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Jerome-092 vs Captain America

OP Jason S048

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This idea interests me, because both Combatants were in Super Soldier programs. Jerome, being a futuristic Super Soldier with Armor that can only be breached by Plasma and has unbreakable bones and has remarkable strength. and Captain America who has identical equipment, but not having armor, he has a shield. Jerome stands at about 7' 2, and Captain America stands about 6' 0½. Jerome's known M.O.S. is technically a Jack of all Traits, because we've seen him use a AR, BR, Shotgun, and in game a Laser, but his profile says a Sniper/Sharp Shooter. Captain America uses, Infinity Stones, Tesseractl, Tesseract Battery, HYDRA Assault Rifle, List of Firearms, HYDRA Cannon, HYDRA Parasit, Atomic Bomb, etc.\

Who do you think would win?
Think pretty much any Spartan would beat Cap.
Normally Jerome would win because Mjolnir armor Mark IV beats the Cap with just his guns and shield. However if Cap has access to Infinify Stones, that's just unfair so he wins.

If you just compare augmentations, Cap is stronger and faster than an unarmored Spartan II.
Since when has Captain America had access to Infinity stones or atomic bombs? If we are going to that foolishness then Jerome gets a CCS cruiser and a Halo ring.
When comparing any comic book character you have to clarify what continuity, because all of the big ones have multiple continuities, and the same character has not canonically done everything that every version of the character has done. Additionally, many of the older comics were ridiculous, taking no heed of physics when they just drew what looked cool, in spite of how it would affect other parts of the story, creating major inconsistencies and plot holes.

I don't engage in debates against the comic versions of the characters, though the cinematic version of Captain America, if in a cage match against an unarmored Spartan 4, with no armor or equipment, would be pretty well balanced. I believe any of the Spartan 2s would incapacitate Captain America before he even realized they'd gotten the upper hand.

Adding gear to the mix, and Captain America's signature throwing of his shield would only serve to give the Spartan his shield, as it would be caught and held on-to. Without his shield, Captain America would be obliterated by whatever the Spartan was armed with.
Rodgers before augmentation was what , 5'4 140 lbs ? ..Weak and Incredibly unfit at that. After augmentation he's 6'3 and about 230. Even the shortest SII Kelly , is taller without her armor at 6'6.

Jerome , along with the rest of 2s. Were as perfect as a human could possibly be before augmentations. And now pile their augmentation on top of that. Not to mention MJOLNIR. It gives me a pretty easy choice.

Though , I'm unsure of what exactly all the benefits are to Rodgers' serum , aside from the basic speed , strength, agility , durability , and size boost.
Old Sweepi wrote:
Though , I'm unsure of what exactly all the benefits are to Rodgers' serum , aside from the basic speed , strength, agility , durability , and size boost.
The super soldier serum brought him to the absolute epitome of human capability. It also gives him a light healing factor. He also doesn't experience fatigue; the serum prevents buildup of lactic acid in his muscles, so he has an excess of endurance compared to normal people.

If you compare the stats of strength and speed of Cap to a Spartan II like John-117, then you see that Cap is better. Cap's top speed is recorded at 49 mph; Kelly, the fastest Spartan, clocked in at 38.5 mph (John once clocked in at 65.2 mph but the effort tore his Achilles tendon). Spartan II strength after augmentation is averaged at being able to lift 3x their body weight. John's weight without armor was 290 lbs, so he could lift 870 lbs unarmored, theoretically. Cap has been recorded as bench-pressing 1200 lbs. So in these respects, Cap is a more powerful super soldier; the effects of his serum were greater than those of the Spartan II's augmentations.
Chimera30 wrote:
Normally Jerome would win because Mjolnir armor Mark IV beats the Cap with just his guns and shield. However if Cap has access to Infinify Stones, that's just unfair so he wins.

If you just compare augmentations, Cap is stronger and faster than an unarmored Spartan II.
Agreed, though are you sure cap knows how to uses the infinity stones and wouldn't it kill him? There's a reason why only a few characters in the marvel universe can use infinity gems accurately. Am also assuming we're talking about comic book cap since Jerome would wipe the floor with the MCU pretty easily. In terms of augmentations I'm pretty sure Jerome is overall physically superior. In the marvel guides is states cap is capable of running 30mph, having 20 milliseconds reaction speed and can lift 800Ibs with great effort(though he's capable of benching 1100Ibs). This stats aren't too far away from Spartans IIs just after receiving their augmentations and their augmentations at 14 already surpass this (besides strength). Another thing is that in the Fall of reach it states Spartans get better as they adjust to their augmentations. Cap is only human peak while according to halo last light Spartans are pretty much superhuman without armor.

Links if you want to read those bios for yourself:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111194394/5390685-0908039092-31479.jpg
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111194394/5390687-8884409390-Capt..jpg
Chimera30 wrote:
Old Sweepi wrote:
Though , I'm unsure of what exactly all the benefits are to Rodgers' serum , aside from the basic speed , strength, agility , durability , and size boost.
The super soldier serum brought him to the absolute epitome of human capability. It also gives him a light healing factor. He also doesn't experience fatigue; the serum prevents buildup of lactic acid in his muscles, so he has an excess of endurance compared to normal people.

If you compare the stats of strength and speed of Cap to a Spartan II like John-117, then you see that Cap is better. Cap's top speed is recorded at 49 mph; Kelly, the fastest Spartan, clocked in at 38.5 mph (John once clocked in at 65.2 mph but the effort tore his Achilles tendon). Spartan II strength after augmentation is averaged at being able to lift 3x their body weight. John's weight without armor was 290 lbs, so he could lift 870 lbs unarmored, theoretically. Cap has been recorded as bench-pressing 1200 lbs. So in these respects, Cap is a more powerful super soldier; the effects of his serum were greater than those of the Spartan II's augmentations.
You're talking about Spartans augmentations just after 14. In the fall of reach it's stated they'll get better as they adjust. 38.5mph was Kelly's top speed just after augmentations she should be faster by now. Commander plamer an adult Spartan in halo initiation stated she could outrun a horse (30-50mph) after receiving the augmentations. Cap's top speed isn't 49mph it's been contradicted by marvel guides. His top speed is 30mph(see prior post). In the comics, fans assumed he could reach 49mph base of the fact he stated could run a mile over a minute in a comic, even though the comic never specifically stated how much over a minute. People just exaggerate the feat and highball it. 3x body lifting capacity was just after the augmentation as well. Chief or any Spartan would be stronger by now. Spartans IIs and IIIs are now considered superhuman according to the Last Light halo novel, while cap is only peak human. Also in the halo novels chief was capable of easily flipping warthogs the Mark V so he shouldn't be capable of do so if 870Ibs is his limit especially if the Mark V doubles strength. For this feat to be plausible chief would need to be able to lift 1.75 tons without the suit, but we're forgetting he did it without struggling so this is still a minimum.
Jerome obliterate cap with mild effort. Due to overall physically superiority, versatility, armor, range, firepower and etc. due to superior tech and mjolnir armor. The only advantage cap has is experience,better skill in H2H as well as the shield.
Any SII would smack Cap silly, bless him.
The Sorge wrote:
Think pretty much any Spartan would beat Cap.
i agree
From everything onward, I'm strictly referring to the 199999-continuity, otherwise known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Captain America from the comics is a completely different beast.
Chimera30 wrote:
Old Sweepi wrote:
Though , I'm unsure of what exactly all the benefits are to Rodgers' serum , aside from the basic speed , strength, agility , durability , and size boost.
The super soldier serum brought him to the absolute epitome of human capability.
That's quite the understatement. He's as peak human as Clark Kent is an all-american farm boy.
Chimera30 wrote:
It also gives him a light healing factor. He also doesn't experience fatigue; the serum prevents buildup of lactic acid in his muscles, so he has an excess of endurance compared to normal people.

If you compare the stats of strength and speed of Cap to a Spartan II like John-117, then you see that Cap is better.
Better? This man is pushing a fifty-two ton Liebherr PR 764 across a football field in mere seconds, something no Spartan, armor or otherwise, would be capable of replicating. If Spartan IV's are demi-gods and Spartan-IIs are gods, then Captain America is the singular collective will of an entire pantheon of titans.
Chimera30 wrote:
Cap's top speed is recorded at 49 mph; Kelly, the fastest Spartan, clocked in at 38.5 mph (John once clocked in at 65.2 mph but the effort tore his Achilles tendon). Spartan II strength after augmentation is averaged at being able to lift 3x their body weight. John's weight without armor was 290 lbs, so he could lift 870 lbs unarmored, theoretically. Cap has been recorded as bench-pressing 1200 lbs.
Considering that he can do things like pull back a helicopter from a mechanically disadvantageous position (resistance easily in excess of the weight you mentioned for the classic 1100lbs bench press from vintage comics), or shatter the reinforced concrete pillars of an overpass with thrown objects, I disagree.

Chimera30 wrote:
Old Sweepi wrote:
-snip-
You're talking about Spartans augmentations just after 14. In the fall of reach it's stated they'll get better as they adjust. 38.5mph was Kelly's top speed just after augmentations she should be faster by now.
As far as I'm concerned, you don't get to pick what is or isn't canon:

"Among all active S-II personnel, Kelly maintains the quickest reflexes and is easily the fastest recorded Spartan, capable of running at speeds in excess of 65kph within current MJOLNIR GEN2 systems. This impressive ability earned her the pet name of “Rabbit” among other Spartans. However, it has also placed her into specific roles with increased danger, including diversionary and ingress activities that could not be accomplished outside of her extraordinary speed."

You might try to point out that the "excess" portion of the characteristic's description, but what can you really argue? That she can safely sprint five kilometers faster then 65kph? Acceleration and the ability to maintain a given speed is more important in current armor systems then raw physical might or speed - anatomically, speaking there are hard limits that even supersoldiers can't exceed without breaking themselves - as is the case here. I especially don't expect Spartan-IVs to exceed Kelly's performance, as you'll see below.
Commander plamer an adult Spartan in halo initiation stated she could outrun a horse (30-50mph) after receiving the augmentations.
No, she didn't. She stated that her heart muscles underwent an augmentation procedure that could assist her in achieving the speeds necessary to outrun a horse. Considering that the point of the augmentation procedure is to prepare a Spartan candidate for the rigorous and physically demanding activity of utilizing power-assisted armor (where all movements are amplified - and thus such high-performance is necessary), it would be rational to connect her comment about the augmentation results to amplifying equipment that relies on a subject capable of handling the stress.

By the way, a comparison to the maximum and short speeds of a quarter horse isn't worthwhile here, if you were to pick any well-fed, normal horse (as was the case here) - you'd be looking at a top galloping speed of approximately 25-30mph.
Cap's top speed isn't 49mph it's been contradicted by marvel guides. His top speed is 30mph(see prior post).
Pretty sure even MCU Captain America has outpaced that observation.
In the comics, fans assumed he could reach 49mph base of the fact he stated could run a mile over a minute in a comic, even though the comic never specifically stated how much over a minute.
Does it really matter? The difference is minuscule (whether it be 55 or 60mph) and is still beyond what a Spartan can safely do.
People just exaggerate the feat and highball it.
As if you haven't already with a Spartan's feats?
3x body lifting capacity was just after the augmentation as well. Chief or any Spartan would be stronger by now. Spartans IIs and IIIs are now considered superhuman according to the Last Light halo novel, while cap is only peak human.
Haha, thats funny, you're reverting to petty arguments at this point - the conditional usage of loose definitions is the extent of your argument? Not all Peak Humans are on the same weight class or of equal standing (especially in comic books of all things), just ask Luke Cage, or any other Peak Human Avenger - nor do they confine to specific limits.
Also in the halo novels chief was capable of easily flipping warthogs the Mark V so he shouldn't be capable of do so if 870Ibs is his limit especially if the Mark V doubles strength. For this feat to be plausible chief would need to be able to lift 1.75 tons without the suit, but we're forgetting he did it without struggling so this is still a minimum.
What? Doesn't the Mark V "triple the strength" of the user, with doubling reserved for the Mark IV. Second, 117 isn't lifting the Warthog into the air, it remains on the ground in both scenes, which easily drops the strength requirements. That 870lbs approximate can still be accurate under all circumstances - especially when the Cole Protocol revealed that picking up a 400lbs mongoose for an extended period of time was definitely pushing it for an S-II in a Mark IV.

"The Master Chief took the AI’s advice and decided to ride rather than walk. The Warthog that had been tucked under the dropship’s belly had come loose during the final moments of flight, hit the ground, and flipped over. He approached the vehicle, reached upward, got a good purchase, and pulled. Metal creaked as the ’Hog swayed, tilted in the Spartan’s direction, and started to fall. He stepped back, waited for the inevitable bounce, and climbed up behind the wheel. After a quick check to ensure that the LRV was still operable, he was off."

He uses the weight of his armor to pull a warthog back on its wheels - some strength was necessary, but physics did most of the work here.

"The Spartan grabbed hold of the Warthog’s bumper, then used his armor’s strength enhancements to flip it back onto its tires."

You don't need to lift a vehicle into the air to flip it over, impressive but hardly contradictory to what's already been established, especially if you're using more then just your arms to do the work.
Chimera30 wrote:
Normally Jerome would win because Mjolnir armor Mark IV beats the Cap with just his guns and shield. However if Cap has access to Infinify Stones, that's just unfair so he wins.

If you just compare augmentations, Cap is stronger and faster than an unarmored Spartan II.
I would assume Jerome gets either an AR, BR, or dual SMGs along with a halo 2 pistol, while cap just gets his shield. I don't like when people use whatever is in the character's universe and let's them use it. It should just be there standard loadout.

I have never read the comics, so I'm comparing Jerome to MCU cap. As far as I know, MCU cap is not as strong as any Spartan, armored or unarmored. I'm sure comics cap is much stronger, however I like using a more realistic version of Captain America.
I think one major advantage for the Spartan is his reflex advantage. Cap may be as fast as a Spartan, but he doesn't percieve as fast as one. Sure, he can pull off a big, powerful sweeping strike with incredible speed, but he's not as likely to see one coming and react in time as a Spartan. As far as I know, Captain America's reflexes weren't altered by the process he underwent - those are just a product of experience.
Response to Beta 5 Operator
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Better? This man is pushing a fifty-two ton Liebherr PR 764 across a football field in mere seconds, something no Spartan, armor or otherwise, would be capable of replicating. If Spartan IV's are demi-gods and Spartan-IIs are gods, then Captain America is the singular collective will of an entire pantheon of titans.
Not impressive, even non-augmented human can pull planes and trucks as well as push cars. When pushing a vehicle there is a great amount of downward force exerted already by gravity and there's a lot of other variables such as friction and etc.. He's pushing it not lifting it. Lifting capacity feats are better to provide. Spartans can flip tanks already according to halo legends commentary and in halo 5 opening cutscene when agent locke flips a wraith. There's also this scene in the fall of reach.
Spoiler:
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Going by the description the quartz had a volume of 54 cubic meters (3x3x6). A cubic meter of quartz weighs 2,650 kilograms. The whole monolith weighed 141,750 kilograms, or 156 short tons. While Chief did have help from 3 fellow Spartans, 1 of which was badly wounded, he still provided at about 1/4 of the force needed to push the Monolith. Each Spartan should be at least capable of pushing 39 tons of force.

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Considering that he can do things like pull back a helicopter from a mechanically disadvantageous position (resistance easily in excess of the weight you mentioned for the classic 1100lbs bench press from vintage comics), or shatter the reinforced concrete pillars of an overpass with thrown objects, I disagree.
The helicopter in question is believed to be an Airbus AS350 according the science team over at Nerdist, with 3,000 pounds of lifting capacity.
He's not quite lifting the helicopter, most of the heavy lifting is going on with the rotors. He's just preventing it from moving laterally, which is still impressive. If Bucky were to cut the lift, it might have been a different story. It's mostly about limb strength here.
If the helicopter is lifting(vertically) then it's running at or near max power meaning the helicopter is taking Cap with it, unless his super-strength extends to the amount of friction between the tips of his shoes and the ground. However it's going mostly horizontally(between 90-180 degree angle) meaning it isn't applying the full force of 3000Ibs but less. So this is no higher than a 1.5 ton feat but lower.1100Ibs is the bench press limit of comics cap. None of these feats put him above an armored Spartan not sure about unarmored. MCU cap might be stronger physically than comics (616).
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As far as I'm concerned, you don't get to pick what is or isn't canon:

"Among all active S-II personnel, Kelly maintains the quickest reflexes and is easily the fastest recorded Spartan, capable of running at speeds in excess of 65kph within current MJOLNIR GEN2 systems. This impressive ability earned her the pet name of “Rabbit” among other Spartans. However, it has also placed her into specific roles with increased danger, including diversionary and ingress activities that could not be accomplished outside of her extraordinary speed."

You might try to point out that the "excess" portion of the characteristic's description, but what can you really argue? That she can safely sprint five kilometers faster then 65kph? Acceleration and the ability to maintain a given speed is more important in current armor systems then raw physical might or speed - anatomically, speaking there are hard limits that even supersoldiers can't exceed without breaking themselves - as is the case here. I especially don't expect Spartan-IVs to exceed Kelly's performance, as you'll see below.
This is already contracted by the books and outside media in halo. Halowaypoint makes it mistakes at times but it doesn't override what the actual novel say or other official media. This is possibly a typing mistake. Even so it never stated 65kph was her limit. Also I don't see why Spartan wouldn't push their limits even it pains them in battle, their very pain tolerant and have enhanced healing. In the fall of reach 65kph is this speed of Kelly just after augmentations at 14 without armor. In the novel it further states all Spartans will get faster after adjustment. Then there's halo evolutions when fred ran roughly 20 m/s (roughly 45 mph) without hurting himself. I have a Quote from Palace Hotel in Halo Evolutions
Spoiler:
Show
In gen 2 armor Spartan's speeds are aided with thruster making them even more faster. In this trailer here, it's calculated that locke ran 150mph in gen 2 armor. That's in 1.34g gravity which is the elite home planet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CsokzYq0Mo&index=18&list=LLPQ8wAguCs9A3BbENZAlu-A

Let's take a look at halo legend in the scene when blue team was running in the covenant ship.

https://youtu.be/ZAjCzxPUT8M

Now assuming that the length of the hangar is 500 meters which they've been stated to be ,this would give us a 90 km/h speed, and I know that the there is an assumption but ok the other hand there is almost 3 full seconds slow motion in which the Spartans barely move. This proves Kelly can run greater speed than 65kph in even her gen 1 mjolnir.
Part 2 response to Beta 5 Operator
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No, she didn't. She stated that her heart muscles underwent an augmentation procedure that could assist her in achieving the speeds necessary to outrun a horse. Considering that the point of the augmentation procedure is to prepare a Spartan candidate for the rigorous and physically demanding activity of utilizing power-assisted armor (where all movements are amplified - and thus such high-performance is necessary), it would be rational to connect her comment about the augmentation results to amplifying equipment that relies on a subject capable of handling the stress.

By the way, a comparison to the maximum and short speeds of a quarter horse isn't worthwhile here, if you were to pick any well-fed, normal horse (as was the case here) - you'd be looking at a top galloping speed of approximately 25-30mph
She's didn't state it required armor, she stated that she can outrun a horse due to augmentations alone not with power assisted armor. The fastest horses are capable of running a top speed of 50mph here, I don't see why we wouldn't use these number for high end, just in case. I'm going to have to read halo initiation again to read the scene carefully to see if see if she stated if see can outrun any horse. 30mph is an average speed though.
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As if you haven't already with a Spartan's feats?
No I haven't.
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Pretty sure even MCU Captain America has outpaced that observation.
Sure, but even in that scene cap is still slower than armored or possibly non-armored Spartans due to augmentation adjustment. That's assuming he was running as fast as black panther. According to this video(link below) black pather ran 38mph and he was running much faster than Cap. In the winter solider falcon stated cap could run 26mph but it's possible that he could've gotten faster especially when he's running by cars travelling at 31mph in the scene.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4C-y-HUS0

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Does it really matter? The difference is minuscule (whether it be 55 or 60mph) and is still beyond what a Spartan can safely do.
I've already proven Spartans can exceed those speeds and faster above without harm. Again the handbooks and guides stated he runs 30mph, though the feat suggest he could go at little faster. Running a mile over a minute can be anywhere 30-60mph. But he's definitely not going 60mph since he stated over a minute not in a minute.

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Haha, thats funny, you're reverting to petty arguments at this point - the conditional usage of loose definitions is the extent of your argument? Not all Peak Humans are on the same weight class or of equal standing (especially in comic books of all things), just ask Luke Cage, or any other Peak Human Avenger - nor do they confine to specific limits.
Luke cage is superhuman not peak human. Regardless cap is still peak human.

Quote:
What? Doesn't the Mark V "triple the strength" of the user, with doubling reserved for the Mark IV. Second, 117 isn't lifting the Warthog into the air, it remains on the ground in both scenes, which easily drops the strength requirements. That 870lbs approximate can still be accurate under all circumstances - especially when the Cole Protocol revealed that picking up a 400lbs mongoose for an extended period of time was definitely pushing it for an S-II in a Mark IV.
No the Mark V doubles, citation please? In the Halo: Combat Evolved: Sybex Official Strategies & Secrets is stated the suit doubled. While we have the Mark Vi which increases strength by 5x and the gen 2 with a higher as well as unspecified number. For the warthog feat it's pretty impressive as he grabbed the bumper to flip it, so in all likelihood, he flipped it over from the front/back, not from the sides making it harder flip and closer to an actual lift. He also was armed with a rocket launcher so it's likely you flipped it with a single arm. Yet he showed no signs of struggle. The other feat where he had to pull the hog isn't much noteworthy nor it was the one I was referring to. In halo legends Cal in the mark Iv manage to throw a odst pod with a odst solider around 30m (I could show calculation).The pod with the odst would weigh in 1400ishIbs. In the cole protocol a Spartan was lifting a odst pod on her back if I remember correctly as well.
I'll answer your question with another one:
Why have Cap and Jerome (or any other Spartan-II for that matter) fight at all?
They're both good gyus - so it seems far more likely they'd team up! And either way I think a far more interesting query is wether or not Cap's own augmentations could qualify him to use MJOLNIR Armor. ;)
Chimera30 wrote:
Normally Jerome would win because Mjolnir armor Mark IV beats the Cap with just his guns and shield. However if Cap has access to Infinify Stones, that's just unfair so he wins.

If you just compare augmentations, Cap is stronger and faster than an unarmored Spartan II.
And can also survive on the serum in his system alone (ex; his own time in "cryo").
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To know the Lore is to know Halo
"Dont be spoiled, dont start a fight. Always be careful, here at night. Because the Spartans might come, in suits that weigh half a ton. And they'll steal from you all you gots, just like they did from Colonel Watts."
Chimera30 wrote:
Normally Jerome would win because Mjolnir armor Mark IV beats the Cap with just his guns and shield. However if Cap has access to Infinify Stones, that's just unfair so he wins.

If you just compare augmentations, Cap is stronger and faster than an unarmored Spartan II.
And can also survive on the serum in his system alone (ex; his own time in "cryo").
His muscles won't tear but his bones might break.
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