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Who are the Flood really?

OP M0ckingDrag0n

Why do people say the Flood are corrupted Precursors? Sure the Gravemind said it but why should we take his words as facts? I mean he already lied to the Didact once and on other multiple occasions
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Personally I don’t see why the Primordial would lie. What would he gain from lying? Nothing. What would he lose from telling the truth... nothing. It would be pointless for him/it (whatever you want to call the Primordial) to lie and add nothing positive to the story but in fact leave negativity as it would cause unnecessary confusion. At least that’s how I see it.
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Aren't the Gravemind and the Primordial the same entity though? Because Halopedia also states the Primordial transferred its consciousness into the Gravemind which would make the Primordial everything the Gravemind is.
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This is confirmed by the words of one of the authors that precursor destroyed his own thought (logic plague). One of them thought of the flood. The forerunners simply stabbed him in the back. It is known that the flood destroyed galaxies being the exact opposite of precursors.

Quote:
“Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness, a father's sins, passed to his son.”
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Aren't the Gravemind and the Primordial the same entity though? Because Halopedia also states the Primordial transferred its consciousness into the Gravemind which would make the Primordial everything the Gravemind is.
In a sense they are. The Primordial was killed by the Iso-Didact when he stuck him in a time bubble of sorts (I don't remember the exact terminology) and accelerated the Primordial's aging process until the Primordial eventually died. This took I think billions of relative years in that bubble.

But even though the Primordial died, technically he and the Gravemind are the same thing. As you put it, the consciousness was transferred. Thanks to neural physics, even if a Gravemind is killed, once a new Gravemind is formed, it possesses all the knowledge of the previous Gravemind. Since the Primordial is essentially the first Gravemind, he lives on in each successive Gravemind.
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Aren't the Gravemind and the Primordial the same entity though? Because Halopedia also states the Primordial transferred its consciousness into the Gravemind which would make the Primordial everything the Gravemind is.
In a sense they are. The Primordial was killed by the Iso-Didact when he stuck him in a time bubble of sorts (I don't remember the exact terminology) and accelerated the Primordial's aging process until the Primordial eventually died. This took I think billions of relative years in that bubble.

But even though the Primordial died, technically he and the Gravemind are the same thing. As you put it, the consciousness was transferred. Thanks to neural physics, even if a Gravemind is killed, once a new Gravemind is formed, it possesses all the knowledge of the previous Gravemind. Since the Primordial is essentially the first Gravemind, he lives on in each successive Gravemind.
Still we don't know for sure if the Flood really is what they say they are. Halopedia only says the Flood are corrupted Precursors because it's what the Gravemind/Primordial said but we don't really know if it's true especially when when there's just too much things that just don't add up to believe the Precursors actually went corrupt.
Why do people say the Flood are corrupted Precursors? Sure the Gravemind said it but why should we take his words as facts? I mean he already lied to the Didact once and on other multiple occasions

He also says this during Halo 3: "Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed."

Doesn't that mean his purpose is to be defeated? Because it would make sense if the Flood are actually the test for humanity that the Precursors talked about
There's a lot of nuance that people don't consider, because it contradicts what people perceive to be the surface-level story.
By my understanding, the Precursors are incorporeal, transient gods responsible for at least the life in the Milky Way Galaxy. They created races of biological avatars that they used to interact with their other creations. They cycled through these in sequence, explaining how they're able to be a variety of races, at a variety of technological levels, from bound to their worlds to intergalactic. The latest of these sets of biological avatars was the race that eventually became the Flood.

The Precursors created one specific race to attain the "Mantle" to help life in the galaxy to develop the way the Precursors intend it to, without them having to personally micro-manage it until the end of time. The race they created developed technologically until a group of them decided to go to the far end of the galaxy. There, this faction developed as the Precursors intended, and eventually came to be known as "Humans"

The other faction accidentally destroyed their homeworld in a stellar engineering accident. They also failed to meet the Precursors expectations, because this faction in their misunderstanding of what being a leader means, asserted their dominence by keeping the other races from their potential, instead of nurturing them to achieve it. This faction even went so far as to de-evolve races, relocate them to barren worlds on the far side of the galaxy so they could steal the other races' technology and planets. Possibly most extreme, is that this faction identified genetic traits they found admirable in other races, and genetically This faction came to be known as "Forerunners".

After the Forerunners found out that the Precursors had chosen Humanity to receive the Mantle, the Forerunners felt betrayed, because their ancestors had been promised the Mantle, and the Forerunners didn't recognize humanity as also being descendants of those same ancestors. So the Forerunners attempted to murder the Precursors, but all they could actually do was slaughter the Precursors' avatars, which didn't defend themselves, because the Precursors weren't truly in any danger. Some of the survivors of that race of avatars became the dust, and one of them became the Primordial, but the Precursors themselves, were still themselves.

The Flood was used as a tool to manipulate events and factions to the Precursors' desired ends. It first encounters humanity, testing their commitment to the role of guardian, which they pass by sacrificing a third of their worlds to produce an anti-Flood to save the rest of the galaxy. It is revealed that this effort didn't actually work, but that the Flood responded as if it did for the purpose of creating an illusion that Humanity had a cure, because with their Foresight, the Precursors knew that without such a "secret" the Forerunners would have exterminated humanity.

The reason the Precursors wait so long before having the Flood start using its greater abilities, such as the manipulation of Neural Physics, is because the Precursors themselves are adhering to the Mantle, and they don't eliminate the Forerunners until their society has reached its peak potential, which it does in the days leading up to the Halos firing.

The Flood is a villainous threat, because that's what the galaxy required to develop into what the Precursors want it to be. It's like a grand painting having dark areas, that look terrible from up close, but make other areas shine brighter, making something beautiful of the whole. As timeless beings, the Precursors perspective is significantly different than mortals'.
The Flood are Precursors made after they turned themselves into magic space dust because Halo lost it's good writers that knew where the boundaries were and knew that Halo would never work as some space fantasy nonsense.

The other definition of what the Flood are is that they were a swarm based enemy that hadn't been fully effective in it's use in video games until Halo 1 came around. AFter which they became increasingly poorly used in the game despite being touted as the big bad. By the time Halo 2 showed up (and especially Halo 3) swarm based villains were commonplace in gaming. They lost their fear factor, they lost their ability to intimidate players through effective swarm tactics and took away screen and story time from the interesting villains that had actual characters and motivations, The Covenant.

All that you were left with is the zombie version of The Zerg, The Borg. The Beast from Homeworld Cataclysm, Tyranids (and other Hive mind based aliens) and were eventually even bested at that by the Necromorphs of the Dead Space series, leaving Halo with nothing more than a bunch of vague plant looking bad guys that just screamed, slowed down your game and otherwise subjected you to boring and tedious if not outright BAD levels that created in the hopes of making the Flood interesting to play against again.
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Aren't the Gravemind and the Primordial the same entity though? Because Halopedia also states the Primordial transferred its consciousness into the Gravemind which would make the Primordial everything the Gravemind is.
In a sense they are. The Primordial was killed by the Iso-Didact when he stuck him in a time bubble of sorts (I don't remember the exact terminology) and accelerated the Primordial's aging process until the Primordial eventually died. This took I think billions of relative years in that bubble.

But even though the Primordial died, technically he and the Gravemind are the same thing. As you put it, the consciousness was transferred. Thanks to neural physics, even if a Gravemind is killed, once a new Gravemind is formed, it possesses all the knowledge of the previous Gravemind. Since the Primordial is essentially the first Gravemind, he lives on in each successive Gravemind.
Still we don't know for sure if the Flood really is what they say they are. Halopedia only says the Flood are corrupted Precursors because it's what the Gravemind/Primordial said but we don't really know if it's true especially when when there's just too much things that just don't add up to believe the Precursors actually went corrupt.
I mean I guess we can speculate all day long about this (and to be honest a cigar and glass of whiskey while we discuss Halo for hours sounds great to me, but I digress), but at the end of the day, the lore states this to be the case. And as I said above, I don't agree that the Primordial always lies. Quite the opposite. I believe he speaks the truth almost entirely, but he perceives the universe in an entirely different way than we do, so we don't fully understand him.
The result of Precursor dust getting jacked up by gnarly radiation and deciding to turn to the Dark Side.
The Flood are Precursors made after they turned themselves into magic space dust because Halo lost it's good writers that knew where the boundaries were and knew that Halo would never work as some space fantasy nonsense.

I was 90% certain the Flood were Precursors in 2007, after thinking about the bestiarium says, and thinking about Marathon. In the same way I was 98% certain the Darkness predated the Destiny universe and would claim responsibility for creating life on earth [ through natural selection] at least since 2015 the way he does in the season of the undying lore.

But you're entitled to your tastes, even if I profoundly disagree.
Halopedia's article specifically states that the Flood are corrupted Precursors. As for the Primordial being a liar, I don't think that's accurate. I see the Primordial as the complete opposite. He always told the truth, just maybe not in a direct way. The Precursors cycled through ages of advancement and intentional devolution. So their perception of time and the events that occur is likely far different than the way we experience time. So when he speaks, he likely is telling the truth, just not in a way we would immediately understand. And because we don't understand it, we assume it to be a lie.
Aren't the Gravemind and the Primordial the same entity though? Because Halopedia also states the Primordial transferred its consciousness into the Gravemind which would make the Primordial everything the Gravemind is.
In a sense they are. The Primordial was killed by the Iso-Didact when he stuck him in a time bubble of sorts (I don't remember the exact terminology) and accelerated the Primordial's aging process until the Primordial eventually died. This took I think billions of relative years in that bubble.

But even though the Primordial died, technically he and the Gravemind are the same thing. As you put it, the consciousness was transferred. Thanks to neural physics, even if a Gravemind is killed, once a new Gravemind is formed, it possesses all the knowledge of the previous Gravemind. Since the Primordial is essentially the first Gravemind, he lives on in each successive Gravemind.
Still we don't know for sure if the Flood really is what they say they are. Halopedia only says the Flood are corrupted Precursors because it's what the Gravemind/Primordial said but we don't really know if it's true especially when when there's just too much things that just don't add up to believe the Precursors actually went corrupt.
I mean I guess we can speculate all day long about this (and to be honest a cigar and glass of whiskey while we discuss Halo for hours sounds great to me, but I digress), but at the end of the day, the lore states this to be the case. And as I said above, I don't agree that the Primordial always lies. Quite the opposite. I believe he speaks the truth almost entirely, but he perceives the universe in an entirely different way than we do, so we don't fully understand him.
The lore says the Gravemind is the one who said they are corrupted Precursors which doesn't automatically make it a fact. I'm not saying he alway lies, I'm saying we don't know if that's the truth. I'm just trying to find out why people believe what the Gravemind says is true