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What other augmentations ODST get from the Orion?

OP ThreeCypress929

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He was a "marines dropped with steel bones.".
I strongly suggest you actually listen to the Axon Clips, before trying to quote them. Jan was being sarcastic; quite clearly, with the mention of "flamethrowers attached to arms".

As has been attempted to be explained to you, the ODST branch of the Marines was based on ORION structurally, not exactly. They replaced ORION operatives as SpecOps personnel, not as augmented super soldiers. Yet even then, the first ODST iteration was introduced in 2129, 200 years before the ORION project.

From the ODST article on Halopedia (several sources linked at the bottom):
The point is not that they simply took some kind of model, but that the effectiveness of the Orion model and the Spartans is compared here.

Naturally she speaks of this satirically. Iron bones do not mean that they are made in the literal sense of iron, but it means that they are simply more durable.

And yes, I read halopedia before writing all this.

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There is not one bit in that article - meaning there is not one bit of supporting canonical evidence - that ODST are augmented. Not even slightly. I urge you to read that page; perhaps have it translated into your native language, as I'm picking up some language barriers that may be issue here. That, and not rely on non-canon or canonically questionable elements peripheral to the Halo Universe.
An article from the fan encyclopedia cannot serve as canonical evidence. However, we have the quote:
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The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers, commonly known as ‘ODST,’ is a volunteer force within the UNSC Marine Corps, operationally managed by the Naval Special Weapons (NAVSPECWEP) division. ODST personnel are aggressively screened, and their brutal training program generally weeds out all but a handful of candidates. Early iterations of the ODST were created by the United Nations in 2129. By the Interplanetary War in 2163, the role of orbitally deployed Marine shock troopers had become a proper element of the newly founded UNSC Marine Corps. Since then, they have been a critical component of humanity’s military power, particularly during the Insurrection and the Human-Covenant War, arguably second only to the Spartan super-soldier projects.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
First of all where are you getting this date of 2526?
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its a11 just math to them not with numbers but with symbols that change when you look at them because they want them to…
<< 2526 >>
>> A concession from the Majority to the Minority
Keeping the SPARTANS focused on maintaining and/or reestablishing infrastructure is no longer prudent. The ODST, although based on the ORION model, should prove to be an adequate replacement. >>
>> Although, by necessity, this redistribution of resources must be gradual, it is now the Majority opinion that redistribution is essential.
SPARTANS represent a quantifiable concentration of coherence, and to this end they must be applied to the current difficulty as a fulcrum. >>
<< A concession from the Minority to the Majority
Now, at last, the time has come for this Assembly to involve itself in the metaphysical. <<
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Which Halo developer has confirmed that they are enhanced and where did they say this?
Catalog.
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"The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers (ODST) and various non-augmented special forces units remain active as of 2558. User Grizzlei's analysis of the their role and operational niche is accurate."

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ODSTs may be a small division in comparaison to other marine personnel (which makes sense as they are the best of the best) however that does not make their numbers small. In Halo First strike Lord Hood says: "Those 'freaks' have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs". This means that the branch is composed of much more than 3 division (one division is roughly 15000 soldiers). That's a lot of people to augment with what was just a few years ago considered experimental top secret enhancements with side effect serious enough to shut down the program using them.
So what if the ODSTs used Spartan Lasers? It wasn't a common weapon, and while it was once considered ruinously expensive the costs were eventually reduced to extraordinarily expensive. Spartans were such a tiny unit during the war, hence its logical to assume that they didn't hog all the cool toys.
Are you sure that ODST yourself knew about their augmentation? As is clear from the manual, the development itself and the way in which it removes their biometrics was a secret.

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The Manual for Halo 3:ODST doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced. Your interpretation of this endurance mechanic wouldn't make sense anyways since Halo CE calls it health and Master Chief is not only physiologically superior to ODSTs but also wears MJOLNIR. So unless you are trying to claim that ODSTs are superior to armoured Spartans then this particular point is decided.
You forget that SPI armor was originally designed for ODST. ODST armor is much worse, but it is best armor from standard ODSTs. Besides, Chief couldn't get a number of augmentations because of their incompatibility or because he was a child. Again, the neural interface and the biogel are official explanations for the regeneration of the Spartans and HUD. The speed of regeneration is clearly not a canon, but an element of gameplay. I would take as a canon the speed of regeneration spartan 1.1.

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Like I said earlier, at most you have evidence to suggest that ODSTs may be augmented personnel but no direct statements that proves your claim. This my friend, is called a theory.
I agree with that.
The point is not that they simply took some kind of model, but that the effectiveness of the Orion model and the Spartans is compared here.
ORION and the Spartan II's are linked, yes. The SPARTAN project picked up where ORION left off; the ODST's did not. They only used ORION as operational inspiration. Meaning that they achieved what the Spartan I's did, not what they were.

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Naturally she speaks of this satirically.
Naturally, and yet you're taking what she said literally. And somehow trying to apply it to ODST.

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And yes, I read halopedia before writing all this.
I doubt that.

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An article from the fan encyclopedia cannot serve as canonical evidence.
Evidence #1 as to why I doubt that you read Halopedia before writing this. Not to mention that Halopedia is far more than a "fan encyclopedia," has been recognized by 343 as a good resource for Halo information, and last but not least they source everything with canon examples, right down to page numbers in novels. If you're going to discredit Halopedia, you have to show how the information is wrong.

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However, we have the quote:
That quote does not support your argument at all.

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Catalog.
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"The Orbital Drop Shock Troopers (ODST) and various non-augmented special forces units remain active as of 2558. User Grizzlei's analysis of the their role and operational niche is accurate."
Do you know what non-augmented means? Nothing in that quote says that ODST are augmented.

You forget that SPI armor was originally designed for ODST.No, it wasn't. ODSTs tested early version of the SPI armor, but it was not intended for their use. Ghosts of Onyx pg. 164 states that ODST field tested the armor, but were unable to get it to work.

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Again, the neural interface and the biogel are official explanations for the regeneration of the Spartans and HUD.
Every soldier has a neural interface. This technology is so commonplace that it is not considered augmentation.
MorseyBaby wrote:
EvilKeny28 wrote:
Could we get a Monitor in here as this is just going around in circles. ODSTs as far as we are told from canon, Bungie, and 343i, they are not augmented. You are using Ilovebees as your only true source of “proof” but it is in a grey area and only parts of it are canon. I don’t know how many people need to tell you they are not augmented and are not “heirs” to the Orion project, the Spartan-II program may be considered an “heir” to the Orion project because Dr. Halsey used research of the Orion project combined with her own to make amends on it’s failures and thus she ultimately decided that kids were needed for the augmentations. Of course there were more extensive augmentations included in the Spartan-II program than the Orion project that resulted in deaths and washouts of the program but the ones that survived went on to achieve a lot, prime example is the Master Chief.
No matter how many people say the opposite. If they do not refute several SOURCES (datapad 11, Hunt of the truth, manual halo 3: ODST, Catalog). I only need one person if he has proof or he is a halo developer.
ODST were augmented in 2526. After Spartans 2.
However, the halo developer has essentially confirmed that ODST receive augmentation. Otherwise, another developer should his words opinion a mistake.
First of all where are you getting this date of 2526?
Second of all where is it stated that ODSTs are definitively augmented?
Which Halo developer has confirmed that they are enhanced and where did they say this?

ODSTs may be a small division in comparaison to other marine personnel (which makes sense as they are the best of the best) however that does not make their numbers small. In Halo First strike Lord Hood says: "Those 'freaks' have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs". This means that the branch is composed of much more than 3 division (one division is roughly 15000 soldiers). That's a lot of people to augment with what was just a few years ago considered experimental top secret enhancements with side effect serious enough to shut down the program using them.
So what if the ODSTs used Spartan Lasers? It wasn't a common weapon, and while it was once considered ruinously expensive the costs were eventually reduced to extraordinarily expensive. Spartans were such a tiny unit during the war, hence its logical to assume that they didn't hog all the cool toys.

Datapad 11 never claims that ODSTs are augmented, you are using your own interpretation of the sentence to claim a 'fact'. Not to mention this is also very low on the canon hierarchy.
Hunt the Truth doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced, it only claims that augmentation is a known science.
The Manual for Halo 3:ODST doesn't claim ODSTs are enhanced. Your interpretation of this endurance mechanic wouldn't make sense anyways since Halo CE calls it health and Master Chief is not only physiologically superior to ODSTs but also wears MJOLNIR. So unless you are trying to claim that ODSTs are superior to armoured Spartans then this particular point is decided.
Catalog never claims ODSTs are enhanced.
Ilovebees doesn't claim ODSTs are augmented. The passage you provided shows Janissary talking about Spartans not ODSTs.

You can only claim that something is proof if the evidence has only one possible interpretation. The fact that I and others to not agree with your vision and made our own arguments shows how rocky your proposal is.
The problem here isn't that your trying to convince people that ODSTs are augmented, its that you are trying to claim that it is fact when it is anything but.
Like I said earlier, at most you have evidence to suggest that ODSTs may be augmented personnel but no direct statements that proves your claim. This my friend, is called a theory.
And I'd argue a tentative, at best, one at that.

He was a "marines dropped with steel bones.".
I strongly suggest you actually listen to the Axon Clips, before trying to quote them. Jan was being sarcastic; quite clearly, with the mention of "flamethrowers attached to arms".

As has been attempted to be explained to you, the ODST branch of the Marines was based on ORION structurally, not exactly. They replaced ORION operatives as SpecOps personnel, not as augmented super soldiers. Yet even then, the first ODST iteration was introduced in 2129, 200 years before the ORION project.

From the ODST article on Halopedia (several sources linked at the bottom):

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The first major combat re-emergence of the ODSTs occurred in 2490 during the beginnings of the civil conflict between the Unified Earth Government and the Insurrectionists. Using the members of the ORION Project as exemplary models,[19] the reputation of the ODST, as well as their training, was restored and enhanced as time passed. For the years leading up to 2525, the ODST conducted high-risk operations against the Insurrectionists, to either stop the enemy before they could carry out attacks against supporters, and officials of the Unified Earth Government or to cut off major suppliers to the Insurrectionists
There is not one bit in that article - meaning there is not one bit of supporting canonical evidence - that ODST are augmented. Not even slightly. I urge you to read that page; perhaps have it translated into your native language, as I'm picking up some language barriers that may be issue here. That, and not rely on non-canon or canonically questionable elements peripheral to the Halo Universe.
"Exemplary models" is an horrifyingly wooly phrase which I would be most inclined to interpret as:
  1. Volunteer special forces
  2. Some Orion members still in active service served as exemplary ODST troops
  3. Highly selective: i.e. only the best of the best
You seem to be taking any reference to Orion as explicity its augmentations whereas in fact it is definitely much wider than that as a programme
In this link is the opposition of the model of Orion and the Spartans. Moreover, the Orion model is indicated as something worse than the Spartans, but with ODST it is something that can be a substitute. That is, there is a comparison not of one model, but of the effectiveness of two projects. Literally "although ODST got its model from Orion, they can still serve as a replacement for the Spartans." Although ODSTs are based on a model from an outdated project, they can be an adequate replacement. No matter how many models - it will always be worse. ODST simply cannot be worse than the general structure of Orion, which involves the creation of super-soldiers. We also have a statement that they have always been the best of the best.

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ORION and the Spartan II's are linked, yes. The SPARTAN project picked up where ORION left off; the ODST's did not. They only used ORION as operational inspiration. Meaning that they achieved what the Spartan I's , not what they were.
Unfounded statement.
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Evidence #1 as to why I doubt that you read Halopedia before writing this. Not to mention that Halopedia is far more than a "fan encyclopedia," has been recognized by 343 as a good resource for Halo information, and last but not least they source everything with canon examples, right down to page numbers in novels. If you're going to discredit Halopedia, you have to show how the information is wrong.
I did not claim this. However, you use the fact of the absence of something, or, as evidence of non-existence. This is a logical error.

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That quote does not support your argument at all.
Two unfounded statement.
They finds the explanation in the canon, as well as endurance with biogel. I did not use it as an augmentation argument.

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Every soldier has a neural interface. This technology is so commonplace that it is not considered augmentation.
MorseyBaby wrote:
"Exemplary models" is an horrifyingly wooly phrase which I would be most inclined to interpret as:
  1. Volunteer special forces
  2. Some Orion members still in active service served as exemplary ODST troops
  3. Highly selective: i.e. only the best of the best
OP seems to be taking any reference to Orion as explicity its augmentations whereas in fact it is definitely much wider than that as a programme
Woah, hold up Morsey; I'm arguing against ODST being augmented. In the Halopedia article, when they say that the ODST used ORION as "exemplary models," to me that means they looked at what Orion tried to achieve and said "Right, we're going to do that, but without all the fancy augmentations." Very similar to how the Spartan II's looked to the Grecian Spartans as exemplary models, but didn't recreate the Agoge by-the-letter.
Apologies the You was to OP, apologies for confusion - will edit original
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Like I said earlier, at most you have evidence to suggest that ODSTs may be augmented personnel but no direct statements that proves your claim. This my friend, is called a theory.
I agree with that.
I think you are missing the point me and others are making about the ilovebees passage: Janissary is not talking about ODSTs, the quote has nothing to do with them. The 'Iron Bones' is a reference to Carbide Ossification that the Spartan 2s undergo. This had nothing to do with ODSTs.

Ah yes, I missed the date.
That said I agree with TheKiltdHeathen on the interpretation of the Datapad's statement. However I'll tell you this, if this was the first time being introduced to the ODSTs and there wasn't any other piece of lore about them I would have agreed with you. As it stands though this simply isn't enough to convince me do due my knowledge of the expanded lore.

Once again I have re-iterate that 343/Catalogue's statement does not claim that ODSTs are augmented. I'll admit that I understand how you came to that idea as the sentence can indeed be interpreted in such a way, yet it can just as easily be interpreted in the way me and others do. On its own this view doesn't hold much weight and would require real concrete proof in order to taken seriously.

It would be very difficult not to realise that one has been enhanced. Firstly the operation would be unable to be conducted without the person knowing as its an excruciating process. Secondly if these enhancements are worth anything then the ODSTs would most certainly notice a difference in their capabilities between before and after which would be very suspicious. Thirdly these enhancements would show up on a medical test meaning the expenses that would have to be made to cover all that up would be ludicrous. All in all what you are suggesting is impossible especially when the number of personnel is in the tens of thousands.
What's 'it'? What removes their biometrics?

As someone else explained SPI wasn't developed for ODSTs, they simply field tested it. The fact that we have never seen ODSTs use it makes it unlikely that they were never issued the armour, at least not as standard equipment. I'll note though that Catalogue does mention that the photoreactive technology saw limited but successful use in several special operations ODST units.

Chief was never limited in qualifying for augmentations because he was a child (its actually because they were children that their bodies could handle more powerful augmentations due to their physiological flexibility) it was because the other augmentations proposed were too lethal even for the Spartan 2s as Dr. Halsey had not yet perfected the technology.

You are correct about the regeneration mechanic.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
It would be very difficult not to realise that one has been enhanced. Firstly the operation would be unable to be conducted without the person knowing as its an excruciating process. Secondly if these enhancements are worth anything then the ODSTs would most certainly notice a difference in their capabilities between before and after which would be very suspicious. Thirdly these enhancements would show up on a medical test meaning the expenses that would have to be made to cover all that up would be ludicrous. All in all what you are suggesting is impossible especially when the number of personnel is in the tens of thousands.
What's 'it'? What removes their biometrics?

I am talking about this:

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The HUD not only shows your current loadout of grenades, weapons, and ammunition, it also provides real-time monitoring of your two most important biometrics: stamina and base body health. While the method of **calculating** these metrics is classified, your HUD makes them easy to understand: reddening around the edges of the HUD means your stamina is low; reduction of a narrow bar near the top of the HUD means your base health is depleted.
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They don't need augmentations because of the technology in an SOEIV.
I thought they were just less canonical than what covers them. In any case, the ODST will likely get a slight strengthening of bones and likely regeneration or muscle density. All this has been confirmed.
All indications are that the ODTS have received their augmentations since the beginning of the war with the Covenant.
Please don't post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or quote other users, you can edit your last post. Thanks
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