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(Spoilers) John-117 is no longer blue leader

OP HipPainter007

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So there has been a bit of a stir that John-117 will be reunited with Kelly-087, Fred-104 and Linda-058, but as I recall Fred is the Highest Ranking SPARTAN-II in the UNSC and was made the new leader of Blue team, so if John is to be reunited he will not be known as blue leader unless he were to be promoted (which is very unlikely since Spartan's can no longer receive promotions) or if Fred was demoted
John-117 has been the leader of the Spartans since they were children. Every Spartan-II looks up to him and follows his lead. Fred would most likely relinquish command to him.
^
This. He is and now always will be the "De-Facto Leader".
Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
"No sir."

But yeah, he likely would. Though Kiki mentioned that they want to see John as a "leader of men", so maybe he'll be working his way up the ranks.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
"No, sir."
Admittedly, this line has always bothered me. But given the situation, I can understand why the Chief disobeyed orders in this case.

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But yeah, he likely would. Though Kiki mentioned that they want to see John as a "leader of men", so maybe he'll be working his way up the ranks.
I don't see 343 changing the Chief's rank, if only because "Master Chief" is more a name for John than "John", and is certainly more recognized by the fan-base.
Chief is both a great leader by nature, and by immense toil. He survived one of the least fortunate odds being stranded in space. Cryo tube or not John is one lucky hero, a very human one at that.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
"No, sir."
Admittedly, this line has always bothered me. But given the situation, I can understand why the Chief disobeyed orders in this case.

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But yeah, he likely would. Though Kiki mentioned that they want to see John as a "leader of men", so maybe he'll be working his way up the ranks.
I don't see 343 changing the Chief's rank, if only because "Master Chief" is more a name for John than "John", and is certainly more recognized by the fan-base.
I'm kinda torn with the "No, Sir" line. It seems out of character for John. But I think when Del Rio was ordering Chief to hand over Cortana so she could be destroyed, Chief could probably hear Johnson in the back of his mind saying "Don't ever let her go" ...

^ Corny? You're damn right it is. lol.
Theoretically all of Blue team has the rank Spartan now, so command may be given back to John.
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Theoretically all of Blue team has the rank Spartan now, so command may be given back to John.
I wonder how long the Spartans' silly (non)ranking system is going to last. The People's Liberation Army of China tried it and even they went back to ranks after a while because unless the UNSC's military and entire society undergoes a complete restructuring (something that would take decades, even centuries) I don't see how this sort of thing is going to work in the long run. (That and I can't be the only one who thinks it's kinda bizarre our hero faction is following the example of an entity called "People's Liberation Army".)

Hopefully they'll get Nylund or some other competent military science fiction author to pen a novel where they turn the Spartans into something sensible again.
I want Blue team to meet back up with Chief again, I really do. There are so many cool reasons why it should happen.

This however, is just about the only thing that makes me wonder if they should come back. The idea of Fred going back to second in command leaves me feeling kinda uneasy. He's accomplished so much and grown so much since he was given command.

He began as a silent achiever. He always could have been so much more but he wasn't willing to push himself or put himself in the spotlight. Since that time he has lead his brothers and sisters and he didn't just lead them to victory, he failed some of them too. He's made costly mistakes that lead the soldiers under him to their deaths and he has had to deal and come to terms with that.

Fred has had to look at himself and understand that it has to be him who leads the Spartans to victory. He's the guy that has to do it all whether or not he knows if he's the most qualified.

For a long time he looked to Chief as the leader but after Chief was gone he had to become the one that others could look to for leadership. The idea of John no longer being the leader had probably never crossed Fred's mind and one day it was just dropped on his lap and on top of that it was him that had to replace John.

Chief was a born leader, which is fine but Fred had to become a leader and we saw that progression and character growth. Don't get me wrong, John's great and he'd be a strong returning leader to Blue team but Fred has gone through so much and suffered so much to get where he is now. To just take that and put him back to where he was before and act like nothing happened feels like it'd be a middle finger to his character.

I could be wrong of course. There might be a good way to do it and I'm sure there'll be someone here who'll explain it too me and hopefully they'll convince me to change my mind but as it is in all honestly I think if it comes down to John or Fred I'm actually going to choose Fred. IMO he deserves it more and has worked for it harder, at least on a emotional level.

What does that mean for Chief's relationship with Blue team? I have absolutely no idea!
John has always been the De-Facto leader of the Spartan 2s. All Spartan 2s looked to him as their leader, even Fred. Fred having a higher rank doesn't change that.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
"No, sir."
Admittedly, this line has always bothered me. But given the situation, I can understand why the Chief disobeyed orders in this case.

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But yeah, he likely would. Though Kiki mentioned that they want to see John as a "leader of men", so maybe he'll be working his way up the ranks.
I don't see 343 changing the Chief's rank, if only because "Master Chief" is more a name for John than "John", and is certainly more recognized by the fan-base.
I'm kinda torn with the "No, Sir" line. It seems out of character for John. But I think when Del Rio was ordering Chief to hand over Cortana so she could be destroyed, Chief could probably hear Johnson in the back of his mind saying "Don't ever let her go" ...

^ Corny? You're damn right it is. lol.
The whole point of that line was to be out of character, to show that he was acting as an individual human rather than a puppet of the UNSC or his superiors. That's the point of his character development on Halo 4. It is quite a pivotal line.
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Theoretically, if they were to be reunited, then even if Fred outranks John, maybe his rank is Spartan now, he might give tactical command to John.
And even if he didn't, given what we know of John, he would likely respect that Fred now outranks him, and follow any orders Fred gave.
"No, sir."
Admittedly, this line has always bothered me. But given the situation, I can understand why the Chief disobeyed orders in this case.

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But yeah, he likely would. Though Kiki mentioned that they want to see John as a "leader of men", so maybe he'll be working his way up the ranks.
I don't see 343 changing the Chief's rank, if only because "Master Chief" is more a name for John than "John", and is certainly more recognized by the fan-base.
I'm kinda torn with the "No, Sir" line. It seems out of character for John. But I think when Del Rio was ordering Chief to hand over Cortana so she could be destroyed, Chief could probably hear Johnson in the back of his mind saying "Don't ever let her go" ...

^ Corny? You're damn right it is. lol.
It might be a little corny, but I really like it. That scene is one of my favorite scenes in all of the Halo media. It's the first big step for John becoming his own character rather than a faceless "machine".
Temporary link established.
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Theoretically all of Blue team has the rank Spartan now, so command may be given back to John.
Correction: Current [frumentarii] records indicate [exploratores] designated "Blue Team" (ref: SPARTAN-II; ref: [ref: Halo Encyclopedia, p. 112) remain under NAVSPECWARCOM [ADCON]. Multiple [bureaucratic tactical] vectors by [frumentarii] to acquire full command authority.
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Temporary link established.
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Theoretically all of Blue team has the rank Spartan now, so command may be given back to John.
Correction: Current [frumentarii] records indicate [exploratores] designated "Blue Team" (ref: SPARTAN-II; ref: [ref: Halo Encyclopedia, p. 112) remain under NAVSPECWARCOM [ADCON]. Multiple [bureaucratic tactical] vectors by [frumentarii] to acquire full command authority.
Ohhh yessss!
-Yoink- that damn spartan branch!
Blue team are some of the good guys left in the galaxy and at least they aren't under some incompetent idiots.

At this point I'd ask Catalog, can you confirm that NAVSPECWARCOM is still under ONI Section 3 command/influence/control?
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At this point I'd ask Catalog, can you confirm that NAVSPECWARCOM is still under ONI Section 3 command/influence/control?
Naval Special Warfare is a major command of the Navy and Marine Corps rather than a component of Naval Intelligence. ONI's Section Three in itself is a covert intelligence and research organization capable of many of the same functions, however.
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At this point I'd ask Catalog, can you confirm that NAVSPECWARCOM is still under ONI Section 3 command/influence/control?
Naval Special Warfare is a major command of the Navy and Marine Corps rather than a component of Naval Intelligence. ONI's Section Three in itself is a covert intelligence and research organization capable of many of the same functions, however.
What interests me is that Blue team are spies of some sort. Does this mean anything?
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What interests me is that Blue team are spies of some sort. Does this mean anything?
What you're referring to is human intelligence (HUMINT) gathering, a role that many special operations units fulfill. I'm under the impression, however, that Blue Team as a whole was implemented more in the direct action role rather than more covert actions. HUMINT assignments would very unlike require the allocation of four Spartans given a single one's capabilities.
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