Halo vs Warhammer 40k

TheGrimPoppet wrote:

The big take aways it seems:
A) it can be detected before it is fired.
B) with Psyker powers, it could be predicted, and if there is a way to withstand it, it could be discovered and implemented in time.
C) it is stated as a frequency, but in order to travel faster than light, no medium could allow travel through it at such a speed (to my knowledge, I am not an expert)
D) it would therefore likely be a self propagating wave, similar to light.
E) with this being the case, normal substances cannot allow the wave to pass through and maintain its potency, as they would slow the wave or reflect it.
D) super-dense constructs would likely block the pulse. Most of the Imperium building materials for any thing fit that description.

Just realized how wordy that is.

Tl:Dr -
When a wave hits a substance, and continues to travel through it (like sound) it alters the speed of the wave, which also alters the frequency. That's why a muffled voice through a wall sounds very different.

Yeaaah, no. That real world science ain't jiving with the space magic element. Think about how thick/dense and multi-layered a shield world is, that ain't stopping the pulse, its out of real space or nothing.
It can be detected by Forerunners/Gravemind before it fires and as the examples above show, its already fired even when you detect it before hand (?!?!?)
Psykers? Hmm I suppose but the Emperor is the haunchest and he and his mate Malchador couldn't predict the Horus heresy in any useful way...chances of success here? I would say low.

S0259 wrote:

Warhammer has combined the warriors with religion more, which Halo just go more realistic and futuristic.

Sort of, I mean the Covenant, even now, are all bout dat religion. Forerunners are spiritual and almost religiously follow the Mantle.

TheGrimPoppet wrote:

FinishingFUEGO wrote:

TheGrimPoppet wrote:

Yeaaah, no. That real world science ain't jiving with the space magic element. Think about how thick/dense and multi-layered a shield world is, that ain't stopping the pulse, its out of real space or nothing.
It can be detected by Forerunners/Gravemind before it fires and as the examples above show, its already fired even when you detect it before hand (?!?!?)
Psykers? Hmm I suppose but the Emperor is the haunchest and he and his mate Malchador couldn't predict the Horus heresy in any useful way...chances of success here? I would say low.

Well, a few things with that:

Firstly, multiple times in this thread, it has been pointed out that Halo is much more greatly based upon reality and physics than 40k. So it makes sense to begin by applying basic physics to the scenario. Now, if it can penetrate a shield world, then we know that it doesn't act entirely as a wave from normal physics. But, it is important to question - what is a shield world constructed with? Are there any less armored apertures or even openings that might allow something to pass through easier?

Second, as I read it, you can detect its firing through time. That does not mean that at this point in time it has fired, it means that for time to not experience a Paradox, which most time interpretations seek to avoid, then it is now inevitable that it will be fired. (Because if you detect it will be fired, that is only possible if later on it is fired.)

The Emperor has the greatest Psychic Might, but did not use it for future prediction, whether by Hubris or Inability is unclear, though it is important to note that many psykers are only proficient in a few fields of psychic potential, hence why different races often have personal psychic powers. But, the Eldar make use of seeing the future all the time. That was partially why so many left the main worlds to live on out craft worlds before the birth of Slaanesh. And if you are considering their peak civilization, it would be know issue to such a calamitous event, long before there is even detection of it being fired.

In summary, I would say its highly likely that it could be predicted by a considerable amount time before it being fired, and at the peak of civilizations, it is more than likely that a substance can be created to withstand the wave. I suspect that Plascrete and similar substances can, but need more information on the makeup of a craftworld to compare.

Additional note - the biology of Space Marines is incredibly altered from that of normal, not only humans, but sentient races. Much of their Brain, Body, etc, go through considerable changes such that they hardly resemble humans. With the wave so delicately targeting a specific frequency, any deviation on the spinal fluid would result in a different resonance frequency, rendering the wave ineffective. Not to mention the Necrons, who don't have spinal fluid.

Final Note - bear in mind that since the OP stated all factions at peak strength, you are not taking into account the C'tan and Old Ones, who not only are unaffected by a Halo Wave, but can shape reality with their minds...

Granted Halo is more grounded than 40k; but it has plenty of it's 'space magic explains it' moments, even something as well thought out like Star Trek has space magic hand waves. So unfortunately in this circumstance 'space magic' really does count.

Shield worlds, as far as I know, are constructed from Hard-light and that extremely resistant metal they make their ships out of, the stuff that Earth's ODP's couldn't even dent, I would wager many orders of magnitude stronger than plascrete (do you mean plasteel or ceramite?). Like Requiem they can open to let things in but otherwise they are completely sealed tight and some have multiple layers.

Difference in reading. I read it as it had definitely been fired, as attested to by the Iso-Didact pretty much saying it was inevitable, the pre-echoes were evidence it had been fired; and the Halo's waves sheer magnitude was somehow 'infinite' and breached time so they could detect it. If it was only a maybe; and a detectable maybe at that, then the Gravemind would have made a bee-line for the Ark whilst the things were still under construction. From the examples shown he could obviously detect the effects of the things, despite it not actually having been fired in the time he was inhabiting.

Didn't consider the Eldar, however, same thing as with the Emperor, they didn't foresee and stop the single most devastating thing to happen to their race, something far less alien and mysterious than a Halo firing, literally 'lets stop being hedonistic sadists and not birth a soul eating hell monster.' You don't have to be psychic to even detect that, they had made their own deities by projecting and refining their intent, how in the heck did they not foresee all of that raw, psychically linked emotion doing something?
Eldar that moved away to the fringes, if I remember correctly, were the relatively few Puritanical Eldar who hated what the once noble race had become and sought new pastures for a clean break, rather than some grand prediction. Also what will they do when the Halo's are parked outside of the Galaxy and simply snipe in across the gulf between galaxies? They pop their heads out of the webway (I assume everyone would want to hide in there as opposed to the tumultuous and hostile warp) and get blasted again.

Spartan's, Elites, Unggoy etc. as well as the other myriad races we don't know about, are all susceptible to the Halo wave, nothing about a Space Marine, which is still at it's base a human, suggests it would be immune. The wave was a one fits all life killer really, no fine balance to speak of. For the meat and bones of the debate no deities is in effect, as well as no halos. So no, C'tan, Ruinous powers etc. Old ones probably can be included seeing as they were able to be defeated by the Necrons. Returning to our side debate though - the Old Ones seemed to be corporeal and more akin to a standard advanced race rather than some abstract like a C'tan, what says that the Halo wouldn't affect them?

You mean the trillions of Warrior Servants who each command a million Forerunner combat AIs by themselves?

-Yoink- it. The whole premise of these arguments is stupid anyway.

How the hell can any universe win when you're literally just going to resurrect every single -Yoinking!- being of godlike-power in Halo's history, and stack the argument so heavily? I hope the Mass Effect argument didn't go down like this.

I remember when Halo was about human soldiers fighting against the Covenant. Hell, I'd probably have been more willing to accept that Halo would win if we'd just been going off Bungie's lore. Now we have all this stupid--Yoink- Forerunner crap going on, and honestly, it's so freaking lame and "BECUZ SPEHS MAGIK GUISE".

When it comes down to it, all this Forerunner -Yoink- might be more OP than Warhammer 40k - especially if there really are trillions of Prometheans - but it will never, ever be more badass. Only Bungie's Halo in the good old days could stand up to 40k like that, and only a return to old school Halo can give it that chance again - Halo Wars 2's tone is perfect, but even that stands to be sullied when 343 gets their grubby mitts back in the game.

Grim Looters wrote:

-Yoink- it. The whole premise of these arguments is stupid anyway.

How the hell can any universe win when you're literally just going to resurrect every single -Yoinking!- being of godlike-power in Halo's history, and stack the argument so heavily? I hope the Mass Effect argument didn't go down like this.

I remember when Halo was about human soldiers fighting against the Covenant. Hell, I'd probably have been more willing to accept that Halo would win if we'd just been going off Bungie's lore. Now we have all this stupid--Yoink- Forerunner crap going on, and honestly, it's so freaking lame and "BECUZ SPEHS MAGIK GUISE".

When it comes down to it, all this Forerunner -Yoink- might be more OP than Warhammer 40k - especially if there really are trillions of Prometheans - but it will never, ever be more badass. Only Bungie's Halo in the good old days could stand up to 40k like that, and only a return to old school Halo can give it that chance again - Halo Wars 2's tone is perfect, but even that stands to be sullied when 343 gets their grubby mitts back in the game.

I don't think this was ever about popularity, soo don't know where that came from, anyway tis all subjective, love me some Orks but the UNSC and their story is more badass than anything in 40k, of course, from my perspective.

It seems people were all kinds of happy when it was a ROFLSTOMP in favour of 40k for some reason; but when someone puts things in perspective and evens it out there is an issue? why bother coming to a forum about debates then? If the thought of being wrong or at least challenged bothers you, don't post.

Forerunners have ALWAYS been OP, from Bungie days: indestructible ships that with just one tenth of its power (or was it 1%?) managed to power High Charity, a series of rings that can wipe out a galaxy, janitors uniforms that put Mjolnir to shame, Onyx sentinels, time warping crystals, Monitors that weaponise slispace and command thousands of massive starships like nimble fighters...all during Bungies reign; 343 merely expanded on it, to varying degrees of quality, yes; but this trend has been Halo from dot.

UnrealFlash2007 wrote:

S 000 DeM wrote:

UnrealFlash2007 wrote:

Revitup 1997 wrote:

UnrealFlash2007 wrote:

Who cares? Warhammer is a universe that doesn't even attempt to appear credible. I cringe just taking a glance at the wiki.

I think the word you're looking for is "consistent," not "credible." How can the word credible even be applied to a made-up setting? None of it is real.

I know what I said. I couldn't give less of a -Yoink- about whether it stays true to it's own DBZ fanfic tier "lore". The only thing that matters is that everything in Warhammer is needlessly OP for the sake of being OP.

So what?

40k is literally "my first power fantasy", the franchise. Deviantart tier characters with horrendous weapon, armour and universe design and absolutely no thought or planning is put into the games that are sometimes shoved into the industry. The fact people here know anything about the universe is insulting, they're wasting time that could be better spent on anything else. If there was one thing in the universe I could erase from existence with all traces of it destroyed it would be Warhammer.

did you just revive this post to bash warhammer? well honestly I don't know much about warhammer but I don't think you should bash it on the grounds of op characters.

So, this post was necro'd for the sole purpose of angrily and irrationally bashing another franchise? Can we get this locked, please?

Octavian146 wrote:

Quote:

But okay, I give up, the Halo universe will win. WH:40K gets a biiig nerf, Forerunners just throw anything into slipspace that they don't like all the time that would be technologically superior, then supernovas fix any problem with a massivley outnumbering force because everyhing will line up there to be destroyed. and psykiks go ignored. Yes I can see Halo winning.

Did you miss the part where a single non-military ship can detect the genetic composition of life on a world light years away... and that a single ship scanned the entire LMC for life. They will know where their enemies are before their enemies know they exist!!!!

Their FTL is also magnitudes faster than warp travel. They can obliterate entire worlds before response fleets even hear the distress calls. If the 40k verse had rapid response the Nids would never be a threat.

We're not claiming they'll dump everything into slipspace or supernova all threats.

40k has also not been nerfed. The Gods have been removed. Which makes it a fair fight. Otherwise its a deity enhanced Curbstomp. If the gods were still in, even 40k would lose. because the instant the Forerunner glassed Terra, or the Precursors crushed it into dust, Chaos would steamroll the entire galaxy and kill every IOM human just like the Eldar.

If you take out the chaos gods you effectively cripple the forces of chaos, not to mention if the gods were in this comparison they would just send Demon waves after demon waves. When and if the forerunners could get past the defenses set up across the entirety of the Terran solar system to glass the planet; Roboute Guilliman(a man who defied death I do mind you) would most likely remake the Imperium Secundus, saving the rest of the Imperium. In addition with the eldar Webway and their usage of psyche powers would cripple and any real threat of an invasion on any true stronghold. You forget the true threat of a Tyranids invasion, (correct me if I’m wrong) they will eat the corpuses of dead forerunners and effectively learn a majority of their tactics, and the evolution of a new Tyranid strand.

ObjectiveDust4 wrote:

So, I think we all figured out that Halo thrashes Mass Effect. But, how does it far against the most OP of them all, Warhammer 40k?

Both Galaxies are combined by an act of ROB and both sides are identified. Old Races such as the Forerunners, Precursors and Ancient Humanity return, and W40K unifies to beat the Halo Universe. The Halo Universe does the same.

All Races of Halo are present. All the races in Warhammer 40k are also present, but C'Tan and Chaos gods are not included as that's too unpredicatable a factor.

Rules
All races are at their peak
No gods or Halos(Solar System weapons are fine as races from both universe had these and could do this easily)

My initial questions:

1. Does that mean all Primarchs are present?
2. Are we using the fiction for the comparison?
3. Are the Flood included in this and working alongside the rest of the Halo universe?

Points to note:

• 40K humanity has a galaxy-spanning Empire
• Necrons are ancient and powerful
• Tau and Necrons can destroy stars
• The Imperium can devastate entire planets
• Eldar have the webway
• Nids are effectively unending, with a fleet that extends far beyond the Milky Way Galaxy
• Spartans are small but effective, though not equal in power to a Space Marine
• Forerunner technology is highly advanced, utilising teleportation and the ability to create, move and destroy stars. They can also create planets and vast structures.
• Precursors are also powerful, though little is known of their numbers and abilities. But they were brought down by the Forerunners, so perhaps of equal stature.
• Both universes use shielding and FTL travel, though both of these vary considerably.
• Assessments need to be made on individuals, factions, ground combat, air combat and space combat.

Once I have the answers to the questions I've raised above, I can make a detailed assessment of the war.