It's time to develop the OTHER races

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We know all there is to know about the Grunts

We absolutely do not. You can't even state an era of their culture.

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The Kig-Yar have been fleshed out in MD

A bit but not to where it isn't needed anymore.

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Prophets have been touched on a bit.

Not in regards to their society,no.

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Brutes were examined in Contact Harvest.

We got the most basic understanding of them which isn't comparable to the Sangheili

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And where did anyone ever say that the Lekgolo hate humanity? I don't think that has ever been expressed in the lore.

It has, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't around. I believe one of the bungie updates state the Lekgolo actually hate humanity the most due to their following of the Sangheili, who clearly dislike humans on varies levels.

For some reason I feel this was stated more recently though. Can't find any snippet of it on Halopedia,but that hardly means anything.

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They don't have feelings about anything. In fact

Not true at all based on them understanding the concept of "mercy killing" and having "bond brothers".

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In fact, the majority of them aren't even religious, and only maintain their relationship with the Covenant out of fear of glassing and because it gives them access to superior slipspace drives and trade.

Which I already brought up so...

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I want more exploration into the other species culture, but honestly, they've got to do it slowly and through many pieces of fiction for practical purposes. They really can't rush such a thing without it feeling either forced or not detailed enough, IMO.

What "Practical purposes"? It's been ten years already and we are just now getting backstory on majority of the universe. A solid "Covenant" book series with each novel focusing on one race's joining of the covenant would be fine.

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I strongly disagree that the other races need to play catchup BEFORE we further explore the Sanghelli. They're the most interesting and most important race beside the Humans and Foreruners, with follow ups being the San'Shyumm and (apparently moving forward it looks like) the Jiralhanae and maybe Kig-Yar.

All of that is subjective and just because a race is well liked doesn't mean the others should be caste aside. Generally speaking, you are more incline to like what you have been exposed to the most.

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I really can't see a similar thing with the Kig-Yar or Unngoy. Unless the Unggoy organize a governing structure and ally with humanity or something... I just can't see them as being AS interesting as the rest. Same with the Kig-Yar. I just can't see them being as interesting for storytelling purposes.

Err, Mortal Dictata's expansion of the Kig-Yar was very well received among the community and made them a new-found favorite among many.

So the same could happen with the Unngoy. Plus, Bot races would be excellent trade partners.

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Either way the Sanghelli are clearly the most important non Human/Forerunner species

Only because the lore has primarily focused on them out of the other Covenant races.

And all that is fine. We have an incredibly limited knowledge of Lekgolo beyond them serving the Sangheili and their forced absorbtion into the Covenant.

That's my whole point. We don't know. We don't know either direction. There is just as much possibility they're too incredibly alien for Humanity to understand for thousands more years, as there is for a strong relationship between Humans and Sangheili potentially impacting their views of Humanity(or at least accepting requests to work along side Humans for durations at request of Sangheili).

I'm choosing to look at the subject in more of a "there is potential for this to happen, and for it to make sense if they want to go this route" rather than simply "we don't know enough so I don't want to form any kind of opinion". :P

That's all I'm saying here, the potential is there if the path is chosen and there are elements already in place to make it sensible enough. Which I think would be pretty cool.

But there's /just as much/ potential for them to give no -Yoink- for ten thousand more years. Or forever. I would accept that if that's what it ultimately is. Not quite as cool. But it too would have sensible foundations. :P

All in all - yes they should still develop and explore the Sangheili. But I'd personally love some more, extra attention to the other races. I was hoping for some more information on Brutes from Escalation, but unfortunately that didn't pan out! I was very pleased to see a Skirmisher though. And yes, I think the canon reason for the visual change to the Kig Yar was the same reason for Juls skin color being lighter than Thels. Different region, planet, continent, etc.

Actually, I'm gonna go ahead and explain why I think we're better off putting most of the focus on a few races and leaving the others less developed in comparison.

Basically I think that any race which is going to add significant value to the lore by being expanded greatly should be. The Sanghelli were chosen to be the race that would be expanded on first, and therefore we've gotten more of that. They added a an allied force powerful enough to believably beat the Covenant, and they added the UNSC's first major ally.

San'Shyumm can be interesting because they have kept a lot of secrets and have a deeper link to Humanity's ancient roots.

Kig-Yar can be interesting because of their abilities in markets (and black markets,) their mercantilistic skills, and general laizzes faire style of living among all the other galatic politics.

The Jiralhanae could be interesting because of their stature, essentially. They pose a significant threat in combat, and that's basically why they should be expanded and made to be more interesting.

The Forerunner and Humanity are pretty self explanatory.

I can't think of any significantly interesting way to about making the Unggoy very important, as there culture has thus far shown them to be a relatively cowardly race. I guess that sounds biased, because even I know about the Grunt rebellion and that Grunt who killed a Brute or something... but overall it seems that the direction they took in developing them was that they were essentially beaten down over time by Galatic politics into a pretty cowardly race that is now cannon fodder.

The Yanme'e seem to have been restricted to mainly menial tasks like upkeep and stuff, and honestly I don't find the idea of following characters through a story when they follow a hive mind structure. I'd say the same thing about Lekgolo.

I guess my main point is that even though I want the latter 3 species expanded on, I don't want to read a novel or anything that big which focuses on them individually... I'd rather have books about Sanghelli/San'shyuum realtions leading into the formation of the Covenant, or about the Jiralhanae-Sanghelli conflict post Halo 3, or a short story about the technological development and dark ages of the Brutes, etc.

What I mean is that I want both, but I want MOST things to focus on just a few species, those which have the most creative potential.

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Also, when do we get to see the conservative Sangheili factions react to the news that humanity and the San Shyuum were challenging their gods for mastery of the galaxy while they were scrabbling around in the dirt?

A waypoint update reveled a scene in Halo 4 where the Didact was talking to Jul and his followers. From that scene, The Didact was already aware of the Sangheili who were still "loyal and strong even in their second form".

Somebody else can probably find that but the Sangheili were probably one of the Forerunners "subservient allies" Forthencho mentioned in Primordium.

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Let me end by saying this - There are so many Sangheili fans because they have had the most exposure with the most positive backing. I know die-hard Sangheili fans who have said they dislike Halo 4 and they HATE 343 because The Elites were reduced to thugs and conspirators. Their words...not mine.

I've always been a die hard Halo fan, to the max ever since I could remember, and I had friends who were as well, and we all got along quite well, we both loved the Sangheili, for one reason or another, they were our favorite, and we was on common grounds. However, when 343i started taking over, making the elites "bad guys" in the game again, they began to hate Halo and 343i, saying they were better off making their own fan fiction alternate universe of what happens (Elites and Humans living in peace on Earth)... and while I'd like to see that one with all the species in the distant future, it is absolutely impossible for that to happen right after a genocidal war.

I admit I was kinda hurt to see them hate the series, as I'd feel an obligation to protect everything in the Halo Universe, heroes and villains alike. Yeah the Sangheili aren't perfect, but that's what makes them even more real, because nothing is perfect, and it's kind of tunnel vision saying: "They weren't like that in the book/game," but you gotta think, that's only one faction, there are multiple planets, and in those planets, even more factions, so to limit the Sangheili to only a few factions is to completely limit yourself and the Halo Universe.

I remember they also hated the Jiralhanae, surprise surprise, and their only reasoning was: "They kill Elites" ... so yeah, sure the Jiralhanae aren't my absolute favorite, but I still love them to death, sins and all. It's sad to say I haven't really talked to them in forever... I guess when you can't accept the same truth... you can't really talk to each other...

The Sangheili possessed and still posses a larger degree of attention than the other Covenant races because their species was pivotal in the narrative of the main games. Understanding their actions and their decisions is vital to understanding why the Great Schism occurred. You can't explain the Schism without knowing a lot about the Sangheili's culture and society, and if you can't explain the Schism then you can't account for the entire last act of the trilogy; you can't explain jack -Yoink- of how the narrative concludes logically.

Going beyond Halo 3, the human race either lives or dies depending on what occurs within Sangheili space. Do they unite against Humanity or do they change and accept humanity, or do they fracture? If they fracture, then how? Are they successful in drawing off the Covenant Loyalists or do the Loyalists exterminate humanity, clearing house in preparation for the real war against the Sangheili? How do we understand any of that without focusing on the Sangheili's culture and society in the wake of the Covenant's collapse?

The Sangheili were half of the leadership of the old Covenant and had direct control over almost all aspects of the former Covenant; they own very large parts of the Orion Arm through vast territorial holdings; they have a lot of resources; they will have significant influence within the former client races both politically and economically; their language is the lingua franca of the Orion Arm. Like it or not, humanity is now playing in their sandbox and hence the Sangheili are possibly the most relevant species to humanity immediately post Halo 3, even more so than the Forerunners are at this current time.

Once it becomes apparent that the Sangheili are becoming less pivotal to humanity's current welfare and level of operation and interaction in the galaxy then I can see them not being regarded as important as they are now. As it stands now, none of you can seriously get away with thinking that the 3000 year old tier 2 interstellar empire isn't going to be majorly important to humanity's hopes and dreams of being an ascendant power in the region. Understanding it is going to be important to understanding how humanity co-exists with it and hence has a chance to "Reclaim".

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Anyone who is a Sangheili fan revels in their hate of the Jiralhanae. It is sad, but true.

I revel in ruining your statistics.

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After the end of Halo 3, The Sangheili have vastly diminished in power from what I understand. They are now a fractured race, they are fighting amongst themselves, and their military society is severely lacking in the scientific prowess necessary to maintain their once mighty empire.

Power is measured relatively in this sense. Compared to their former selves, they are a shadow of their former selves. Compared to humanity, they are still a dangerous threat. As evidenced by Spartan Ops' final episode showing Jul 'Mdama to have amassed a fleet of around 100 ships, and having rebuilt a sizable organization of credible military threat to Earth from a bunch of backwater Sangheili frontier worlds, and being able to take the Infinity over his lap on several occasions (And evidenced by the Infinity being crippled quite promptly by a Covenant orbital facility in Escalation) humanity isn't anywhere near a comfortable position against them and won't be for a very long time.

If we want to understand how their fracturing occurred then that also requires focus on them. This is just another way of phrasing what I said about us needing to understand what factors prevent the Sangheili from finishing of humanity, whether they choose to accept humanity or otherwise. That is one of the reasons why I think it's silly to be complaining about the Sangheili getting a lot of attention for post Halo 3. They are a big threat to humanity and so understanding their cultural and societal changes is important for understanding how humanity survives.

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Seriously...unless you are in the military, everything else is considered dishonorable, scientific endeavors included.

Citation needed. The reference that I have from the Bestiarum says that they are merely regarded as hobbies. Dishonor isn't a factor in anything. Lack of potential to gain honor is a distinct concept from dishonor.

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They will not be Tier 2 for long at this rate. In fact, it is very foreseeable, that if ONI goes unchecked in their continued efforts to cause unrest with the Sangheili, that Humanity will far surpass them in every measurable sense.

What ONI is doing is like trying to stop a freight train by shooting at it with a potato gun or something. It's one of the most hilarious things I've read not least of all because that's not how black ops should work.

The Sangheili were mentioned in Escalations to have had some fortune in recent years under Thel's leadership. That's not entirely surprising as the idea that the Sangheili could do nothing on their own was always one of the daftest ideas in Halo. There's no way that you are going to relocate the entire STEM job market and industry from an entire species over to just 23 million people (The total population of Prophets in 2552), nor is it feasible for hundreds of millions of Huragok to just vanish in an instant. Their issues have been greatly over-exaggerated, both by fans and certain authors who don't do any research on subject material or relevant real world facts (A lot more focus needs to be paid to the Sangheili before this entire situation about them not being able to do anything makes even a lick of sense. We actually know nothing about how the social mechanics of such a scenario could even develop, and I'm not sure they ever could).

Given their seemingly rapid recovery implied by Escalations, it leaves very little window of opportunity for humanity to surpass them greatly. I have no doubt that humanity is going to surpass them due to the reclaimer title and Librarian's help, but the Sangheili are never going to be too far behind given all the power they still posses in the Orion Arm. Want an idea of the difference that humanity has to close? It bankrupt the entire UNSC to build the Infinity alone, whilst the Sangheili had the resources and infrastructure to churn out 5km long CAS class Assault Carriers; they equip armour of comparable quality and capability to Mjolnir on all of their basic infantry; armor that costs as much as a Frigate for the UNSC. Only ONI has access to cutting edge real time interstellar com units, whilst every keep among the Sangheili seems to have one lying around like a cellphone. The Sangheili have also successfully integrated energy shielding into their everyday infrastructure, like that hydro-electric power station made entirely (And stupidly) out of an energy barrier.

The human race not only has to develop such technology, they have to make it affordable for mass production and consumption on the scale that the Sangheili have achieved. That's a lot more difficult than just making a working prototype in a lab or a single technology demonstrator, especially given that the UNSC doesn't have access to the Sangheili's vast manpower or resources.

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They are not as important to the Galaxy as they used to be. In fact, I dare say, that they are quickly becoming a second-tier race who will not be in any shape to actually be important enough to have any impact on the Reclamation.

They'll probably be like the Ancient Human Empire before the Forerunners actually, given what I already mentioned. Not more powerful or advanced than the Forerunners, but strong enough that entering into a war with them to annex their territory was unwise; strong enough that they can potentially roadblock you.

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While I doubt Humanity could mop the floor with The Elites as it stands, the Elites have diminished to the point where they could now lose an all-out war with Humanity.

Prove it. What about post-Halo 3 humanity suggests to you that they could take on the Elites and win in an all out war? Considering that the Elite's fractured state likely won't remain like that once a clear external enemy presents itself to them, how is humanity going to hope to mount an offensive into space they know nothing about, against defenses that they clearly know nothing about given how easily one of their orbital stations popped the Infinity? The Elites fought off the Loyalists for 6 years after the Schism, who are a much stronger opponent than post-Halo 3 humanity. How is the UNSC supposed to do better than the Brutes and Prophets with 80% of the species wiped out along with most of the military-industrial and economic base?

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In summation, The Elites are no longer as pivotal as they used to be...and they basically did it to themselves cause they could not accept their punishment for allowing Mr-117 to kill Regret.

That's not what caused the Schism...

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Based on that alone, it is safe to assume that The Sangheili are in serious trouble as it stands. This is what I like to see, as it gives the other races room to flourish.

Based on that, it looks like Halopedia (Or wherever you got that from) isn't keeping up with Escalations. It certainly doesn't look like The Return to me.

There are other and more interesting ways to create a setting where other races flourish whilst the Sangheili aren't basically retconned out of existence by waving hands and making their entire empire literally disappear in the blink of an eye.

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Also...you didn't ruin my statistic...you proved it.

Do tell. I'm very interested to know in which one of my posts I demonstrated the clear capacity to "revel in [my] hate of the Jiralhanea".