Forums / Community / Halo Universe

[Locked] The Systematic Erasure of Blue Team...

OP GreenleafCM

10/17/2014

VINNIENATOR15

Marine - Bronze

WashedMoon67526 wrote:
Quote:
But yeah, mostly I am referring to the core group of Blue Team and how they've been continuously tossed aside as a non-factor to John-117's character, when the exact opposite is the truth as we've seen in canon via the EU for the last 10 years. I just don't understand what 343 is trying to do. They say they're "incredibly fond of these characters", but then they do things that communicate the exact opposite.

Their reunion with John in Escalation was not done well.

I agree, you would think they would at least be a little emotional that they just found a friend (basically brother) who they thought was dead. Instead, there was nothing.

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10/17/2014

VINNIENATOR15

Marine - Bronze

Blue team is sooooooo good

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10/17/2014

Catalog

343 Industries

GreenleafCM wrote:
a basic biography about the Chief and his exploits

Query Answer: Answer was encrypted in initial query.

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OP 10/17/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

Quote:
GreenleafCM wrote:
a basic biography about the Chief and his exploits

Query Answer: Answer was encrypted in initial query.

Okay, whoever you are from 343i...since you've decided to involve yourself in this discussion, I would have you clarify something:

How is it in any way prudent to not include one single mention of John-117's teammates and closest friends in a biography that, while brief, still includes two very specific events (Col. Watts' capture & the Covenant attack over Chi Ceti) where their involvement was a key factor?

Because unless you have an incredibly good answer to the above question, your initial reply just validated every single one of my criticisms and concerns.

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10/17/2014

Nihilus Shadow

ODST - Onyx

I don't understand what's going on here. Under 343i we have seen Blue Team not only referenced, but they've already appeared in media. An easter egg featuring Linda-058 was added to Halo: CEA, she appeared in the scanned trailer promoting Halo 4, Blue Team is rescued in Glasslands and they're mentioned throughout Halo 4 by Spartan personnel, they appear reunited with the Master Chief in Halo: Escalations and Fred-104's armor has been shown in the Halo 5: Guardians Multiplayer Beta trailer. We have heard more about Blue Team from 343i than we ever did from Bungie. So because they didn't mention them by name in the Chief's bio they're suddenly being erased by 343i?

I'm sorry but that's just silly.

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OP 10/17/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

I just realized I haven't included pictures of what we've been talking about here.

So, for anyone just coming into this thread, the object of our discussion is this "encyclopedia" entry about the Master Chief that is set to be featured as a part Halo Waypoint's new Universe section - which cuts out about 99% of his career and the characters that have been involved with him: [image 1], [image 2]

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10/17/2014

Nihilus Shadow

ODST - Onyx

It's still silly. The bio is about Chief, not Blue Team. Those pages don't mention Doctor Halsey, Chief Medez, Jacob Keyes, Miranda Keyes, Sergeant Johnson, or the Arbiter either. It's only a basic rundown of his character and not including those people doesn't mean they're being neglected or forgotten. Their information will be presented in their own bios I'm sure.

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OP 10/18/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
I don't understand what's going on here. Under 343i we have seen Blue Team not only referenced, but they've already appeared in media. An easter egg featuring Linda-058 was added to Halo: CEA, she appeared in the scanned trailer promoting Halo 4, Blue Team is rescued in Glasslands and they're mentioned throughout Halo 4 by Spartan personnel, they appear reunited with the Master Chief in Halo: Escalations and Fred-104's armor has been shown in the Halo 5: Guardians Multiplayer Beta trailer. We have heard more about Blue Team from 343i than we ever did from Bungie. So because they didn't mention them by name in the Chief's bio they're suddenly being erased by 343i?

I'm sorry but that's just silly.

So we've gotten a handful of cameos/easter-eggs, and 3 short issues of a sloppy comic where they're treated as little more than scenery, all of which will only be seen by hard-core fans who already know who they are...that's doesn't amount to anything better than Bungie ever did. As I mentioned before, at least in the books Bungie released they're treated like actual characters and their relationship with the Chief is given proper weight.

No one here has been able to present me with a solid reason to be at all confident that 343i has any "plans" for Blue Team beyond a few more phoned-in appearances that amount to nothing - just with everything about them they've released thus far. And with this most recent failure to include them in this article when they would actually be very relevant to the information presented, how am I not supposed to be pessimistic? The entry may be about the Chief, but as it's being billed as an "encyclopedia" article it should be helping people become more informed about the Chief's history and character, not less. Yet that is exactly what the article does, and it only further perpetuates the separation of the games and the EU that Bungie started and that has since evolved into a big problem for the Halo fanbase. By deliberately omitting Blue Team from this piece that refrences two specific events where thier teamwork was a major factor of what happened, 343i is indeed erasing them from the story.

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10/18/2014

Nihilus Shadow

ODST - Onyx

GreenleafCM wrote:
So we've gotten a handful of cameos/easter-eggs, and 3 short issues of a sloppy comic where they're treated as little more than scenery, all of which will only be seen by hard-core fans who already know who they are...that's doesn't amount to anything better than Bungie ever did.

Really? What did Bungie ever do with Blue Team? The only thing I can think of are the radio transmissions in Halo Reach, which doesn't really count because it was a prequel and all it really did was show the scenes of Spartans being killed in action. As far as Bungie was concerned the Master Chief was the last surviving Spartan during the events of the trilogy, despite the fact the expanded universe said otherwise. Blue Team was then conveniently brushed under the rug in Ghosts of Onyx and the instruction manual for Halo 3 even says he's the last of the remaining Spartans.

GreenleafCM wrote:
As I mentioned before, at least in the books Bungie released they're treated like actual characters and their relationship with the Chief is given proper weight.

Oh please, you make it sound like Blue Team was killed off screen and found by Chief in a comic book. I'm sorry the story didn't blow your mind, but the point of your argument is that 343i is erasing them from Halo and their appearance in that story, alive and well, contradicts that argument. Whether or not the stories were good is subjective and in no way proves that 343i is erasing these characters when they're clearly not as they are currently appearing in things.

GreenleafCM wrote:
No one here has been able to present me with a solid reason to be at all confident that 343i has any "plans" for Blue Team beyond a few more phoned-in appearances that amount to nothing - just with everything about them they've released thus far.

Well seeing as you're a pessimist then by definition you're always going to assume the worst possible outcome so it's only natural that no one is going to change your mind because your mind is made up.

GreenleafCM wrote:
The entry may be about the Chief, but as it's being billed as an "encyclopedia" article it should be helping people become more informed about the Chief's history and character, not less.

The article about the Chief is just one article, it doesn't need to be 50 pages of back story. Do you honestly believe that a casual gamer who never really cared to begin with is going to sit down and read a huge article about the character? Probably not and the hardcore fans who would read the article would most likely already known that stuff anyway so what the hell is the point in complaining about omissions?

You have to take the other articles into consideration anyway. It's not like there is one article and they're dumb for leaving out information. If someone navigated themselves to the encyclopedia they would be intelligent enough to see there are other character bios to read besides the Chief. That's why I pointed out people other than Blue Team not being mentioned in your complaint. Johnson, Halsey, the Keyes, the Arbiter, etc. They would have their own bios explaining their importance to the story and they don't need to be included in every single article. The articles would be repeating the same information over and over again if that was the case.

GreenleafCM wrote:
By deliberately omitting Blue Team from this piece that refrences two specific events where thier teamwork was a major factor of what happened, 343i is indeed erasing them from the story.

And when Fred, Kelly and Linda each get their own pieces of bio in the online encyclopedia, what will it mean then? Will it mean that you over reacted for absolutely nothing? I think it will. I've said before on here that this community is starting to sound like spoiled rotten children and I stand by that observation. Everyone demanded to see Blue Team and when they did, all they could say was "that story sucked" and drew conclusions that those characters are somehow being phased out of existence even though they have been shown in numerous pieces of media in recent years. So many people are half glass empty that sometimes I don't even know why I bother anymore. Your mind is made up and complaint after complaint is apparently your only solution.

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OP 10/18/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Really? What did Bungie ever do with Blue Team? The only thing I can think of are the radio transmissions in Halo Reach, which doesn't really count because it was a prequel and all it really did was show the scenes of Spartans being killed in action. As far as Bungie was concerned the Master Chief was the last surviving Spartan during the events of the trilogy, despite the fact the expanded universe said otherwise. Blue Team was then conveniently brushed under the rug in Ghosts of Onyx and the instruction manual for Halo 3 even says he's the last of the remaining Spartans.

I never said Bungie did Blue Team any favors, but 343i isn't doing any better in that regard either. They're brushing Blue Team under the rug in exactly the same way Bungie did - this recent article is proof of that. They're just doing it with comic books instead of whole novels; and frankly I'd much prefer to at least have a full novel.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Oh please, you make it sound like Blue Team was killed off screen and found by Chief in a comic book. I'm sorry the story didn't blow your mind, but the point of your argument is that 343i is erasing them from Halo and their appearance in that story, alive and well, contradicts that argument. Whether or not the stories were good is subjective and in no way proves that 343i is erasing these characters when they're clearly not as they are currently appearing in things.

As I said, a few (poorly executed) cameos being thrown out into pieces of media that are all but unknown to the fanbase at large in order to attempt to appease only hard-core fans is not what I would call an actual attempt to better incorporate them into the story. They were just deliberately left out of a biography where at least mentioning them would've been incredibly relevant - but instead people who read it will still continue to believe that the Chief is the only Spartan. And with 'Halo 5' coming up and absolutely zero foundation being laid to introduce them to the fandom as a whole like what's being done with the Arbiter and Locke, I highly doubt Blue Team will be around for much longer.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Well seeing as you're a pessimist then by definition you're always going to assume the worst possible outcome so it's only natural that no one is going to change your mind because your mind is made up.

I wouldn't be a pessimist if I had some piece of solid evidence that gave me reason not to be. However, the way 343i has treated Blue Team thus far is what has lead me to come to the conclusions I have. I would certainly change my mind if I had a good logical reason to, but I don't, and no one here has been able to provide one either.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
The article about the Chief is just one article, it doesn't need to be 50 pages of back story. Do you honestly believe that a casual gamer who never really cared to begin with is going to sit down and read a huge article about the character? Probably not and the hardcore fans who would read the article would most likely already known that stuff anyway so what the hell is the point in complaining about omissions?

So if the casual gamers care so little and apparently don't need to be informed about Halo canon, why bother to have the article at all? The point of such a thing should be to educate people, and for longtime lore fans at least acknowledge some of their investments in the story - this biography for the Chief does neither of those things. Therefore as it stands it is completely useless to everyone.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
You have to take the other articles into consideration anyway. It's not like there is one article and they're dumb for leaving out information. If someone navigated themselves to the encyclopedia they would be intelligent enough to see there are other character bios to read besides the Chief. That's why I pointed out people other than Blue Team not being mentioned in your complaint. Johnson, Halsey, the Keyes, the Arbiter, etc. They would have their own bios explaining their importance to the story and they don't need to be included in every single article. The articles would be repeating the same information over and over again if that was the case.

I think it would certainly help to try and tie articles together with bits of relevant information though - that's not repeating the same thing over and over. Also Johnson, Halsey, Keyes, and the Arbiter already had content about them on the old version of Waypoint, so it's 100% guaranteed that they'll have something on the new version. Not to mention they've all been in the games at some point; Blue Team has not, and therefore they are at a distinct disadvantage right off the bat.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
And when Fred, Kelly and Linda each get their own pieces of bio in the online encyclopedia, what will it mean then? Will it mean that you over reacted for absolutely nothing? I think it will. I've said before on here that this community is starting to sound like spoiled rotten children and I stand by that observation. Everyone demanded to see Blue Team and when they did, all they could say was "that story sucked" and drew conclusions that those characters are somehow being phased out of existence even though they have been shown in numerous pieces of media in recent years. So many people are half glass empty that sometimes I don't even know why I bother anymore. Your mind is made up and complaint after complaint is apparently your only solution.

It won't mean anything - because it's highly likely they won't get biographies. There's not even an official image of any of them to use for such a thing. There was nothing about them on Waypoint before, and with this article not even trying to tie them into the Chief's history, I have very good reason to believe there won't be in the future. What proof do you have that they'll suddenly get included?...Yes, everyone demanded to see Blue Team; and when we finally did, it was executed horribly. That is a legitimate criticism. Any honest lore fan cannot possibly say their inclusion in 'Escalation' did them any justice. 343i has the resources to do so much better and they're not - how is calling them out on that being "spoiled"? Complaining is the only thing that will possibly get our voices heard. What other solution would you suggest?

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10/18/2014

Nihilus Shadow

ODST - Onyx

GreenleafCM wrote:
I never said Bungie did Blue Team any favors, but 343i isn't doing any better in that regard either. They're brushing Blue Team under the rug in exactly the same way Bungie did - this recent article is proof of that. They're just doing it with comic books instead of whole novels; and frankly I'd much prefer to at least have a full novel.

Isn't doing any better? Since 343i has taken over, Blue Team has appeared and been referenced in...

Halo Legends
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn
Halo 4: Scanned Trailer
Halo Glasslands
Halo 4
Halo Escalation
Halo 5: Guardians

And Bungie had them in... Not a lot at all. Like I said already, Bungie had novels but they rarely referenced those novels and all promotional material for their games said the Chief was the last surviving Spartan because that's how they wanted it. 343i has done 1000x more with Blue Team than Bungie ever did.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the quality of those pieces, because whether or not the stories are good is irrelevant. The point is Blue Team is appearing in stuff, despite your claim they're being forgotten and erased.

GreenleafCM wrote:
It won't mean anything - because it's highly likely they won't get biographies. There's not even an official image of any of them to use for such a thing.

Do you even know how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works? The IGN video demonstrates that you can be watching a video, like Foward Unto Dawn or Nightfall and at anytime you can pause the video and bring up information such as scene description, character bios, locations, weapons, vehicles, etc. Example...

Menu
This menu is opened while watching Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn. You can see it shows a description of the scene, includes the characters who are in that scene, as well as the location the scene takes place in. You can click on those links to bring up the information about them.

Character Bio
Here they clicked on the Chief and brought up his bio. The image used for his bio is of him as he appeared in the movie the person is currently watching.

Now if this is how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works, then what do you think would happen when you opened it during the scenes that included Kelly-087 and Fred-104? It would probably include their bio and the image used would be how they appeared in that film, just like the Chief above.

Official images of Fred and Kelly.

GreenleafCM wrote:
Yes, everyone demanded to see Blue Team; and when we finally did, it was executed horribly. That is a legitimate criticism. Any honest lore fan cannot possibly say their inclusion in 'Escalation' did them any justice. 343i has the resources to do so much better and they're not

Which is subjective since not everyone is going to think those stories are bad. You wanted to see Blue Team and they gave you Blue Team. I'm sorry those stories didn't rock your world but as I said before, your argument is that they're being erased and their appearances contradict that erasure.

GreenleafCM wrote:
how is calling them out on that being "spoiled"?

It's spoiled because they gave you what you wanted and you just threw it back at their faces and said it wasn't good enough. It seems like what ever they do people are going to be unsatisfied and they'll take to crying and whining on the forums.

All this constant half glass empty negativity is getting tiresome.

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OP 10/18/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

VINNIENATOR15 wrote:
WashedMoon67526 wrote:
Quote:
But yeah, mostly I am referring to the core group of Blue Team and how they've been continuously tossed aside as a non-factor to John-117's character, when the exact opposite is the truth as we've seen in canon via the EU for the last 10 years. I just don't understand what 343 is trying to do. They say they're "incredibly fond of these characters", but then they do things that communicate the exact opposite.

Their reunion with John in Escalation was not done well.

I agree, you would think they would at least be a little emotional that they just found a friend (basically brother) who they thought was dead. Instead, there was nothing.

Indeed. That moment in 'Escalation' was probably the most flagrant showing of just how little consideration was given these characters and what they mean to the Chief. As Blue Team fans, we'd been waiting for their reunion with the Chief for a long time now - and all we got was a blank-faced "Oh hey, John. You're alive." ...Seriously?

A proper Blue Team reunion should've been something much closer to what we saw in 'First Strike', when the Chief returns to Reach to rescue the stranded Spartans. Their happiness and relief is clearly felt, and several Spartan smiles (the most emotional gesture they can communicate when in armor) are exchanged.

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10/18/2014

KingKeene83

Marine - Gold

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
GreenleafCM wrote:
I never said Bungie did Blue Team any favors, but 343i isn't doing any better in that regard either. They're brushing Blue Team under the rug in exactly the same way Bungie did - this recent article is proof of that. They're just doing it with comic books instead of whole novels; and frankly I'd much prefer to at least have a full novel.

Isn't doing any better? Since 343i has taken over, Blue Team has appeared and been referenced in...

Halo Legends
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn
Halo 4: Scanned Trailer
Halo Glasslands
Halo 4
Halo Escalation
Halo 5: Guardians

And Bungie had them in... Not a lot at all. Like I said already, Bungie had novels but they rarely referenced those novels and all promotional material for their games said the Chief was the last surviving Spartan because that's how they wanted it. 343i has done 1000x more with Blue Team than Bungie ever did.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the quality of those pieces, because whether or not the stories are good is irrelevant. The point is Blue Team is appearing in stuff, despite your claim they're being forgotten and erased.

GreenleafCM wrote:
It won't mean anything - because it's highly likely they won't get biographies. There's not even an official image of any of them to use for such a thing.

Do you even know how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works? The IGN video demonstrates that you can be watching a video, like Foward Unto Dawn or Nightfall and at anytime you can pause the video and bring up information such as scene description, character bios, locations, weapons, vehicles, etc. Example...

Menu
This menu is opened while watching Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn. You can see it shows a description of the scene, includes the characters who are in that scene, as well as the location the scene takes place in. You can click on those links to bring up the information about them.

Character Bio
Here they clicked on the Chief and brought up his bio. The image used for his bio is of him as he appeared in the movie the person is currently watching.

Now if this is how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works, then what do you think would happen when you opened it during the scenes that included Kelly-087 and Fred-104? It would probably include their bio and the image used would be how they appeared in that film, just like the Chief above.

Official images of Fred and Kelly.

GreenleafCM wrote:
Yes, everyone demanded to see Blue Team; and when we finally did, it was executed horribly. That is a legitimate criticism. Any honest lore fan cannot possibly say their inclusion in 'Escalation' did them any justice. 343i has the resources to do so much better and they're not

Which is subjective since not everyone is going to think those stories are bad. You wanted to see Blue Team and they gave you Blue Team. I'm sorry those stories didn't rock your world but as I said before, your argument is that they're being erased and their appearances contradict that erasure.

GreenleafCM wrote:
how is calling them out on that being "spoiled"?

It's spoiled because they gave you what you wanted and you just threw it back at their faces and said it wasn't good enough. It seems like what ever they do people are going to be unsatisfied and they'll take to crying and whining on the forums.

All this constant half glass empty negativity is getting tiresome.

^^^^agreed

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OP 10/18/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Isn't doing any better? Since 343i has taken over, Blue Team has appeared and been referenced in...

Halo Legends
**Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn
**Halo 4: Scanned Trailer
Halo Glasslands
**Halo 4
Halo Escalation
**Halo 5: Guardians

And Bungie had them in... Not a lot at all. Like I said already, Bungie had novels but they rarely referenced those novels and all promotional material for their games said the Chief was the last surviving Spartan because that's how they wanted it. 343i has done 1000x more with Blue Team than Bungie ever did.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the quality of those pieces, because whether or not the stories are good is irrelevant. The point is Blue Team is appearing in stuff, despite your claim they're being forgotten and erased.

Except for half of the things you just mentioned (that I've marked with a **) are incredibly brief cameos given with no explanation, no context, and have no impact on the story at large - they're just easter eggs for lore nerds. More does not always equal better, and that is exactly the case here. 343i may be giving Blue Team a number cameos that Bungie didn't, but they're not treating them with any more consideration in terms of actually involving them in the story than Bungie ever did.

Fred and Kelly's appearance in 'Forward Unto Dawn' (in which Kelly was completely OOC and Fred wasn't even named) was a complete waste. As was their inclusion in 'Escalation', and even the end of issue #10 acts like they were never even there. The quality of these pieces does matter. Because despite the quantity of appearances they make, if those appearances constantly amount to nothing and ignore their established characters and relevance to the Chief's story, it's hardly better than not including them at all. And now we see with things like this "encyclopedia" entry they've been deliberately left out in spite of the fact that it would be incredibly easy and prudent to mention them.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Do you even know how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works? The IGN video demonstrates that you can be watching a video, like Foward Unto Dawn or Nightfall and at anytime you can pause the video and bring up information such as scene description, character bios, locations, weapons, vehicles, etc. Example...

Menu
This menu is opened while watching Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn. You can see it shows a description of the scene, includes the characters who are in that scene, as well as the location the scene takes place in. You can click on those links to bring up the information about them.

Character Bio
Here they clicked on the Chief and brought up his bio. The image used for his bio is of him as he appeared in the movie the person is currently watching.

Now if this is how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works, then what do you think would happen when you opened it during the scenes that included Kelly-087 and Fred-104? It would probably include their bio and the image used would be how they appeared in that film, just like the Chief above.

Official images of Fred and Kelly.

That still doesn't explain why Blue Team was completely cut from the Chief's biography though - particularly if the one they showed was supposed to be geared toward the content of 'Forward Unto Dawn', one of only two pieces of video content that we have of John and Blue Team together. In fact using your own logic, it actually makes even less sense for them to not even be mentioned if that is the case.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Which is subjective since not everyone is going to think those stories are bad. You wanted to see Blue Team and they gave you Blue Team. I'm sorry those stories didn't rock your world but as I said before, your argument is that they're being erased and their appearances contradict that erasure.

Well I haven't come across one single Blue Team fan that believes that their appearance in 'Escalation' was well handled or that it did their characters justice. So I don't think my criticisms are entirely subjective. Yes, after years and years of waiting - we got Blue Team in a lackluster, short, and poorly edited/drawn comic book that in the end still treated them like they didn't matter. That is precisely the type of erasure I'm talking about; because in spite of everything that past canon has shown us of just how relevant they are to the Chief's character and story, 343i is not treating them as such. As I said before, it's not simply about how many appearances they get, it's about the nature of those appearances and the weight they are given/not given.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
It's spoiled because they gave you what you wanted and you just threw it back at their faces and said it wasn't good enough. It seems like what ever they do people are going to be unsatisfied and they'll take to crying and whining on the forums.

All this constant half glass empty negativity is getting tiresome.

But they didn't give me what I wanted - I wanted to see Blue Team treated like actual characters that matter to the Chief and his story - and what I got certainly wasn't good enough. It wouldn't have been hard to give their relationship to the Chief just a little more gravitas, but they're delberately not doing that and just treating them like one big easter egg. If we had gotten just one Spartan smile in 'Escalation' and just a few lines of meaningful dialogue between Chief and his team, and if Blue Team had gotten just one single mention in the Chief's biography, I wouldn't have anything to say.

I didn't force you to come on this thread, read what was posted here, and let alone respond to any of it. Frankly it's getting tiresome for me to continue to be strung around for years and years by empty promises and incredibly vague "hints" that my favorite characters might get to be included in the main story finally. Particulary when I keep seeing them treated poorly and left out of content where they're actually relevant. If you'd rather go spend your time on a more "optimistic" thread, by all means. But this is really the only channel of communication I have to try and make my concerns known to the the developers, so I'm going to keep on this until we get some real answers.

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10/19/2014

KingKeene83

Marine - Gold

GreenleafCM wrote:
Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Isn't doing any better? Since 343i has taken over, Blue Team has appeared and been referenced in...

Halo Legends
**Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn
**Halo 4: Scanned Trailer
Halo Glasslands
**Halo 4
Halo Escalation
**Halo 5: Guardians

And Bungie had them in... Not a lot at all. Like I said already, Bungie had novels but they rarely referenced those novels and all promotional material for their games said the Chief was the last surviving Spartan because that's how they wanted it. 343i has done 1000x more with Blue Team than Bungie ever did.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the quality of those pieces, because whether or not the stories are good is irrelevant. The point is Blue Team is appearing in stuff, despite your claim they're being forgotten and erased.

Except for half of the things you just mentioned (that I've marked with a **) are incredibly brief cameos given with no explanation, no context, and have no impact on the story at large - they're just easter eggs for lore nerds. More does not always equal better, and that is exactly the case here. 343i may be giving Blue Team a number cameos that Bungie didn't, but they're not treating them with any more consideration in terms of actually involving them in the story than Bungie ever did.

Fred and Kelly's appearance in 'Forward Unto Dawn' (in which Kelly was completely OOC and Fred wasn't even named) was a complete waste. As was their inclusion in 'Escalation', and even the end of issue #10 acts like they were never even there. The quality of these pieces does matter. Because despite the quantity of appearances they make, if those appearances constantly amount to nothing and ignore their established characters and relevance to the Chief's story, it's hardly better than not including them at all. And now we see with things like this "encyclopedia" entry they've been deliberately left out in spite of the fact that it would be incredibly easy and prudent to mention them.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Do you even know how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works? The IGN video demonstrates that you can be watching a video, like Foward Unto Dawn or Nightfall and at anytime you can pause the video and bring up information such as scene description, character bios, locations, weapons, vehicles, etc. Example...

Menu
This menu is opened while watching Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn. You can see it shows a description of the scene, includes the characters who are in that scene, as well as the location the scene takes place in. You can click on those links to bring up the information about them.

Character Bio
Here they clicked on the Chief and brought up his bio. The image used for his bio is of him as he appeared in the movie the person is currently watching.

Now if this is how the Halo Channel Encyclopedia works, then what do you think would happen when you opened it during the scenes that included Kelly-087 and Fred-104? It would probably include their bio and the image used would be how they appeared in that film, just like the Chief above.

Official images of Fred and Kelly.

That still doesn't explain why Blue Team was completely cut from the Chief's biography though - particularly if the one they showed was supposed to be geared toward the content of 'Forward Unto Dawn', one of only two pieces of video content that we have of John and Blue Team together. In fact using your own logic, it actually makes even less sense for them to not even be mentioned if that is the case.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
Which is subjective since not everyone is going to think those stories are bad. You wanted to see Blue Team and they gave you Blue Team. I'm sorry those stories didn't rock your world but as I said before, your argument is that they're being erased and their appearances contradict that erasure.

Well I haven't come across one single Blue Team fan that believes that their appearance in 'Escalation' was well handled or that it did their characters justice. So I don't think my criticisms are entirely subjective. Yes, after years and years of waiting - we got Blue Team in a lackluster, short, and poorly edited/drawn comic book that in the end still treated them like they didn't matter. That is precisely the type of erasure I'm talking about; because in spite of everything that past canon has shown us of just how relevant they are to the Chief's character and story, 343i is not treating them as such. As I said before, it's not simply about how many appearances they get, it's about the nature of those appearances and the weight they are given/not given.

Nihilus Shadow wrote:
It's spoiled because they gave you what you wanted and you just threw it back at their faces and said it wasn't good enough. It seems like what ever they do people are going to be unsatisfied and they'll take to crying and whining on the forums.

All this constant half glass empty negativity is getting tiresome.

But they didn't give me what I wanted - I wanted to see Blue Team treated like actual characters that matter to the Chief and his story - and what I got certainly wasn't good enough. It wouldn't have been hard to give their relationship to the Chief just a little more gravitas, but they're delberately not doing that and just treating them like one big easter egg. If we had gotten just one Spartan smile in 'Escalation' and just a few lines of meaningful dialogue between Chief and his team, and if Blue Team had gotten just one single mention in the Chief's biography, I wouldn't have anything to say.

I didn't force you to come on this thread, read what was posted here, and let alone respond to any of it. Frankly it's getting tiresome for me to continue to be strung around for years and years by empty promises and incredibly vague "hints" that my favorite characters might get to be included in the main story finally. Particulary when I keep seeing them treated poorly and left out of content where they're actually relevant. If you'd rather go spend your time on a more "optimistic" thread, by all means. But this is really the only channel of communication I have to try and make my concerns known to the the developers, so I'm going to keep on this until we get some real answers.

you really need to chill out! this is over a w.i.p bio on the halo channel!!! im sorry but you are spoiled! "But they didn't give me what I wanted - I wanted to see Blue Team treated like actual characters that matter to the Chief and his story - and what I got certainly wasn't good enough."

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10/19/2014

DC 409871

Spartan - Onyx

I don't think as fiercely as Leaf does, but I don't think a small "Chief served as the leader of Blue Team during the war" or something of the sort would be that hard to add in. Not necessary either, but a small detail that wouldn't be too hard to have in.

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OP 10/19/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

KingKeene83 wrote:
you really need to chill out! this is over a w.i.p bio on the halo channel!!! im sorry but you are spoiled! "But they didn't give me what I wanted - I wanted to see Blue Team treated like actual characters that matter to the Chief and his story - and what I got certainly wasn't good enough."

Any why exactly do I need to "chill out"? I have just as much right to discuss issues regarding the Halo Universe here as anyone else. I'm also backing up my criticisms and concerns with logic and evidence. You seem to have nothing to contribute to this thread other than your insistence on being belittling and rude.

I made that statement because the previous commenter stated that "I got what I wanted", when in fact the exact opposite was true for me and nearly every other Blue Team fan that had been waiting for their reunion with John-117 for over three years. Their reintroduction in 'Escalation' missed it's mark in almost every way, and as I said the very ending of the story arc literally doesn't even acknowledge their existence or involvement. Now this biography for the Chief is doing the same. As a long time Halo fan who cares about these characters, how is criticizing that and being disappointing by that unjustified? Let me try and make a metaphorical point: Say that you ask for vanilla ice cream, but someone gives you strawberry instead - a flavor you're allergic to so you can't even enjoy it - and you're disappointed; other people then telling you "well you're just spoiled! you got what you wanted!" isn't fair and doesn't really make sense.

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10/19/2014

A B1unt Cactus

ODST - Iron

The difference in this situation is that you have literally been told (by many in this thread, including myself) that Blue Team's appearance in Halo 5 is all but confirmed at this point, and you are still insisting that 343i are erasing them from this franchise, which is simply false. Instead, i would liken your metaphor more to this:

You're inquiring for Vanilla Ice-Cream, to which you are told, that it is coming soon, it just hasn't arrived yet. As a result, you go off into a panic, and falsify claims that because you didn't get it at the precise time that you wanted it, it is somehow being eliminated by the manufacturer. Thats what i am getting from this "systematic erasure of Blue Team" thread.

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OP 10/19/2014

GreenleafCM

ODST - Bronze

And as I've asked repeatedly - what proof or solid evidence do you have to support your claims that "Blue Team's appearance in 'Halo 5' is all but confirmed at this point"? Because we've certainly not gotten such from the actual developers, that's for sure.

Recent pieces of solid evidence I have to back up my stance:
- 'Halo 5's marketing solely revolving around Chief as a lone figure, and laying a foundation to introduce only Locke and the Arbiter.
- 'Escalation's offhand treatment of their characters.
- The deliberate omission of them from an "encyclopedia" entry where their inclusion would've been absolutely relevant.

Outside of a few non-commital cameos, we've gotten no proof that Blue Team will be a factor in the future of the plot. In fact current things seem to be actively trying to downplay their relevance to the Chief's character and story. And I'm inclined to base my opinions on what I actually see the developers doing, not on vague non-promises and the words of other fans.

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10/19/2014

ARCtheIsmaster

Marine - Silver

honestly, the whole concept of the spartan smile is kinda outdated because we know from ODST that the visors can become transparent. sure, the smile is still a thing that they developed, but that doesnt mean that it must be included, especially in a comic released in a time when there are newer halo fans who dont know every single halo nuance.

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