Forums / Community / Halo Universe

Should the games still be highest canon?

OP Kalawaki

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and Halo: Reach largely ignored the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach.
Revealing that there was more to the battle than the hour-long zurg rush isn't really a retcon. If anything, the events of Contact Harvest are more at odds with TFOR than Reach is, in my opinion.

What IS a retcon is the EXACT time the Pillar of Autumn left the system, and hopefully, the means as to which Cortana obtained the Alpha Halo coordinates. Because honestly, I much prefer that Cortana would have to spend days deciphering the Sigma Octanus crystal data by using the Sword Base artifact as some sort of Rosetta Stone, rather than the crystal basically boiling down to a simple treasure map that, when oriented correctly, will lead you to where One-eyed Willie's gold is. Which Cortana only thought to look at because Chief, a guy who's life basically REVOLVES around fighting aliens, and hanging out on ships between battles, recognized navigation symbols. Seriously, it's like being curious as to how it was possible that a hot dog vendor knew what ketchup was.
AFAIK, 343 did never state that games are the highest Canon, especially since Halo 5 will have what seems to be an Adaption of the book "The Fall of Reach," essentialy making that Canon. They might still try to merge the book and the game Canon, because Jun (and therefore Reach) still is Canon in a way.
The armors and characters you see in games are usually just a Portion of the diversity, so they are Canon, but just to an extent.

One of the few things that is not explainable is how specific characters like the arbiter changed from their H2/3 anatomy to their H4 anatomy.
Cham Koopa wrote:
AFAIK, 343 did never state that games are the highest Canon, especially since Halo 5 will have what seems to be an Adaption of the book "The Fall of Reach," essentialy making that Canon. They might still try to merge the book and the game Canon, because Jun (and therefore Reach) still is Canon in a way.
The armors and characters you see in games are usually just a Portion of the diversity, so they are Canon, but just to an extent.

One of the few things that is not explainable is how specific characters like the arbiter changed from their H2/3 anatomy to their H4 anatomy.
You do realize Fall of Reach and everything else aside from Odd One Out and Dead or Alive's reason for Nicole in the game (she exists in Halo but her appearance in Dead or Alive 4 and the events that lead to it do not) is canon and has been for years right? They aren't JUST making FoR canon this year, it's been canon since it was released in 2001
and Halo: Reach largely ignored the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach.
Revealing that there was more to the battle than the hour-long zurg rush isn't really a retcon. If anything, the events of Contact Harvest are more at odds with TFOR than Reach is, in my opinion.

What IS a retcon is the EXACT time the Pillar of Autumn left the system, and hopefully, the means as to which Cortana obtained the Alpha Halo coordinates. Because honestly, I much prefer that Cortana would have to spend days deciphering the Sigma Octanus crystal data by using the Sword Base artifact as some sort of Rosetta Stone, rather than the crystal basically boiling down to a simple treasure map that, when oriented correctly, will lead you to where One-eyed Willie's gold is. Which Cortana only thought to look at because Chief, a guy who's life basically REVOLVES around fighting aliens, and hanging out on ships between battles, recognized navigation symbols. Seriously, it's like being curious as to how it was possible that a hot dog vendor knew what ketchup was.
It didn't "reveal" more to the battle.
It completely changed the Battle of Reach from a massive, global invasion where the UNSC threw everything it had at the largest Covenant fleet yet... to a month long siege where most of the damage was dealt by an unlikely Supercarrier.

After some work, the dates and such do match up, but a lot of things had to happen. Like... more than half the planet didn't know it was under attack for almost a month, or the destruction of Reach being a ploy by Admiral Parangosky to jumpstart Red Flag.

If all Reach did was flesh out the Fall of Reach, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead it completely rewrote the nature of the battle.
Cham Koopa wrote:
AFAIK, 343 did never state that games are the highest Canon, especially since Halo 5 will have what seems to be an Adaption of the book "The Fall of Reach," essentialy making that Canon. They might still try to merge the book and the game Canon, because Jun (and therefore Reach) still is Canon in a way.
The armors and characters you see in games are usually just a Portion of the diversity, so they are Canon, but just to an extent.

One of the few things that is not explainable is how specific characters like the arbiter changed from their H2/3 anatomy to their H4 anatomy.
You do realize Fall of Reach and everything else aside from Odd One Out and Dead or Alive's reason for Nicole in the game (she exists in Halo but her appearance in Dead or Alive 4 and the events that lead to it do not) is canon and has been for years right? They aren't JUST making FoR canon this year, it's been canon since it was released in 2001
You do realize that Halo Reach was contradicting Fall of Reach and, being a game, would've overwritten the Canon? Since Reach was out, the whole Situation about the Canon during Reach/Fall of Reach is unclear, and AFAIK a couple years ago 343 already tried to merge them. Now that they are making an animated series for Halo 5, called "Fall of Reach," they'll most likely set everything right and merge them for once.

So to answer the question in the OP: 343 does not view the games as highest Canon, because otherwise they wouldn't have made a series which Looks like it'll stick more to the book than to the game.
JSA343 wrote:
and Halo: Reach largely ignored the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach.
Revealing that there was more to the battle than the hour-long zurg rush isn't really a retcon. If anything, the events of Contact Harvest are more at odds with TFOR than Reach is, in my opinion.

What IS a retcon is the EXACT time the Pillar of Autumn left the system, and hopefully, the means as to which Cortana obtained the Alpha Halo coordinates. Because honestly, I much prefer that Cortana would have to spend days deciphering the Sigma Octanus crystal data by using the Sword Base artifact as some sort of Rosetta Stone, rather than the crystal basically boiling down to a simple treasure map that, when oriented correctly, will lead you to where One-eyed Willie's gold is. Which Cortana only thought to look at because Chief, a guy who's life basically REVOLVES around fighting aliens, and hanging out on ships between battles, recognized navigation symbols. Seriously, it's like being curious as to how it was possible that a hot dog vendor knew what ketchup was.
It didn't "reveal" more to the battle.
It completely changed the Battle of Reach from a massive, global invasion where the UNSC threw everything it had at the largest Covenant fleet yet... to a month long siege where most of the damage was dealt by an unlikely Supercarrier.

After some work, the dates and such do match up, but a lot of things had to happen. Like... more than half the planet didn't know it was under attack for almost a month, or the destruction of Reach being a ploy by Admiral Parangosky to jumpstart Red Flag.

If all Reach did was flesh out the Fall of Reach, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead it completely rewrote the nature of the battle.
Likewise, the "hour long zerg rush", as Alpha put it, was what gave the battle of Reach such extraordinary weight towards humanity being on their last legs. It highlighted the importance of Installation 04's discovery and the events that transpired thereof leading up to the Great Schism far more than "you are here, team Noble, to ensure the delivery of this contrived plot device to the Pillar of Should-Be-In-Space".
JSA343 wrote:
and Halo: Reach largely ignored the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach.
Revealing that there was more to the battle than the hour-long zurg rush isn't really a retcon. If anything, the events of Contact Harvest are more at odds with TFOR than Reach is, in my opinion.

What IS a retcon is the EXACT time the Pillar of Autumn left the system, and hopefully, the means as to which Cortana obtained the Alpha Halo coordinates. Because honestly, I much prefer that Cortana would have to spend days deciphering the Sigma Octanus crystal data by using the Sword Base artifact as some sort of Rosetta Stone, rather than the crystal basically boiling down to a simple treasure map that, when oriented correctly, will lead you to where One-eyed Willie's gold is. Which Cortana only thought to look at because Chief, a guy who's life basically REVOLVES around fighting aliens, and hanging out on ships between battles, recognized navigation symbols. Seriously, it's like being curious as to how it was possible that a hot dog vendor knew what ketchup was.
It didn't "reveal" more to the battle.
It completely changed the Battle of Reach from a massive, global invasion where the UNSC threw everything it had at the largest Covenant fleet yet... to a month long siege where most of the damage was dealt by an unlikely Supercarrier.

After some work, the dates and such do match up, but a lot of things had to happen. Like... more than half the planet didn't know it was under attack for almost a month, or the destruction of Reach being a ploy by Admiral Parangosky to jumpstart Red Flag.

If all Reach did was flesh out the Fall of Reach, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead it completely rewrote the nature of the battle.
Not to mention that there's still other stuff that doesn't quite mesh well together.

By the time the covenant attacked in space in the book the MAC cannons were still up. and yet they never used them to take down the supercarrier. Or any of the other invasion force that arrived after the super carrier went down

Key's talking to the Spartans like they didn't know anything about the invasion, despite the fact that in the game Jun mentions Red Team helping civilian evac ops.

How the hell did Key's or anyone else in orbit at the shipyards not know about the invasion? you can literally see the planet burning from space!

Why wasn't key's ordered to abandon reach? You would expect that someone from ONI would have told him not to come back since they were planning red flag during the invasion.

The dates may match up but the game and book just don't work well together. One of these days we need a total remake of Reach, that either makes more sense with the book. Or replaces both of them.
Yes, because the games are the basis for the EU, and are the most widespread and commonly known medium for the Halo franchise. Although the casual fan may not notice subtle changes, the games should always be able to bridge from one to the other.
Those of us who actually care about the story shouldn't have the other Halo media we consume be rendered less important to placate those fans who don't care about it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Everything is equal.

Well the only thing to note is marketing.

Marketing can be retconned or removed at any time for obvious reasons.

Though unless the marketing conflicts with other media. Its treated equally.

An example of a grey area is I Love Bees. Due to the errors in it. But its still canon.
CIA391 wrote:
Everything is equal.

Well the only thing to note is marketing.

Marketing can be retconned or removed at any time for obvious reasons.

Though unless the marketing conflicts with other media. Its treated equally.

An example of a grey area is I Love Bees. Due to the errors in it. But its still canon.
Yes I would say that theoretically marketing campaigns are definitely the... "squishiest" of details that could be interpreted as canonical.
CIA391 wrote:
Everything is equal.

Well the only thing to note is marketing.

Marketing can be retconned or removed at any time for obvious reasons.

Though unless the marketing conflicts with other media. Its treated equally.

An example of a grey area is I Love Bees. Due to the errors in it. But its still canon.
Yes I would say that theoretically marketing campaigns are definitely the... "squishiest" of details that could be interpreted as canonical.
I couldn't resist
Hmmmm...Yes and no.

While the game shouldn't be considered the highest or "end all be all", it should bridge the connecting media in a way that doesn't leave the players ( who have not accessed that information for whatever reason ) in the dark, or misinformed.
-Yoink- yes, if a universe starts with a game, it would be completely illogic to base it somewhere else
No, the games shouldn't be more canon than other media anymore.
They are equal, and for me and part of this community, if some media has to have more canonical importance it's books.
Gameplay, resources, time reasons and technical limitations prevent any game from being 100% canon, while in the books if the author is able and very followed by canon team this is entirely possible.
Sevey01 wrote:
-Yoink- yes, if a universe starts with a game, it would be completely illogic to base it somewhere else
The Fall of Reach released before Halo: Combat Evolved just so you know.
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Kalawaki wrote:
As many are aware, Thel's Swords Of Sangheilios will be wearing a slightly modified variant of the Storm armor in Halo 5, despite consistent showings that they still use the more standard Combat armor instead. According to Grim, 343i's official explanation for this is that they "did not have the time/resources" to give Thel's soldiers unique armor.

Now from a game design perspective this is a reasonable excuse, but from a canon perspective it is not. Games have always been higher canon than other EU, be it books, comics, or anything else. And yet we have a direct statement from 343i saying that they could not accurately depict the Swords of Sangheilios as they should be represented in canon.

So that begs the question; should the games still take top priority when canon is concerned? This was, after all, Bungie's way of operating, and 343i has technically never made such a statement.

Edit: Just to clarify, this thread is not meant to complain about the elite armor. It's to question if the old "Game > EU" statement still holds merit.
No Grim said that they use whatever armour is more accessible, which happens to be storm armour. That's probably because the Classic combat harness was manufactured on High Charity and the Sangheili tend to prefer different armours, though the combat harness remains in use post war due to its effectiveness.
That is more accurate regarding what I said, correct. Additionally, folks should typically shy away from the "all or nothing" mentality that plagues a lot of attempted headcanon. What you see in H5 can be different than what you see in H2A, but there is no reason that some of the Elites serving under the SoS banner can't be wearing Storm harnesses, while others are outfitted in the more standard combat harness. Eliminating that option is frankly silly and unrealistic.

Frustrations at concessions or differentiation for the same character is certainly an understandable thing (though again, is still subject to the myriad of "real life" circumstances I've spoken to ad nauseam), but not assuming that a large group might have some differences found within that group? That's a bit much...

<3
Grim
Especially considering that a ton of armours were in use and are in use and built by multiple factories for a significantly large amount of people all over the Orion Arm.
Yes, but everything pre-Halo 4 era.
343i's take on Halo lore comes across as distracting, disruptive and severely alters the already well established Halo Universe that Bungie created. Plus Halo 4 ruined the mystery of the Forerunners and idea of ancient Humans once having an advanced interstellar empire is a baffling (not to mention stupid) idea.
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