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The Didact's Speech- Catalog Confirms 100%

OP ran and shai

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What I was attempting to say (and failing to do so lol):

The Librarian had a turning point when the Forerunners realized that humans were not harbingers of imperialism on a galactic scale, but instead were attempting to eradicate the Flood as it spread/before it spread further. It was then that she realized that Humanity were actually doing a better job at upholding the Mantle than the Forerunners.
Maybe we are thinking about this in the wrong way. I have trouble rationalizing this speech to occur at times very close to the Halo firing (which is the specific time frame most are arguing for or against compared to post-Halo 4), but maybe the speech was set further in the past - prior to the Ecumene Council being destroyed, prior to the Flood absolutely stomping the Forerunners around the galaxy.

I'd like Catalog to explain the exact time & location of this speech, because I'm starting to think that it occurred when the Ecumene Council sentenced the Ur-Didact to his exile in the Cryptum.

In this hour of victory, we taste only defeat. I ask: why?
We are forerunners, guardians of all that exists. The roots of the galaxy have grown deep under our careful tending, were there is life the wisdom of our countless generations has saturated the soil, our strength is a luminous sun towards which all intelligence blossoms, and the impervious shelter, beneath which it has prospered.
I stand before you, accused of the sin of ensuring forerunner ascendancy, of attempting to save us from this fate where we are forced to...recede.


Take this in context immediately following the Human-Forerunner war, when the political fights were going on between Warrior-Servants and Builders.

It was revealed to the Forerunners that humanity had been fighting on two fronts - against the Flood. The Forerunners thus engaged in a lengthy debate how to counter a possible re-emerging Flood threat. The Ur-Didact wanted to store Humanity's memories period (similar to Forthenco's was). However, de-evolved human populations were permitted mostly because they were perceived to have found a biological 'cure' against the Flood, and thus live human populations were needed to study this.
Around the same time, the Lifeworkers (especially the Librarian), began to come to the conclusion that Humanity was expanding throughout the galaxy and acting as caretakers - upholding the Mantle.

Additionally, the Ur-Didact and the warrior rate lost a huge political battle in endorsing a Shield-world based strategy to combat the Flood; the Builders, with their massive Halo projects, usurped power, and most warrior-servants ended up builder-security. His plan abandoned and he was forced into exile (Cryptum).

Rather than supporting an offensive plan, to eliminate a biological human presence (who in the Ur-Didact's eyes were contesting the Mantle and thus Forerunner ascendancy) and to effectively contain the Flood (Shield World strategy), the Builders won, creating the galaxy-wide equivalent nuclear option (the Halos), and human populations continued to exist and be supported, though de-evolved. I believe the original Halo plans were intended to be used for tactical pulses only, but they still understood that it killed all organic life - which is surely something that the Ur-Didact believed to run against the Mantle and against Forerunner ascendancy to the Mantle.

Humanity stands as the greatest threat in the galaxy. Refusing to eradicate them is a fool's gambit. We squander eons in the darkness, while they seize our triumphs for their own. The Mantle of Responsibility, for all things, belongs to Forerunners alone.

Similar themes to what I posited above. Rather than having all human's personalities/memories archived, humans survived. Ur-Didact is now sentenced to exile in a Cryptum, and his plans disbanded. The second line could be referring to the Ur-Didact's perception that Humanity had attempted to seize the Forerunner's triumphs (upholding the Mantle; supremacy) for their own, and the darkness was the prolonged Human-Forerunner war, and the ensuing fallout (both logistical from losses of colonies, people, resources; and political, from the upcoming waste of time that he perceives the Builder plans to be). Thus, present tense, because he views the actions the Forerunners are taking against the Flood to be incorrect and against their ability to uphold the Mantle that was just contested by Humanity.

Think of my acts as you will, but do not doubt the reality: the reclamation has already begun, and we are hopeless to stop it.

This quote, stated post-Halo 4, only makes sense if the reclamation is occurring by Humanity.
Possible ways it can be interpreted, if stated immediately after Human-Forerunner wars, but prior to the Ur-Didact's Cryptum?
Forerunners trying to reclaim the Mantle after it was contested by Humanity? - meh, because "hopeless to stop it" really doesn't fit in this syntax.
Humanity - doesn't fit at all following the Forerunner victory against humans.
But what about the Precursors/Flood? For the Ur-Didact to even imply that the Flood would soon contest the Forerunners by reclamation, he would have to know that THEY were actually the Precursors. Indeed, the Ur-Didact met the Primordial at the end of the Human-Forerunner war, and it took thousands of years following the end of the war for him to finally be ruled against.

So this last sentence, in combination with the above, is a really bitter narrative by the Ur-Didact - someone who won a massive war against Humanity, only to realize they would face an even bigger threat (the Flood); whose plans to uphold the Mantle and guarantee Forerunner ascendancy was being ignored and cast away for plans that went against the Mantle, and would further not be adequate to protect against the Flood, who only he understands - the Flood are reclaiming their place of dominance in the galaxy, and the Forerunners, led by the ignorant Builder rate, are hopeless to stop it.

Thoughts on this?

Lastly, please don't chastise me for blindly trying to fit the narrative to what I want. Prior to Catalog's statement, I had assumed that Didact's speech at the end of Halo 4 was actually set within the Halo universe post Halo 4.
I'm merely trying to think a little differently now and play devil's advocate in the hopes that we might find a new way to re-interpret the Ur-Didact speech, or Catalog's statements, or both.
Quote:
Think of my acts as you will, but do not doubt the reality: the reclamation has already begun, and we are hopeless to stop it.

This quote, stated post-Halo 4, only makes sense if the reclamation is occurring by Humanity.
Possible ways it can be interpreted, if stated immediately after Human-Forerunner wars, but prior to the Ur-Didact's Cryptum?
Forerunners trying to reclaim the Mantle after it was contested by Humanity? - meh, because "hopeless to stop it" really doesn't fit in this syntax.
Humanity - doesn't fit at all following the Forerunner victory against humans.
But what about the Precursors/Flood? For the Ur-Didact to even imply that the Flood would soon contest the Forerunners by reclamation, he would have to know that THEY were actually the Precursors. Indeed, the Ur-Didact met the Primordial at the end of the Human-Forerunner war, and it took thousands of years following the end of the war for him to finally be ruled against.

So this last sentence, in combination with the above, is a really bitter narrative by the Ur-Didact - someone who won a massive war against Humanity, only to realize they would face an even bigger threat (the Flood); whose plans to uphold the Mantle and guarantee Forerunner ascendancy was being ignored and cast away for plans that went against the Mantle, and would further not be adequate to protect against the Flood, who only he understands - the Flood are reclaiming their place of dominance in the galaxy, and the Forerunners, led by the ignorant Builder rate, are hopeless to stop it.

Thoughts on this?
Humanity was meant to be true heirs of the Mantle, as dictated by the Precursors, until the Forerunners rose up and seized it for themselves. The "reclamation" that is the core theme of Halo is humanity's destined eventuality of attaining it, once the right pieces of the puzzle are set in motion. Ur-Didact believes that only the Forerunners can live up to this monumental task, and he views humanity as a lesser species.
[keepalive]
Quote:
Hopefully, if Catalog made a mistake, he'll come here and address it. I see how the speech can work in the future and in the past, though both are stretches (to varying degrees). It would be nice to settle this matter once and for all.
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
I'd love to see the drawn out explanation.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Quote:
Hopefully, if Catalog made a mistake, he'll come here and address it. I see how the speech can work in the future and in the past, though both are stretches (to varying degrees). It would be nice to settle this matter once and for all.
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Further down the rabbit hole we go....
Quote:
[keepalive]
Has Catalog added this bracket to any of its other posts before 8th July? Catalog added the same bracket to a different reply in a different thread. Relevant? Perhaps it is encouraging us to continue discussion on this subject?

Quote:
[keepalive]
The same bracket can be found on this thread, also posted on 8th July.
Quote:
Quote:
[keepalive]
Has Catalog added this bracket to any of its other posts before 8th July? Catalog added the same bracket to a different reply in a different thread. Relevant? Perhaps it is encouraging us to continue discussion on this subject?

Quote:
[keepalive]
The same bracket can be found on this thread, also posted on 8th July.
Keepalive
Quote:
Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Multiple.... hmmmm.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Quote:
Hopefully, if Catalog made a mistake, he'll come here and address it. I see how the speech can work in the future and in the past, though both are stretches (to varying degrees). It would be nice to settle this matter once and for all.
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
ALL HAIL CATALOG.
Quote:
Quote:
Think of my acts as you will, but do not doubt the reality: the reclamation has already begun, and we are hopeless to stop it.

This quote, stated post-Halo 4, only makes sense if the reclamation is occurring by Humanity.
Possible ways it can be interpreted, if stated immediately after Human-Forerunner wars, but prior to the Ur-Didact's Cryptum?
Forerunners trying to reclaim the Mantle after it was contested by Humanity? - meh, because "hopeless to stop it" really doesn't fit in this syntax.
Humanity - doesn't fit at all following the Forerunner victory against humans.
But what about the Precursors/Flood? For the Ur-Didact to even imply that the Flood would soon contest the Forerunners by reclamation, he would have to know that THEY were actually the Precursors. Indeed, the Ur-Didact met the Primordial at the end of the Human-Forerunner war, and it took thousands of years following the end of the war for him to finally be ruled against.

So this last sentence, in combination with the above, is a really bitter narrative by the Ur-Didact - someone who won a massive war against Humanity, only to realize they would face an even bigger threat (the Flood); whose plans to uphold the Mantle and guarantee Forerunner ascendancy was being ignored and cast away for plans that went against the Mantle, and would further not be adequate to protect against the Flood, who only he understands - the Flood are reclaiming their place of dominance in the galaxy, and the Forerunners, led by the ignorant Builder rate, are hopeless to stop it.

Thoughts on this?
Humanity was meant to be true heirs of the Mantle, as dictated by the Precursors, until the Forerunners rose up and seized it for themselves. The "reclamation" that is the core theme of Halo is humanity's destined eventuality of attaining it, once the right pieces of the puzzle are set in motion. Ur-Didact believes that only the Forerunners can live up to this monumental task, and he views humanity as a lesser species.
I agree. I didn't think I was implying otherwise. The point was that reclamation may be viewed far differently by Forerunners than us as a human audience in a human-centric fictional universe that cannonically defines humans as the reclaimers.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Quote:
Hopefully, if Catalog made a mistake, he'll come here and address it. I see how the speech can work in the future and in the past, though both are stretches (to varying degrees). It would be nice to settle this matter once and for all.
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Alright... it's good to know that the confusion surrounding the speech has been noted.

Hopefully this review helps clear up the speech in detail.
So... was I right?
Quote:
So... was I right?
21:17-[searching...]

21:21-[...found]

Quote:
It is what it is. Refusal to believe is futile I think.

A lot of people thought it was pre, then post I think.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Catalog did not make a mistake, here.
Quote:
Quote:
So... was I right?
21:17-[searching...]

21:21-[...found]

Quote:
It is what it is. Refusal to believe is futile I think.

A lot of people thought it was pre, then post I think.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Catalog did not make a mistake, here.
But it has noted that something is off and is having it reviewed my multiple "authorities", either to revise it or offer a detailed and clear explanation that fits with what we've learned in the Forerunner Trilogy.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So... was I right?
21:17-[searching...]

21:21-[...found]

Quote:
It is what it is. Refusal to believe is futile I think.

A lot of people thought it was pre, then post I think.
Quote:
[keepalive]
Query Answer:
Searching ...
Statement was not in error. However, Catalog does note difficulty in interpreting Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's commentary. Currently under review due to multiple sources of authority.
Catalog did not make a mistake, here.
But it has noted that something is off and is having it reviewed my multiple "authorities", either to revise it or offer a detailed and clear explanation that fits with what we've learned in the Forerunner Trilogy.
True. Something needs to be extrapolated. The question is... which part?
Can I just say that Catalog is the coolest thing ever?

Not only are we getting our questions answered, we're getting troublesome things explained.

Also, it seems my cobbled together theory was buried in the ensuing debate. Here it is again:

Quote:
Halo is a complex universe, especially when dealing with Forerunner and Precursor tech. I think it is apt to think complexly.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Catalog is lying, I'm thinking more terms in 343i's plan for Halo's story. I asked Chris Schlerf on Twitter if he could confirm the Didact survived Halo 4, and (to my dismay) he heavily hinted to him being dead.

It's entirely possible for what I'm saying to be true. Look at Halo 4's Terminals. Those events aren't true (mostly). They're twisted out of shape by the Domain and don't even fit in chronological order (even within just one terminal entry) all to fit a theme.

Then in Cryptum, we have the Domain reaching forward down Living Time and taking a quote said by George Santayana close to 100,000 years in the future. If the Domain can do that just to fit the context of situation to create a thematically concise narrative, why can't it do that with the Didact's speech at the end of Halo 4? Especially since, I'll repeat myself, those of us who try to explain the speech have shown that a large portion of it is thematically correct in the past.
Quote:
Can I just say that Catalog is the coolest thing ever?

Not only are we getting our questions answered, we're getting troublesome things explained.

Also, it seems my cobbled together theory was buried in the ensuing debate. Here it is again:

Quote:
Halo is a complex universe, especially when dealing with Forerunner and Precursor tech. I think it is apt to think complexly.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Catalog is lying, I'm thinking more terms in 343i's plan for Halo's story. I asked Chris Schlerf on Twitter if he could confirm the Didact survived Halo 4, and (to my dismay) he heavily hinted to him being dead.

It's entirely possible for what I'm saying to be true. Look at Halo 4's Terminals. Those events aren't true (mostly). They're twisted out of shape by the Domain and don't even fit in chronological order (even within just one terminal entry) all to fit a theme.

Then in Cryptum, we have the Domain reaching forward down Living Time and taking a quote said by George Santayana close to 100,000 years in the future. If the Domain can do that just to fit the context of situation to create a thematically concise narrative, why can't it do that with the Didact's speech at the end of Halo 4? Especially since, I'll repeat myself, those of us who try to explain the speech have shown that a large portion of it is thematically correct in the past.
What specifically did you ask him? If I may ask - did you specify which Didact and/or did he refer to a specific Didact in his response?
Obviously you are referring to the Ur-Didact, but if the question and/or answer had any ambiguity to it, perhaps they could be sneakily referring to the Bornstellar Didact, who is certainly dead after a hundred thousand years (unless he entrapped himself in a cryptum as well!)
Come on... No way can he be dead. I am hoping they are just trying to throw us off. He's such a good character to just waste on one game.
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