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Precursors' lies

OP AquaParrot51638

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In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
The Precursors have an immaterial existence beyond the confines of time. They created a race specifically for the purpose of that race eventually safeguarding each race's opportunity to achieve its maximum potential. That race split into two when some of them went to the far side of the galaxy (humans), and the others started altering their genetics, incorporating the "desirable" genetic traits possessed by other races until they were no longer recognizable as the species they once were (Forerunners).

The Precursors used organic avatars to interact with their other creations that exist within time. When the Forerunners were informed that they were not worthy to be given the Mantle, the Forerunners lashed out at the Precursors in the only way they could... slaughtering the Precursors biological avatars, which it should be noted, didn't defend themselves against the Forerunners' slaughter.

The immaterial Precursors are completely fine. They even preserved some of their organic avatars against the Forerunners' destruction by turning them into dust (like what ancient humanity eventually found) or putting them into stasis (the Primordial being one example). The Forerunners weren't exterminated on the spot because the Precursors were adhering to their own principles of the Mantle, since the Forerunners hadn't reached their full potential yet. So the Precursors waited and set events into motion that would play out about ten-million years later.

The Flood dust was put on planets where humanity would find it, inadvertantly releasing it, making them responsible for the Flood outbreak as a test to see if they were worthy of the Mantle. Humanity passed when they self-sacrificed a third of their worlds in an attempt to defeat the Flood on behalf of all races. Because of that, the Flood stopped attacking humanity, and the Primordial even promised humans that they'd outlast the Forerunners.

1: The Precursors are not operating from a temporal perspective. The whole of time (not just space) is their canvas, so dark parts may emphasize or bring about brighter parts elsewhere/later. Temporal beings don't have the perspective to judge such actions.
2: The Precursors were NOT defeated. They let the Forerunners exterminate their biological avatars, without fighting back.
3: The Precursors are the driving intelligence behind the Graveminds, the same as they were for their avatars before the avatars became the Flood. That wasn't a lie. The Flood falsified the cure against it to preserve humanity against the Forerunners, but the Primordial did truthfully answer all questions the ancient humans asked it, but some of the answers were so terrible that the humans who heard them committed suicide.
4: The Primordial experimented because that was its nature. It didn't need to discover a way to be revived after death, because it already had that genetic ability. The Flood Dust had already brought itself back, per the Precursors' design. It in no way implies that the Precursors needed to discover any means of thwarting death.
JNDreher wrote:
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
The Precursors have an immaterial existence beyond the confines of time. They created a race specifically for the purpose of that race eventually safeguarding each race's opportunity to achieve its maximum potential. That race split into two when some of them went to the far side of the galaxy (humans), and the others started altering their genetics, incorporating the "desirable" genetic traits possessed by other races until they were no longer recognizable as the species they once were (Forerunners).

The Precursors used organic avatars to interact with their other creations that exist within time. When the Forerunners were informed that they were not worthy to be given the Mantle, the Forerunners lashed out at the Precursors in the only way they could... slaughtering the Precursors biological avatars, which it should be noted, didn't defend themselves against the Forerunners' slaughter.

The immaterial Precursors are completely fine. They even preserved some of their organic avatars against the Forerunners' destruction by turning them into dust (like what ancient humanity eventually found) or putting them into stasis (the Primordial being one example). The Forerunners weren't exterminated on the spot because the Precursors were adhering to their own principles of the Mantle, since the Forerunners hadn't reached their full potential yet. So the Precursors waited and set events into motion that would play out about ten-million years later.

The Flood dust was put on planets where humanity would find it, inadvertantly releasing it, making them responsible for the Flood outbreak as a test to see if they were worthy of the Mantle. Humanity passed when they self-sacrificed a third of their worlds in an attempt to defeat the Flood on behalf of all races. Because of that, the Flood stopped attacking humanity, and the Primordial even promised humans that they'd outlast the Forerunners.

1: The Precursors are not operating from a temporal perspective. The whole of time (not just space) is their canvas, so dark parts may emphasize or bring about brighter parts elsewhere/later. Temporal beings don't have the perspective to judge such actions.
2: The Precursors were NOT defeated. They let the Forerunners exterminate their biological avatars, without fighting back.
3: The Precursors are the driving intelligence behind the Graveminds, the same as they were for their avatars before the avatars became the Flood. That wasn't a lie. The Flood falsified the cure against it to preserve humanity against the Forerunners, but the Primordial did truthfully answer all questions the ancient humans asked it, but some of the answers were so terrible that the humans who heard them committed suicide.
4: The Primordial experimented because that was its nature. It didn't need to discover a way to be revived after death, because it already had that genetic ability. The Flood Dust had already brought itself back, per the Precursors' design. It in no way implies that the Precursors needed to discover any means of thwarting death.
Quite an impressive thorough explanation. still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal beings doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just a higher dimension and i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could be just the occupants of a higher dimension meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentions them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I love this kind of concept. I think that this kind of exploration is what can put mystery back in the Halo Universe. After the skirt was raised on the forerunners and their inclusion in the games, the ancient mystery that made Halo so special was lost, as we all realized that the forerunners were just another alien species (and douchey on top of it all)
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I understand clearly but i was talking about their real form that exists outside time, why do they exist as a whole species outside time ? A whole species needs reproduction to carry on existing as their cells will eventually die WITH TIME but precursors aren't affected by it so why are they a civilization that exists outside time ?!
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I love this kind of concept. I think that this kind of exploration is what can put mystery back in the Halo Universe. After the skirt was raised on the forerunners and their inclusion in the games, the ancient mystery that made Halo so special was lost, as we all realized that the forerunners were just another alien species (and douchey on top of it all)
Exactly what i was thinking !!, i mean i posted the thread out of boredom but now that i think about it IT IS exciting to talk about lore again !!
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I understand clearly but i was talking about their real form that exists outside time, why do they exist as a whole species outside time ? A whole species needs reproduction to carry on existing as their cells will eventually die WITH TIME but precursors aren't affected by it so why are they a civilization that exists outside time ?!
You're applying concepts that only matter within time to a race that exists outside of time. We know nothing about Precursor society other than the belief that every race should have the chance to reach its full potential. They don't die, and consequently don't need to reproduce. We don't know how they interact with each other, or even how interaction outside of time would even work.
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I understand clearly but i was talking about their real form that exists outside time, why do they exist as a whole species outside time ? A whole species needs reproduction to carry on existing as their cells will eventually die WITH TIME but precursors aren't affected by it so why are they a civilization that exists outside time ?!
You're applying concepts that only matter within time to a race that exists outside of time. We know nothing about Precursor society other than the belief that every race should have the chance to reach its full potential. They don't die, and consequently don't need to reproduce. We don't know how they interact with each other, or even how interaction outside of time would even work.
Why is this the most woke and genius discussion I have ever come across in a Halo Forum. Although these are the kinds of discussions I like the most. The fact they exist outside time begs the question of how they experience it compared to us, even though they are unaffected by it. I’d imagine, since they can be viewed as immortal gods, that time passes by much faster for them and civilizations and races can pass away within the blink of an eye because they’re so old and don’t die, yet still still control their own “avatar” in that time with the same experience of time within the mortal universe.
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I understand clearly but i was talking about their real form that exists outside time, why do they exist as a whole species outside time ? A whole species needs reproduction to carry on existing as their cells will eventually die WITH TIME but precursors aren't affected by it so why are they a civilization that exists outside time ?!
You're applying concepts that only matter within time to a race that exists outside of time. We know nothing about Precursor society other than the belief that every race should have the chance to reach its full potential. They don't die, and consequently don't need to reproduce. We don't know how they interact with each other, or even how interaction outside of time would even work.
Why is this the most woke and genius discussion I have ever come across in a Halo Forum. Although these are the kinds of discussions I like the most. The fact they exist outside time begs the question of how they experience it compared to us, even though they are unaffected by it. I’d imagine, since they can be viewed as immortal gods, that time passes by much faster for them and civilizations and races can pass away within the blink of an eye because they’re so old and don’t die, yet still still control their own “avatar” in that time with the same experience of time within the mortal universe.
The best explanation I heard is that if all of space and time is like a painting, then a being existing outside of time is the person who can look at the whole painting at once. Past and future are just the left and right sides of the painting, existing simultaneously from the perspective outside of it.
So interventions from outside it are the myriad of brush-strokes throughout the painting.
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Quite an impressive thorough explanation still there are just two ways to go around it, you're explanation is based on the idea that they created the flood as a test and the forerunners fought them as they were arrogant i really don't think that's the case.

if humanity passed by sacrificing a third of the population, the forerunners sacrificed nearly all of its own then why didn't the forerunners pass ?! Also this still doesn't explain the origins of other races as elites and prophets for example.
another point is them being temporal being doesn't necessarily make them god-like since it's just an higher dimension i think i read somewhere that in some quantum theories there are 7 or 11 dimensions !! They could easily be just the occupants of that dimensions meddling with us lower beings of existence, it could be interesting though to have something like that in the halo universe.

Also they are a Species not a single entity in my information and nothing mentioned them having a collective mind of some sorts therefore they need to reproduce in some way, which means they are liable to extinction.
I wouldn't really think of them as the gods of the halo universe they're just extra powerful beings that falsely claim that they are.
The Forerunners weren't self-sacrificial. Their society was built on the premise that the Forerunners would remain the most powerful race, and they ensured this by de-evolving other races while stealing their technology and homeworlds, relocating what members of the other races remained to the far side of the galaxy. When confronted with the Flood, the Forerunners had no qualms with expending the lives of entire species that might have a genetic resistance to the Flood. Even as the Forerunner society peaked, they reserved the larger of the two Arks for their race alone, relegating all other races they were preserving to the smaller Ark. The Forerunners failed the test of worth in every way.

The Precursors seeded the galaxy with life, which probably includes all of the other races. Humanity was unique in that they were custom designed to be a sort of guardian once they'd matured as a civilization, ensuring that each other race had the chance to achieve their own maximum potential.

Some real-world theories involve more than the four measurable space-time dimensions, and in the Halo universe there are additional dimensions constituting Slipspace. However, existence entirely separate from time is an eternal existence, unchanging because change only has meaning in reference to time, and for an eternal being the beginning of time and the end of time are the same, simultaneously and continuously experienced.

Over the ages the Precursors have used countless avatar-races, each one living as a civilization and eventually dying out before the next avatar-race was used. The Forerunners didn't understand this distinction, and consequently the lore from their perspectives doesn't spell this out plainly. But we as the readers of the novels have more information than the Forerunners had, allowing us to put the puzzles together that they missed. The Precursors are only known through their biological avatars, which are not necessary for their existence, but rather are tools they use to manipulate the galaxy towards their desired end.

Also, there's no evidence that the Precursors ever claimed to be "gods". They were what they were, immensely powerful beings that could create life and alter reality at will... which any mortal being would obviously equate to "godhood" at least to some extent. If the whole of space-time is a canvas, the Precursors are the painter, and their interventions are the paint strokes, changing how the final product will turn out.
I still can't quite grasp the fact that they are timely eternal and mortal in the same time, since they're a species they be definition are mortal and to to be mortal means their telomeres-like thingies would shorten with time and since there is no time they won't age and if they don't age they shouldn't have a reproductive function, hence they shouldn't exist as a species as only a one of it's kind will exist so how do they exist as a species ?
You don't live out your life in Skyrim (or the Sims of you prefer). You create an avatar that exists within the world of the game, but that character is not you, even though it is a representation of you, and you control it. That's similar to how it is for Precursors. They exist outside of time. Their avatars exist within time.
I understand clearly but i was talking about their real form that exists outside time, why do they exist as a whole species outside time ? A whole species needs reproduction to carry on existing as their cells will eventually die WITH TIME but precursors aren't affected by it so why are they a civilization that exists outside time ?!
You're applying concepts that only matter within time to a race that exists outside of time. We know nothing about Precursor society other than the belief that every race should have the chance to reach its full potential. They don't die, and consequently don't need to reproduce. We don't know how they interact with each other, or even how interaction outside of time would even work.
Why is this the most woke and genius discussion I have ever come across in a Halo Forum. Although these are the kinds of discussions I like the most. The fact they exist outside time begs the question of how they experience it compared to us, even though they are unaffected by it. I’d imagine, since they can be viewed as immortal gods, that time passes by much faster for them and civilizations and races can pass away within the blink of an eye because they’re so old and don’t die, yet still still control their own “avatar” in that time with the same experience of time within the mortal universe.
The best explanation I heard is that if all of space and time is like a painting, then a being existing outside of time is the person who can look at the whole painting at once. Past and future are just the left and right sides of the painting, existing simultaneously from the perspective outside of it.
So interventions from outside it are the myriad of brush-strokes throughout the painting.
Wow... color me impressed by this explanation. That IS the best explanation I’ve heard!
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
Just to help explain about the Precursors. They exist differently to everything else in the Universe. They exist in the fourth dimension of such. They are timeless and exist outside of time and space essentially. They are able to evolve and de evolve themselves. They can also shapeshift etc. They are able to be primitive and then become the most technologically advanced beings in the Universe. They travel between Universes seeding it with life etc. The difference with the Halo Universe is they were betrayed and where the Precursors stood for life and free will the Flood was the opposite, in which they stood for death and endless suffering. The Precursors are Gods as such, but they can in their ability of becoming anything also be Demons.

The Precursors were in no way defeated by the way, everything they do is by design, some were able to escape the Forerunners betrayal as well, so although the Primordial is no more Precursors still exist, almost certainly in other Universes.

Hope that helps shed a little more light.
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
"2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial."

To borrow a quote from Stargate SG-1, What is a god?

What makes a god such depends on personal definition.
In some real-world mythologies, deities were actually not immortal by nature and in fact could and did die of either old age or other means. The Aesir and Vanir of the Norse myths for one. Some deities in Greek myth died as well.
The concept that a deity should be immortal or in this case invulnerable to injury or death is relatively modern from what I've read. In many myths, deities are injured, die and can be captured by others including humans.
Also not all deities could create sentient or sapient life either and sometimes it wasn't even willing or knowing on their part.
Not all deities were equal in power and in some weren't very powerful at all.

As for Halo, the Precursors could have utterly wiped out the Forerunners with little effort based on what we see of their technology in Silentium. But for reasons unclear the Forerunners won the war. Primordial claims the Precursors let them win which I'm inclined to believe based on what Precursor technology did to the Forerunners in Silentium.

"4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do."

Gods did that in mythology too. The Aesir (particularly Odin) lived in the shadow of the Ragnarok prophecy and were trying to prevent the deaths of the Aesir and indeed all life in Ragnarok and failed no matter how much they tried and died anyway.

Point is, one can be considered a deity and/or be a deity and not be immortal/invulnerable if they still meet one's definition of deityhood.
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
"2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial."

To borrow a quote from Stargate SG-1, What is a god?

What makes a god such depends on personal definition.
In some real-world mythologies, deities were actually not immortal by nature and in fact could and did die of either old age or other means. The Aesir and Vanir of the Norse myths for one. Some deities in Greek myth died as well.
The concept that a deity should be immortal or in this case invulnerable to injury or death is relatively modern from what I've read. In many myths, deities are injured, die and can be captured by others including humans.
Also not all deities could create sentient or sapient life either and sometimes it wasn't even willing or knowing on their part.
Not all deities were equal in power and in some weren't very powerful at all.

As for Halo, the Precursors could have utterly wiped out the Forerunners with little effort based on what we see of their technology in Silentium. But for reasons unclear the Forerunners won the war. Primordial claims the Precursors let them win which I'm inclined to believe based on what Precursor technology did to the Forerunners in Silentium.

"4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do."

Gods did that in mythology too. The Aesir (particularly Odin) lived in the shadow of the Ragnarok prophecy and were trying to prevent the deaths of the Aesir and indeed all life in Ragnarok and failed no matter how much they tried and died anyway.

Point is, one can be considered a deity and/or be a deity and not be immortal/invulnerable if they still meet one's definition of deityhood.
You do have a point but if you apply that concept of deities not really having to be immortal then the forerunners too can be considered as they were so advanced in genetic engineering that:
1- They could evolve themselves.
2- they could de-evolve and evolve other civilizations as was the case with humanity for example.
3-They could utilize precursor tech and could destroy it using their halo array.
4- They created Huragoks and therefore knew how to create life.
also, come to think of it we don't need an explanation to how they defeated the precursors, they simply used the halo's technology on them and destroyed them, as the galaxy was known to be full of precursor tech before the firing of the halo array.
but of course the halo idea came too late into the forerunners-flood war so i think they used the concept in a smaller scale to wipe out the precursors.
UK1V wrote:
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
Just to help explain about the Precursors. They exist differently to everything else in the Universe. They exist in the fourth dimension of such. They are timeless and exist outside of time and space essentially. They are able to evolve and de evolve themselves. They can also shapeshift etc. They are able to be primitive and then become the most technologically advanced beings in the Universe. They travel between Universes seeding it with life etc. The difference with the Halo Universe is they were betrayed and where the Precursors stood for life and free will the Flood was the opposite, in which they stood for death and endless suffering. The Precursors are Gods as such, but they can in their ability of becoming anything also be Demons.

The Precursors were in no way defeated by the way, everything they do is by design, some were able to escape the Forerunners betrayal as well, so although the Primordial is no more Precursors still exist, almost certainly in other Universes.

Hope that helps shed a little more light.
Yeah it's a pretty good argument but as i said the forerunners too were capable of evolving and de evolving other species like what they did with the humans for example, and they created new sentient species like the Hurgok which was a slave but sentient species, however the forerunners were in no way gods or deities as they were created by another species and the whole "why the covenant are the bad guys" idea in the halo universe was that they got so fundamental in believing that forerunners were gods since they had such an advanced tech but as we all know that wasn't true ! We as humans might be falling for that trap though and believing that precursors are deities just because they live in another dimension, to give an example for that lets imagine that you're a painter and you made a picture of a boy playing with a ball, now if that boy was sentient in the picture he'd be in the 2 Dimensional universe and to him you are a god since you live in A higher dimension and can draw him but that's not true since you're only able to affect lesser dimensions and not higher ones or even alter your own dimension and if you take your ability of being able to draw a boy as a reason for being a god then everyone one that exists on earth and it's outer colonies can be a god.
UK1V wrote:
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
Just to help explain about the Precursors. They exist differently to everything else in the Universe. They exist in the fourth dimension of such. They are timeless and exist outside of time and space essentially. They are able to evolve and de evolve themselves. They can also shapeshift etc. They are able to be primitive and then become the most technologically advanced beings in the Universe. They travel between Universes seeding it with life etc. The difference with the Halo Universe is they were betrayed and where the Precursors stood for life and free will the Flood was the opposite, in which they stood for death and endless suffering. The Precursors are Gods as such, but they can in their ability of becoming anything also be Demons.

The Precursors were in no way defeated by the way, everything they do is by design, some were able to escape the Forerunners betrayal as well, so although the Primordial is no more Precursors still exist, almost certainly in other Universes.

Hope that helps shed a little more light.
Yeah it's a pretty good argument but as i said the forerunners too were capable of evolving and de evolving other species like what they did with the humans for example, and they created new sentient species like the Hurgok which was a slave but sentient species, however the forerunners were in no way gods or deities as they were created by another species and the whole "why the covenant are the bad guys" idea in the halo universe was that they got so fundamental in believing that forerunners were gods since they had such an advanced tech but as we all know that wasn't true ! We as humans might be falling for that trap though and believing that precursors are deities just because they live in another dimension, to give an example for that lets imagine that you're a painter and you made a picture of a boy playing with a ball, now if that boy was sentient in the picture he'd be in the 2 Dimensional universe and to him you are a god since you live in A higher dimension and can draw him but that's not true since you're only able to affect lesser dimensions and not higher ones or even alter your own dimension and if you take your ability of being able to draw a boy as a reason for being a god then everyone one that exists on earth and it's outer colonies can be a god.
I think perhaps you’re looking at this too literally. The Prophets fed lies to their Covenant in order to maintain control. Humanity was devolved by Forerunners only due to the fact that Humanity had first fought the Flood on all fronts and it cost them a heavy price to do so. They then had to fight the Forerunners after that and they lost due to being overwhelmed from fighting two wars. The Precursors are un-paralleled to anything else in the universe, they seeded all life in the Halo Universe, and other universes. There’s nothing in my opinion that would be higher than them, given that they exist beyond the boundaries of our perception. The Precursors are Gods, so much so that the Forerunners felt it necessary to hunt them down due to their decisions. This act ultimately birthed the horror we know as the Flood. Their judgement is absolute, that’s the lesson learned from the past.

Due to being devolved Humanity will again face the test of the Mantle. I’m not so certain Humanity would be successful this time round, ONI would be in my opinion the downfall of Humanity based on the real shady horrific things they do in the shadows.
In the halo universe the precursors created the forerunners and humans and then Were about to give the mantle to humanity but then the forerunners rose up and killed every last precursor in the universe and took the mantle. However, when you come to think the precursors are not gods of the universe but quite the opposite they are it's demons if one could say.
and i think so for a variety of reason:
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial.
3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
"2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being. He should have the ability to wipe it out just as easily and won't be killed by it or captured by lesser being like humans did with primordial."

To borrow a quote from Stargate SG-1, What is a god?

What makes a god such depends on personal definition.
In some real-world mythologies, deities were actually not immortal by nature and in fact could and did die of either old age or other means. The Aesir and Vanir of the Norse myths for one. Some deities in Greek myth died as well.
The concept that a deity should be immortal or in this case invulnerable to injury or death is relatively modern from what I've read. In many myths, deities are injured, die and can be captured by others including humans.
Also not all deities could create sentient or sapient life either and sometimes it wasn't even willing or knowing on their part.
Not all deities were equal in power and in some weren't very powerful at all.

As for Halo, the Precursors could have utterly wiped out the Forerunners with little effort based on what we see of their technology in Silentium. But for reasons unclear the Forerunners won the war. Primordial claims the Precursors let them win which I'm inclined to believe based on what Precursor technology did to the Forerunners in Silentium.

"4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do."

Gods did that in mythology too. The Aesir (particularly Odin) lived in the shadow of the Ragnarok prophecy and were trying to prevent the deaths of the Aesir and indeed all life in Ragnarok and failed no matter how much they tried and died anyway.

Point is, one can be considered a deity and/or be a deity and not be immortal/invulnerable if they still meet one's definition of deityhood.
You do have a point but if you apply that concept of deities not really having to be immortal then the forerunners too can be considered as they were so advanced in genetic engineering that:
1- They could evolve themselves.
2- they could de-evolve and evolve other civilizations as was the case with humanity for example.
3-They could utilize precursor tech and could destroy it using their halo array.
4- They created Huragoks and therefore knew how to create life.
also, come to think of it we don't need an explanation to how they defeated the precursors, they simply used the halo's technology on them and destroyed them, as the galaxy was known to be full of precursor tech before the firing of the halo array.
but of course the halo idea came too late into the forerunners-flood war so i think they used the concept in a smaller scale to wipe out the precursors.
To primitive species yes the Forerunners would and have been considered gods. Though with the Forerunners, if one considers deityhood to be more in the sense of the beings who possess actual supernatural power and control over fundamental aspects of existence and are nigh-invulnerable then a species of sufficient knowledge and technological advancement will likely not consider them gods. But with the Precursors, its not so easy as they do have genuine powers and the ability to affect our universe and alter and warp the physics that governs our universe with just their thoughts.

Even at Tier 1, the Forerunners, the most scientifically-oriented and knowledgeable race in the known universe next to the Precursors couldn't understand the Precursors nature no matter how hard they tried. Indeed it may be impossible for non-Precursor species.

But even this may not be enough for some to consider them gods. As I said, its just down to personal definition. Most won't consider a being a god, unless its the in the vain of Monotheism.

As for the way the Forerunners beat the Precursors in the Forerunner-Precursor war, the Forerunners according to the memories of the Path Kethona Forerunners (whos ancestors carried out the genocide) did not have the means to destroy Precursor tech and architecture back then so it's unlikely they possessed Halo-like technology back then. As far as we can tell, the Forerunners only won cos the Precursors by an large didn't fight back and just let them do it.
1- They unleashed the flood to wipe out the galaxy.
The Flood was an accident. The Precursors existed in many forms, many levels, at whim. They habitually cycled from simple to advanced, spiritual to physical, and anything and everything in-between to experience existence fully. Contrary to what has been said here, several of the Precursors were slain in the Forerunner-Precursor War, after the Forerunners found out they were to be exterminated to uphold the Mantle. The details of this are still shrouded in mystery, with both sides having claimed victimhood. After being driven to near-extinction, some Precursors fled the Galaxy, and others reduced themselves to a powder-like state to wait out the Forerunners.

This molecular powder became corrupted and defective over millenia. What was intended to eventually reevolve into Precursors instead spawned the Flood, inducing mutation and madness in any organic being that came into contact with it. The Precursors, unwilling to accept extinction and failure, viewed the Flood as punishment for the Forerunners, and a method of bringing all the Galaxy into unity with the Precursor Will. These Precursors (as it's unclear if there are others yet) became one and the same with the Flood.

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2-They were DEFEATED by the forerunners and a GOD by definition should at least be immortal saying if he had ability to create a sentient being.
This really depends on one's theology. By definition, a god is simply "that which is worshiped", a supermortal entity of great power and influence. In many mythologies around the world, gods die and are reborn (even in Christianity, their god died), and exist in cycles of victory and defeat. The Precursors undoubtedly fit into this category.

Yet still, nothing has ever said that the Precursors are literally gods. They were worshiped as gods by the Forerunners (and probably by Humanity as well), but this doesn't guarantee that they are undefeatable and invincible. They are, in a sense, immortal by their very nature, but immortality does not mean the same as invincibility.

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3-the precursors did lie to humanity a couple of times as for the first was when primordial told the humans he was a precursor when he was actually a Gravemind and the second was manipulating humanity to think they had a cure for the flood so it's not a stretch to say they lied to the forerunners about their origins.
The Primordial was a Precursor, and it was a Gravemind. Covered above, the two are one and the same. Secondly, it was to the Forerunners (through their punishment) that a cure was allowed to be believed in. The Flood never said there was a cure, it was infered through their intelligent preference and actions regarding Humanity and Forerunners.

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4-they were researching a way to be revived after death which really sounds like escaping death to me not a something gods would do.
Covered in Point 2, but this is something gods do all the time. However the Precursors weren't researching anything of the sort; it was a process they had literally done many, many times over.
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