a thicker wall will increase the load-bearing area but it will also increase the mass of the sphere and hence the load (a full derivation would show the wall thickness term cancelling out).

As if it isn't enough to need steel which is ten thousand times stronger than normal, we still have to consider the construction problem: how would you build such a beast? A full sphere would have at least twice the mass of the star but the effect of its gravity on the star would be symmetrical and therefore nullified, so that the star isn't disrupted. However, what if they've got only one quarter of the sphere done? That would pull the star to one side, severely disrupting it in the process. They would have to carefully balance the construction of countless trillions of balanced segments around the star as they build the sphere so that symmetry is preserved at all times, and they would have to use huge engines to hold these pieces in place until they can be joined together into the finished sphere.

This is again supported during the final episode of Spartan Ops - the Exodus - in which the shield world Requiem (0001) plummets into her native star as part of a self-destruct sequence. What's remarkable to note is that even up until her final decent into the photosphere she remains entirely intact, with zerosigns of deformation or surface heating despite the extreme amount of thermal radiation bombarding the massive shell. At a mere 14 million kilometers from the surface of a main sequence star the energy received by a planetary body is around 137,000 W/m^2, with surface temperatures averaging over 2000 K, making the surface glow red hot. However at this range the Roche limit has long since been bypassed by the vast majority of planetary bodies, causing extreme deformation as a result of tidal stresses that tear the body apart. At a diameter of 10,787 km, Requiem, prior to entering the photosphere is absorbing radiation at an intensity of roughly 62 MW/m^2 with an equilibrium temperature of 7235 K across the entire surface, nearly one and a third times the boiling point of tungsten. Coupled with the extreme temperatures any mass approaching a star undergoes the forces of electromagnetic pressure as a result of radiation force, in the above example Requiem is sustaining pressures greater than 500 billion times that of the surface of the Earth, 6,000 times the ultimate yield of high strength steel alloy.

Now this I recognise lol,and for me it's the reason Halo would win not on the shoulders of the Forerunners alone but knowing Ancient Humanity and the Ancient Sanshy'um were at this level of production and technology only bested by the Forerunners in slipspace ability.

in a normal war numbers may trump weaponry but when you can artificially create intelligent Machines of War such as sentinels,Guardians,Promethean's,War sphinxes and so on the real war becomes about power and production. Create a star destroyer inside of two months? How about growing a fleet of thousands of War sphinxes which have more fire power and a much smaller target to hit with no need for a pilot in hours.

its all about production.
And logistics. The production by itself means nothing if you don't have the logistics to support it. Kinda like what happened to the Droid Army in Legends canon. They had quintillions of battle droids but because they didn't have enough ships to transport them all, most if not all of them never saw battle and was one of the reasons why the Republic was able to hold them off with only a few million Clones (who apparently had a 10-1 kill ratio against B1s. :V) throughout the war. Unfortunately for them, the Forerunners don't have such issues with their logistics and can still produce fleets numbering close to a million ships desperate losing 2/3 of their empire, their AIs, diverting most of their resources to the new Halo Array and Lesser Ark, and having their leadership wiped out all while fighting a war across the remains of their empire.
100% odds of victory for the Flood over a unified Star Wars universe. (The Star Roads' power and indestructibility being the defining factors)
90% odds of victory for the Forerunners over a unified Star Wars universe. (The Halos, Guardians, Composers, AI Suppressors, etc. being some of the defining factors).
The Covenant is close enough to even odds against similar numbers of almost any faction in Star Wars that I think it makes for good debate topic.
timh1990 wrote:
Sunsdune wrote:
Actually , the fact that the Battle of Earth essentially broke the covenant which then splintered into many different factions tells us a great deal about their size. Obviously their seat of power was the trio of san-shyum prophets. We are also told several times that the san-shyum are on the verge of extinction. They have a handful of semi-intelligent species enslaved (Kig-yar , Ungoy , Lekgolo [and their sub-species] ) and a couple of intelligent species as commanders (Brutes , and Sanghelii) , of which only Kigyar and Sanghelii had reached spacefaring tech before the San-shyum showed up.Any other races in the Hegemony are non military / noncombatants or the covenant would have used them. (Looking at hurogoks).
The battle of Earth wasn’t what broke the Covenant. The UNSC were just insanely lucky that the Covenant which had been stable for the past 3404 years suffered an ideological Schism completely unrelated to the human-covenant war, just days before the battle of Earth ended in the UNSC total defeat.

And the fact that the Great Schism resulted in a civil war tells us nothing what so ever about how large a force the Covenant Empire was in the Milky Way Galaxy at that time, it only confirms it was politically unstable. If anything, the biggest parallel to the Great Schism is the way the Galactic Empire descended into civil war between various warlords after the Emperor was killed at Endor in the original legends timeline.

In terms of the Covenant population, the following statistics may give you pause for thought.

The Sangheili are the backbone of the Covenant military and economy, and of all the alien races that comprises its members it was the first we know of to achieve FTL and begin establishing interstellar colonies as of 938 AD, if not many centuries or millennia before.

If we assume Sangheilios's total population was 8 billion as of 938 AD (very possible), and apply the same level of current day human population growth per year (anyone who thinks it would be less because ‘humans are awesome’ are kidding themselves), then as of 2552 the Sangheili’s total population would be;
  • 961,786,385,564,510,000,000,000,000
First off, it’s already been established in prior debates that even if there was a minimum of one inhabited planet for every one of the Milky Way galaxies 400 billion stars, there still wouldn’t be enough room for every human represented by the above number to stand, let alone if they were Sangheili.

Despite this, the above mathematics shows that if the Sangheili alone really have had access to FTL since 938 AD, then as of 2552 they could have very plausibly established off-world colonies of equal population to their home-world in every star system of the Milky Way Galaxy by 2552. This alone would give the Covenant Empire a total population of;
  • 3,200,000,000,000,000,000,000
This would mean that they outnumber the Galactic Empire at its height by a factor 0f 32,000 to 1 if my maths is right in terms of total population, war materials and shear number of ships and troops they could muster.
A planet, or 400 billion planets needed to support 3.2 sextillion Elites, can't be colonized overnight--it takes manpower, resources, the know-how, and most importantly, time. Humanity, for example, took 410 years to establish 800 colonies. They weren't all planets, either; some were nothing more than one-manned outposts.

To have enough space for 3.2 sextillion Elites by 2552 A.C.E, they would have had to colonize 240,384,616 planets similar--both in size and resources--to Sanghelios every year.
Are Mary Sues allowed in this? Whilst I think Halo takes this, if that Mary Sue girl from the Farce Awakens is included they may take it...she will all of a sudden learn that she can emanate Halo pulse waves from her armpits and win.
The amount of sort inaccurate information/big bad assumptions and so in in this thread, for both sides is quite high...

Also people seem to keep forgetting the newer things and even the Created as a force.
erickyboo wrote:
The amount of sort inaccurate information/big bad assumptions and so in in this thread, for both sides is quite high...

Also people seem to keep forgetting the newer things and even the Created as a force.
True both sides are pushing the limits of their chosen side.

to be far the Covies,UNSC,Forerunners,Precursors and the flood are relatively well known quantities or at least known well enough that we can slide show what each is capable of while the Created?. Not so much I mean we know about how many tasks they perform per second etc but we have no idea how large a force each one commands or if all the power is consolidated with Cortana. Their abilities and economy just aren't known well enough yet.

same goes for the Banished, we have no real info on wether they are a small group of elite guerrilla fighters (numbering in the thousands is still small when in comparison to numbers like millions.) or if they really are a large almost Empire like entity themselves that was truly capable of going toe to toe with the covenant Hegemony.
JNDreher wrote:
100% odds of victory for the Flood over a unified Star Wars universe. (The Star Roads' power and indestructibility being the defining factors)
90% odds of victory for the Forerunners over a unified Star Wars universe. (The Halos, Guardians, Composers, AI Suppressors, etc. being some of the defining factors).
The Covenant is close enough to even odds against similar numbers of almost any faction in Star Wars that I think it makes for good debate topic.
I would ask which SW faction(s) you're referring to--Infinite Empire, Ancient Sith, True Sith, Old Republic, CIS, Galactic Empire, New Republic, First Order--but it wouldn't matter. Not against the Forerunners, at least.

The Flood, maybe. Yes, yes. I know the Flood defeated the Forerunners but consider the circumstances: The Forerunners were slow to adopt a policy of total annihilation, allowing the Flood not only to grow in numbers but add to their collective intelligence; fancy shmancy A.I.s betrayed them; and their leadership was plagued by infighting.

Now let's take a look at the First Order. Since the government is a military dictatorship, it's under the absolute control of one individual, Snoke (This isn't a committee.) . No reliance on A.I.s whatsoever. And while Forerunners are more advanced than any civilization in SW, the First Order has the better tool for this particular job: Starkiller base, a superweapon capable of destroying solar systems.

So no, I don't see a Flood victory as a sure thing. Far from it.
It depends. If we only go by official Star Wars canon post-Disney, then I would say Halo would win.
If we go by the Legends continuity of Star Wars, then I would say Star Wars would win.
It depends. If we only go by official Star Wars canon post-Disney, then I would say Halo would win.
If we go by the Legends continuity of Star Wars, then I would say Star Wars would win.
See the trouble with threads like this is you need a dang committee to decide what's Canon,what works, how it works etc etc.

i mean SW fans are saying Jedi and Sith would be game changers.

yet from a Halo fans point of view the races from Halo come from a universe were the Force doesn't exist so if the fight happens in the Haloverse can the SW Jedi/Sith even access the force?.

If it takes place in the SW universe would the Force even have an effect on Halo races? They come from a universe outside of the Force meaning they exist outside of the Force.

i like both franchises more Halo than SW but still enjoy both.
Doesn't Matter, maybe they will both lose, because they both have the best tech
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