Which has no bearing on this fight so I’m not seeing why you’re bringing it up. Unless you think for some magically and strange reason one’s feats will suddenly not work or be nerfed if they’re not in their native universe in which case Jerome dies instantly as soon as he moves since MJOLNIR’s or his augmentation’s physics don’t exist in Marvel.FinishingFUEGO wrote:What universe do you envision this fight happening in?ChasCT2 wrote:ObeisantCloud44 wrote:
You would naturally say that is stupid yes?
That’s why we, the SB community, operate under this versus rule we have.
Quote:Versus Rule 13: Physical laws and general reality are assumed to be contiguous and interoperable within the boundaries of common sense in a versus debate. This means that when two sides are pitted against each other, we must assume that their abilities will work as described wherever they fight in the debate, so as to not have debates devolve into mass hysterics about how one side's abilities cease to exist when they cross the threshold. This is not limited to things such as hyperspace, subspace, etc, but also to personal abilities such as ki, chakra, etc etc. If one side has a special "force", the other side is assumed to be able to interact with it to some degree, or else Vs Debates ceases to be interactive"
Which you first have to show that their definition of peak human is our own given how we have A) seen their “peak” humans dodge bullets consistently and B) shatter stone or kill lions with their bare hands in a single punch.Quote:since you are picking high end feats that according to Cap's bio classifications as ''only'' a peak human he shouldn't be able to do;
Are you seriously trying to argue that peak humans can do this?If I wanted to go high end Cap, I would argue he’s better than Silver Sulfer who lost to Black Panther who in turn is weaker than Cap (then again that depends on the author. :V). So FTL and planet busting level Cap for FTW!!!
Ain’t high end feats fun you see?
Red Skull depends entirely on when you take it him. First body? That was peak human yes however when Cap actually did fight him to a death match it was when both were abnormally aged, trapped, and poison. His clone bodies he used after his first death? No as he was given enhancements that made him superhuman, enough that he was faster than Quicksilver in close quarters, could beat Cap in H2H (on a good day mind you), and not die from a punch from Cap, Panther, Kingpin, and Crossbones.Quote:I mean you mentioned Cap standing up to Namor a guy that has constantly beaten the Hulk, yet the Red Skull, Razor Fist, Black Panther, Wolverine, Crossbones, Batroc etc. are genuine challenges for Cap, does that even seem consistent?
His cyborg body? Stronger than his enhanced clone bodies.
The same Black Panther that went toe to toe with Namor, taken down Rhinos in H2H combat, ripped a fully grown tree out of the ground and throw it, almost killed the Red Skull, lifted his throne casually that three movers had trouble lifting, and can decapitate Doom Bots with a single punch? That Black Panther?!? If you want to go truly into the crazy range of feats we can use the Black Panther that beat Silver Surfer. Planet busting light speed Black Panther huzzah!
You can see why I haven’t bought that up can’t you?
Wolverine peak human? BWHAHAH, so you think peak humans can swing a three ton object around and throw it (Dragon Man), pick up and throw six humans at once, rip open elevators and throw them, use other humans as a literal club, overpower Spider-Man, lift train cars, and knock out Grizzly Bears with a single punch?
Crossbones? Given how Crossbones doesn’t instantly lose and is hand picked by Red Skull to fight him, he’s evidently comparable to Cap. Even then, he has to use traps or numbers to try and even the fight.
Batroc? The same guy who kicks open bank vaults with three hits is peak human to you?
Your personal ideas has no input on canon feats and the fact that the guide books have repeatedly proven themselves incorrect and contradicts themselves which is why no one takes them seriously.Quote:It isn't. Cap will magically be as tough and as strong as he needs to be, as he is the poster boy, despite the fact that realistically someone like Namor has speed/reactions and strength so far above Cap that Cap would literally be dead in seconds of attempting to fight someone like Namor.
As evident by it saying Thor and Hulk can only lift 100 tons (are you going to argue that a serpent this big is only 100 tons?), Doctor Doom being peak human despite being able to kill a lion in a single hit butt naked, Spider-Man is peak human despite being able to lift trains and dodge bullets, or all of Cap’s feats? Hell even the MCU said Cap was peak human yet he does this, something physically impossible by our peak humans standards.
For an idea of how bad the guidebooks are in terms of stating the stats of characters. Let’s look at Thor first. It gives him a strength ranking of 100, or lifting 100 tons. Yet he can shatter planets, overpower Hulk, and is stronger than the Midgard Serpent (who is larger enough to warp itself around Earth several times). Does that in any way make sense that he can only lift 100 tons max?
Or Hulk who can lift a star (aka sun), shatter a planet by stomping on it, or clapping and wiping out a city?
Or Thanos who can only lift 10 tons (this did get later retconned but the point stands) and yet back handed someone across our solar system?
But wait there's more!That same guide book says Cap is only peak human and Super Skrull can lift over 75 tons but no more than 100. And yet Captain America can overpower them in physical strength...
Are you seeing a pattern?
So what are the options here to reconcile this? They are ether dismiss the guidebooks entirely with said guidebooks getting changed every single time they get released, dismiss the decades of consistent feats (consistent as in they bend over the guidebooks and tell them to go -Yoink- themselves) that are impossible to reconcile with said guidebooks, assume their definition of peak human isn’t what our definition is, or accept that the guidebooks were retconned into oblivion. Wouldn’t be the first time Marvel has done retcons with two key examples being the Doctor Strange and Beyonder retcons.
What do you think makes the most sense?
That’s not how debating works, at all. We take the feats the characters have shown to be able to do and compared them to the feats of other characters. You don’t make up feats out of thin air just because you like it or else debates will never get anywhere.Quote:Put Jerome in the MU and make him subject to their crazy physics and he is outclassing Cap.
I assume you are referring to one of the many non canon crossovers? If so, all the Marvel crossovers with other universes are non canon with one exception, the Godzilla crossover as it got later reference in the monster war comic.Quote:There is precedent for it, I believe, if we consider the case of Angela. Originally from Spawn, strong, fast, a degree of invulnerability but from within that (Spawn/Image) universe nowhere near the level of Thor/Bor/Hela in the slightest. However now she has been transported into the MU she is able to fight and win against that level of character, characters that through strength of arms can destroy planets, are resistant enough to walk in the sun, have magics potent enough that they can manipulate time/space/matter on many planes of existence etc.