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I think it’s more likely the show won’t be canon

OP TRUe REDEMPTI0N

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OP 11/8/2019

TRUe REDEMPTI0N

ODST - Onyx

It’s becoming more and more clear that the show will NOT be canon
Recently we got some casting news. Jacob and Miranda Keyes will be portrayed by David Sapani and Olive Gray. Charlie Murphy will play a new character called Makee, described as being an orphan raised by the Covenant to hate her own kind. These casting seem to indicate further and further that the show will NOT be canon. Firstly is the casting of David and Olive and the Keyes father and daughter. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the casting of these 2, the issue is who they’re cast as. The show is supposedly meant to fit into the canon. However, Jacob and Miranda are canonically white, and the show shouldn’t have violated the canon for no reason, or possibly for the sake of diversity points. Then the making of this Makee character raised by the Covenant. This heavily violates the canon as far as we know. The Covenant wouldn’t raise any Humans, including children, they saw all of us as vermin and heretics to their faith and gods. I started to get more faith in this show, then this came along and has pretty much shattered all my hopes. I’m now beginning to suspect it’s more and more likely that this show really won’t be canon, but it’s own little separate thing for TV. Really unfortunate, so wanted a canon Halo TV series. What’d you think, what’re your thoughts?

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11/8/2019

l Chaos I

Marine - Bronze

I already knew in todays political climate any TV Series made in the Halo Universe was going to violate everything fans of the Halo Franchise love about Halo. It is no secret they were race swapped to meet a diversity quota even though the directors could have just made new characters. Halo is a massive universe full of stories to be told and instead the Halo TV Series is already being run into the ground.

Human child raised by the Sangheili... HAHAHAHA!

NO!

The Covenant made it a point to exterminate Humanity throughout the Human-Covenant War. Men, Women and Children were being killed in the billions and it is inconceivable to imagine a orphaned child is going to be spared. This is a sad joke as for all its faults Forward Unto Dawn was at least a decent story told in the Halo Universe introducing us to new characters with cameos of our favorite Spartan-II's.

I'm not gonna watch this mess.

I am looking forward to the people who rip it apart in reviews though as the TV Series is ignoring what has already been established. This show is NOT CANON for me and will be ignored just like Halo Legends Odd One Out. The animated episode was at least enjoyable and while I have not seen the TV Series yet or what its plot is even about. My rating is a 0/5 until proven otherwise.

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11/8/2019

MasterOfWar6615

Marine - Silver

Look, I'm one of the few who will defend Halo 5's campaign, and even I admit this is going too far. WAY TOO FAR. Who came up with this? Have they even heard of Halo? Even if it's not canon (which it better not be) this is still just ******* ridiculous. 343. Please. Your games may have some major problems but your extended lore (apart from this) is fantastic. Wake up and put a stop to this nonsense please. As soon as I heard it was a lower-budget platform like Showtime my hype plummeted but now it's just gone entirely. As long as I can pretend this doesn't exist and the games/other extended lore continue to be as good as they have been I'll be happy.

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11/8/2019

shirtssss

Recruit - Onyx

The race swap is the least of the show's problems.

Producing low-budget garbage like this just hurts the brand further.

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11/8/2019

JNDreher

ODST - Iron

Is this casting seriously true?

Why can't they just write great characters, have them be whatever demographic they like, and leave established characters alone? The Halo universe is plenty big and diverse enough to accommodate any demographic in any facet of the story. If they did that, most people would like the characters, regardless of what majority or minority demographic they were a part of.

No one benefits from ethnicity-swapping an established character in a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic. It's a slap in the face to anyone who want to see the books/games they love depicted accurately in live action, and it's not fair to the actors who have to try to accomplish performances that measure up to a character that has the advantage of nostalgia (and usually better writing) over them.

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11/8/2019

shirtssss

Recruit - Onyx

JNDreher wrote:
Is this casting seriously true?

Why can't they just write great characters, have them be whatever demographic they like, and leave established characters alone? The Halo universe is plenty big and diverse enough to accommodate any demographic in any facet of the story. If they did that, most people would like the characters, regardless of what majority or minority demographic they were a part of.

No one benefits from ethnicity-swapping an established character in a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic. It's a slap in the face to anyone who want to see the books/games they love depicted accurately in live action, and it's not fair to the actors who have to try to accomplish performances that measure up to a character that has the advantage of nostalgia (and usually better writing) over them.

If a race change is the by-product of a reimagined take of a pre-existing character, then I'm cool with it.

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OP 11/8/2019

TRUe REDEMPTI0N

ODST - Onyx

JNDreher wrote:
Is this casting seriously true?

Why can't they just write great characters, have them be whatever demographic they like, and leave established characters alone? The Halo universe is plenty big and diverse enough to accommodate any demographic in any facet of the story. If they did that, most people would like the characters, regardless of what majority or minority demographic they were a part of.

No one benefits from ethnicity-swapping an established character in a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic. It's a slap in the face to anyone who want to see the books/games they love depicted accurately in live action, and it's not fair to the actors who have to try to accomplish performances that measure up to a character that has the advantage of nostalgia (and usually better writing) over them.

Exactly, I'm just waiting for the official word from 343 that the show isn't canon, and instead its own separate thing.

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11/8/2019

WerepyreND

ODST - Silver

More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.

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OP 11/8/2019

TRUe REDEMPTI0N

ODST - Onyx

WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.

The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.

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11/8/2019

shirtssss

Recruit - Onyx

TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.

Casting actors who can best project the essence of Jacob and Miranda Keyes is respecting the lore more than ticking off every physical descriptor, imo.

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OP 11/8/2019

TRUe REDEMPTI0N

ODST - Onyx

shirtssss wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
Casting actors who can best project the essence of Jacob and Miranda Keyes is respecting the lore more than ticking off every physical descriptor, imo.

True, and also good to match the physicality of the character if you're supposed to be staying in the consistency of the story.

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11/9/2019

LoneWolf4285

Marine - Bronze

WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.

This is an excerpt from an article about the show. It includes a quote by a person who I'm assuming is the director:

Link: https://www.pcgamer.com/halo-tv-series-showtime//

Kyle Killen has been tapped as writer and showrunner. Killen’s most recent work, the largely panned Mind Games, failed to anchor an audience past its first and only season. His earlier and more fruitful endeavors included Fox’s Lone Star and NBC’s Awake, both sharing the same fate and lasting only one season. While Killen is relatively unblooded in the deep sci-fi genre, his recurring interest in theming a protagonist around facing plural realities could serve as an intriguing foundation for exploring the supernatural aspects of Halo’s far-reaching universe.

On a TCA tour, Levine explained Killen’s selection over more experienced writers was a deliberate one, saying, “We made a conscious decision to hire a writer not known for sci-fi and not known for big battle movies or anything. Because that's already baked into the Halo franchise and we will service that. But we also want to ensure that we get underneath the formidable armor of the Spartans."

TLDR: The people behind this show have no idea how to handle the IP. At this point, I don't even care about the race swapping. This just looks like a dumpster fire that won't make it past its first season.

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11/9/2019

Maggai

Recruit - Bronze

Was really hoping this show would be good. Don't have much hope right now.

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11/9/2019

JNDreher

ODST - Iron

shirtssss wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
Casting actors who can best project the essence of Jacob and Miranda Keyes is respecting the lore more than ticking off every physical descriptor, imo.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like that's what's happening. The showrunners are ham-fistedly shoving their political ideologies into what used to be escapist entertainment, which always lowers the quality of the final product. The problem isn't that an established white character is cast by a black actor. The problem is that the reason the character was ethnicity-swapped was because he was a competent, likable leader, who happened to be a straight, white male... and as we all know the prevailing ideology of showrunners is "white-man-bad". I guarantee that if this show had an appearance of Captain Del Rio, they'd leave him white, because he's an antagonist who makes the wrong call when it comes to how to handle the Didact's return. And that is the problem. It's WHY they're making the changes, and the net affect on the quality of the show, not what specific changes are.

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11/9/2019

WerepyreND

ODST - Silver

TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.

You realize there is an enormous gap between "not getting hung up on minor changes or new additions" and "anything goes" right? Just because something will "respect the canon" doesn't mean it is going to be a good story well told. Haivng a neat little timeline of events that all line up with each other is nice, a sense of consistency in a wider franchise is nice, but not when it strangles creativity.

Every time someone says something along the lines of characters "being race swapped for no reason" I'm going to continue to point out there was no "reason" for most of this characters to be white in the first place.

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11/9/2019

JNDreher

ODST - Iron

WerepyreND wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
You realize there is an enormous gap between "not getting hung up on minor changes or new additions" and "anything goes" right? Just because something will "respect the canon" doesn't mean it is going to be a good story well told. Haivng a neat little timeline of events that all line up with each other is nice, a sense of consistency in a wider franchise is nice, but not when it strangles creativity.

Every time someone says something along the lines of characters "being race swapped for no reason" I'm going to continue to point out there was no "reason" for most of this characters to be white in the first place.

In the real world, there are innumerable great, true stories that all fit into this REAL, coherent universe. It's not too much to ask for the lore of a fictional universe to fit into one coherent canon. If a writer can't fit a story into a sprawling galaxy that's mostly open to be filled in, they're just not that good of a writer, or are at best, are not suited to writing for this franchise.

Also, a character doesn't have to be defined by their ethnic demographic to be influenced by it. When you change a character's ethnicity, it inevitably changes other aspects of the character. You change a lot more than just what a character looks like when you swap their ethnicity. Think about it. Do you think Sgt Johnson would be one of the most beloved characters in Halo if he were Swedish, or Korean? The whole package of who Sgt Avery Johnson is (including his ethnicity) gave us one of the most awesome characters in gaming. Change any aspect of him, and it's not the same character. The same goes for Captain Jacob Keyes. He doesn't need a reason to be white, he just is, just like how Sgt Johnson doesn't need a reason to be black.

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11/9/2019

WerepyreND

ODST - Silver

JNDreher wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
You realize there is an enormous gap between "not getting hung up on minor changes or new additions" and "anything goes" right? Just because something will "respect the canon" doesn't mean it is going to be a good story well told. Haivng a neat little timeline of events that all line up with each other is nice, a sense of consistency in a wider franchise is nice, but not when it strangles creativity.

Every time someone says something along the lines of characters "being race swapped for no reason" I'm going to continue to point out there was no "reason" for most of this characters to be white in the first place.
In the real world, there are innumerable great, true stories that all fit into this REAL, coherent universe. It's not too much to ask for the lore of a fictional universe to fit into one coherent canon. If a writer can't fit a story into a sprawling galaxy that's mostly open to be filled in, they're just not that good of a writer, or are at best, are not suited to writing for this franchise.

Also, a character doesn't have to be defined by their ethnic demographic to be influenced by it. When you change a character's ethnicity, it inevitably changes other aspects of the character. You change a lot more than just what a character looks like when you swap their ethnicity. Think about it. Do you think Sgt Johnson would be one of the most beloved characters in Halo if he were Swedish, or Korean? The whole package of who Sgt Avery Johnson is (including his ethnicity) gave us one of the most awesome characters in gaming. Change any aspect of him, and it's not the same character. The same goes for Captain Jacob Keyes. He doesn't need a reason to be white, he just is, just like how Sgt Johnson doesn't need a reason to be black.

I was wondering when someone would bring up Johnson. Why yes, it would be weird if a character that was a reference to Al Matthews in Aliens were Swedish or Korean because his ethnicity was actually baked into the character from the start. Keyes doesn't have that same type of background.

Even if we accepted that false equivalence, there is a big difference between swapping ethnicity of underrepresented minority characters and doing the same with the majority ethnicity. The former makes an already small list even smaller, and the latter is a drop in the bucket.

I talk about the "reasoning" for Keyes being white because the question of "why has a character got to be X" is almost exclusively aimed at minority representation regardless of whether they are a new character or not. The same folks who complain about others "ham-fistedly shoving their political ideologies into escapist entertainment" or having an "agenda" never accuse anyone who adds a white character of "pandering to a demographic."

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11/9/2019

USCRuss72

Marine - Silver

JNDreher wrote:
shirtssss wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
Casting actors who can best project the essence of Jacob and Miranda Keyes is respecting the lore more than ticking off every physical descriptor, imo.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like that's what's happening. The showrunners are ham-fistedly shoving their political ideologies into what used to be escapist entertainment, which always lowers the quality of the final product. The problem isn't that an established white character is cast by a black actor. The problem is that the reason the character was ethnicity-swapped was because he was a competent, likable leader, who happened to be a straight, white male... and as we all know the prevailing ideology of showrunners is "white-man-bad". I guarantee that if this show had an appearance of Captain Del Rio, they'd leave him white, because he's an antagonist who makes the wrong call when it comes to how to handle the Didact's return. And that is the problem. It's WHY they're making the changes, and the net affect on the quality of the show, not what specific changes are.

Finally someone says it!! I fear you'll probably be censored after this but at least you made a stand and spoke the truth.

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OP 11/9/2019

TRUe REDEMPTI0N

ODST - Onyx

WerepyreND wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
You realize there is an enormous gap between "not getting hung up on minor changes or new additions" and "anything goes" right? Just because something will "respect the canon" doesn't mean it is going to be a good story well told. Haivng a neat little timeline of events that all line up with each other is nice, a sense of consistency in a wider franchise is nice, but not when it strangles creativity.

Every time someone says something along the lines of characters "being race swapped for no reason" I'm going to continue to point out there was no "reason" for most of this characters to be white in the first place.

I’m not saying race matters, I’m talking about respecting the canon 1st and foremost. That’s the issue at hand, not this whole race thing, stop trying to make it that. The issue at hand is them not respecting the established canon.

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11/9/2019

WerepyreND

ODST - Silver

TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
TRUe REDEMPTI0N wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
More and more I find myself not giving a yoink! about whether something isn't "canon" or "doesn't fit the lore." I just want a good story well told. I want a great love action show set in the Halo universe, I could not care less it that results in certain details conflicting with "the lore."

The wider canon should be something we use to enrich the franchise as a whole, not something we use as a cudgel to stamp down any and all deviation.

As far as the casting goes, it is sad to see parts of the Halo community acting this way. Nothing about the Keyes' characterization is inextricably tied to them being white. It is curious how no one questions why they were made to be white in the first place. Clearly making them white was just a lazy attempt to pander to a demographic... sigh. Funny how the "pandering" "SJWs bad", "Get Woke, go broke" types only ever show up when minorities get cast in key roles and not when you see white male leads. They never ask for any narrative justification for that type of casting, what a coincidence.

On a final note: "This heavily violates the canon as far as we know." The bold part is kind of important. "We didn't know about this specific thing but now we do" is kind of the whole point of adding new things in the first place.
The canon should be respected, if not, then anything goes and that's honestly terrible. There should should be a single narrative, not flip floppy "anything goes", that's terrible. It has nothing to do with that they're black, it's that established characters are being race swapped for no reason. If they wanted these cast members in here, that's awesome,but don't change characters. If they want to deviate this far, that's fine. Just come out and say that this show isn't part of the canon and its own thing.
You realize there is an enormous gap between "not getting hung up on minor changes or new additions" and "anything goes" right? Just because something will "respect the canon" doesn't mean it is going to be a good story well told. Haivng a neat little timeline of events that all line up with each other is nice, a sense of consistency in a wider franchise is nice, but not when it strangles creativity.

Every time someone says something along the lines of characters "being race swapped for no reason" I'm going to continue to point out there was no "reason" for most of this characters to be white in the first place.
I’m not saying race matters, I’m talking about respecting the canon 1st and foremost. That’s the issue at hand, not this whole race thing, stop trying to make it that. The issue at hand is them not respecting the established canon.

Its hard for me to swallow the whole "I'm not saying race matters" when in your OP you speculate that the change was done "possibly for diversity points." I can't fathom how I'm the one trying to make it about race when I'm just hoping from a great performance from two actors, but you and other can't help but interject: bUt ThEy ArE cAnOniCalY wHiTe.

I'd rather have a good story than have them slavishly following "the canon" especially when "the canon" in one instance is keeping two characters white in an overwhelmingly white pop sci-fi space.

That being said, since It hasn't been clear, when I have been criticizing "the canon" when it is used as a tool to stomp out deviation I am also talking about the Mahkee character and the whole concept of a human being raised by Covenant. While that wouldn't have been my first choice as a plotline, I don't consider something we haven't seen before as being an egregious breech of canon. If we only stick to what has been previously been established, then The Fall of Reach should have been the only piece of Halo media ever published.

Following the established canon is not inherently going to make for a better narrative. Whether the show ends up being any good to remains to be seen, but if it ends up being bad, it won't be because they didn't "respect the canon" enough.

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