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Spikers, and why they defy all logic.

OP WortWortWarthog

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On how the spiker stores it's rounds, they probably come in ball form at first, then as they make their way down the barrel they are superheated into the spikes. As for the in game representation, it's just balancing, in the lore the plasma pistol rips through shields and melts armor, and if one shot from a carbine penetrates you then you're basically dead since the bullets are radioactive and gravity hammers could liquify people...enuff said.
A couple of notable showings of the Brute Spiker from Halo: Contact Harvest and Halo: Broken Circle.
Quote:
Hot metal spikes rattled from two rifles mounted above and behind its wheels, forcing Byrne and the three recruits behind the berm to duck and cover. The spikes split the uppermost row of sandbags and drilled into the tower’s polycrete wall. Some of the rounds splintered against the metal security door, scattering red-hot shrapnel onto the asphalt near Byrne’s boots.
Spiker rounds penetrating through sandbags and still containing enough energy to embed themselves into metal security doors.
Quote:
In a flash of angry wing-beats, one of the Yanme’e made a beeline for Tartarus, only to disappear in a yellow spray as a volley of red-hot spikes passed through its carapace and drilled into the starboard wall.
Pinning a Yanme'e into a wall.
Quote:
The deck around the Chieftain's spirit was littered with dead Yanme’e. It was difficult to tell how many. Tartarus’ spike rifle had reduced most of the creatures to limb fragments and oozing shells.
Spikers reduce Yanme'e into fragments and shells.
Quote:
One caught Jepsen in the neck, and he went down in a gurgling spray. Another struck Habel in the hip, shattering the bones. Byrne caught the second recruit as he fell, wrapped an arm across his chest and fired his battle rifle one-handed. The alien drilled two more spikes into Habel’s chest—one straight through Byrne’s bicep. The Staff Sergeant grunted, dropped his rifle, and staggered back to the data center’s door.
Spiker rounds shattering hip bones and in this particular case, pierces through a marine and into another.
Quote:
Other Elites managed only light damage with plasma rifles and needlers, while the Brutes double-bladed carbines fired spikes that breached the Sangheili's energy shielding and tore into exposed flesh.
...
Melchus was howling with glee and bloodlust, dispatching another Sangheili guard who'd fallen, wounded, under a barrage of spikes. The guard was splashed into nothingness by the Jiralhanae as the air resounded with shouts of pain and fury and the sizzling, cracking sounds of their weapons, the echoing thunder of war hammer.
Spikers piercing through Sangheili energy shielding, armour and tearing into their flesh.
A couple of notable showings of the Brute Spiker from Halo: Contact Harvest and Halo: Broken Circle.
Quote:
Hot metal spikes rattled from two rifles mounted above and behind its wheels, forcing Byrne and the three recruits behind the berm to duck and cover. The spikes split the uppermost row of sandbags and drilled into the tower’s polycrete wall. Some of the rounds splintered against the metal security door, scattering red-hot shrapnel onto the asphalt near Byrne’s boots.
Spiker rounds penetrating through sandbags and still containing enough energy to embed themselves into metal security doors.
Quote:
In a flash of angry wing-beats, one of the Yanme’e made a beeline for Tartarus, only to disappear in a yellow spray as a volley of red-hot spikes passed through its carapace and drilled into the starboard wall.
Pinning a Yanme'e into a wall.
Quote:
The deck around the Chieftain's spirit was littered with dead Yanme’e. It was difficult to tell how many. Tartarus’ spike rifle had reduced most of the creatures to limb fragments and oozing shells.
Spikers reduce Yanme'e into fragments and shells.
Quote:
One caught Jepsen in the neck, and he went down in a gurgling spray. Another struck Habel in the hip, shattering the bones. Byrne caught the second recruit as he fell, wrapped an arm across his chest and fired his battle rifle one-handed. The alien drilled two more spikes into Habel’s chest—one straight through Byrne’s bicep. The Staff Sergeant grunted, dropped his rifle, and staggered back to the data center’s door.
Spiker rounds shattering hip bones and in this particular case, pierces through a marine and into another.
Quote:
Other Elites managed only light damage with plasma rifles and needlers, while the Brutes double-bladed carbines fired spikes that breached the Sangheili's energy shielding and tore into exposed flesh.
...
Melchus was howling with glee and bloodlust, dispatching another Sangheili guard who'd fallen, wounded, under a barrage of spikes. The guard was splashed into nothingness by the Jiralhanae as the air resounded with shouts of pain and fury and the sizzling, cracking sounds of their weapons, the echoing thunder of war hammer.
Spikers piercing through Sangheili energy shielding, armour and tearing into their flesh.
Just goes to show how deadly Spikers can be. They aren't any "technologically unadvanced weapons," especially on their highest power output. They're honestly some the scariest infantry weapons we have seen. I'd take a regular bullet anyday.
A couple of notable showings of the Brute Spiker from Halo: Contact Harvest and Halo: Broken Circle.
Quote:
Hot metal spikes rattled from two rifles mounted above and behind its wheels, forcing Byrne and the three recruits behind the berm to duck and cover. The spikes split the uppermost row of sandbags and drilled into the tower’s polycrete wall. Some of the rounds splintered against the metal security door, scattering red-hot shrapnel onto the asphalt near Byrne’s boots.
Spiker rounds penetrating through sandbags and still containing enough energy to embed themselves into metal security doors.
Quote:
In a flash of angry wing-beats, one of the Yanme’e made a beeline for Tartarus, only to disappear in a yellow spray as a volley of red-hot spikes passed through its carapace and drilled into the starboard wall.
Pinning a Yanme'e into a wall.
Quote:
The deck around the Chieftain's spirit was littered with dead Yanme’e. It was difficult to tell how many. Tartarus’ spike rifle had reduced most of the creatures to limb fragments and oozing shells.
Spikers reduce Yanme'e into fragments and shells.
Quote:
One caught Jepsen in the neck, and he went down in a gurgling spray. Another struck Habel in the hip, shattering the bones. Byrne caught the second recruit as he fell, wrapped an arm across his chest and fired his battle rifle one-handed. The alien drilled two more spikes into Habel’s chest—one straight through Byrne’s bicep. The Staff Sergeant grunted, dropped his rifle, and staggered back to the data center’s door.
Spiker rounds shattering hip bones and in this particular case, pierces through a marine and into another.
Quote:
Other Elites managed only light damage with plasma rifles and needlers, while the Brutes double-bladed carbines fired spikes that breached the Sangheili's energy shielding and tore into exposed flesh.
...
Melchus was howling with glee and bloodlust, dispatching another Sangheili guard who'd fallen, wounded, under a barrage of spikes. The guard was splashed into nothingness by the Jiralhanae as the air resounded with shouts of pain and fury and the sizzling, cracking sounds of their weapons, the echoing thunder of war hammer.
Spikers piercing through Sangheili energy shielding, armour and tearing into their flesh.
Just goes to show how deadly Spikers can be. They aren't any "technologically unadvanced weapons," especially on their highest power output. They're honestly some the scariest infantry weapons we have seen. I'd take a regular bullet anyday.
I'd honestly like to see a more powerful (and correctly balanced) Spiker in Halo 5, as opposed to the Plasma Rifle yet another close-mid range low-damage Automatic weapon. I made a suggestion for a different functionality Spiker earlier in this thread.
Most guns would kill a person when shot at the head. I don't think realistic mechanics were in mind for many alien weapons designed in the Halo universe. I mean, how the hell do you explain the Needler?
As for the physics of your point, perhaps the momentum behind a single Spiker spike isn't enough to fully penetrate a Spartan helmet, even without the shield, and so several spikes need to hit to compromise the integrity of the helmet.
Chimera30 wrote:
Most guns would kill a person when shot at the head. I don't think realistic mechanics were in mind for many alien weapons designed in the Halo universe. I mean, how the hell do you explain the Needler?
As for the physics of your point, perhaps the momentum behind a single Spiker spike isn't enough to fully penetrate a Spartan helmet, even without the shield, and so several spikes need to hit to compromise the integrity of the helmet.
With regards to the Needler, the size and depiction of its ammo "cartridge" in CE implies that the reserve ammo is stored in the weapon itself, and then splinters into individual Needles upon "reloading."
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Gameplay isn't canon. That's why the halo landfall live action got it right and gameplay doesn't. If Spikers were as powerful in game as they are in canon it would be unbalanced
When I think of Landfall, I think of that ODST throwing a spike grenade...and sticking it on a Banshee..realism..
While the weapons in game are canon, the way they exactly function sometimes is not.
Chimera30 wrote:
Most guns would kill a person when shot at the head. I don't think realistic mechanics were in mind for many alien weapons designed in the Halo universe. I mean, how the hell do you explain the Needler?
As for the physics of your point, perhaps the momentum behind a single Spiker spike isn't enough to fully penetrate a Spartan helmet, even without the shield, and so several spikes need to hit to compromise the integrity of the helmet.
With regards to the Needler, the size and depiction of its ammo "cartridge" in CE implies that the reserve ammo is stored in the weapon itself, and then splinters into individual Needles upon "reloading."
I more question the homing ability of the needles and how they "supercombine".
I'm unsure if this has been brought up, I'm too lazy to read through everything, but I feel like this needs to be said. The guns in game are nerfed to how they would function in real life. Almost literally every game does this. If it didn't, then two stray MA5B shots would be enough to kill 1-3 marines, and a single plasma bolt would be way more than what would be needed to bypass shield-systems shown in game, and instantly kill anything under said shield. The armor would make no difference, either. Given the massive temperature that plasma is at, it would dissipate quickly, leaving a large area of superheated air around the impact-site. This would be enough to bypass shields and kill or severely injure anyone wearing anything less than a full environment-suit. Such a suit would still likely be breached at the sight of impact with the plasma the instant it hits. Don't even get me started on the fact that a single wraith mortar should be enough to clear out a massive area. So simply having a spiker that doesn't puncture as its shown to isn't that big of a problem.
For the damage of the spiker, mechanical portrayal of weapons isn't really canon. Just like you can survive multiple spiker rounds to the face, you can also survive multiple AR rounds to the face.
I can accept the fact MJOLNIR armor is still somewhat bullet-resistant without shields. But I cannot accept foot-long metal rod resistance.
Why not? They aren't being fired at that high of a velocity, are they? Even though you would think Spikers had to be some sort of railgun, I thought there were some pretty low numbers floating around somewhere?
Game mechanics =/= lore. This has always been the case.
S 000 DeM wrote:
For the damage of the spiker, mechanical portrayal of weapons isn't really canon. Just like you can survive multiple spiker rounds to the face, you can also survive multiple AR rounds to the face.
I can accept the fact MJOLNIR armor is still somewhat bullet-resistant without shields. But I cannot accept foot-long metal rod resistance.
Why not? They aren't being fired at that high of a velocity, are they? Even though you would think Spikers had to be some sort of railgun, I thought there were some pretty low numbers floating around somewhere?
Hmm. I think I'll load up Halo 3 soon and measure how quickly the Spiker's Projectiles move, as well as how fast that velocity decays.
I think it could be explained that the rounds have poor armour piercing and when they hit armour they squash instead of penetrating
DANIELG360 wrote:
I think it could be explained that the rounds have poor armour piercing and when they hit armour they squash instead of penetrating
Except, they do penetrate the Armor in game, even with Shields.
It's more of a game physics than the gun's lore itself. In Halo anyone can survive multiple rounds of specific weapons anywhere on their body, including the Marines. This is also evident in Matchmaking. Only precision like weapons can deal instant damage to the head. I believe it us just to give weapons some form of balance, even if it's non canon.
In Forward Unto Dawn and Halo: Landfall, the concepts of needlers and Spikers are what you would consider an accuracy. However the needle shards in Forward unto dawn didn't burst like they should, which would be instant death.
It's just Halo gameplay logic which is why I imagine it isn't a feature in game because by that logic any gun would be an instant one kill in the head and would throw all we have in balance off in Halo. Everyone would hate it sadly.
If this bothers you you must really hate Hall 3: ODST. How can ODST's take so many hits from Plasma and other covenant weapons since even one hit could be leathal? Of course it's for gameplay reasons but sometimes I think it really breaks the immersion when developers go too far. I don't think spiker does that.
Bit of a silly statement. Why would a relatively slow-velocity superheated metal rod deal more damage than a 7.62mm high velocity alloy-jacketed armor piercing round? If a suit of MJOLNIR can shrug off a quite large and powerful bullet specifically designed to pierce body armor by travelling at high speed, gaining momentum via a dense core and maintaining a sharp, rigid shape due to alloy coating, then why would it be unable to deflect a large spike?

In fact, the reason why the wounds caused by Spikers are so painful and devastating is because of their slow velocity. Rather than passing straight through like UNSC armor piercing ammunition, they just penetrate the surface, sit there, and burn away. Effective when a UNSC infantryman is hit in an area that isn't covered by his battle armor, but probably not ideal against armor itself.
Bring back the spikers!!!
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