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Should there be hostile humans in halo: Infinite

OP AnobodyYT

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Since the banished are in the game (and lorewise the banished has humans in thier ranks) do you think there should or shouldn't be hostile humans in the game (think lorewise and gameplay wise)
Would be interesting to see, but I got the impression from Escharum's speech that he doesn't much care for humans. He directed his vitriol at the UNSC specifically, but it felt like he just doesn't like humans in general.

Atriox may not care, but Escharum's forces within the Banished may not be so keen on working with humans.
Highly doubtful. While insurgent humans are something that I can understand and even be sympathetic towards in some instances in the halo universe, they would't make the best enemies to fight. Also, if they put too many humans enemies in the game, how would it be any different mechanically and game play wise than any other sci fi FPS or military shooter? A interesting concept might be playing as a regular UNSC marine vs a group like The Keepers of the One Freedom. A varied mix of tactics considering human enemies are easier to kill than Brutes and Hunters. It could make for some intense gameplay since you aren't a spartan. But for infinite.....nah. Not gonna happen.
Would be interesting to see, but I got the impression from Escharum's speech that he doesn't much care for humans. He directed his vitriol at the UNSC specifically, but it felt like he just doesn't like humans in general.

Atriox may not care, but Escharum's forces within the Banished may not be so keen on working with humans.
Which is stupid considering Elites and Brutes are working together in the Banished. It would be bad writing for the Banished Brutes and Elites to forgive each other for slaughtering during the Great Schism, and not forgive the humans for the Human-Covenant war they instigated.

Atriox said "vengeance is petty, vengeance has no reward" and forgave the Silent Shadow Elites who were genocidally slaughtering his Brutes. Atriox is even willing to recruit humans should they wish to join. If Escharum wants to honor Atriox's will, going on a genocidal campaign is the perfect way to spit on it.

Hating humans is a garbage motive at this point in the lore. I hope Escharum and his group of Banished are fighting the UNSC for an actual good reason that will be revealed in the story, and not just because they're humans.
Would be interesting to see, but I got the impression from Escharum's speech that he doesn't much care for humans. He directed his vitriol at the UNSC specifically, but it felt like he just doesn't like humans in general.

Atriox may not care, but Escharum's forces within the Banished may not be so keen on working with humans.
Which is stupid considering Elites and Brutes are working together in the Banished. It would be bad writing for the Banished Brutes and Elites to forgive each other for slaughtering during the Great Schism, and not forgive the humans for the Human-Covenant war they instigated.

Atriox said "vengeance is petty, vengeance has no reward" and forgave the Silent Shadow Elites who were genocidally slaughtering his Brutes. Atriox is even willing to recruit humans should they wish to join. If Escharum wants to honor Atriox's will, going on a genocidal campaign is the perfect way to spit on it.

Hating humans is a garbage motive at this point in the lore. I hope Escharum and his group of Banished are fighting the UNSC for an actual good reason that will be revealed in the story, and not just because they're humans.
Totally agree with you. I was just pointing out that the vibe I got from Escharum was extremely xenophobic toward humans. I hope I'm just reading too much into it, because human Banished would be way too cool. Though I'd imagine their treatment would fall somewhere between the Unggoy and the Kig Yar within the Banished. Definitely not an enviable position even if the Banished accept you as one of their own.
It's one of the standing hallmarks of the game that you don't kill humans in the campaign. I'm hopeful it can stay this way.
Would be interesting to see, but I got the impression from Escharum's speech that he doesn't much care for humans. He directed his vitriol at the UNSC specifically, but it felt like he just doesn't like humans in general.

Atriox may not care, but Escharum's forces within the Banished may not be so keen on working with humans.
Which is stupid considering Elites and Brutes are working together in the Banished. It would be bad writing for the Banished Brutes and Elites to forgive each other for slaughtering during the Great Schism, and not forgive the humans for the Human-Covenant war they instigated.

Atriox said "vengeance is petty, vengeance has no reward" and forgave the Silent Shadow Elites who were genocidally slaughtering his Brutes. Atriox is even willing to recruit humans should they wish to join. If Escharum wants to honor Atriox's will, going on a genocidal campaign is the perfect way to spit on it.

Hating humans is a garbage motive at this point in the lore. I hope Escharum and his group of Banished are fighting the UNSC for an actual good reason that will be revealed in the story, and not just because they're humans.
Totally agree with you. I was just pointing out that the vibe I got from Escharum was extremely xenophobic toward humans. I hope I'm just reading too much into it, because human Banished would be way too cool. Though I'd imagine their treatment would fall somewhere between the Unggoy and the Kig Yar within the Banished. Definitely not an enviable position even if the Banished accept you as one of their own.
I never really got that impression, him dismissing the UNSC struck me as more bravado than having any particular avarice to humans. Hell, he seems to have a genuine respect for John.
I honestly wouldn't be opposed to fighting against Banishes humans, but the closest we'll probably get to that is fighting against Banished Brutes or Elites using human weaponary, which is a shame really as the intial point of the Spartan-IIs was to quell hostile humans. It'd also mix up the gameplay loop, but then again it may be too risky and 343 wants to play it kinda safe for the time being.
It's one of the standing hallmarks of the game that you don't kill humans in the campaign. I'm hopeful it can stay this way
'Humans good, Aliens bad' makes for a juvenile childish dumbed down story at this point in the lore, especially after Halo 2 where the story's sophistication made the leap with Elites joining forces with humans. For gameplay reasons I can understand why some would want to keep humans as good guys and aliens as bad guys. Story-wise? absolutely not.
It's one of the standing hallmarks of the game that you don't kill humans in the campaign. I'm hopeful it can stay this way.
Someone's forgotten about certain segments in ODST and Halo 2.
AnobodyYT wrote:
Since the banished are in the game (and lorewise the banished has humans in thier ranks) do you think there should or shouldn't be hostile humans in the game (think lorewise and gameplay wise)
You're mixing up the Keepers of the One Freedom with the Banished. No human has been confirmed to be a member of the Banished.
I honestly wouldn't be opposed to fighting against Banishes humans, but the closest we'll probably get to that is fighting against Banished Brutes or Elites using human weaponary, which is a shame really as the intial point of the Spartan-IIs was to quell hostile humans. It'd also mix up the gameplay loop, but then again it may be too risky and 343 wants to play it kinda safe for the time being.
But it would be fun to fight mercenary/rouge Spartans in the campaign also what about flashbacks?
Plus it would make sense to fight some humans who sided with the banished
AnobodyYT please don't post consecutively. You can use the edit button to add more info into something you've posted. Posting consecutively is a form of spam. If you have questions about this send me a private message- let's not derail the thread.
I think the only humans we could fight against is the insurrectionists, but i don't see how they could get to a halo. Also the gameplay would not be good, kill a human as a spartan it would be like kill a grunt
Honestly probably not. I can't imagine humans being done in any way in a Halo game where they'd actually be interesting to fight.

For example. I always wanted to fight humans on Quarantine Zone as the Arbiter, but after modding it in, it's actually not very fun because humans lack variety other than their weapons. There isn't really much you could do to make humans an enemy that's fun to fight when you're an eight foot tall supersoldier death machine.
It's one of the standing hallmarks of the game that you don't kill humans in the campaign. I'm hopeful it can stay this way
'Humans good, Aliens bad' makes for a juvenile childish dumbed down story at this point in the lore, especially after Halo 2 where the story's sophistication made the leap with Elites joining forces with humans. For gameplay reasons I can understand why some would want to keep humans as good guys and aliens as bad guys. Story-wise? absolutely not.
The flip side to that though is that having humans become cannon fodder for the Chief would be a cheap move given that it would be a significant departure from the current series, and can easily be avoided using the sophisticated parameters of the current story.
As factional enemies? Probably no. But as a mechanism? I do see a possibility. In Halo CE if you kill Keyes at the first level you get to fight invincible marines, and if you kill too many marines (even if just accidentally splashing them), they will turn on you. I wouldn't oppose 343i from bringing back this "feature" in Infinite.
As factional enemies? Probably no. But as a mechanism? I do see a possibility. In Halo CE if you kill Keyes at the first level you get to fight invincible marines, and if you kill too many marines (even if just accidentally splashing them), they will turn on you. I wouldn't oppose 343i from bringing back this "feature" in Infinite.
Short-lived enough to be pointless though. Those Marines gunned you down quick.
It's corroborated through lore that insurgent/insurrectionist/dissident movements against the UNSC/UEG have had a postwar resurgence in the wake of H3 ("New Blood," and "Bad Blood," novels being the most notable IMO), so it isn't a completely outlandish idea that there could be some militant factions of malcontents actively operating during the time frame for Halo: Infinite.

However, there are a few in-lore factors that strongly indicate to me that we won't be seeing and actively engaging with them during Infinite.

  1. Insurrectionist means for waging war are limited, especially in the postwar era. I believe the single largest "get" the postwar Innies (at least the faction we're informed on) had was
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    , which through the events of the "Blood" books, they essentially lose as an asset, and which never granted an insurmountable advantage to them in the first place (despite having been a shrewd and potentially very incisive option). In any event, the Innies likely don't have the critical infrastructure to successfully engage in a remote theater of operations like Zeta Halo, even if they could pose a considerable threat to either the UNSC or Banished forces present there (it's likely they couldn't).
  2. The rise of the Created and the Banished into prominent malicious actors generally opposed to Humanity, regardless of faction loyalty, means that the Innies and the UNSC are backed into a similar corner to that which they were during the early days of the H/C War-- namely, mutually threatened by an overwhelmingly powerful common enemy. Insurrectionist factions would be incredibly foolish to spend military resources trying to fell the UNSC when it is likely that they will, once again, desperately need to forge a protective alliance with them in the face of these new opponents. The possibility of the Banished making an alliance with the Innies, while intriguing on its face, seems like too remote and dangerous a possibility for the Insurrectionist leadership to entertain or pursue. I'm not aware of any serious reason to expect that the Banished would be interested in such an alliance, either, especially considering the very meager gains the Innies could offer them.
That's all Lore-based reasoning, and I stand by it all, but I do think there's a potentially even more conclusive reason we won't be fighting Innies in Infinite.

Microsoft has been concertedly deescalating the amount of mature content in Halo pretty much ever since Bungie left the helm. I think MS's vision for Halo is a franchise that can have the mass market appeal of something like Star Wars. To accomplish this, introducing a nuanced Human opponent in addition to the more clear-cut "Aliens and Space-Robots," fare is counterproductive. A dichotomy of clear good vs evil in the form of a United Human front in opposition to alien factions hellbent on humanities' demise allows for easier and less morally murky storytelling in the mainline games. It's certainly reductionist for MS to go this route when so much of what's made the series so great for so long is precisely the kinds of moral questions it's provided (Morality/necessity of things like the S-II program, etc.), but it is much more marketable to wider audiences- less objectionable to doting parents, more engaging for younger kids, etc.

I think MS and 343i are motivated to minimize the amount of Human vs Human violence present in the series, especially in the most visible and visual mediums (the games). We'll have to see how the Showtime show operates with regards to this to say for sure one way or another, but years of Scholastic publishing partnerships, Mattel and Mega Bloks toy licensing, kids Halloween costumes and pajamas, etc have pretty thoroughly convinced me that it's Microsoft's priority.
I feel bad when I take out the Marines in Warzone. And those are just simulation troopers. I don't want to see Chief popping people in the head during campaign!
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