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Why didn't The Arbiter assist in killing Jul?

OP AssertedBull82

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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
We didnt have time to kill Hitler?
Explain that,whos We?
Ontopic,maybe the Arbiter feared that the Assault could go wrong and he got captured or killed and then the SoS would lose the leader
I was saying your explanation makes no sense because you basically just said that Thel couldn't kill Jul because Jul lead the the war effort against Thel. THel's key objective is to kill Jul for the same reason you listed why it'd be a danger for Thel to attack Jul.

Also fear isn't something the Arbiter has. Did you see him at the battle of Sunion? He spearheaded the attack for his troops and when the Prometheans (an enemy he has never fought before) showed up, just kept on cutting thought them completely unaware of their power. For all he knew he just attacked A god tier enemy.
Well maybe not fear to die,more the fear that when hes gone that all what he has created will get destroyed and he would have just died an useless dead.
Still that point has no power since if he did fear that he wouldn't be in the battle or he'd atleast be more cousin, but we literally see him charge into the warring city, almost as if he's looking for a sweet Penta-kill.
You mean Killtacular?
I would of said that but people don't make montages of killtaculars.
Because Halo 5 screwd up the whole story and lore's direction and its ruined now.
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Because Halo 5 screwd up the whole story and lore's direction and its ruined now.
H5 stiry is quite bad, first one I don't like out if all halo games, but reach destroyed lore much more than h5.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Truman wouldn't go fight Hitler himself, would he? All the Allies won the war together, I don't see how it would be unrealistic for the UNSC to take out Jul. Japan started WWII, the UNSC ended the Sangheili Civil War.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Truman wouldn't go fight Hitler himself, would he? All the Allies won the war together, I don't see how it would be unrealistic for the UNSC to take out Jul. Japan started WWII, the UNSC ended the Sangheili Civil War.
This is a different culture. Truman never was on a single battlefield during WWII nor Roosevelt while Thel was not only a king but a commander. Clearly shown multiple times throughout halo even in Halo 5 when he willing went into battle at Sunion.

My post was making the point that Hitler was one of if not the top objective during WWII, as Jul was during the Civil War. Leaders don't directly have to be involved with each others deaths. The issue is that Thel wasn't involved at all with two of his most powerful foes Telcam and Jul's death's. That's stupid since we know him to be a person hell bent on revenge from Halo 2 and 3.

He seemed to have no interest with them despite both of the two starting the civil war.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Not really when there are other leaders to take his place. There are more factions than just the storm covenant. Thels goal was to end the war, killing one guy doesnt always carry that result and like hedge said, thel was so busy he was needed elsewhere rather than tracking down ONE person.
You are aware that's exactly what Thel did in Halo 3 with Truth and what Jul and Telcam's objective was when they planned to kill Thel. That kind of stuff breaks a faction, as shown by history and nature. Once the top dogs dead, everyone else either land grabs of burns out.

Your logic is that Thel would never waste his time doing that but he spent two Halo titles doing that and the entire reason Halo CE stared was because of the same idea. That's all Operation Red Flag was, take out the leadership or force peace.
The difference between your point and UEG's is that Thel was a foot soldier in Halo 3. In Halo 5, Thel is a Kaidon, a leader of the Sangheili people. Not a small rag tag group of Elites after the great Schism. Thel is now the leader of an entire people, he can't go risking his life wantonly on some other planet while his own is under Civil War. You are correct that Thel has no fear of death, and as someone else pointed out, Thel helped Osiris spear-head in Sunaion so that they could get to the Guardian. That was because the Civil War was effectively over. The Covenant lost when Osiris helped Thel and his Swords take back Sunaion, so in a way, he got his revenge.

To put it one way, the Arbiter in Halo 3 was only a figurehead to a rebellion. His actions against Truth and the Covenant was a personal vendetta for the constant lies he had been spoon-fed, the shame he was forced to endure in Halo 2. Halo 5, however, we see the Arbiter as the head of his people. Though they are torn in a waging Civil War, his first and only priority is to stay on his planet and maintain morale for his people. If he risked his life, even with his best Swords by his side, and died at the hands of Jul, the War would have been lost and Sanghelios would have been forced to pit against Humanity in the name of the same cause the Arbiter had liberated them from seven years prior.

If the Arbiter went to take care of Jul personally and failed, the entire ideals that he originally fought for in Halo 3 would have been wasted, as the SoS would have lost the war, and Sanghelios would be forced to fight against Humanity once again, for fear of execution. Do I agree that the Arbiter's character in Halo 5 was definitely lacking? Absolutely. Does this warrant him to risk everything he's spent years working towards over a simple vendetta? No. Jul and Thel had tried time and time again during the Civil War to send troops to assassinate the other. Both attempts on either side failed miserably.

TLDR; In Chess, a King cannot kill a King
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Not really when there are other leaders to take his place. There are more factions than just the storm covenant. Thels goal was to end the war, killing one guy doesnt always carry that result and like hedge said, thel was so busy he was needed elsewhere rather than tracking down ONE person.
You are aware that's exactly what Thel did in Halo 3 with Truth and what Jul and Telcam's objective was when they planned to kill Thel. That kind of stuff breaks a faction, as shown by history and nature. Once the top dogs dead, everyone else either land grabs of burns out.

Your logic is that Thel would never waste his time doing that but he spent two Halo titles doing that and the entire reason Halo CE stared was because of the same idea. That's all Operation Red Flag was, take out the leadership or force peace.
The difference between your point and UEG's is that Thel was a foot soldier in Halo 3. In Halo 5, Thel is a Kaidon, a leader of the Sangheili people. Not a small rag tag group of Elites after the great Schism. Thel is now the leader of an entire people, he can't go risking his life wantonly on some other planet while his own is under Civil War. You are correct that Thel has no fear of death, and as someone else pointed out, Thel helped Osiris spear-head in Sunaion so that they could get to the Guardian. That was because the Civil War was effectively over. The Covenant lost when Osiris helped Thel and his Swords take back Sunaion, so in a way, he got his revenge.

To put it one way, the Arbiter in Halo 3 was only a figurehead to a rebellion. His actions against Truth and the Covenant was a personal vendetta for the constant lies he had been spoon-fed, the shame he was forced to endure in Halo 2. Halo 5, however, we see the Arbiter as the head of his people. Though they are torn in a waging Civil War, his first and only priority is to stay on his planet and maintain morale for his people. If he risked his life, even with his best Swords by his side, and died at the hands of Jul, the War would have been lost and Sanghelios would have been forced to pit against Humanity in the name of the same cause the Arbiter had liberated them from seven years prior.

If the Arbiter went to take care of Jul personally and failed, the entire ideals that he originally fought for in Halo 3 would have been wasted, as the SoS would have lost the war, and Sanghelios would be forced to fight against Humanity once again, for fear of execution. Do I agree that the Arbiter's character in Halo 5 was definitely lacking? Absolutely. Does this warrant him to risk everything he's spent years working towards over a simple vendetta? No. Jul and Thel had tried time and time again during the Civil War to send troops to assassinate the other. Both attempts on either side failed miserably.

TLDR; In Chess, a King cannot kill a King
Nothing you've said has changed the fact that Thel didn't do anything at all to kill Jul Mdama a key figure for the Covenant who upon his death would take the Covenant with him. As your words,say "That was because the Civil War was effectively over." Thel would be aware of Jul's death bringing the war to a close and wouldn't waste anytime not attempting to kill him, either by his own hands or sending someone to do it. To our knowledge he played no role in his death nor did he assist in Telcam's death. These are the two people who started and feed the war, yet he seemed to have no drive to kill them despite knowing full well that their deaths would end the war swiftly.

There isn't a single shred of evidence that says Thel sent assassins after Jul. Jul certainly tried to kill him but to that note if you understand that they wanted each other dead, then why aren't you understanding that it makes no sense for Thel to attempt to kill Jul?

It seems like you're intentionally lying to yourself.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
We didnt have time to kill Hitler?
Explain that,whos We?
Ontopic,maybe the Arbiter feared that the Assault could go wrong and he got captured or killed and then the SoS would lose the leader
I was saying your explanation makes no sense because you basically just said that Thel couldn't kill Jul because Jul lead the the war effort against Thel. THel's key objective is to kill Jul for the same reason you listed why it'd be a danger for Thel to attack Jul.

Also fear isn't something the Arbiter has. Did you see him at the battle of Sunion? He spearheaded the attack for his troops and when the Prometheans (an enemy he has never fought before) showed up, just kept on cutting thought them completely unaware of their power. For all he knew he just attacked A god tier enemy.
thats one moment in the campaign that really impressed me deeply. Thel is the best 😉😉😉
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I always thought this was weird seeing as how the last person who screwed over Thel didn't have such a fun time. Thel chose to ally with not only humans BUT THE FLOOD to ensure Truth died and yet Jul and The Sons seem to of gotten off easy. Thel never even played a roll in Telcam's death either, almost as if saying "We cool? Yeah we cool." He never even mentions him in any piece of lore we've seen him in other side of the obvious.

Is this more of 343i not understanding characters or just them not caring? Was it just a way keep playable Sangheili out of the game because honestly it makes no sense for the Arbiter to not atleast contribute in some way to their deaths.

Looking back at Halo 3, it's crazy how he risked Guilty Spark being captured by the Flood when he made him come down from the mountains just to open a door in the aftermath of the scarab battle. Guilty Spark even says the flood is swarming and there is literally a pit full of corpses right next to them. Miranda made it clear that there we're other options so WHAT THE HELL! Why didn't he just fly a banshee up into the window, blow Truth away and call it a day? He was okay with Rtas turbo nuking him with Johnson but all of a sudden he wants to kill a prophet in his words "BY MY HANDS, NOT THEIRS!" MC even stands back and let Thel have it too. He knew not to get in the way.

It's odd that he'd risk total damnation for revenge then do nothing about the group of people who sparked civil war within his people and making his own cousin betray him.

I guess Warden Eternal and Cortana can sleep well since no matter what they do Thel and the rest of the Sangheili will just chill at Sangheilios as the galaxy is torn apart.

P.S. Anyone else find it funny that Cortana is proving the Covenant's philosophy on AI right? If I recall correctly the view Mendicant Bias' betrayal as the reason to never have advance AI and a super intelligent AI now threatens to take over the galaxy using other AI.

I don't know who made up that rule but I bet they jumped out of their grave screaming "CALLED IT!"
Because Jul was hiding. The UNSC found them due to Halsey sending signals to them.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Not really when there are other leaders to take his place. There are more factions than just the storm covenant. Thels goal was to end the war, killing one guy doesnt always carry that result and like hedge said, thel was so busy he was needed elsewhere rather than tracking down ONE person.
You are aware that's exactly what Thel did in Halo 3 with Truth and what Jul and Telcam's objective was when they planned to kill Thel. That kind of stuff breaks a faction, as shown by history and nature. Once the top dogs dead, everyone else either land grabs of burns out.

Your logic is that Thel would never waste his time doing that but he spent two Halo titles doing that and the entire reason Halo CE stared was because of the same idea. That's all Operation Red Flag was, take out the leadership or force peace.
The difference between your point and UEG's is that Thel was a foot soldier in Halo 3. In Halo 5, Thel is a Kaidon, a leader of the Sangheili people. Not a small rag tag group of Elites after the great Schism. Thel is now the leader of an entire people, he can't go risking his life wantonly on some other planet while his own is under Civil War. You are correct that Thel has no fear of death, and as someone else pointed out, Thel helped Osiris spear-head in Sunaion so that they could get to the Guardian. That was because the Civil War was effectively over. The Covenant lost when Osiris helped Thel and his Swords take back Sunaion, so in a way, he got his revenge.

To put it one way, the Arbiter in Halo 3 was only a figurehead to a rebellion. His actions against Truth and the Covenant was a personal vendetta for the constant lies he had been spoon-fed, the shame he was forced to endure in Halo 2. Halo 5, however, we see the Arbiter as the head of his people. Though they are torn in a waging Civil War, his first and only priority is to stay on his planet and maintain morale for his people. If he risked his life, even with his best Swords by his side, and died at the hands of Jul, the War would have been lost and Sanghelios would have been forced to pit against Humanity in the name of the same cause the Arbiter had liberated them from seven years prior.

If the Arbiter went to take care of Jul personally and failed, the entire ideals that he originally fought for in Halo 3 would have been wasted, as the SoS would have lost the war, and Sanghelios would be forced to fight against Humanity once again, for fear of execution. Do I agree that the Arbiter's character in Halo 5 was definitely lacking? Absolutely. Does this warrant him to risk everything he's spent years working towards over a simple vendetta? No. Jul and Thel had tried time and time again during the Civil War to send troops to assassinate the other. Both attempts on either side failed miserably.

TLDR; In Chess, a King cannot kill a King
In real life, a warrior is expected to lead from the front. Elites don't respect back seat drivers. Read The Flood, that gives you a good insight to what Elites feel about being made to sit back and not fight.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
We didnt have time to kill Hitler?
Explain that,whos We?
Ontopic,maybe the Arbiter feared that the Assault could go wrong and he got captured or killed and then the SoS would lose the leader
We didn't kill Hitler. Hitler killed Hitler when he lost.
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You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
Not really when there are other leaders to take his place. There are more factions than just the storm covenant. Thels goal was to end the war, killing one guy doesnt always carry that result and like hedge said, thel was so busy he was needed elsewhere rather than tracking down ONE person.
And as I said, Halsey only sent signals to the UNSC. You think the UNSC is freely sharing data with the Elites?
imo jul died the way he did just to make fireteam osiris badass... its just sad that he had to be the chosen sacrifice.
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imo jul died the way he did just to make fireteam osiris badass... its just sad that he had to be the chosen sacrifice.
Yeah they should have had them just recover Halsey without him even noticing, turning around at the last moment and raising his fist. "I would have gotten the Janus key if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"

Or even better an in game boss fight where you plasma pistol him and then BR him to the head!

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Idk
You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
We didnt have time to kill Hitler?Explain that,whos We?Ontopic,maybe the Arbiter feared that the Assault could go wrong and he got captured or killed and then the SoS would lose the leader
The triple entente, let's be honest though... Hitler was a bad guy. Anyone who stood for human rights would have been against him.
sniper945 wrote:
You know how busy the Arbiter is?
Its really stressfull to fight in a Civil war.
But Jul is fueling the Civil War. That's like saying we didn't have time to kill Hitler during WWII.
We didnt have time to kill Hitler?Explain that,whos We?Ontopic,maybe the Arbiter feared that the Assault could go wrong and he got captured or killed and then the SoS would lose the leader
The triple entente, let's be honest though... Hitler was a bad guy. Anyone who stood for human rights would have been against him.
It was retorical.
But thanks for the Answer.
The Arbiter currently leads the most influential faction on Sanghelios and its colonies, yet still combats enemy factions on Sanghelios. He is both administrator and warrior. Jul may have been leading the Covenant remnant that opposed the Arbiter, but he has a mile-high list of concerns. He cannot exactly drop everything to go on a mission with the UNSC to take Jul 'Mdama down. Hell, even Palmer told Osiris to take Jul out if they had the opportunity, Jul was not the primary concern for that mission.
The Arbiter currently leads the most influential faction on Sanghelios and its colonies, yet still combats enemy factions on Sanghelios. He is both administrator and warrior. Jul may have been leading the Covenant remnant that opposed the Arbiter, but he has a mile-high list of concerns. He cannot exactly drop everything to go on a mission with the UNSC to take Jul 'Mdama down. Hell, even Palmer told Osiris to take Jul out if they had the opportunity, Jul was not the primary concern for that mission.
You misunderstand. I'm not asking why Thel didn't drive the blade into Jul like truth, I'm asking why didn't he play a role in his death. As far as we know he literally played no hand in the death of his greatest foe at the time, that's extremely off. We're also led to believe that he played no hand in Telcam's death either. Actively wagging war is one thing but never having a plan to kill Jul is another.

He didn't even seem surprised that Jul had died nor did he seem to care. I understand he just got done killing his own cousin but something should of been said of Jul's death. I don't even think he mentions the guy throughout Halo 5. It's almost as if he doesn't even know he existed.

With series that has the majority of it's cast on fighting in some form of a vendetta Thel the biggest character to do that seemed pretty calm about the handling of Mdama.
He was doing Arbiter things.
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