Forums / Community / Halo Universe

The Systematic Erasure of Blue Team...

OP GreenleafCM

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Woot! 100th post!

*Grabs popcorn*


Sure.. pour gasoline on the fire................ Although I suppose a 343 writer commenting in this thread is at least nice that you saw the argument.....

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Did you just compare writing stories to fatherhood? That's just... ugh!
You can't walk away from being a father. You can't go to college to be a father. Businesses won't look at your credentials before hiring you to be a father. You can become a father without being qualified or even trying. So when a father does the best he does and is still a crappy father, he gets points for trying.But when you're a writer and you suck at your job, you can always go to a trade school and learn to be a plumber.Now, I'm with Greenleaf here. I seriously doubt 343i is going to include Blue Team in Halo 5. If they do make it in, they'll end up like the Pelican in Halo 4: Included purely for fanservice, but nothing interesting will be done with them.
And unlike people asking to fly a Pelican, people want to see more of Blue team because there's good story potential in them. People are upset about the reunion in TN72H because it didn't have the emotional payoff they expected. Instead of a heartfelt family reunion where Blue Team welcomed back someone they thought was dead, it felt more like Reed was x-ing a box on a checklist. And honestly, if that's the best that 343i can deliver with Blue Team, I'd much rather have them omitted from Halo 5 entirely.

Apologies what I meant (in an abstract way) at least we have SOMETHING to appreciate and SHOULD appreciate it as its better then what we had.

I partly agree, but we need to remember that its not going to make everyone happy. Heck I have so high expectations for them I probably wont be. I honestly have a bit more faith that 343 will implement them (if they do) better then what they did... I'm fairly certain they know they dropped the ball with those at least... Still time will tell.

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Whether or not Blue Team was actually in certain pieces of media, them being my favorite characters is what fueled my desire to continue to learn more about the Halo Universe and the Master Chief as a character these past 10 or so years by reading the books/comics, playing the games, etc. Also I think time spent creating fanworks is indeed a legitimate part of somebody's investment in a franchise as well.I suppose we'll have to. However, as we have seen how they've been treated in recent materials like 'Escalation' and now this "encyclopedia" article, I think it's becoming quite clear what 343i thinks of Blue Team - that they don't matter. In spite of the fact that they've been a part of this franchise just as long as the main character himself and are a major part of his history and who he is as a person. To me, as a longtime Halo fan, that is just not acceptable.It would be easy if they actually started acknowledging these characters exist in more mainstream pieces of media. For example: by briefly including them in an article on the Halo Channel that's meant to inform people about the Chief's history - but they refuse to do even that. *Looks like you just answered your own question there too.Nah, it's all good. We may not agree on all points, but I appreciate your input. The thing is I think people are just frustrated they can't really counter my criticisms with actual facts beyond "well, we'll just have to wait and see what 343i does" and "I think you're just overreacting", while I have current, official evidence to support what I'm saying...As I've said before, I've been waiting and seeing for 3 years now for Blue Team to get some meaningful acknowledgement, and what I've gotten and what I've seen thus far is the exact opposite of that. Apparently this thread got whoever runs the "Catalog"s attention, so hopefully by keeping up on being vocal about this a tiny whisper about Blue Team just might make it's way up 343i's grapevine. It's not much, but it's the best I can hope for and can do.
I still think your wrong about 343 Not caring at all, But hey... we (mostly you) got a writer to comment... so... huzaa?

Anyway.... I'm fairly certain 343 droped the ball on those apperances..... Neglected them? yes..... But I doubt it will happen agian. They droped the ball on multiplayer a bit (and some other elements) and have shown thire improving... so hope remains (For at the very least better blue team apperances). Plus for all we know they could be planning to reveal them very secretly.... I mean 343 is all about subtlety..... soooo we really DON'T know what the heck is going on inside the "box" of 343 industries.

May I ask what "official evidence"? All I'm reading into that is that they kinda droped the ball on thire apperances.... Could you please clarify?

Apologies what I meant (in an abstract way) at least we have SOMETHING to appreciate and SHOULD appreciate it as its better then what we had.

I partly agree, but we need to remember that its not going to make everyone happy. Heck I have so high expectations for them I probably wont be. I honestly have a bit more faith that 343 will implement them (if they do) better then what they did... I'm fairly certain they know they dropped the ball with those at least... Still time will tell.


They shouldn't have really dropped the ball in the first place though. Not with how much history and development these characters already have with the Chief - again, what happened with 'Escalation' and now with this "encyclopedia" article is the direct result of them just not giving a care about Blue Team. I suppose I am appreciative they at least haven't been killed off in a forum post (yet)...but no matter what, after years and years of waiting to see John-117 and Blue Team's reunion, I still got it in a poorly drawn comic where it had about as much emotional resonance as two strangers saying 'hi' on the street. And that was written by the guy that's set to be 'Halo 5's lead writer. So pardon me for having zero faith that 343i will suddenly turn their whole game around and actually treat these characters like, you know, actual characters that are the Chief's best friends/family.

I still think your wrong about 343 Not caring at all, But hey... we (mostly you) got a writer to comment... so... huzaa?


It's a start. I don't really know what it means, since both contributions by 343i employees haven't really answered any of my questions, but this is probably the first time I've actually gotten a reaction/response from somebody from the company when attempting to reach out over social media. So there's that at least.

Anyway.... I'm fairly certain 343 droped the ball on those apperances..... Neglected them? yes..... But I doubt it will happen agian. They droped the ball on multiplayer a bit (and some other elements) and have shown thire improving... so hope remains (For at the very least better blue team apperances). Plus for all we know they could be planning to reveal them very secretly.... I mean 343 is all about subtlety..... soooo we really DON'T know what the heck is going on inside the "box" of 343 industries.

May I ask what "official evidence"? All I'm reading into that is that they kinda droped the ball on thire apperances.... Could you please clarify?
Well they're certainly not being subtle about introducing Agent Locke, reintroducing the Arbiter, or about how much boo-hooing is going to be done over Cortana in the future...There's no reason to be secret or subtle with Blue Team, because they are a big part of who the Chief is and his history; so there's absolutely no reason for these characters to be completely omitted from something like his biography unless 343i is just deliberately trying to nix them from the story. As I've said before, this article does nothing to gratify longtime lore fans investments nor does it help less aware fans (who are still laboring under the delusion that the Chief is "the last Spartan") learn anything about the Chief other than what they've already seen in the games they've already played (which only cover about 3 months of his 46 year life).

My hard evidence is issues 8-10 of 'Escalation' (particularly the epilogue of issue #10) as well as this latest "encyclopedia" entry on the Chief. People have been trying to use old cameos and easter eggs ('Forward Unto Dawn', 'Halo 4', Fred's armor from Gamescom) as some sort of solid proof that 343i will include Blue Team in the future...but with how these two recent pieces of media treat Blue Team, they kind of throw that notion under the bus.

I never said something couldn't happen in the future that proves my disappointment and pessimism wrong...but as things stand right now, I'm not willing to just sit around quietly anymore and wait until after a Blue Team-less 'Halo 5' comes out to ask why that happened.
Woot! 100th post!

*Grabs popcorn*

Oi! Ge'back here, you! I've got more suggestions for the forum design team!

Apologies what I meant (in an abstract way) at least we have SOMETHING to appreciate and SHOULD appreciate it as its better then what we had.

It's not better than what we had. Hell, sometimes having nothing is better than having trash.

I partly agree, but we need to remember that its not going to make everyone happy. Heck I have so high expectations for them I probably wont be.

"You can't make everyone happy" is the last defense of the indefensible. It has some application, but mostly it's a dismissal, a blind refusal of the arguments.

The problem with Blue Team's appearance isn't that Linda's armor is the wrong shade of blue, it's that Brian Reed made no effort to capture their prior characterization.

Anyway.... I'm fairly certain 343 droped the ball on those apperances..... Neglected them? yes..... But I doubt it will happen agian. They droped the ball on multiplayer a bit (and some other elements) and have shown thire improving...

They dropped the ball on multiplayer twice, first with the Reach rebalance and then with Halo 4's multiplayer. The mistakes they've made in Halo 4 and Escalation are the same mistakes they've been making since Halo: Legends.

That's the problem with 343i: they need to screw up repeatedly before they get their act straight, unless they ignore the problem altogether.

I mean 343 is all about subtlety.....
Subtlety... are we even talking about the same 343i?
honestly, the whole concept of the spartan smile is kinda outdated because we know from ODST that the visors can become transparent. sure, the smile is still a thing that they developed, but that doesnt mean that it must be included, especially in a comic released in a time when there are newer halo fans who dont know every single halo nuance.
Only ODST visors can do that, not the Spartans, There hasn't been any mention of Spartan visors that can un-polarize.

and when did the Spartan Smile get into this?
Oh leaf, I never get tired of seeing you spread the word about blue team. While I don't believe they are being erased (Getting it from the horse's mouth at NYCC mind you) I agree that they should do better with blue team
honestly, the whole concept of the spartan smile is kinda outdated because we know from ODST that the visors can become transparent. sure, the smile is still a thing that they developed, but that doesnt mean that it must be included, especially in a comic released in a time when there are newer halo fans who dont know every single halo nuance.

Only ODST visors can do that, not the Spartans, There hasn't been any mention of Spartan visors that can un-polarize.

and when did the Spartan Smile get into this?
In Ghosts of Gnyx, when Dr. Halsey deduces Kurt's identity, he de-polarizes his SPI visor to show his face. Though never seen on a Mjolnir visor, I don't why it would be possible..
That said, really like the spartan smile, so i don't care about depolarization, and so probably do they..

Apologies what I meant (in an abstract way) at least we have SOMETHING to appreciate and SHOULD appreciate it as its better then what we had.

I partly agree, but we need to remember that its not going to make everyone happy. Heck I have so high expectations for them I probably wont be. I honestly have a bit more faith that 343 will implement them (if they do) better then what they did... I'm fairly certain they know they dropped the ball with those at least... Still time will tell.


They shouldn't have really dropped the ball in the first place though. Not with how much history and development these characters already have with the Chief - again, what happened with 'Escalation' and now with this "encyclopedia" article is the direct result of them just not giving a care about Blue Team. I suppose I am appreciative they at least haven't been killed off in a forum post (yet)...but no matter what, after years and years of waiting to see John-117 and Blue Team's reunion, I still got it in a poorly drawn comic where it had about as much emotional resonance as two strangers saying 'hi' on the street. And that was written by the guy that's set to be 'Halo 5's lead writer. So pardon me for having zero faith that 343i will suddenly turn their whole game around and actually treat these characters like, you know, actual characters that are the Chief's best friends/family.

I still think your wrong about 343 Not caring at all, But hey... we (mostly you) got a writer to comment... so... huzaa?


It's a start. I don't really know what it means, since both contributions by 343i employees haven't really answered any of my questions, but this is probably the first time I've actually gotten a reaction/response from somebody from the company when attempting to reach out over social media. So there's that at least.

Anyway.... I'm fairly certain 343 droped the ball on those apperances..... Neglected them? yes..... But I doubt it will happen agian. They droped the ball on multiplayer a bit (and some other elements) and have shown thire improving... so hope remains (For at the very least better blue team apperances). Plus for all we know they could be planning to reveal them very secretly.... I mean 343 is all about subtlety..... soooo we really DON'T know what the heck is going on inside the "box" of 343 industries.

May I ask what "official evidence"? All I'm reading into that is that they kinda droped the ball on thire apperances.... Could you please clarify?


Well they're certainly not being subtle about introducing Agent Locke, reintroducing the Arbiter, or about how much boo-hooing is going to be done over Cortana in the future...There's no reason to be secret or subtle with Blue Team, because they are a big part of who the Chief is and his history; so there's absolutely no reason for these characters to be completely omitted from something like his biography unless 343i is just deliberately trying to nix them from the story. As I've said before, this article does nothing to gratify longtime lore fans investments nor does it help less aware fans (who are still laboring under the delusion that the Chief is "the last Spartan") learn anything about the Chief other than what they've already seen in the games they've already played (which only cover about 3 months of his 46 year life).

My hard evidence is issues 8-10 of 'Escalation' (particularly the epilogue of issue #10) as well as this latest "encyclopedia" entry on the Chief. People have been trying to use old cameos and easter eggs ('Forward Unto Dawn', 'Halo 4', Fred's armor from Gamescom) as some sort of solid proof that 343i will include Blue Team in the future...but with how these two recent pieces of media treat Blue Team, they kind of throw that notion under the bus.

I never said something couldn't happen in the future that proves my disappointment and pessimism wrong...but as things stand right now, I'm not willing to just sit around quietly anymore and wait until after a Blue Team-less 'Halo 5' comes out to ask why that happened.


I disagree that we should have no faith in the way they treat Blue team from now on.... Hopefully they will do better (optimist here) However I do confess i'm worried about how they will handle blue team too... if they put them in the game. They have to be main characters and not side characters. Although a lead writer dropping the ball on Blue team that poorly is............ terrible... But again... People make mistakes... Lets give him a chance to redeem himself before throwing him under the bus.

True, But they are main streamers and like Palmar their trying to get Locke up their as an established character by establishing there background. Blue team is already established and has a background... so they MIGHT not need to hype them up as much.

Well to some cultures subtlety IS evidence (japan)... But I concede that's not much evidence to me. How 343 has handled blue team is regrettably, but as I said before.. I'm sure they will do better... (but who knows... we could both be wrong)

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Dragoth2000 wrote:
Apologies what I meant (in an abstract way) at least we have SOMETHING to appreciate and SHOULD appreciate it as its better then what we had.

It's not better than what we had. Hell, sometimes having nothing is better than having trash.

Dragoth2000 wrote:
I partly agree, but we need to remember that its not going to make everyone happy. Heck I have so high expectations for them I probably wont be.

"You can't make everyone happy" is the last defense of the indefensible. It has some application, but mostly it's a dismissal, a blind refusal of the arguments.The problem with Blue Team's appearance isn't that Linda's armor is the wrong shade of blue, it's that Brian Reed made no effort to capture their prior characterization.

Dragoth2000 wrote:
Anyway.... I'm fairly certain 343 droped the ball on those apperances..... Neglected them? yes..... But I doubt it will happen agian. They droped the ball on multiplayer a bit (and some other elements) and have shown thire improving...

They dropped the ball on multiplayer twice, first with the Reach rebalance and then with Halo 4's multiplayer. The mistakes they've made in Halo 4 and Escalation are the same mistakes they've been making since Halo: Legends.That's the problem with 343i: they need to screw up repeatedly before they get their act straight, unless they ignore the problem altogether.

Dragoth2000 wrote:
I mean 343 is all about subtlety.....

Subtlety... are we even talking about the same 343i?
True, But wither it was trash or not is debate to some, But As a blue team advocate... you are correct......... How blue team was handled was trash... But we still got something.

No... that's fact... You really really can't make everyone happy. Yes, ive agreeded that Mr. Reeds handling of blue team was bad.... VERY BAD, but agian... I'm sure they have learned from their mistakes. I mean i almost flew into a blind rage with the "scout" and "sniper" switch..

I thought Bungie was behind reach....? Yes, Halo 4 stunk... But again... they have admitted their mistakes.... Not to mention Reach was a different beast then halo 4.. .where 343 went out of their way to try to change the formula. I am of the crowd that hated Legends as well... But I blame that more on... anime style... then I do 343. I mean military ODSTs had haircuts.... that bothers me... a lot....

I meant Subtle hinting occasionally with topics.
honestly, the whole concept of the spartan smile is kinda outdated because we know from ODST that the visors can become transparent. sure, the smile is still a thing that they developed, but that doesnt mean that it must be included, especially in a comic released in a time when there are newer halo fans who dont know every single halo nuance.


Only ODST visors can do that, not the Spartans, There hasn't been any mention of Spartan visors that can un-polarize.

and when did the Spartan Smile get into this?

In Ghosts of Gnyx, when Dr. Halsey deduces Kurt's identity, he de-polarizes his SPI visor to show his face. Though never seen on a Mjolnir visor, I don't why it would be possible..
That said, really like the spartan smile, so i don't care about depolarization, and so probably do they..
to be fair, that's for spartans IIIs, the IIs have never had that feature
I disagree that we should have no faith in the way they treat Blue team from now on.... Hopefully they will do better (optimist here) However I do confess i'm worried about how they will handle blue team too... if they put them in the game. They have to be main characters and not side characters. Although a lead writer dropping the ball on Blue team that poorly is............ terrible... But again... People make mistakes... Lets give him a chance to redeem himself before throwing him under the bus.


The question still remains though, why were they handled so badly in the first place? These characters are well established, and there was no reason for their reunion with the Chief to be so completely botched other than that the writer simply didn't give a care - and it's that type of "fans will eat up anything we give them so the quality doesn't matter" attitude that will inevitably lead to a franchise's demise. Also with a moment as important to the characters as this being so poorly handled, that's a pretty big strike against them already.

True, But they are main streamers and like Palmar their trying to get Locke up their as an established character by establishing there background. Blue team is already established and has a background... so they MIGHT not need to hype them up as much.
Yes Blue Team may be very well established in the EU, but the fact is that people who have only played the games still don't know a lick about them. If 343i has "plans" to include them in the future, they're definitely running out of time to introduce them in a gradual enough way so that mainstream gamers don't completely reject them (like what happened with Palmer). And as I've said before, it would be so incredibly easy to include them in basic things like the Chief's biography at parts where they're actually very relevant, but 343i refused to do even that. So what does that tell you?

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic, and I'm certainly not saying you can't have any faith in 343i...but when the evidence starts to stack up like this, its hard to simply use blind optimism as a way to block other people from voicing legitimate concerns (I'm not talking about you either - more the people before that simply refused to address my criticisms with evidence/said I was just overreacting).
I disagree that we should have no faith in the way they treat Blue team from now on.... Hopefully they will do better (optimist here) However I do confess i'm worried about how they will handle blue team too... if they put them in the game. They have to be main characters and not side characters. Although a lead writer dropping the ball on Blue team that poorly is............ terrible... But again... People make mistakes... Lets give him a chance to redeem himself before throwing him under the bus.


The question still remains though, why were they handled so badly in the first place? These characters are well established, and there was no reason for their reunion with the Chief to be so completely botched other than that the writer simply didn't give a care - and it's that type of "fans will eat up anything we give them so the quality doesn't matter" attitude that will inevitably lead to a franchise's demise. Also with a moment as important to the characters as this being so poorly handled, that's a pretty big strike against them already.

True, But they are main streamers and like Palmar their trying to get Locke up their as an established character by establishing there background. Blue team is already established and has a background... so they MIGHT not need to hype them up as much.


Yes Blue Team may be very well established in the EU, but the fact is that people who have only played the games still don't know a lick about them. If 343i has "plans" to include them in the future, they're definitely running out of time to introduce them in a gradual enough way so that mainstream gamers don't completely reject them (like what happened with Palmer). And as I've said before, it would be so incredibly easy to include them in basic things like the Chief's biography at parts where they're actually very relevant, but 343i refused to do even that. So what does that tell you?

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic, and I'm certainly not saying you can't have any faith in 343i...but when the evidence starts to stack up like this, its hard to simply use blind optimism as a way to block other people from voicing legitimate concerns (I'm not talking about you either - more the people before that simply refused to address my criticisms with evidence/said I was just overreacting).
I honestly don't know why. It baffles me, But I don't know. Again, People make mistakes. But yo are correct that's a strike. If it continuous it will be a problem, But currently im willing to give em the benefit of the doubt.

Well introducing Blue team could also cause people that have never had a lick of sense in the EU (halo heretics if you ask me) might just go "WTF, who are these people?" and start looking at it. Palmar was different, Ive honestly never had an issue with her. But her problem was she was like lightning more or less. Blue team is already established and we have numerous sources.. If Linda snips 3 banshees in a half second in a game, I'm not going to bat an eyelash. People that don't know about blue team are probably not going to read a biography on the chief so I don't see how that is an issue either way. It might not be as easy as you think.... Keep in mind were not in the "box". We don't know why the heck their not doing it, and criticizing them saying they don't "care" is not going to help the situation. I'm pretty sure they care about it more then us.

I would not say your overreacting per say... simply.... making a mountain out of a molehill... (1-2 more strike it will a issue though...) I don't see how the evidence is "stacking" up per say, But all we have is them leaving them out here or their, while they have PUT them IN things.. granted its not the game, and it SHOULD be the game, but its not "doomsday" just yet.

I'm fairly certain 343 has plans for blue team. The issue I have is IF its in the GAMES. If they treat them right in the EU (they have..... not done a GREAT job so far) I will be able to live with that. But if they..... underestimate the importance of the characters.if blue team appears.... they really should be more important then Cortona, Locke, Arbitar. That might be half the issue as well. If they do appear in a game... they should automatically trump almost every character. That's a little bit of an issue. However if they do appear they had better be good... (as Ive said before, i have such high expectations I doubt they ever will be good enough for me) else it won't do the charcters justice as all to be side characters (shudders).

P.S Greenleaf check your "inbox". I had a query or 2 not related to this thread that I wanted to ask.
Imagine that!
Did you write these terminals sir? ;)
The Terminals, like most things, are a fantastic team effort with a lot of very talented folks involved. :)
And so, the "systematic erasure of Blue Team", has fallen flat on its face. Do you now understand that Blue Team's involvement is actually quite significant, or are just going to dismiss it as 'cheesy fan service'?
Terminal 2 features Blue Team. Debate is pointless now.


And so, the "systematic erasure of Blue Team", has fallen flat on its face. Do you now understand that Blue Team's involvement is actually quite significant, or are just going to dismiss it as 'cheesy fan service'?
No, nothing has really "fallen flat on its face" quite yet. Because guess what that terminal is: It's simply another brief cameo. That's like saying that because he popped up in the 'Halo 4' terminals, Forthencho had "significant involvement" in the game - which is obviously not true.

Now is it nice to have another Blue Team cameo (this one specifically being Fred and Linda)? Sure! Is it nice to see a small tie-in to 'First Strike' in the 'Halo 2 Anniversary' terminals? You bet!
...But at the end of the day, it doesn't mean Blue Team is actually getting to play a larger role in the story going forward. As I've said this whole time (and user Quirel has echoed in a sense as well), it's not just about the quantity of appearances Blue Team gets - it's also about the quality and nature of those appearances. This new terminal is a step in the right direction to at least get more mainstream gamers to see with their eyes that these characters exist in some capacity, but as it stands it's still just fanservice for those that already know them (and the terminals have always been geared more for lore nerds anyway). With this latest appearance I can redact my sentiment that they're being "erased" per say; but they're still not being included in ways that hold much weight either. Maybe we'll get a huge windfall on Tuesday with something else from the Collection, I don't know, but for right now my overall points still stand.

And on that note, I'm still puzzled as to why Blue Team gets to cameo in certain things like this terminal, but then still get completely left out of something like the Chief's biography on the Halo Channel. Again, it's the lack of consistency with the integration of these characters that really confuses me and makes me have doubts as to what 343i is "planning" to do with them (beyond just using them as cameo-fodder). :\

Am I feeling a little more optimistic than I did a few weeks ago? Certainly. But I still intend to keep up asking for Blue Team until we get solid confirmation that they'll actually be included in the future of the story.
Oh for cryin' out loud! All signs point to Blue Team being more prominently featured in-game. Between this terminal and the hint in the beta trailer, it's more or less confirmed.

EDIT: 117th reply. Beat that GrimBrother...
No. It'll be confirmed when we get an official trailer, or an official game summary, or an official image of Blue Team with the Chief in 'Halo 5' with a caption that says something along the lines of "play as the Master Chief with a team fellow Spartan-IIs"...it's not safe to assume anything until that happens.

Simply put: I'll believe it when I see it. No more, no less. And a few cameos (and some very poorly handled comics), are not enough for me to simply have blind faith that Blue Team is going to get treated right in the future without having to bring the subject up to the community.
No. It'll be confirmed when we get a trailer, or a game summary, or an image of Blue Team with the Chief in 'Halo 5' with a caption that says something along the lines of "play as the Master Chief with a team fellow Spartan-IIs"...it's not safe to assume anything until that happens.

Simply put: I'll believe it when I see it. No more, no less. And a few cameos (and some very poorly handled comics), are not enough for me to simply have blind faith that Blue Team is going to get treated right in the future without having to bring the subject up to the community.
You're right, of course, but still, even I'm feeling optimistic and I never thought I'd ever see Blue Team outside of the books.

Their appearance in Escalation(no matter how poorly it was handled) still nearly knocked my socks off. This Terminal preview, likewise, was a surprise.

And to hear Linda's voice for the first time! What a treat!

Hopefully they will have a role in Halo 5:G, it's long overdue.
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