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What other augmentations ODST get from the Orion?

OP ThreeCypress929

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EvilKeny28 wrote:
I am sorry to say, but you have not provided any proof that ODSTs are all augmented.
The only thing you have shown is that augmentation is not only limited to Spartans, which we already knew.
Even if ODSTs were augmented they would be of very low potency.

The Halo Encyclopedia claims:
"Basic performance-enhancing technologies have been commonplace among human militaries for centuries; however, extensive experimentation pushing the limits of the human body has historically been limited due to ethical concerns. A notable exception to this are the biochemical and cybernetic augmentations used in the SPARTAN programs, which represent the peak of human biological and cybernetic enhancement."
So from this statement we see that while militaries do practice augmentation (of which we do not know who qualifies for augmentation), these enhancements were very modest and in all likelihood would barely give an edge over a non-augmented individual.

ORION Phase 1 (2321) was the first major effort made to create super soldiers, however after five military candidates were selected and tested, the project was declared ineffective, the candidates were returned to their respective chains of command and within a year, all candidates would die of unknown causes.
ORION was relaunched in 2491 however was deactivated in 2506 due in major part to the high "washout" rate of the augmentations as well as the limited effectiveness of the enhancements themselves.
The ODSTs were then reorganised based on the ORION program but that doesn't mean that they received the same augmentations. ORION was shut down precisely because the enhancements caused issues.

There is nothing in canon that proves that ODSTs are more augmented than their fellow marines.
Improvements from the Orion project were used to create Spartans. All that I have brought is a canon to a greater or lesser extent. Catalog says it refers to datapads with distrust. However, in my example, there is nothing that could be called the UNSC propaganda. It describes the actions of UNSC, no more. Again, Ilovebees is a canon in those places where it does not find contradictions (this is mainly the wrong mention of a slip-space engine).

Orion was a super soldier project. Therefore, ODST received some of its achievements, which allow to transfer some of the resources to them. Everywhere it is written that Orion created a super soldier. ODST are compared to Spartans.

At least it gives us the opportunity to judge that ODST is not ordinary people. Also in the Orion project, regeneration was applied, which we can get in HALO odst. ODST has reflexes at 0.075 milliseconds in comics. Later, third-generation Spartans were created, who did not receive defects, which means that Orion project augmentations worked (at least their children could live normally).

https://i.postimg.cc/tCvmQKq4/RCO095.jpg

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On Earth-like gravity, an Unggoy's centre-mass would make contact in some ~.45 seconds; this means Romes was capable of timing precise headshots to the Grunts around the clock in less than half a second.

In other words, his firing intervals and response time can bulls-eye six enemies positioned in all directions within his motion tracker range. This would make for a mean response time of 75 milliseconds for each target with a 800RPM rate-of-fire using 2 semi-automatic magnums; grossly beyond the capabilities of any real-world marksmen or gunslinger alike. In neuroscience, the consensus regarding the upper-limit of human stimuli response times borders within a range edging 100 milliseconds to merely perform tasks such as pinching a ruler or pressing a button - let alone targeting multiple targets with numerous displacements!

This Halo: Helljumper comic has certainly shown an amusing set of feats. If there was any significant reason for the affirms within the community of marine neural interfaces enhancing their users to any degree, this series is definitely a catalyst for those claims.
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Collapsing a notably thick sliding door panel. For even a common stainless steel or aluminium-framed apparatus, the stresses imparted on Taylor's leg would be immense; especially considering the lack of structural weaknesses an offset hinged door would provide:
https://i.postimg.cc/43vQgQmB/ODST-ODST-ODST.png
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Yet, he continues his search - uninterrupted of any endured blunt-force trauma. This may give at least some substance as to how he a few other marines managed to overturn a 3.5 tonne M12 Warthog on Halo 3: ODST's Uplift Reserve, but I digress.

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Leaping over an Elite. Take note of how Dutch, fully adorned in ODST BDU, seems to casually rival, or even surpass, Javier Sotomayor's 2.45 meter high-jump world record (given how analogous it is to the average Sangheili height):
https://i.postimg.cc/52TR0g9J/ODST-DUTCH.png
I don't believe the ODST's are augmented in the same sense the Spartans are; possibly a light steroid to boost muscle retention (or rather keeping it lean and not exceeding to bulky) and mass. But they do not get augmentations like the Ceramic Ossification or Capillary surgeries. So in a sense they DO have augmentations, but they're basic muscle builders most likely to keep them from getting weakened by prolonged space travel and nothing more than that. So I'm not sure if you could call those 'augments'.
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
There is nothing in canon that says odsts are augmented.Nothing bungie or 343 have done even says it
All that I have brought is a canon.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
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Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
Model ORION called something obsolete with respect to the Spartans.
ODST were augmented after the birth of the second-generation Spartans (in almost 10 years).

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ODSTs are compared to Spartans because they are the second best fighting force of Humanity, it doesn't mean that they are augmented.
They are compared to Spartans, as heirs of the Orion program.

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The Data Pads and ilovebees are in a grey area of canon, but regardless none of them make the claim that ODSTs are augmented (nowhere in ilovebees is this even remotely the case).
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James J: Nobody's like Gladys (giggles) When they canceled the program they split us up.
Jan: Us...?
James J: Spartans. Spartan 1 point 0.
Jan: (sarcastic) Sure, dad. You were an 'elite commando' with 'metal bones' and a flamethrower attachment that the marines dropped in when the tac-nukes weren't enough.
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Please tell me you did not just use a gameplay mechanic to make a point. First of all health regeneration is very common in FPS games but are not supposed to reflect lore. Second there isn't any regeneration in Halo ODST as we use health packs to regen HP.
With this kind of argument I could make the claim that ODSTs can throw grenades higher and further than Spartans because we can in the game.

This game mechanic is described in the canon (in particular in the game manual) and is called "endurance". Yes, serious injuries heal much longer than short cuts, and no, I do not perceive it as a canon, but I say that it has confirmation in the canon. In particular, I think that regeneration will be much slower.

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Comic feat calculations always have a degree of unreliability as the artists can get away with a lot of creative freedom. Outlier feats are also a thing you know.
Especially, if to consider the quote about speed of falling. No, we are seriously shown superhuman abilities (to survive TWO HAMMOND HAMMERS CAN NOT BE EACH OF A SPARTAN).
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By 3rd generation I suppose you mean Spartan 3s. Why do you bring them up? The augmentation could still only safely be given to a select genetic group and had to be children.
Are you talking about Spartan 1.1s? It is explained that due to their parents' augmentations, they had to receive injections in order to ensure normal growth without defects which had the side effect of giving them above baseline human abilities yet still below their ORION parents. Regardless this is once again non-adults being augmented meaning that the same enhancements would not necessarily be safe for a full grown human.
However, their skills just include regeneration, strength, speed. Even enhanced hearing and sense of balance. Comics definitely make sense.
The children of Orion also remain secret.

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Augmentations on full adults wasn't restated as a program until 2550 during the early phases of the Spartan 4 program when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This is not confirmed anywhere in the canon of which I read. Give a quote.
ORION was considered obsolete because ORION was a failure. It had nothing to do with being supplanted by the Spartan 2 program.
There is nowhere in canon that indicated that the technology to augment full adults was perfected before the Spartan 4 program (10 years after S2s, where are you even getting this?)
No they are compared to Spartans because ODST are the best non-augmented humans special forces, the ones that used to sent for the toughest jobs, until the Spartan 2s were created.
Janissary is giving a non-serious description of Spartans, she isn't taking about ODSTs.
It doesn't matter what its called, you still use medkits to heal hence when you take dmg you are losing health.
Many characters can have insane feats In comics which are not friendly to the lore, look at Lasky hitting an Elite with a shotgun causing it to visibly recoil backwards and cough blood in Escalations. Or I can talk about Spartan high end feats in the novels which would put them at 10 tonners, which no one really takes seriously.
I just gave you reasons why in canon neither the Spartan 3 and Spartan 1.1 augmentations can be used on full adults. You also make the point that they were secret so how would the ODST branch get their hands on those enhancements?
I do not have a direct quote however Halopedia claims tis info can be found in the Official Spartan Field Manual pg 87.

To sum up, you do not have concrete proof that ODSTs are augmented and have at best circumstantial evidence. At most this is a theory but not a fact.
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The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
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Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
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Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
So? You are proving my point.
If ONI was experimenting with limited enhancing adult-grade augmentations in 2550 it is very unlikely that ODSTs were augmented as a whole prior to that.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
Nope. In this case, similar experiments were carried out earlier. ONI is one of many organizations.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
Nope. In this case, similar experiments were carried out earlier. ONI is one of many organizations.
Of which you have no proof that they were.
ONI way be one of many organisations but they were always the ones that dabbled with super soldier programs.
ORION Phase 1, ORION Phase 2, Spartan 1.1, Spartan 2, Spartan 3, Spartan 4, all of their augmentations were made by ONI and up until post-2552 they were a tightly kept secret. There is absolutely no way that a branch as large of the ODST would receive significant standard issue augmentation especially considering that full-adult enhancements were not perfected until the end of the war.
Nowhere is it stated in canon that ODSTs are all augmented. The Reach Data pads are considered unreliable as per Catalogue/343 and even then it isn't explicitly claimed that their received enhancements. ORION's augmentations at that point in time had side effects serious enough that the project was shutdown and resources were moved to begin work on Spartan 2s which are very different. No legitimate military branch would use these enhancements, and that's no including the fact that ORION was top secret.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
Nope. In this case, similar experiments were carried out earlier. ONI is one of many organizations.
Of which you have no proof that they were.
ONI way be one of many organisations but they were always the ones that dabbled with super soldier programs.
ORION Phase 1, ORION Phase 2, Spartan 1.1, Spartan 2, Spartan 3, Spartan 4, all of their augmentations were made by ONI and up until post-2552 they were a tightly kept secret. There is absolutely no way that a branch as large of the ODST would receive significant standard issue augmentation especially considering that full-adult enhancements were not perfected until the end of the war.
Nowhere is it stated in canon that ODSTs are all augmented. The Reach Data pads are considered unreliable as per Catalogue/343 and even then it isn't explicitly claimed that their received enhancements. ORION's augmentations at that point in time had side effects serious enough that the project was shutdown and resources were moved to begin work on Spartan 2s which are very different. No legitimate military branch would use these enhancements, and that's no including the fact that ORION was top secret.
Glad others have continued bashing their head against this particular brick wall because it drove me to the verge of a lot of undiplomatic language.

OP is asking others for quotations to prove a negative, which is notoriously difficult to do while clutching at a handful of either non-specific quotations (e.g the "ODSTs and other non-augmented" - which can easily be read as including ODSTs as well as OPs interpretation, and the "Orion model" which I've already tried to argue is merely a reference to using volunteers rather than anything else) or, in the case of the Datapads/ilovebees, of questionable, at best, canonicity

Additionally: thinking about it: 'augmented' is a relatively non-specific phrase. Perhaps ODSTs receive special vitamin supplements to ensure they have strong bones and metabolise more Vitamin D and Calcium: does that count as an augmentation? I'd argue no because it just makes sense that the UNSC would give something like that to them (much as the Royal navy gave its men limes for vitamin d to ward off scurvy).

Honestly not sure what further ground there is left for in this discussion as I'm not sure we're going to find a middle ground
MorseyBaby wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
Glad others have continued bashing their head against this particular brick wall because it drove me to the verge of a lot of undiplomatic language.

OP is asking others for quotations to prove a negative, which is notoriously difficult to do while clutching at a handful of either non-specific quotations (e.g the "ODSTs and other non-augmented" - which can easily be read as including ODSTs as well as OPs interpretation, and the "Orion model" which I've already tried to argue is merely a reference to using volunteers rather than anything else) or, in the case of the Datapads/ilovebees, of questionable, at best, canonicity

Additionally: thinking about it: 'augmented' is a relatively non-specific phrase. Perhaps ODSTs receive special vitamin supplements to ensure they have strong bones and metabolise more Vitamin D and Calcium: does that count as an augmentation? I'd argue no because it just makes sense that the UNSC would give something like that to them (much as the Royal navy gave its men limes for vitamin d to ward off scurvy).

Honestly not sure what further ground there is left for in this discussion as I'm not sure we're going to find a middle ground
I want to note that the quote says various. Varios - already implies that there are some augmented special forces. It would be illogical, as the mention of Spartans in contexts.
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"The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers (ODST) and various non-augmented special forces units remain active as of 2558. User Grizzlei's analysis of the their role and operational niche is accurate."
It is also not explicitly about volunteers, as ODST is referred to as a project using an older model. ODSTs existed previously (according to halo waypoint).
Augmentation is an addition. Some changes in the body. Adding something that wasn't there before. For example, an increase in bone content of titanium is higher than normal. Yes, it certainly does not give much, but it is at least something.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
The SPARTAN-IV program has its roots in 2550, when ONI began to experiment with adding limited enhancements to select groups of special operators.
This was another experiment in the framework of ONI. That’s all. Have you seen the visual effects of heavy damage? Here they are: https://youtu.be/yWtYsbzfTk0 Yes, it becomes more difficult to regenerate.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also referred to as "iron bones." Of course, this is not what the Spartans have, but it makes it possible to survive a fall from several meters in height or survive two blows of a brute hammer when the rifle breaks.
You are making the mistake of assuming that the ODSTs basing themselves on ORION means that they undergo augmentation as well. There isn't anything to back up the idea that ODSTs received augmentations based on ORION. More likely the ODSTs were reorganised into a Special Forces program that undertook similar missions to ORION personnel.
I'll reiterate once again that in terms of enhancements the ORION program failed as the results were deemed unsatisfactory and it wasn't until Dr Catherine's Spartan 2s that significant progress was made.
No, ONI first started experimenting with limited enhancements on select operators and then after tried to create Spartans without the need for Mjolnir. These are two different things.
The fact that ONI was only in the stages of experimenting with full adult augmentation makes it unlikely that the ODSTs all received significant enhancement.
Why did you quote my previous post, change the language, and then not write a response?
For example, we can start sending people to the moon. This does not mean that we have never done this (I doubt it). We can send people as tourists or as astronauts. Same here.
We can start experiments with the addition of tank armor. Experiments are something that begins.
Nope. In this case, similar experiments were carried out earlier. ONI is one of many organizations.
Of which you have no proof that they were.
ONI way be one of many organisations but they were always the ones that dabbled with super soldier programs.
ORION Phase 1, ORION Phase 2, Spartan 1.1, Spartan 2, Spartan 3, Spartan 4, all of their augmentations were made by ONI and up until post-2552 they were a tightly kept secret. There is absolutely no way that a branch as large of the ODST would receive significant standard issue augmentation especially considering that full-adult enhancements were not perfected until the end of the war.
Nowhere is it stated in canon that ODSTs are all augmented. The Reach Data pads are considered unreliable as per Catalogue/343 and even then it isn't explicitly claimed that their received enhancements. ORION's augmentations at that point in time had side effects serious enough that the project was shutdown and resources were moved to begin work on Spartan 2s which are very different. No legitimate military branch would use these enhancements, and that's no including the fact that ORION was top secret.
And phase of Orion 3 ODST... Orion was secret, but ODST began to be based on his model.
ODST is a small branch. Many developments (such as bubble shields or gungir laser) could be used by all ODST freely and they had full access to them. Even, Marines. Spartan laser, by the way, is more expensive than four warts. On the background of augmentation of Orion look dull (the same Mjollnir is more expensive than just the "long sword").
The improvements to Orion after the creation of Spartans 2 were most likely safe. Based on the datapad ODST began to be based on this model only after the creation of Spartans 2. Again, there is the following quote regarding endurance from the manual to the game:
Quote:
Your ODST uniform and body armor are similar to those of a standard UNSC Marine except you are also equipped with a full-head helmet that, in addition to offering improved protection from ballistic and energy projectiles, carries a sophisticated, tactical heads-up display (HUD). The HUD not only shows your current loadout of grenades, weapons, and ammunition, it also provides real-time monitoring of your two most important biometrics: stamina and base body health. While the method of calculating these metrics is classified, your HUD makes them easy to understand: reddening around the edges of the HUD means your stamina is low; reduction of a narrow bar near the top of the HUD means your base health is depleted. Stamina recovers automatically as long as you are not taking hostile fire; but base health only improves with medical intervention via combat aid kits, or “medkits” for short. Fortunately, you have been trained in the use of civilian medkits—essential knowledge in urban terrain far from expeditionary medical facilities and Navy corpsmen. While your HUD is designed for efficient, peripheral observation, new ODST recruits are encouraged to actively monitor their biometrics and adjust their fighting style accordingly.
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
The sources have been refuted or we've pointed out you're misquoting and/or, in our opinion, misinterpreting the quotations you're using selectively.

Datapads - dealt with (questionable accuracy within canon/canonicity and potential for misquoting
Ilovebees - dealt with (questionable canonicity)
It should be noted that in the quoted "I Love Bees" segments, Jan is being highly sarcastic, James is a Spartan 1, not an ODST, and the cop is essentially repeating rumors. The canonically questionable "Spartan 1.1's" are not ODST either, but children of Spartan 1's who were moderately augmented.

The first article you link also clearly denotes ODST as non-augmented personnel.
MorseyBaby wrote:
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
The sources have been refuted or we've pointed out you're misquoting and/or, in our opinion, misinterpreting the quotations you're using selectively.

Datapads - dealt with (questionable accuracy within canon/canonicity and potential for misquoting
Ilovebees - dealt with (questionable canonicity)
None of my quotes have been refuted. Otherwise, provide a consistent refutation with my answers to it, which must also be refuted.
It should be noted that in the quoted "I Love Bees" segments, Jan is being highly sarcastic, James is a Spartan 1, not an ODST, and the cop is essentially repeating rumors. The canonically questionable "Spartan 1.1's" are not ODST either, but children of Spartan 1's who were moderately augmented.

The first article you link also clearly denotes ODST as non-augmented personnel.
He was a "marines dropped with steel bones.".
Your statement is false. Otherwise, argue that ODST refers to unauthorized staff. For example, "other non-augmented special forces units" or "like all other non-augmented special forces units".

I know that they are their children. But if Orion's augmentations were passed to them, and ODST BASED on his model, then they would also receive a regeneration, which the manual mentions.
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
First of all where are you getting this date of 2526?
Second of all where is it stated that ODSTs are definitively augmented?
Which Halo developer has confirmed that they are enhanced and where did they say this?

ODSTs may be a small division in comparaison to other marine personnel (which makes sense as they are the best of the best) however that does not make their numbers small. In Halo First strike Lord Hood says: "Those 'freaks' have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs". This means that the branch is composed of much more than 3 division (one division is roughly 15000 soldiers). That's a lot of people to augment with what was just a few years ago considered experimental top secret enhancements with side effect serious enough to shut down the program using them.
So what if the ODSTs used Spartan Lasers? It wasn't a common weapon, and while it was once considered ruinously expensive the costs were eventually reduced to extraordinarily expensive. Spartans were such a tiny unit during the war, hence its logical to assume that they didn't hog all the cool toys.

Datapad 11 never claims that ODSTs are augmented, you are using your own interpretation of the sentence to claim a 'fact'. Not to mention this is also very low on the canon hierarchy.
Hunt the Truth doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced, it only claims that augmentation is a known science.
The Manual for Halo 3:ODST doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced. Your interpretation of this endurance mechanic wouldn't make sense anyways since Halo CE calls it health and Master Chief is not only physiologically superior to ODSTs but also wears MJOLNIR. So unless you are trying to claim that ODSTs are superior to armoured Spartans then this particular point is decided.
Catalog never claims ODSTs are enhanced.
Ilovebees doesn't claim ODSTs are augmented. The passage you provided shows Janissary talking about Spartans not ODSTs.

You can only claim that something is proof if the evidence has only one possible interpretation. The fact that I and others to not agree with your vision and made our own arguments shows how rocky your proposal is.
The problem here isn't that your trying to convince people that ODSTs are augmented, its that you are trying to claim that it is fact when it is anything but.
Like I said earlier, at most you have evidence to suggest that ODSTs may be augmented personnel but no direct statements that proves your claim. This my friend, is called a theory.
He was a "marines dropped with steel bones.".
I strongly suggest you actually listen to the Axon Clips, before trying to quote them. Jan was being sarcastic; quite clearly, with the mention of "flamethrowers attached to arms".

As has been attempted to be explained to you, the ODST branch of the Marines was based on ORION structurally, not exactly. They replaced ORION operatives as SpecOps personnel, not as augmented super soldiers. Yet even then, the first ODST iteration was introduced in 2129, 200 years before the ORION project.

From the ODST article on Halopedia (several sources linked at the bottom):

Quote:
The first major combat re-emergence of the ODSTs occurred in 2490 during the beginnings of the civil conflict between the Unified Earth Government and the Insurrectionists. Using the members of the ORION Project as exemplary models,[19] the reputation of the ODST, as well as their training, was restored and enhanced as time passed. For the years leading up to 2525, the ODST conducted high-risk operations against the Insurrectionists, to either stop the enemy before they could carry out attacks against supporters, and officials of the Unified Earth Government or to cut off major suppliers to the Insurrectionists
There is not one bit in that article - meaning there is not one bit of supporting canonical evidence - that ODST are augmented. Not even slightly. I urge you to read that page; perhaps have it translated into your native language, as I'm picking up some language barriers that may be issue here. That, and not rely on non-canon or canonically questionable elements peripheral to the Halo Universe.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
First of all where are you getting this date of 2526?
Second of all where is it stated that ODSTs are definitively augmented?
Which Halo developer has confirmed that they are enhanced and where did they say this?

ODSTs may be a small division in comparaison to other marine personnel (which makes sense as they are the best of the best) however that does not make their numbers small. In Halo First strike Lord Hood says: "Those 'freaks' have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs". This means that the branch is composed of much more than 3 division (one division is roughly 15000 soldiers). That's a lot of people to augment with what was just a few years ago considered experimental top secret enhancements with side effect serious enough to shut down the program using them.
So what if the ODSTs used Spartan Lasers? It wasn't a common weapon, and while it was once considered ruinously expensive the costs were eventually reduced to extraordinarily expensive. Spartans were such a tiny unit during the war, hence its logical to assume that they didn't hog all the cool toys.

Datapad 11 never claims that ODSTs are augmented, you are using your own interpretation of the sentence to claim a 'fact'. Not to mention this is also very low on the canon hierarchy.
Hunt the Truth doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced, it only claims that augmentation is a known science.
The Manual for Halo 3:ODST doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced. Your interpretation of this endurance mechanic wouldn't make sense anyways since Halo CE calls it health and Master Chief is not only physiologically superior to ODSTs but also wears MJOLNIR. So unless you are trying to claim that ODSTs are superior to armoured Spartans then this particular point is decided.
Catalog never claims ODSTs are enhanced.
Ilovebees doesn't claim ODSTs are augmented. The passage you provided shows Janissary talking about Spartans not ODSTs.

You can only claim that something is proof if the evidence has only one possible interpretation. The fact that I and others to not agree with your vision and made our own arguments shows how rocky your proposal is.
The problem here isn't that your trying to convince people that ODSTs are augmented, its that you are trying to claim that it is fact when it is anything but.
Like I said earlier, at most you have evidence to suggest that ODSTs may be augmented personnel but no direct statements that proves your claim. This my friend, is called a theory.
And I'd argue a tentative, at best, one at that.

He was a "marines dropped with steel bones.".
I strongly suggest you actually listen to the Axon Clips, before trying to quote them. Jan was being sarcastic; quite clearly, with the mention of "flamethrowers attached to arms".

As has been attempted to be explained to you, the ODST branch of the Marines was based on ORION structurally, not exactly. They replaced ORION operatives as SpecOps personnel, not as augmented super soldiers. Yet even then, the first ODST iteration was introduced in 2129, 200 years before the ORION project.

From the ODST article on Halopedia (several sources linked at the bottom):

Quote:
The first major combat re-emergence of the ODSTs occurred in 2490 during the beginnings of the civil conflict between the Unified Earth Government and the Insurrectionists. Using the members of the ORION Project as exemplary models,[19] the reputation of the ODST, as well as their training, was restored and enhanced as time passed. For the years leading up to 2525, the ODST conducted high-risk operations against the Insurrectionists, to either stop the enemy before they could carry out attacks against supporters, and officials of the Unified Earth Government or to cut off major suppliers to the Insurrectionists
There is not one bit in that article - meaning there is not one bit of supporting canonical evidence - that ODST are augmented. Not even slightly. I urge you to read that page; perhaps have it translated into your native language, as I'm picking up some language barriers that may be issue here. That, and not rely on non-canon or canonically questionable elements peripheral to the Halo Universe.
"Exemplary models" is an horrifyingly wooly phrase which I would be most inclined to interpret as:
  1. Volunteer special forces
  2. Some Orion members still in active service served as exemplary ODST troops
  3. Highly selective: i.e. only the best of the best
You seem to be taking any reference to Orion as explicity its augmentations whereas in fact it is definitely much wider than that as a programme
MorseyBaby wrote:
"Exemplary models" is an horrifyingly wooly phrase which I would be most inclined to interpret as:
  1. Volunteer special forces
  2. Some Orion members still in active service served as exemplary ODST troops
  3. Highly selective: i.e. only the best of the best
You seem to be taking any reference to Orion as explicity its augmentations whereas in fact it is definitely much wider than that as a programme
Woah, hold up Morsey; I'm arguing against ODST being augmented. In the Halopedia article, when they say that the ODST used ORION as "exemplary models," to me that means they looked at what Orion tried to achieve and said "Right, we're going to do that, but without all the fancy augmentations." Very similar to how the Spartan II's looked to the Grecian Spartans as exemplary models, but didn't recreate the Agoge by-the-letter.
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