Forums / Community / Halo Universe

Should the games still be highest canon?

OP Kalawaki

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As many are aware, Thel's Swords Of Sangheilios will be wearing a slightly modified variant of the Storm armor in Halo 5, despite consistent showings that they still use the more standard Combat armor instead. According to Grim, 343i's official explanation for this is that they "did not have the time/resources" to give Thel's soldiers unique armor.

Now from a game design perspective this is a reasonable excuse, but from a canon perspective it is not. Games have always been higher canon than other EU, be it books, comics, or anything else. And yet we have a direct statement from 343i saying that they could not accurately depict the Swords of Sangheilios as they should be represented in canon.

So that begs the question; should the games still take top priority when canon is concerned? This was, after all, Bungie's way of operating, and 343i has technically never made such a statement.

Edit: Just to clarify, this thread is not meant to complain about the elite armor. It's to question if the old "Game > EU" statement still holds merit.
Thus far, while 343 have been in charge there hasn't been many cases of one having to trump the other. The one time I can recall it kind of occurring is the Halo 4 terminals, as they depicted many events very differently to the books. 343 said it was meant to be a condensed version, and in-universe we know that the terminals are hosted by the Domain, which is known to alter data without explanation.

As for the Elite armour. Other media has given them the older suits to differentiate them, but doesn't necessarily mean that they never cross over. Jul's forces wear armour that was made by the Covenant before and during the war. As do Thel's. Canonically, they're likely using what they can get their hands on. If they have a stockpile of armour X, then they'll use it. Basically in this case, I'd say Thel's forces make use of all the armours we've seen them use, in games and comics.
Yes, because the games are the basis for the EU, and are the most widespread and commonly known medium for the Halo franchise. Although the casual fan may not notice subtle changes, the games should always be able to bridge from one to the other.
343i's canon policy is that nothing overrides something else.

There will always be some visual/gameplay issues in games in terms of canon, and visual issues in comics. But the story and spirit of the story's elements should remain constant throughout all. Games shouldn't be above books, or vice versa.
And that's how it should be. So we don't get situations like a game rewriting the Fall of Reach and leading people through a convoluted mess to make them work with each other.
Yes, because the games are the basis for the EU, and are the most widespread and commonly known medium for the Halo franchise. Although the casual fan may not notice subtle changes, the games should always be able to bridge from one to the other.
Those of us who actually care about the story shouldn't have the other Halo media we consume be rendered less important to placate those fans who don't care about it.
Yes, because the games are the basis for the EU, and are the most widespread and commonly known medium for the Halo franchise. Although the casual fan may not notice subtle changes, the games should always be able to bridge from one to the other.
Those of us who actually care about the story shouldn't have the other Halo media we consume be rendered less important to placate those fans who don't care about it.
The games are the whole point of it all. They are, after all, the whole reason this particular universe even exists, therefore whatever happens in them is canon.
That being said, most other official sources of Halo lore at least make the attempt to avoid introducing elements which would irreparably break the story and its continuity. There is, after all, a story bible filled with all the lore that exists at present, and most of the writers are at least respectful of it, if not strictly adherent to it. 343 has people who go through all of the lore & try to smoothe over the more glaringly obvious errors, either through successive reprints or by introducing later elements which explain differences or tie disconnected aspects back together. Like any literary universe which has been built over time by numerous contributors, inconsistencies will occur, but thus far they haven't done irreparable harm to the overall flow of events and story.
And that is why everything being equally canon, unless otherwise specified with things like trailers and what-not, is better than just having the games be the highest canon with everything else less important. After all, the books have done more to flesh out the canon than the games ever did.
Nothing depicted in Halo 5 thus far breaks canon, so not sure what the issue is here.
I didn't particularly care for the Bungie era of things where games superseded all other mediums in the universe to the point that they were largely ignored. That's an old school way of curating a fictional universe and it doesn't work today as management of properties has become a lot more streamlined. 343 Industries' way of doing business incorporating all mediums as equal forms of canon is a good practice. Nothing inherently negates another entry's standing in the universe nor does it affect quality simply because it's interactive, audio, or print.
343 has the everything is canon thing. In the halo2a terminals there are the original grunts and the Halo 4 grunts. Esculation has the bird like jackels, and the reptile ones. Esculation also shows the SOS using halo 3 armor. Hunters in the Dark shows another armor set used by the SOS. You also see the SOS armor in the h2a epilogue and prologue. It is all canon.
Grizzlei wrote:
I didn't particularly care for the Bungie era of things where games superseded all other mediums in the universe to the point that they were largely ignored. That's an old school way of curating a fictional universe and it doesn't work today as management of properties has become a lot more streamlined. 343 Industries' way of doing business incorporating all mediums as equal forms of canon is a good practice. Nothing inherently negates another entry's standing in the universe nor does it affect quality simply because it's interactive, audio, or print.
This is true, particularly where HR and TFoR are concerned. However in my opinion, 343 tends to "over canonize" on occasion. Multiplayer being canon in each game for example. In any case, despite everything being equally canon, I'm going to say that the games still hold a slight edge to everything else when it comes to discrepancies.
No. Everything is equally canon and should stay that way. The games, while I love them, tend to be the least interesting in terms of story. But all should be equal in terms of canon.
Everything should be equal canon. There just isn't enough info, time, detail in the games that can expand the universe as far as games, novels, comics, live action series etc as a whole. Plus, if games are the only thing cannon then what is the point of buying the books and exploring additional media for Halo? Sounds like a waste of money to me if that was the case.
No, I much prefer 343's canon policy to Bungie's insistence that the game's should override everything. It creates a larger and more interconnected universe. And it also shows respect for fans of the lore who go off to explore these other mediums of the Halo series. Prioritizing the games over other mediums such as the books and catering to casual players is why Bungie's story started to decline after Halo 2 (excluding Halo 3: ODST). Halo 3's story was incredibly shallow in comparison to Halo: CE and Halo 2, and Halo: Reach largely ignored the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach.

Ensuring that everything is equally canon and is accessible to everybody is the way to go. It's great as long as you don't need to read the books and comics to understand the stories of the game. There were some things in Halo 4 that would have been better contextualized for players if they had read the books, but the story of Halo 4 was quite a compelling character study and it only benefited from the inclusion of elements from the expanded universe. It looks like Halo 5: Guardians is set to do the same thing with the inclusion of Blue Team.

So essentially, you should't have to read the books or comics to understand the more accessible stories in the games, but these details shouldn't be ignored. Instead they should be part of the foundation for building the story of the game. And the games definitely shouldn't erase the EU which dedicated lore fans have invested money in.
Kalawaki wrote:
As many are aware, Thel's Swords Of Sangheilios will be wearing a slightly modified variant of the Storm armor in Halo 5, despite consistent showings that they still use the more standard Combat armor instead. According to Grim, 343i's official explanation for this is that they "did not have the time/resources" to give Thel's soldiers unique armor.

Now from a game design perspective this is a reasonable excuse, but from a canon perspective it is not. Games have always been higher canon than other EU, be it books, comics, or anything else. And yet we have a direct statement from 343i saying that they could not accurately depict the Swords of Sangheilios as they should be represented in canon.

So that begs the question; should the games still take top priority when canon is concerned? This was, after all, Bungie's way of operating, and 343i has technically never made such a statement.

Edit: Just to clarify, this thread is not meant to complain about the elite armor. It's to question if the old "Game > EU" statement still holds merit.
No Grim said that they use whatever armour is more accessible, which happens to be storm armour. That's probably because the Classic combat harness was manufactured on High Charity and the Sangheili tend to prefer different armours, though the combat harness remains in use post war due to its effectiveness.
I agree i like the 343 model and i think every media movies, games, etc. should follow there model looking at you star wars. Although honestly i think it depends on the series and how it started halo was a game first so the games are the canon that should have the biggest impact wise while the other media(books, comics, etc.) is just to flesh out and add life to the universe. Now say if halo started out as a book series than the books would be the highest canon while everything else would be the ones fleshing out the universe, and this is partially why i think books to movies or games to movies don't work because they try to make the movies drive the canon when the movies should be about everything else but the main characters honestly and just build up the universe like forward unto dawn was a good halo movie it did have Master chief in it but in the last 20 minutes everything else was about a completely different but still connected story.
I believe that the games are the highest canon, as they embody the lore which MOST people have had access to and know. Since it was the games that set this Universe in motion, it should be the games that trump all else.

That being said, I think the games should make every effort to try and have respect for the lore established by other media. Having a strong sense of continuity makes the universe feel more alive.
The Books are higher depending on the Period in the Lore. The Books a ment to fill in the Gaps and explain. While the Games cover a much smaller scale that tells the Story in a much more personal Light.
And that is why everything being equally canon, unless otherwise specified with things like trailers and what-not, is better than just having the games be the highest canon with everything else less important. After all, the books have done more to flesh out the canon than the games ever did.
Fair point.
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Kalawaki wrote:
As many are aware, Thel's Swords Of Sangheilios will be wearing a slightly modified variant of the Storm armor in Halo 5, despite consistent showings that they still use the more standard Combat armor instead. According to Grim, 343i's official explanation for this is that they "did not have the time/resources" to give Thel's soldiers unique armor.

Now from a game design perspective this is a reasonable excuse, but from a canon perspective it is not. Games have always been higher canon than other EU, be it books, comics, or anything else. And yet we have a direct statement from 343i saying that they could not accurately depict the Swords of Sangheilios as they should be represented in canon.

So that begs the question; should the games still take top priority when canon is concerned? This was, after all, Bungie's way of operating, and 343i has technically never made such a statement.

Edit: Just to clarify, this thread is not meant to complain about the elite armor. It's to question if the old "Game > EU" statement still holds merit.
No Grim said that they use whatever armour is more accessible, which happens to be storm armour. That's probably because the Classic combat harness was manufactured on High Charity and the Sangheili tend to prefer different armours, though the combat harness remains in use post war due to its effectiveness.
That is more accurate regarding what I said, correct. Additionally, folks should typically shy away from the "all or nothing" mentality that plagues a lot of attempted headcanon. What you see in H5 can be different than what you see in H2A, but there is no reason that some of the Elites serving under the SoS banner can't be wearing Storm harnesses, while others are outfitted in the more standard combat harness. Eliminating that option is frankly silly and unrealistic.

Frustrations at concessions or differentiation for the same character is certainly an understandable thing (though again, is still subject to the myriad of "real life" circumstances I've spoken to ad nauseam), but not assuming that a large group might have some differences found within that group? That's a bit much...

<3
Grim
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