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So Who Would Really Win? Arby or the Chief?

OP Goju Knight

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You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.

True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.
Jai-006 would beg to differ.
Master Chief would probably win all types of battles against arbiter, except for naval battles.
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.
I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.
Maybe the reason Thel has a HUD is because he wears contacts we did see in the Halo 2 cutscenes Thel had black eyes while wearing his standard yellow elite armor and while he had no armor. But after he put his armor on his eyes were and amber color. This is only speculation though I'm only saying this would make sense.
Narthinex wrote:
Maybe the reason Thel has a HUD is because he wears contacts we did see in the Halo 2 cutscenes Thel had black eyes while wearing his standard yellow elite armor and while he had no armor. But after he put his armor on his eyes were and amber color. This is only speculation though I'm only saying this would make sense.
This has been theorised before tbh. I believe it's probably the case.
Luke Del wrote:
You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.


True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.

Jai-006 would beg to differ.
I beg to differ...Jai handled the fight very well considering and left uninjured, unlike Thel who received a broken rib!
Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.

I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.
Only in terms of skill, Chief still has plenty of training and 20 years won't change much, especially considering Chiefs reaction time in armour is roughly 4 milliseconds!
Luke Del wrote:
You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.


True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.


Jai-006 would beg to differ.

I beg to differ...Jai handled the fight very well considering and left uninjured, unlike Thel who received a broken rib!


It was an even match, I wouldn't say that leaves a Spartan II "perfectly capable" of handling Thel as it could have gone either way. If Jai had been "perfectly capable" of dispatching Thel, he would have done during that confict.

Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.

Only in terms of skill, Chief still has plenty of training and 20 years won't change much, especially considering Chiefs reaction time in armour is roughly 4 milliseconds!
20 years will make a lot of difference. If you say that 20 years won't make a lot of difference then you should probably also accept that a 12 year old Spartan III would easily best a 40 year old Spartan II as the Spartan IIIs had better training. Thel reached the rank of Supreme Commander, meaning he must have thousands of confirmed kills under his belt as we know that Elites are promoted based on their skill in combat and number of kills. John has also nearly been bested by Elites in hand-to-hand in the past, and those Elites were nowhere near as skilled as Thel.
Luke Del wrote:
Luke Del wrote:
You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.


True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.


Jai-006 would beg to differ.


I beg to differ...Jai handled the fight very well considering and left uninjured, unlike Thel who received a broken rib!


It was an even match, I wouldn't say that leaves a Spartan II "perfectly capable" of handling Thel as it could have gone either way. If Jai had been "perfectly capable" of dispatching Thel, he would have done during that confict.

Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.


Only in terms of skill, Chief still has plenty of training and 20 years won't change much, especially considering Chiefs reaction time in armour is roughly 4 milliseconds!

20 years will make a lot of difference. If you say that 20 years won't make a lot of difference then you should probably also accept that a 12 year old Spartan III would easily best a 40 year old Spartan II as the Spartan IIIs had better training. Thel reached the rank of Supreme Commander, meaning he must have thousands of confirmed kills under his belt as we know that Elites are promoted based on their skill in combat and number of kills. John has also nearly been bested by Elites in hand-to-hand in the past, and those Elites were nowhere near as skilled as Thel.
My point was when Chief has over 30 years of experience, another 20 isn't going to change much! Thousands of kills, but none of which are Spartans, Chief however has killed thousands of Covenant, including many Sangheili! The Elite who was also almost able to best Chief was also said to be a meter taller than Chief which makes him over 11 feet tall! Judging by the way the fight was described it's likely this Elite was in-fact very skilled, otherwise Chief would not have struggled as much or at all.
Luke Del wrote:
Luke Del wrote:
You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.


True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.


Jai-006 would beg to differ.


I beg to differ...Jai handled the fight very well considering and left uninjured, unlike Thel who received a broken rib!


It was an even match, I wouldn't say that leaves a Spartan II "perfectly capable" of handling Thel as it could have gone either way. If Jai had been "perfectly capable" of dispatching Thel, he would have done during that confict.

Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.


Only in terms of skill, Chief still has plenty of training and 20 years won't change much, especially considering Chiefs reaction time in armour is roughly 4 milliseconds!


20 years will make a lot of difference. If you say that 20 years won't make a lot of difference then you should probably also accept that a 12 year old Spartan III would easily best a 40 year old Spartan II as the Spartan IIIs had better training. Thel reached the rank of Supreme Commander, meaning he must have thousands of confirmed kills under his belt as we know that Elites are promoted based on their skill in combat and number of kills. John has also nearly been bested by Elites in hand-to-hand in the past, and those Elites were nowhere near as skilled as Thel.

My point was when Chief has over 30 years of experience, another 20 isn't going to change much! Thousands of kills, but none of which are Spartans, Chief however has killed thousands of Covenant, including many Sangheili! The Elite who was also almost able to best Chief was also said to be a meter taller than Chief which makes him over 11 feet tall! Judging by the way the fight was described it's likely this Elite was in-fact very skilled, otherwise Chief would not have struggled as much or at all.
Another 20 years definitely would, Thel has been fighting literally since before Chief was born and has nearly twice as much experience as him. It doesn't really matter if he hasn't killed any Spartans, it doesn't change the fact that he's an excellent combatant. There were two Elites that almost bested Chief, one in The Fall of Reach, one in First Strike. Both of these Elites may have been good combatants (especially considering one was a spec-ops Elite), but both were of a significantly lower rank than Thel, meaning they'll be nowhere near as skilled as him. On top of that, Chief only survived an encounter with one of those Elites because he was saved by Johnson and Locklear. If Thel could wipe the floor with either of those Elites, I imagine he could definitely take on the Chief.
Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.

I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.
Yes but is he as quick with movement and reactions? That right there could decide the fight. I forgot if Elites are as quick as Spartans.
Luke Del wrote:
Luke Del wrote:
Luke Del wrote:
You're forgetting that Thel is wearing the Arbiters armour, which as far as we know is not power assisting unlike the average combat harness used by Elites. A base Elites strength is not equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir, they require their combat harness's in order to become equal in strength. Thel has also been floored by a Spartan before, Jai is not notable among the Spartans for great strength or speed so he might even be slightly weaker than John. Overall due to Chiefs speed he comes out on top.


Jai tackled him while he was not looking. I have played Rugby before and I can assure you it requires technique, not necessarily equal strength to tackle someone.
It is not a notable indicator of strength and even John 117 is said not to be the strongest, fastest, or most skillful spartans, but he has luck.


True, but my point is a Spartan II in Mjolnir is perfectly capable of taking on Thel.


Jai-006 would beg to differ.


I beg to differ...Jai handled the fight very well considering and left uninjured, unlike Thel who received a broken rib!


It was an even match, I wouldn't say that leaves a Spartan II "perfectly capable" of handling Thel as it could have gone either way. If Jai had been "perfectly capable" of dispatching Thel, he would have done during that confict.

Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.


Only in terms of skill, Chief still has plenty of training and 20 years won't change much, especially considering Chiefs reaction time in armour is roughly 4 milliseconds!


20 years will make a lot of difference. If you say that 20 years won't make a lot of difference then you should probably also accept that a 12 year old Spartan III would easily best a 40 year old Spartan II as the Spartan IIIs had better training. Thel reached the rank of Supreme Commander, meaning he must have thousands of confirmed kills under his belt as we know that Elites are promoted based on their skill in combat and number of kills. John has also nearly been bested by Elites in hand-to-hand in the past, and those Elites were nowhere near as skilled as Thel.


My point was when Chief has over 30 years of experience, another 20 isn't going to change much! Thousands of kills, but none of which are Spartans, Chief however has killed thousands of Covenant, including many Sangheili! The Elite who was also almost able to best Chief was also said to be a meter taller than Chief which makes him over 11 feet tall! Judging by the way the fight was described it's likely this Elite was in-fact very skilled, otherwise Chief would not have struggled as much or at all.


Another 20 years definitely would, Thel has been fighting literally since before Chief was born and has nearly twice as much experience as him. It doesn't really matter if he hasn't killed any Spartans, it doesn't change the fact that he's an excellent combatant. There were two Elites that almost bested Chief, one in The Fall of Reach, one in First Strike. Both of these Elites may have been good combatants (especially considering one was a spec-ops Elite), but both were of a significantly lower rank than Thel, meaning they'll be nowhere near as skilled as him. On top of that, Chief only survived an encounter with one of those Elites because he was saved by Johnson and Locklear. If Thel could wipe the floor with either of those Elites, I imagine he could definitely take on the Chief.
Not really, 30 years of experience is plenty enough. What chapter was the Elite from First Strike ? It's not impossible for the first Elite to be a high rank, we're only told what colour their armour was so it is in theory possible for them to be a very high rank!
Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.

Yes but is he as quick with movement and reactions? That right there could decide the fight. I forgot if Elites are as quick as Spartans.


Probably not as quick, but I'd definitely say more skilled. If Chief's reaction times were to be the deciding factor then he should have been able to kill Lodamee and the Elites that nearly bested him in TFoR and First Strike with ease. As we know, he didn't, as Lodamee nearly killed him and so did the other two Elites.

Not really, 30 years of experience is plenty enough.


30 years is a lot of experience in one field, but Thel has nearly twice as much as that. That's going to make a tremendous difference.

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What chapter was the Elite from First Strike?


Can't remember, it's been a while since I read it. Rereading it soon is on my to-do list though.

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It's not impossible for the first Elite to be a high rank, we're only told what colour their armour was so it is in theory possible for them to be a very high rank!
What colour was their armour described as? I can't remember. We can determine the Elite's rank from his armour and the context. They were in zero-G at the time so it's fair to assume a Ranger, which if you're going to compare to Thel, is like comparing a military engineer to a five-star General. I think I remember the Elite being a minor though...
Luke Del wrote:
Do you really think not one of those thousands to have been killed would have been a spartan? even low ranking elites like Ustaf 'Nbekee have killed a Spartan, you seriously doubt a shipmaster given that responsibility would of?


Yes. Only 5-6 Spartan IIs were killed before 2552, and Thel killed none of them. Thel also never participated in any battle that the Spartan IIIs took part in. So no, he has never killed a Spartan. How many Spartans did you think there were?

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Elites are somewhat stronger than Spatan-II's, not by much but still stronger. Again try playing in Heroic or Legendary against an elite and see who wins using only melee.

They are around just as strong actually. Gameplay =/= canon.

Not to mention, the 12 year old Beta Company Spartan IIIs annihalated hundreds, if not thousands of Elites in hand-to-hand combat during Operation Torpedo. Not to mention that these 12 year old Spartans weren't even equipped with Mjolnir, they wore SPI armour instead.
I've looked up Operation Torpedo and found no information on that, I did find that the spartans were dropped down to 200 by Jackal-Snipers, the rest of Beta company being slaughtered and the rest of the Spartans were slaughtered there suit, leaving only two left.
Also before what date of 2552, he could of killed Spartans in 2552 before he was stripped of his rank, or at least before october, as that year was when the war was at it's peak as far as I can remember.

Bungie called Heroic the "Reality" of Halo, and how difficult it would of actually been, unlike the comics.
Luke Del wrote:
Luke Del wrote:
They are both VERY seasoned. Chiefs reaction times in combat would give him an advantage while Thel is a slight bit stronger. Really it comes down to who has what weapons.

If we're talking hand to hand combat though, they'd probably kill each other. That, or one would slightly win but would have enough internal damage done that they'd die shortly after.


I'd probably be more inclined to say Thel would win in hand-to-hand combat. Sangheili training focuses heavily on close combat and hand-to-hand. Thel also has roughly 2 decades of experience more than Chief.


Yes but is he as quick with movement and reactions? That right there could decide the fight. I forgot if Elites are as quick as Spartans.


Probably not as quick, but I'd definitely say more skilled. If Chief's reaction times were to be the deciding factor then he should have been able to kill Lodamee and the Elites that nearly bested him in TFoR and First Strike with ease. As we know, he didn't, as Lodamee nearly killed him and so did the other two Elites.

Not really, 30 years of experience is plenty enough.


30 years is a lot of experience in one field, but Thel has nearly twice as much as that. That's going to make a tremendous difference.

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What chapter was the Elite from First Strike?


Can't remember, it's been a while since I read it. Rereading it soon is on my to-do list though.

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It's not impossible for the first Elite to be a high rank, we're only told what colour their armour was so it is in theory possible for them to be a very high rank!

What colour was their armour described as? I can't remember. We can determine the Elite's rank from his armour and the context. They were in zero-G at the time so it's fair to assume a Ranger, which if you're going to compare to Thel, is like comparing a military engineer to a five-star General. I think I remember the Elite being a minor though...
What more could Thel have experienced in those 20 years than Chief could experience in his 20. The answer is not much or anything, when it comes to periods as long as 30 and 50 years it doesn't matter who has more years, you're ultimately at peak experience.

Their armour is said to be blue but Minors aren't the only Elites to be described as blue armoured.
Luke Del wrote:
Do you really think not one of those thousands to have been killed would have been a spartan? even low ranking elites like Ustaf 'Nbekee have killed a Spartan, you seriously doubt a shipmaster given that responsibility would of?


Yes. Only 5-6 Spartan IIs were killed before 2552, and Thel killed none of them. Thel also never participated in any battle that the Spartan IIIs took part in. So no, he has never killed a Spartan. How many Spartans did you think there were?

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Elites are somewhat stronger than Spatan-II's, not by much but still stronger. Again try playing in Heroic or Legendary against an elite and see who wins using only melee.


They are around just as strong actually. Gameplay =/= canon.

Not to mention, the 12 year old Beta Company Spartan IIIs annihalated hundreds, if not thousands of Elites in hand-to-hand combat during Operation Torpedo. Not to mention that these 12 year old Spartans weren't even equipped with Mjolnir, they wore SPI armour instead.

I've looked up Operation Torpedo and found no information on that, I did find that the spartans were dropped down to 200 by Jackal-Snipers, the rest of Beta company being slaughtered and the rest of the Spartans were slaughtered there suit, leaving only two left.
Also before what date of 2552, he could of killed Spartans in 2552 before he was stripped of his rank, or at least before october, as that year was when the war was at it's peak as far as I can remember.

Bungie called Heroic the "Reality" of Halo, and how difficult it would of actually been, unlike the comics.


Read the book, it's in the prologue.

Before the Fall of Reach only 6 Spartan IIs were killed. Thel wasn't involved in the ground fighting during the battle for Reach. He hasn't killed a single Spartan II.

Bungie said that Heroic was the difficulty Halo was supposed to be played on. It's obviously not canon otherwise the Chief would be vaporised by several bolts from a banshee's plasma cannon, and a plasma rifle would be able to instantly kill grunts and jackals with a single bolt of plasma.

What more could Thel have experienced in those 20 years than Chief could experience in his 20. The answer is not much or anything, when it comes to periods as long as 30 and 50 years it doesn't matter who has more years, you're ultimately at peak experience.


Well that's not true, it's not about the different situations you might encounter, it's about honing your skills. Thel has had much longer, nearly twice the amount Chief has to do this. There's no such thing as "peak experience", you can always learn new things or master things you already know. There's not a single thing that someone can be absolutely perfect at in every aspect just because they've done it for 20 years.

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Their armour is said to be blue but Minors aren't the only Elites to be described as blue armoured.
What other ranks are said to have blue armour then? Minors (and Halo 2 Rangers) are the only Elites that wear blue armour...
They are equal prior to halo 4 in all respects but close quarters. He will draw that sword and likewise his blood. In 5 Storm rifle/needler is just as, if not deadlier than the ar and smg now shot for shot. But The Librarian's "gifts" could be lord knows what. That being said what has Thel been doing all this time as an ally? Getting crafty af probably... and that fancy new armor is still a mystery in shield strength and capability. We need more literature to know for sure after halo 4...
They are equal prior to halo 4 in all respects but close quarters. He will draw that sword and likewise his blood. In 5 Storm rifle/needler is just as, if not deadlier than the ar and smg now shot for shot. But The Librarian's "gifts" could be lord knows what. That being said what has Thel been doing all this time as an ally? Getting crafty af probably... and that fancy new armor is still a mystery in shield strength and capability. We need more literature to know for sure after halo 4...
This thread from 2014.
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