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Were the Covenant Ever Scary? - RANT

OP Archon Vaxal

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This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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The Assembly's canonicity is up for debate. Catalog established that the ODSTs are "NON-augmented". You said so, yourself.
He divided them and non-augmented soldiers.
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Did you even read New Blood? That point about cancer proves nothing except that the author of New Blood made a minor mistake about something completely unrelated. You are seeing ghosts where none exist.
I pointed out this, as well as the fact that cancer was detected in another ODST.
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ODST ARMOR DOES NOT INCLUDE AN EXOSKELETON, YOU OBSTINATE BORE! It doesn't matter how many times you ignore reality. You are choosing to be willfully ignorant. https://www.halopedia.org/ODST_armorAs per the official wiki: ODST armor includes the helmet, the body-suit, the armor-plating, and the rucksack. None of which is powered armor— the only time that ODST armor has any powered aspect to it is when a Spartan uses the ODST permutation for their Mjolnir.
https://www.halopedia.org/Michael_CrespoMickey was in prison after having defected to the side of the Insurrection. When he got out and he was reintroduced to the United Rebel Front, the Front gave a set of modified ODST-armor, as Mickey didn't have any Mjolnir. When Buck comments on the exoskeleton, he says the word "apparently". I'm more than willing to bet that Buck never knew that about the older model of armor— implying that modern ODST armor-sets have no such thing, and that therefore: ODSTs never receive augmentations of any kind. Either that: or the United Rebel Front simply modified the armor-set, themselves.
Wiki is not proof of absence.

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"should get into john"
Honestly, half the frustration of talking to you is derived entirely from your stubborn refusal to speak properly.
Really? You're using pictures from the gameplay, instead of actual lore? That right there renders your argument invalid.
The massive Hunters in the Duel story are entirely a matter of theatrical lisence on the part of the animators. We know for a fact that a Hunter of that size cannot physically exist— Goliaths (a colony of Lekgolo roughly equivalent to two Hunters put together), for example, are stated to only exist in situations where the colony can receive enough nutrients. Goliaths are only used by the Banished because Colony has a way of making a pair of Hunters combine, temporarily, without health-risks. The enter reason Hunters even exist, is because they split from a Goliath that grew too large to sustain itself.
Wiki disagrees with you on this. And no.
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In the Halo Legends episode The Duel, the Mgalekgolo are shown to be at least 50 feet tall. This was explained by Frank O'Connor saying that a Hunter's appearance changes due to the gravity and environment.
This is not only a gameplay:
https://youtu.be/9yy3efib6tM
https://youtu.be/eQYEqq92nbE
The Assembly's canonicity is up for debate. Catalog established that the ODSTs are "NON-augmented". You said so, yourself.
He divided them and non-augmented soldiers.
Quote:
Did you even read New Blood? That point about cancer proves nothing except that the author of New Blood made a minor mistake about something completely unrelated. You are seeing ghosts where none exist.
I pointed out this, as well as the fact that cancer was detected in another ODST.
Quote:
ODST ARMOR DOES NOT INCLUDE AN EXOSKELETON, YOU OBSTINATE BORE! It doesn't matter how many times you ignore reality. You are choosing to be willfully ignorant. https://www.halopedia.org/ODST_armorAs per the official wiki: ODST armor includes the helmet, the body-suit, the armor-plating, and the rucksack. None of which is powered armor— the only time that ODST armor has any powered aspect to it is when a Spartan uses the ODST permutation for their Mjolnir.
https://www.halopedia.org/Michael_CrespoMickey was in prison after having defected to the side of the Insurrection. When he got out and he was reintroduced to the United Rebel Front, the Front gave a set of modified ODST-armor, as Mickey didn't have any Mjolnir. When Buck comments on the exoskeleton, he says the word "apparently". I'm more than willing to bet that Buck never knew that about the older model of armor— implying that modern ODST armor-sets have no such thing, and that therefore: ODSTs never receive augmentations of any kind. Either that: or the United Rebel Front simply modified the armor-set, themselves.
Wiki is not proof of absence.

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"should get into john"
Honestly, half the frustration of talking to you is derived entirely from your stubborn refusal to speak properly.
Really? You're using pictures from the gameplay, instead of actual lore? That right there renders your argument invalid.
The massive Hunters in the Duel story are entirely a matter of theatrical lisence on the part of the animators. We know for a fact that a Hunter of that size cannot physically exist— Goliaths (a colony of Lekgolo roughly equivalent to two Hunters put together), for example, are stated to only exist in situations where the colony can receive enough nutrients. Goliaths are only used by the Banished because Colony has a way of making a pair of Hunters combine, temporarily, without health-risks. The enter reason Hunters even exist, is because they split from a Goliath that grew too large to sustain itself.
Wiki disagrees with you on this. And no.
Quote:
In the Halo Legends episode The Duel, the Mgalekgolo are shown to be at least 50 feet tall. This was explained by Frank O'Connor saying that a Hunter's appearance changes due to the gravity and environment.
This is not only a gameplay:
https://youtu.be/9yy3efib6tM
https://youtu.be/eQYEqq92nbE
— Who "divided" what? What needs to be divided and who's doing it?
— And I pointed out, in turn, that that has nothing to do with th topic at hand. You keep bringing it up as though it matters, but it really, really doesn't.
— The wiki is the sum-total of everything that hundreds-thousands of Halo fans have observed in the books. You won't find a more complete and reliable source of information. Your refusal to accept that is only evidence against you.
— The wiki does not disagree with me on this. According to the wiki-page on Goliaths:
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"Unlike a typical Mgalekgolo pair, which splits a colony into two independent bodies, Goliaths are a Hunter-style body containing a single Lekgolo colony that optimizes brute strength over all other considerations, forgoing the typical assault cannon. Unlike normal Hunters, Goliaths are quadrupedal. Inside the Goliath’s armored shell most of the Lekgolo in the gestalt adapt to function as corded pseudo-muscle and thick-skinned protective bands, with a minimum of sensory and cognitive function. Goliaths are not easily self-sustained due to their ravenous hunger for nutrients, and are typically only seen in times of extreme danger among feral Lekgolo, but "Colony" of the Banished can coerce or direct subsidiary gestalts into this form seemingly at will".
— And I'm telling you that that was a result of the animators having fun. The gravity on Sanghelios is higher than that of Earth-like worlds, and such a creature would not be able to support its own weight. Frank O'Connor was speaking to the fact that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of different forms that Lekgolo-colonies can take— with as many or as few limbs as the colony desires, and at any given size that it can sustain. O'Connor may have been referring to those ridiculous fifty-foot things, but I would take that to mean he was forced to come up with an excuse for the animators of The Duel having done something stupid. Halo Wars 2 establishes that the Goliath form is about as large as Lekgolo colonies can feasibly get in Earth-like gravity— on worlds with higher gravity, like Sanghelios, such a size would not be sustainable.
Xero Link wrote:
Halo 2 opening it is shown that 2 Assault Carriers 13 Battle Cruisers and well over 100 boarding craft wreaked havoc on the Home Fleet a force shown to be 8 Heavy Cruisers and 67 Light Frigates Halo 3 ODST Opening (Hours Later) We're shown that most of the fleet is lost, and later confirmed by Lord Hood in Halo 3 during the opening of Crows Nest So yes I'm sure it's safe to see that the Covenant are dangerous, even with Spartans. Hell, how many of them were lost to the war?
Okay. Good point. But the fact that that piece of information is split between two different games, nearly a decade apart, is a problem in itself, no? And though that's quite an astute observation: it's an observation that most people won't make, will they?
Are there any other examples you can think of? I would genuinely like to see any and all other testimony.
Not really, though yes It's two games nearly a decade apart, it's only minutes apart in the timeline.

I'd like to next point out the Defense of New Alexandria in Halo Reach also. Specifically the grisly scene found at the start of Exodus. Also, the 2 shots of final protective fire (FPF) that was shot at the Corvettes in orbit around the city as civilians were trying to be evacuated, didn't even scratch the ships. Also, the end of the mission, with the ship being shot down and making an emergency landing in the ocean, declared not worth the time to save the survivors. Only 3 ships got away, and we don't know what happened to them once in orbit, but if Noble 6 hadn't have gotten lucky and landed where he did when he did all of those ships would have suffered the same fate. Then we have the brutal glassing of the city as a whole in it's namesake mission, as you progress further along, more and more capitol ships show up and begin glassing the planet.
Xero Link wrote:
Xero Link wrote:
Not really, though yes It's two games nearly a decade apart, it's only minutes apart in the timeline.

I'd like to next point out the Defense of New Alexandria in Halo Reach also. Specifically the grisly scene found at the start of Exodus. Also, the 2 shots of final protective fire (FPF) that was shot at the Corvettes in orbit around the city as civilians were trying to be evacuated, didn't even scratch the ships. Also, the end of the mission, with the ship being shot down and making an emergency landing in the ocean, declared not worth the time to save the survivors. Only 3 ships got away, and we don't know what happened to them once in orbit, but if Noble 6 hadn't have gotten lucky and landed where he did when he did all of those ships would have suffered the same fate. Then we have the brutal glassing of the city as a whole in it's namesake mission, as you progress further along, more and more capitol ships show up and begin glassing the planet.
Would you believe me if I said I wasn't really compelled by all that? Because... to me, that just seems par for the course in sci-fi planetary invasion plots. And it also seems par for the course for the Covenant— I don't know, should I have been shocked and/or appalled when playing through that, the first time? Did most other players expect the UNSC to fair better, or something?
Maybe I'm just being an impertinent little gremlin... maybe my standards are too high.
Folks, just a reminder to please not post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or are quoting other users, please try and can edit your last post (though we can understand if you hit the character limit in a post). Thanks
Xero Link wrote:
Xero Link wrote:
Not really, though yes It's two games nearly a decade apart, it's only minutes apart in the timeline.

I'd like to next point out the Defense of New Alexandria in Halo Reach also. Specifically the grisly scene found at the start of Exodus. Also, the 2 shots of final protective fire (FPF) that was shot at the Corvettes in orbit around the city as civilians were trying to be evacuated, didn't even scratch the ships. Also, the end of the mission, with the ship being shot down and making an emergency landing in the ocean, declared not worth the time to save the survivors. Only 3 ships got away, and we don't know what happened to them once in orbit, but if Noble 6 hadn't have gotten lucky and landed where he did when he did all of those ships would have suffered the same fate. Then we have the brutal glassing of the city as a whole in it's namesake mission, as you progress further along, more and more capitol ships show up and begin glassing the planet.
Would you believe me if I said I wasn't really compelled by all that? Because... to me, that just seems par for the course in sci-fi planetary invasion plots. And it also seems par for the course for the Covenant— I don't know, should I have been shocked and/or appalled when playing through that, the first time? Did most other players expect the UNSC to fair better, or something?
Maybe I'm just being an impertinent little gremlin... maybe my standards are too high.
I'm mainly just discussing the first question about the lethality of the covenant. You had stated that they never quite showed us that they were lethal in game because Spartans were always so big and bad that they made fools of the covenant, and how the books were the only examples of this.
Xero Link wrote:
Xero Link wrote:
Xero Link wrote:
Would you believe me if I said I wasn't really compelled by all that? Because... to me, that just seems par for the course in sci-fi planetary invasion plots. And it also seems par for the course for the Covenant— I don't know, should I have been shocked and/or appalled when playing through that, the first time? Did most other players expect the UNSC to fair better, or something?
Maybe I'm just being an impertinent little gremlin... maybe my standards are too high.
I'm mainly just discussing the first question about the lethality of the covenant. You had stated that they never quite showed us that they were lethal in game because Spartans were always so big and bad that they made fools of the covenant, and how the books were the only examples of this.
To be fair, I (yes, it's me) complain about things in the books a fair amount, as well. If anything, I complain about the books more.
I feel like the moments where the covenant can be scary haven't really been covered at all in the games and not a whole lot in the books, the early years. The moments like in contact harvest and the first several years of the war from 2525-2535 have a lot of oppourtunities for scary covenant moments as colony after colony is getting destroyed and billions of humans are dying. But because all the games are so spartan focused all we see are the narrow victories, and the complete victories. I also agree on the point that the splinter factions don't feel at all like a threat other than the banished.

At the end of the day it's all about perspective and in almost every big popular halo story the spartan's kick -Yoink-, take names and win, while the covenant loses like 90% of the time. If Halo focused more on the marine/navy/army side of things then it would be a lot more of a desperate and threatening situation.
I feel like the moments where the covenant can be scary haven't really been covered at all in the games and not a whole lot in the books, the early years. The moments like in contact harvest and the first several years of the war from 2525-2535 have a lot of oppourtunities for scary covenant moments as colony after colony is getting destroyed and billions of humans are dying. But because all the games are so spartan focused all we see are the narrow victories, and the complete victories. I also agree on the point that the splinter factions don't feel at all like a threat other than the banished.

At the end of the day it's all about perspective and in almost every big popular halo story the spartan's kick -Yoink-, take names and win, while the covenant loses like 90% of the time. If Halo focused more on the marine/navy/army side of things then it would be a lot more of a desperate and threatening situation.
I agree. It seems that at every turn, the fanbase has to go out of its own way to find things that the Covenant does well (reading too far into the dialogue in the games, or making wild speculation about text in the books), and even when the fanbase finds those things: it usually just loops right back around to making the Spartans/Humans look good, and taking away from the Covies.

For example: the troop and infantry tactics displayed by the Covenant in Oblivion, while superficially praise-worthy on its face, only brings into question why we've never seen such tactics before, and why the Covenant in Oblivion still took a disgusting amount of casualties, in spite of said tactics. Why did the Covenant still lose almost every fight it got into, despite said tactical prowess? If that's the best we can expect, why on Earth were the Covenant ever that big a threat?

The Silent Shadow in Silent Storm, for example, lost every encounter they found themselves in, and displayed no actual competence (beyond the norm), except in regards to the characters around them speaking of them well and talking as though they're far more frightening than they actually are. Which only causes such praise to ring hollow and seem unsubstantiated.
The Banished should be more scary now,i would even say that we need to win!
The covenant seemed like a civilized people who were efficient not into torture if anyone. The only exception I can think of here is the brutes because I’m almost every brute appearance in lore the writers make it pretty clear that brutes are the savages of the covenant and like to punch and tear humans (and everything else that gets in their way) apart limb from limb. It’s also implied that brutes even go as far as cooking and eating humans. So in general the covenant are not scary except for the brutes.
See my problem with this is your title saying "WERE The Covanant Ever Scary" implying that they might have never been to begin with! I think they aren't scary to us as players because of a slew of non lore related reasons with everything from the fact the consumers of the halo franchise are almost always spartans which have an unfair advantage over them to Halos not as realistic art style were used to with other games containing enemies and threats to fear. That being said Im pretty sure outside of this topic we can agree that the flood is the most badass and maybe the greatest pipe dream of a threat ever created. Im sure if we all took the time to read some of the halo novels were we get perspectives of threats like the Jiralhane in the covenant forces from the perspectives of humans with actual attachment to people out side of a military perpective and so on you might learn to realize how scary this threat might be to a common people living in this universe.. also I don't know if most people really just understand how -Yoinking!- huge the aliens are.. like grunts are the size of a normal human... Grunts!! its unimaginable sometimes lol.
I believe it depends on which game/era Covenant you're referring to. The Covenant in Halo's 1-3, ODST and Reach were definitely fearful. Halo 4 made them a pretty serious threat. But Halo 5 just made them a complete joke to fight against. No character development, no buildup of suspension leading up to the battle scenes. Maybe they were an issue during the battle of the Sangheili capital city, but everything else was just...not that good or scary.
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