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Is it an act of heresy to use human technology?

OP ThreeCaesar5341

For example the Brutes using shotguns in Halo 2 or the Arbiter driving human vehicles, Would these be considered acts punishable by death within the Covenant?
We know the Covenant found the "crudeness" of human technology so distasteful, that if their own weapons became inoperable, they'd opt to fight with their bare hands instead of picking up human weapons. For that reason, I don't think there was any need for the Hierarchs to declare a punishment for using human weapons.

After the war though, some of the Covenant did see the value of human tech, such as the M6D, which performed exceedingly well in the war.
It was seen as dishonorable by the Elites to use Human weapons and other technology, thus why they never used Human technology until AFTER the Great Schism occurred. Lesser species like the Jackals and Grunts used Human tech, and the Grunts themselves were actually experts at deciphering Human communications and Human tech. Brutes didn't care about honor, and their belief in the Covenant religion system was strong but they otherwise didn't care much for things that Prophet or Elites would consider 'holy' (the way Tartarus treats 343 Guilty Spark at the Forerunner Gas Mine, or the Brute peeing on a Forerunner wall during The Ark). They had no limitations or hangups when it came to using the technology of the UNSC to wage war.

The only in-character reason the ARbiter uses Human weapons and vehicles before he switches sides and joins the UNSC is because he was already supremely dishonored for having allowed Alpha Halo to be destroyed. That's what the Mark of Shame he receives at the start of Halo 2 signifies, he will always have that mark and while he was part of the Covenant and believed in it, it would always say that he had no honor regardless of his actions.
No. This is not heresy. At least this is a lesser heresy than the unauthorized use of plasma swords by low-ranking elites.

Quote:
Great Council: Human weapons are primitive, mostly chemical and projectile in nature, but some are effective nonetheless. Our reliance on and expectation of energy-based weapons means that we may need to adjust our strategy when faced with the Human devices. However, the simplistic nature of Human weapons makes them open to analysis. Covenant weapons are always superior, but when faced with a choice of wielding no weapon or a Human weapon, our forces should acquire the nearest weapon at hand—even if Human. A basic understanding of how these primitive weapons work is important so that we may use these weapons to our advantage.
Quote:
Length: 3 feet.
Noble and ancient weapon, wielded by strongest of Sangheili, requires great skill and bravery to use, and inspires fear in those who face its elegant plasma blade. Energy sword not to be used by those of ignoble rank, under any circumstances.

The Covenant also knows about Gaussian weapons and probably used this technology on their ships:

Quote:
Ammo Capacity: Unlimited.
This curious Human weapon uses familiar magnetic-coil technology, but to accelerate primitive, though effective, projectiles at incredibly high speeds. Very effective and destructive against energy shielding. Not as effective against multiple ground forces.
Quote:
Council: In some ways more primitive than their weaponry, Human vehicles must be taken seriously nonetheless. Usually armed, and considering their wheeled limitations, remarkably agile, Human vehicles have been designed for this precise terrain. Specifications on these vehicles were simple to find in public and encrypted datastreams. We have gleaned little that we had not already assumed.
CREW: 1+1 (plus one more in rear)
Weight: 3.5 tons
Armament: 25mm Gauss Cannon
Identical in every respect to other Human personnel transport variants, except for turret-mounted magnetic-accelerator cannon. Fires single penetrating round at very high speed. Effect on shielding and armor must be respected.
I would suggest that Gaussian weapons can be used by covenants on their system defense monitors or on fighters like gigas.
The use of kinetic weapons for the Covenant is not a surprise. For example, it is known that they used heavy packaged autocannons on their fighters. I hope the 343i will mention such weapons somewhere in the near future.
At worst it was considered unclean, and the punishment would likely vary from commander to commander. A major in Halo: The flood killed a member of Jacob keys's bridge crew with a Pistol. A few unggoy commandos who were part of rtas 'Vadumee's team in fighting the flood on a covenant vessel during the events of alpha halo also used assault rifles
No. This is not heresy. At least this is a lesser heresy than the unauthorized use of plasma swords by low-ranking elites.

Quote:
Great Council: Human weapons are primitive, mostly chemical and projectile in nature, but some are effective nonetheless. Our reliance on and expectation of energy-based weapons means that we may need to adjust our strategy when faced with the Human devices. However, the simplistic nature of Human weapons makes them open to analysis. Covenant weapons are always superior, but when faced with a choice of wielding no weapon or a Human weapon, our forces should acquire the nearest weapon at hand—even if Human. A basic understanding of how these primitive weapons work is important so that we may use these weapons to our advantage.
Quote:
Length: 3 feet.
Noble and ancient weapon, wielded by strongest of Sangheili, requires great skill and bravery to use, and inspires fear in those who face its elegant plasma blade. Energy sword not to be used by those of ignoble rank, under any circumstances.

The Covenant also knows about Gaussian weapons and probably used this technology on their ships:

Quote:
Ammo Capacity: Unlimited.
This curious Human weapon uses familiar magnetic-coil technology, but to accelerate primitive, though effective, projectiles at incredibly high speeds. Very effective and destructive against energy shielding. Not as effective against multiple ground forces.
Quote:
Council: In some ways more primitive than their weaponry, Human vehicles must be taken seriously nonetheless. Usually armed, and considering their wheeled limitations, remarkably agile, Human vehicles have been designed for this precise terrain. Specifications on these vehicles were simple to find in public and encrypted datastreams. We have gleaned little that we had not already assumed.
CREW: 1+1 (plus one more in rear)
Weight: 3.5 tons
Armament: 25mm Gauss Cannon
Identical in every respect to other Human personnel transport variants, except for turret-mounted magnetic-accelerator cannon. Fires single penetrating round at very high speed. Effect on shielding and armor must be respected.
I would suggest that Gaussian weapons can be used by covenants on their system defense monitors or on fighters like gigas.
Where did you found the council quotes and are there more of them?
No. This is not heresy. At least this is a lesser heresy than the unauthorized use of plasma swords by low-ranking elites.

Quote:
Great Council: Human weapons are primitive, mostly chemical and projectile in nature, but some are effective nonetheless. Our reliance on and expectation of energy-based weapons means that we may need to adjust our strategy when faced with the Human devices. However, the simplistic nature of Human weapons makes them open to analysis. Covenant weapons are always superior, but when faced with a choice of wielding no weapon or a Human weapon, our forces should acquire the nearest weapon at hand—even if Human. A basic understanding of how these primitive weapons work is important so that we may use these weapons to our advantage.
Quote:
Length: 3 feet.
Noble and ancient weapon, wielded by strongest of Sangheili, requires great skill and bravery to use, and inspires fear in those who face its elegant plasma blade. Energy sword not to be used by those of ignoble rank, under any circumstances.

The Covenant also knows about Gaussian weapons and probably used this technology on their ships:

Quote:
Ammo Capacity: Unlimited.
This curious Human weapon uses familiar magnetic-coil technology, but to accelerate primitive, though effective, projectiles at incredibly high speeds. Very effective and destructive against energy shielding. Not as effective against multiple ground forces.
Quote:
Council: In some ways more primitive than their weaponry, Human vehicles must be taken seriously nonetheless. Usually armed, and considering their wheeled limitations, remarkably agile, Human vehicles have been designed for this precise terrain. Specifications on these vehicles were simple to find in public and encrypted datastreams. We have gleaned little that we had not already assumed.
CREW: 1+1 (plus one more in rear)
Weight: 3.5 tons
Armament: 25mm Gauss Cannon
Identical in every respect to other Human personnel transport variants, except for turret-mounted magnetic-accelerator cannon. Fires single penetrating round at very high speed. Effect on shielding and armor must be respected.
I would suggest that Gaussian weapons can be used by covenants on their system defense monitors or on fighters like gigas.
Where did you found the council quotes and are there more of them?
Halo 2 covenant manual. Yes.
Remember the only vehicle the Covenant seemed to respect is the Scorpion Tank.
The use of kinetic weapons for the Covenant is not a surprise. For example, it is known that they used heavy packaged autocannons on their fighters. I hope the 343i will mention such weapons somewhere in the near future.
Just a friendly reminder to not post multiple times in a row. Thank you.
The use of kinetic weapons for the Covenant is not a surprise. For example, it is known that they used heavy packaged autocannons on their fighters. I hope the 343i will mention such weapons somewhere in the near future.
Just a friendly reminder to not post multiple times in a row. Thank you.
We know that in the UNSC army augmentations are used which are known in ODST. The catalog separated ODST from the unaugmented infantry in its statement. We also know that ODST relies on the Orion project model. Buck should not have been honest in his statement to ONI (for example, with the murder of two hunters, which people could not do and was described more from the point of view of game mechanics). I can imagine that the hunters killed each other, but hell, the ODST, who lose the Chief as Spartans, could not kill them two hunters, except forcing the clumsy creature to shoot at his brother. Do ODST get augmentations and do they come from the Orion project? Hell, the ODST armor has an biometric stamina sensor that can recover AFTER DAMAGE from Covenant weapons. Just answer whether augmentation is meant by this statement:

Quote:
its a11 just math to them not with numbers but with symbols that change when you look at them because they want them to…
<< 2526 >>
>> A concession from the Majority to the Minority
Keeping the SPARTANS focused on maintaining and/or reestablishing infrastructure is no longer prudent. The ODST, although based on the ORION model, should prove to be an adequate replacement. >>
>> Although, by necessity, this redistribution of resources must be gradual, it is now the Majority opinion that redistribution is essential.
SPARTANS represent a quantifiable concentration of coherence, and to this end they must be applied to the current difficulty as a fulcrum. >>
<< A concession from the Minority to the Majority
Now, at last, the time has come for this Assembly to involve itself in the metaphysical. <<
It is logical that having augmentation protocols and faced with the risk of destruction, UNSC will begin to use at least some of them on its soldiers. Hell, it’s strange why they didn’t do this, when they mainly relied on infantry in boarding to confront numerous superhuman enemies. It is logical that it is easier to create many easily augmented soldiers. I have many more quotes, but there is not one single statement. I know that many people want to see ODST as people, but steroids will not make them not people, but only show how Covenants are superior to ordinary people in power. Of course, the rate of regeneration could include the genetic modification of bones and bone marrow, but I would put it aside at the discretion of the players - whether they consider ODST to be completely ordinary people on steroids or super-soldiers who are inferior to the Covenants.
Well, quotes indicating that they receive them.
CATALOG SAY:
Quote:
"The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers (ODST) and various non-augmented special forces units remain active as of 2558. User Grizzlei's analysis of the their role and operational niche is accurate."
Ilovebees say:
Quote:
James J: Nobody's like Gladys (giggles) When they canceled the program they split us up.
Jan: Us...?
James J: Spartans. Spartan 1 point 0.
Jan: (sarcastic) Sure, dad. You were an 'elite commando' with 'metal bones' and a flamethrower attachment that the marines dropped in when the tac-nukes weren't enough.
Of course the bones help to survive a brute strike or landing from orbit, but is that all? Doesn’t something like this apply to ODST that, while not enhancing their skills to a superhuman level, allows you to achieve it?:
Quote:
'Stupid Cop': Too late, Jan. Sometime when you were a baby, somebody stuck you with a needle and shot you full of miracles. Smart, fast, strong, never get sick, never get drunk, don't need much sleep...
Quote:
THE ORION PROJECT, Page 44

"In 2321 CE, the UNSC Office of Naval Intelligence [ONI] created the Orion Project, named after the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy. Its aim was to build on bioengineering protocols developed during the Interplanetary Wars in order to generate tougher, faster soldiers. A handful of military candidates were "tested" and eventually seeded into the regular chain of command after the project was declared ineffective."
Quote:
The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers, commonly known as ‘ODST,’ is a volunteer force within the UNSC Marine Corps, operationally managed by the Naval Special Weapons (NAVSPECWEP) division. ODST personnel are aggressively screened, and their brutal training program generally weeds out all but a handful of candidates. Early iterations of the ODST were created by the United Nations in 2129. By the Interplanetary War in 2163, the role of orbitally deployed Marine shock troopers had become a proper element of the newly founded UNSC Marine Corps. Since then, they have been a critical component of humanity’s military power, particularly during the Insurrection and the Human-Covenant War, arguably second only to the Spartan super-soldier projects.
Probably because a person with an iron limb from ODST is surprised that someone could augment the child. That is, there were augmentations, but no one dared to use them on children.
Quote:
Petrosky: Like not human, alright! Like he was genetically augmented.
Giraud: So you're- you're telling me someone had augmented John, someone had genetically augmented a child?
Petrosky: (sighs) Okay. Alright.
Giraud: No?
Petrosky: You think I'm lying.
The Spartan laser stands like four warthogs - and the ODST can use it freely. Mjölnir is more expensive than a long sword, and ODST cannot use it.
Quote:
"The M6 G/GNR is an anti-vehicle directed-energy weapon issued to UNSC forces late in the Human-Covenant War. It is colloquially known as the “Spartan Laser” due to its origins as a supplementary component of the SPARTAN-II program. Ruinously expensive at the time of its introduction, later refinements reduced the cost to merely extraordinarily expensive, though only ODSTs and Spartans could be said to have ready access to the weapon until the post-War period."
Is it really cheaper than their augmentation?
Quote:
Petrosky (in call): I am testifying with absolute certainty that the speed, power, and coordination this person exhibited was categorically impossible without the benefit of a full battery of military-grade augmentations. Afterwards, the Office of Naval Intelligence, through our COs, issued an order of absolute suppression of all accounts of this incident. The coercion, pressure being brought to bear, we were ordered to keep silent, to never speak of this publicly upon fear of court martial. How's that? That okay?
The use of kinetic weapons for the Covenant is not a surprise. For example, it is known that they used heavy packaged autocannons on their fighters. I hope the 343i will mention such weapons somewhere in the near future.
Just a friendly reminder to not post multiple times in a row. Thank you.
That is, in the UNSC army augmentations were used that separately could not provide the skills of Master Chief.

Quote:
Mendez: I've never seen a man, augmented or not, be able to make such extraordinarily high-stakes decisions so quickly. Chief, would find himself in a complex scenario in a dense field of variables, and almost instantly weigh the costs and benefits immediately generating a creative solution. He faces dilemmas: ethical, tactical, tough situations that would buckle most human beings if they had a year to mull it over, but he makes the call --usually on the fly-- and it's the right call, it's extraordinary. Not to mention of course, that he then makes a super human jump onto an enemy craft in midflight, yanks the pilot out of the cockpit, commandeers the bird, and then rams it back down the enemy's throat. The man can execute too.
Quote:
The Halo Encyclopedia claims:
"Basic performance-enhancing technologies have been commonplace among human militaries for centuries; however, extensive experimentation pushing the limits of the human body has historically been limited due to ethical concerns. A notable exception to this are the biochemical and cybernetic augmentations used in the SPARTAN programs, which represent the peak of human biological and cybernetic enhancement."
And phase of Orion 3 ODST... Orion was secret, but ODST began to be based on his model.
ODST is a small branch. Many developments (such as bubble shields or gungir laser) could be used by all ODST freely and they had full access to them. Even, Marines. Spartan laser, by the way, is more expensive than four warts. On the background of augmentation of Orion look dull (the same Mjollnir is more expensive than just the "long sword").
The improvements to Orion after the creation of Spartans 2 were most likely safe. Based on the datapad ODST began to be based on this model only after the creation of Spartans 2. Again, there is the following quote regarding endurance from the manual to the game:
Quote:
Your ODST uniform and body armor are similar to those of a standard UNSC Marine except you are also equipped with a full-head helmet that, in addition to offering improved protection from ballistic and energy projectiles, carries a sophisticated, tactical heads-up display (HUD). The HUD not only shows your current loadout of grenades, weapons, and ammunition, it also provides real-time monitoring of your two most important biometrics: stamina and base body health. While the method of calculating these metrics is classified, your HUD makes them easy to understand: reddening around the edges of the HUD means your stamina is low; reduction of a narrow bar near the top of the HUD means your base health is depleted. Stamina recovers automatically as long as you are not taking hostile fire; but base health only improves with medical intervention via combat aid kits, or “medkits” for short. Fortunately, you have been trained in the use of civilian medkits—essential knowledge in urban terrain far from expeditionary medical facilities and Navy corpsmen. While your HUD is designed for efficient, peripheral observation, new ODST recruits are encouraged to actively monitor their biometrics and adjust their fighting style accordingly.
The nature of these augmentations may be a mystery to ODST and they think of them as steroids or something similar. Genetic intervention could explain cancer. This would dispel the contradiction indicated in halopedia.
Quote:
  • Narrator Edward Buck states that Mickey "sounded as grim as a medic telling a soldier that the only good thing about him bleeding out on the battlefield was that his cancer wouldn't get him first."[235] In Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian, cancer is described as a disease rarely seen since the 22nd century, and that it had become so uncommon that Michael Baird had never even heard of it until he was diagnosed.[236] Cancer is also described as "easy to treat" with 26th century medicine. It is therefore unlikely that Buck would use cancer as a trivial example of a deadly disease.
Quote:
Michael Baird: "What I'm saying is that I don't know what cancer is."
Medical technician: "Oh. I got you. Cancer's a kind of um… slow-burn, localized infection, kind of. But we haven't really seen a lot of it since… hmm, twenty-second century, according to this. Anyway, it's easy to treat, but you're going to have to have surgery."
— Michael Baird and an unidentified medical technician
Both cases are indicated for ODST. Cancer may also be due to Boren syndrome.
Quote:
Boren's Syndrome is supposedly a human neurological condition.[1] The disease was most notably used as a cover-up by the Office of Naval Intelligence to keep the identity of the ORION Project's candidates classified.[2] Since the best documented incidence of Boren's Syndrome is the cover story, it is unclear whether the condition is actually genuine, with the ORION augmentations only causing similar symptoms, or if it was entirely fabricated as part of the cover-up.
Just answer yes or no to my question about whether they get augmentations.
You can ban me after that, but I want to get an answer and I apologize that he is not in this topic. No one answered me before.
These are far from all quotes. The text did not fit.

Quote:
The battle suit utilizes a neural interface implanted in your brain. Your armor’s movements and weapons are controlled at the speed of your thoughts. The battle suit also contains a layer of crystal that forms a network capable of supporting starship-grade AI so you can overpower alien computer systems if necessary. The suit’s shell is comprised of many layers of strong alloy and a refractive coating to disperse energy weapon hits. Internally, the suit regulates temperature and can reactively change in density as necessary.
Also here are some people’s says:
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Ya sure I'd assume the majority of S4s are from previous SOF units like ODSTs but those units still exist and now more than ever would desperately need away to boost their guys performance since most of their best people have essentially been poached. As to safely augmenting adults I don't really buy that. Ya it would be unsafe to give adults Spartan level augmentations but even today we have what are essentially augmentations that are at least kind of safe for use. Like HGH and other steroids that give appreciable physical boosts. So surely in the 26th Century they would have forms of pharmaceuticals that could be given to ODSTS imo
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I'm genuinely interested, what sort of performance enhancing drugs are administered to Navy SEALs?
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All sorts of things. Anabolic steroids and Dexedrine, then there’s systems of amphetamine use to prolong awareness, followed by sedatives to help fall asleep and get good rest. The amphetamine-sedative systems can be prescribed by medical officers who are supposed to monitor use very closely.
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And while those drugs like amphetamines can be prescribed legitimately, what about the steroids? Surely that hasn't been deemed 'safe' just yet? I'm assuming some SEALs illegally use substances like anabolic steroids without supervision? If they did it wouldn't surprise me though, the recovery benefits would be a godsend given the intensity they train and operate at.
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Even the amphetamines aren’t “safe,” but you’re thinking of this wrong. When it’s life or death, safe drug use is not an issue. I’d take drugs that are horrible for me any day of the week if they’ll keep me from making a fatal mistake in the field.
Quote:
Oh I realise it's not that black and white. I'm sure many soldiers would take the comparatively minor risks posed by some of these drugs (anabolic steroids in particular) for the obvious boost in performance they might exhibit on the battlefield or in training. I was just skeptical whether there were any steroids that were approved for military application/utilisation at this point in time. Even those amphetamines despite any side effects or health risks surely underwent a process similar to FDA approval (I'm not American, I may not know what I'm talking about) in order to be utilised by the navy?
With all that said, I can definitely see why something like the amphetamines would be strongly advocated for no matter the risk. Sleep deprivation or waning focus levels could easily result in fatal outcomes as you got at.
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Yes, but that doesn’t mean all that much. Meth is FDA approved, for instance. As for the steroids, the Navy doesn’t even test for them with urinalysis like it does for other things, a test can be requested, but I’ve never heard of it actually happening, so while steroids are technically forbidden by a NAVADMIN policy, it’s not enforced.
Exactly.
At least it gives us the opportunity to judge that ODST is not ordinary people. Also in the Orion project, regeneration was applied, which we can get in HALO odst. ODST has reflexes at 0.075 milliseconds in comics. Later, third-generation Spartans were created, who did not receive defects, which means that Orion project augmentations worked (at least their children could live normally).https://i.postimg.cc/tCvmQKq4/RCO095.jpg
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On Earth-like gravity, an Unggoy's centre-mass would make contact in some ~.45 seconds; this means Romes was capable of timing precise headshots to the Grunts around the clock in less than half a second.In other words, his firing intervals and response time can bulls-eye six enemies positioned in all directions within his motion tracker range. This would make for a mean response time of 75 milliseconds for each target with a 800RPM rate-of-fire using 2 semi-automatic magnums; grossly beyond the capabilities of any real-world marksmen or gunslinger alike. In neuroscience, the consensus regarding the upper-limit of human stimuli response times borders within a range edging 100 milliseconds to merely perform tasks such as pinching a ruler or pressing a button - let alone targeting multiple targets with numerous displacements!This Halo: Helljumper comic has certainly shown an amusing set of feats. If there was any significant reason for the affirms within the community of marine neural interfaces enhancing their users to any degree, this series is definitely a catalyst for those claims.
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Collapsing a notably thick sliding door panel. For even a common stainless steel or aluminium-framed apparatus, the stresses imparted on Taylor's leg would be immense; especially considering the lack of structural weaknesses an offset hinged door would provide:
https://i.postimg.cc/43vQgQmB/ODST-ODST-ODST.png
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Yet, he continues his search - uninterrupted of any endured blunt-force trauma. This may give at least some substance as to how he a few other marines managed to overturn a 3.5 tonne M12 Warthog on Halo 3: ODST's Uplift Reserve, but I digress.-Leaping over an Elite. Take note of how Dutch, fully adorned in ODST BDU, seems to casually rival, or even surpass, Javier Sotomayor's 2.45 meter high-jump world record (given how analogous it is to the average Sangheili height):
https://i.postimg.cc/52TR0g9J/ODST-DUTCH.png

And although all this does not directly relate to the topic, this would suggest that sangheili or brute, as a space civilization, could also begin to use augmentations if it was considered acceptable to use human technology. At least Unggoys who love infusion could reproduce something like this simply using human methods of studying the genome and their own physiology. In the end they made a goblin at the end of the war and a methane wagon.

Edit: from warfleet we know that some elites were not ashamed to use stimulants so that they would not sleep for a long time. I think the same goes for their treatment. We know that not all sangheili are wars. There should be military technicians and engineers, as well as spec ops, which are more reserved about certain things.