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Why do people hate Master Chief Having a Mech Suit

OP Snockooz

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Had to take out the quotes entirely. As i was still going over 7500 even after trimming them down to singular sentences.
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Wow… I don't know if you either incapable of understanding my points or if your just refusing to acknowledge them. So, Let my make this a Clear as Possible.
NO they can't MAKE the Neural Interface on the Spirit of Fire. But, They have The Mantises That weren't destroyed By The Banished initial attack on the UNSC research outpost. Those Mantis' HAVE a Neural Interface. There For They don't need to Make Neural Interface. All they need to do is Take one of those Mantises that weren't destroy and Build onto it to make the Theseus. They aren’t making the Neural Interface they are using one of the Mantis that has a Neural Interface.

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If the Banished Have control over the outpost, or any UNSC facility for that matter, why would they need to take everything in it? All they would be doing it transporting it to another outpost. IF they don't need the Tech inside right now then there is no need to move it if the outpost is under their control. she uses The Outpost to set up a secure line to SOF. She out right states that. Its shown in my Evidence.
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"It's somewhere around 9 to 10 feet tall, as you say. That's the size of a Mantis"
The Mantis? The Mantis isn't 10 feet tall. Its 19 feet tall. Here's its height In game. When its Crouched its about 15 feet tall. When it has its legs completely folded in its about 12 feet tall. Its length is about 10 feet not it's height. So no The Mech suit wouldn't be as tall as the Mantis. It would be about half as tall. If your talking about the Cyclops then your wrong again as it is 14 feet tall and 11 feet wide. Neither of these are going to fit in your average UNSC facility. A 10 Foot tall Mech suit will, it might need to crouch down to fit if some door but that’s all.

The Mantis is a large walker mech there is only so much that something that big and cumbersome can do.

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It also Stated. "Following the augmentation procedures, recovery and subsequent training usually lasted several months" The fact that is say usually doesn't mean much as that could be the difference of months, weeks, days, or even hour. So, don't push you luck on that. It also says nothing of the training them inMJOLNIR armor. Considering they need several months of training with there augmentation it would only make since that Training with MJOLNIR would take similar time. Also The Fact that the Spartan 2s were put on a mission right after they got their MJOLNIR is an outlier. They had no choice in the Mater. They either did the mission or died to the Covenant.

I compare it to cars today because they are build on an assembly line in a manufacturing facility. Tanks today aren’t. They're built individually by mechanics. Tanks in Halo however are built on an assembly line. As even Pelican are built on an assembly line. The Mech suit would take longer yes But If your really think a Tank 500 years in the future still takes 12 weeks then I think your going to need some evidence. I know there is none but since the Pelican is on an assembly, I think 2 to 3 day seems about right. As for the Mech suit, assuming it is also on an Assembly line I would put it at most a week or two.

Doesn't mater it's Canon. You can say it takes creative liberties(most of which were art style and visuals) but unless you can show any evidence that it is wrong, its canon. There is no indication that he had any prior knowledge other than what his superiors told him. His Superior didn't want him using the suit so why would they sent someone who knew how to pilot it? There is some indication that he knew the person who built it but that is all. Disclosing information on a Classified piece of technology is strictly forbidden in the UNSC. He Likely was doing a few things wrong Yes. However, based on what he was capable of doing after 0 training tells me that it isn't all that hard to pilot.

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Yes It really it. Like I said before the Entire Infinity was there on guard duty. That's not some that is going to happen all that often. The Mission they had on Requiem was research and recovery. Again the entire Infinity was present for those Mission. Again you completely ignored my the the point I stated you so I'll state it again.

What I'm talking about is the numerous UNSC facilities all over UNSC controlled Space. Are you going to be able to Get spartan Guards for All Of them? No. Could you get a few tanks or Mantises and train the standard guards stationed there to use them? Yes.

Why Because Its role isn't filled by the Mantis. Like I said before. The Mantis is almost twice as big. Physically can't fit in most UNSC facility that aren't design to house vehicles. They are slower. They can climb or jump. The terrain they are limited to is anything that isn't taller than half their leg height. Based on The Prototype anime they cant fly. They can't operate machinery or touch panels. They can't lift and carry objects. If they fall over they cant stand back up on their own. They can only use two armaments. Without thrusters they cant operate in space. They are a much bigger and louder target. ETC.
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It really does matter. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that your average Spartan 4 are just effective as a Spartan 2 specifically master chief. Cuz if you are I'm just going to laugh at you. Spartan Assault feats is mostly gameplay and there isn't much in a way of cinematic feats shown. Ghost only took damage when his arm was blown off. Tell me if a Spartan's Arm is blown off does the Spartan not take damage? If what your assuming is That the suit is piloted like the Mantis then your wrong. As Show with the Green Machine concept the suit is worn not driven. The Arm that got blown off had his arm inside.

The MJOLNIR can take more damage? You know that those elite were using Fuel Rods Right? And he was getting bombarded by fuel rod shots. It wasn't till he got hit with a point blank plasma grenade explosion that he took any visible damage. And even then it only blow off his arm. A spartan would likely lose a large portion of his torso at that range without a shield. However, Comparing durability when that Suit was made during the Mark 4 days is kind of redundant. If the Suit was built with Gen 2 standards would be far more durable.

What's to say that the hand part cant use Covenant Weapon? Most Of them can be used by Brutes and brutes can get upwards to 9 feet tall.

Without a Vehicle yes it is more powerful than MJOLNIR. And even with most large vehicles. They are big, Slow, and really easy to hit. While the Suit if it gets hit by a tank it would take a lot of damage but that still requires it to get hit by the tank and their barrel has a very slow turning radius. And the Mantis is no different, Slow moving, slow turning radius, and a really big target. A Spartan would likely have a much better chance with heavy weapons than a big vehicle.

Again the fact that they used some of the research from this suit to make the Mantis doesn't somehow make the mantis better. They are two very different Vehicle.

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I didn't say they require Special platform to deploy too. I was meaning that they need to have been shipped to that station like all vehicle before they can be used at that station.

No but it houses the vast major of them as its stated to house hundreds of Spartan 4. I believe its stated somewhere to be 300 to 400 but I can find the source.
Snockooz wrote:
I don't know if you either incapable of understanding my points or if your just refusing to acknowledge them.
Not the best start, snock. I understand your points quite well, I simply disagree with them. Understanding does not guarantee agreement, and the facts do not line up with your points.

Again, the Phoenix Log quite clearly states "While capable, these units lack the neural interface control systems installed on contemporary UNSC models; a necessary concession due to the Spirit of Fire's older manufacturing technology." That means they do not have them; not that they're "reusing" NIC's from destroyed Mantises. End of story.

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The Mantis? The Mantis isn't 10 feet tall. Its 19 feet tall.
Yes, you are correct. However, the Prototype suit is about that height as well, it seems. In that shot, it towers over those two Marines, far above 9 feet. Neither does it's depiction follow human anatomy - the hips are placed in such a way that a human could not fill out the suit. The only way that it's being piloted is if the Marine is contained within the body. For it to be able to do what it did in The Prototype while also being smaller than a Mantis would literally kill the pilot.

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It also Stated. "Following the augmentation procedures, recovery and subsequent training usually lasted several months"
Yes, I said that already; we've been over that. Fact is here, you're now also trying to pitch your mecha suit as better than Spartans. Better than everything short of a Frigate. You're seeming to shift it from "here's a cool idea for a vehicle or single-level upgrade" to "this could be the extent of the UNSC's combat forces." But Halo isn't Gundam or Mechwarrior; the Mantis was coming close, yet it was still able to be integrated into the canon while retaining a very clear "Halo" feel to it. What you're posing? Not so much. Especially since canonically it's been outdated, refined, and optimized to the Mantis.

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Doesn't mater it's Canon.
The fact of the Mark I [P]ADS being a prototype weapon systems on Algolis is canon. That a Marine Sergeant fought off the Covenant with the Mark I before destroying it is canon. That everything went down exactly like in the anime? I sincerely doubt it. Even if it were, there are still significant issues with the Mark I that have been brought up many times.

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What I'm talking about is the numerous UNSC facilities all over UNSC controlled Space. Are you going to be able to Get spartan Guards for All Of them? No. Could you get a few tanks or Mantises and train the standard guards stationed there to use them? Yes.
And again, if you can get a Mantis or tank to guard a facility, why does the UNSC need your mecha concept?

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[Mantises] can't lift and carry objects.

All that came before this are things that can be done by either Spartans or ODST (or hell, even standard Marines), but this is plainly false. On the Halo 4 level Composer there's a conversation between two individuals. One states "I know how to use it to haul cargo, not shoot Covenant!"
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Without thrusters they cant operate in space. They are a much bigger and louder target. ETC.
Firstly, the Prototype couldn't operate in space either. Now you're really seeming to push hard for "Halo: Gundam Wing" or what have you. Secondly with as much damage as the Mark I was doing, it was an enormous target.

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It really does matter. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that your average Spartan 4 are just effective as a Spartan 2 specifically master chief. Cuz if you are I'm just going to laugh at you.
Laugh then, but there's a lot of canon to back up Spartan IV's being just as effective and skilled as Spartan II's. Your excuse that Spartan Assault is mostly gameplay and not cinematics is just that--an excuse. As requested, those instances are examples of Spartan IV's performing under overwhelming odds.

Back to the "Green Machine", that is most likely the canonical representation of the Mark I, rather than what was seen in The Prototype. Yet as such, it's likely unable to act as much like a Gundam as the Mark I was in that anime. That the Sergeant got his arm blown off when the arm was lost just furthers that likelihood; the way that suit is built, the human body does not work like that. Especially the hip area.

I also said that MJOLNIR provides significantly more protection, namely that of persistent, regenerating energy shields rather than a one-off bubble shield. Not that it can take more damage.
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Ha. "End of story." Your funny. No its not.
Again as indicated in the Phoenix Log there were a few Mantises that still have the neural interface that weren't destroyed. Clearly not enough for mass deployment which is why they ended up make more that lacked the neural interface. The Command Mantis won't be made in mass and they likely only made one so it's a good thing there were a few Mantises with fully functional neural interfaces.
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It's funny how you went from saying the Mantis is 10 feet tall to saying the suit is 19 feet tall. It's almost like you know your wrong and you just don't want to admit it.

I Also love how your using a part that clearly has cinematic perspective when no more that 20 seconds later you see the suit right next to a 12 foot tall Wraith and its clearly nowhere never 19 feet. However, since your you I’ll give as much indisputable evidence as possible. Here's the Evidence.
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Then don't pretend it only takes a few weeks.

I'm pitching it that way because it's true. This suit is more powerful than a Spartan 4. “Better than Anything short Of a Frigate.” I never Say it had More firepower than The Mantis or the Tank. The Fact of the Matter is Spartans are fully capable of outmaneuvering and destroying Large Vehicles Like tanks and Mantises. This is because Tanks, at least the ones in Halo, Aren't designed to take down Small and fast Moving targets at close range. There is zero reason to believe a Suit Like this can’t do the same. This thing isn’t going to beat a Long sword Fighter or a Seraph unless they’re moving really slow and the pilot is being stupid. However, It is Clearly depicted being able to take down Wraiths, Banshees, and even a Phantom. It Has far more fire Power than any Spartan as every had without a vehicle. Whether or not a Spartan 4 could beat one in a one on one fight is arguable as it depend on who the spartan 4 is, what weapons they are using, and who is in the suit. But in terms of shown feats this suit is more powerful.

I love how you continue to try to downplay my argument to “you like gundams and just want gundams in Halo" it's cute.
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If You have any actual evidence that proves that anything that was shown in that episode isn’t Canon, fell free to show it at anytime.

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As I have Proven already. It is small enough to fit i ln Most UNSC facilities. It’s a Faster and much harder to hit target. It makes less noise and and is far less obvious a when its not in combat. It Holds at Least 3 armaments. It can use handheld devices, equipment, and explosive. I can operate machinery that requires a hand. If it falls over it can get back up. It can be used in hazardous environments that require human proportions and abilities. Considering it’s design is very similar to MJOLNIR it likely is pressure sealed and with its thrusters it would operate just as effectively as Gen 2 armors do in Space. It is Lighter and smaller so you can transport more of it. It can replace Drop pods in scenarios that require it. It can Fly. It can Jump. It can climb. It can put a normal Human on the same level as a Spartan. Ect.

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And If a Spartan isn’t there and the object is far too heavy to be moved by normal humans? Like say for instance a Drop Pod that is stuck and the ODST inside can’t escape. The Mantis needs a Cargo hauler attachment to do that. Or the Cargo needs to be attached directly to the Mantis. Both of which can not be done all the time in a Combat situation. I should also mention that seeing as this Suit is half the size of a Mantis it likely will only be able to lift half the weight a Mantis could, probably even less.

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Its a Suit designed very similarly to MJOLNIR there is no reason to believe it wouldn’t be Vacuum sealed just like every version of MJOLNIR. It isn't a bigger louder Targets as I have already proven.
Wow, that's the 3rd Gundam reference in these replys. Your really pushing that angle.
And again it's no bigger than 10 feet.

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It's not an excuse. When dealing with Gameplay many things can happen not all of them can to be canon. We have no idea for certain how Palmer acted during those events. Where as In a Cinematic Video, comic, or book it is very clearly shown or stated what a Character does and how they do it. But let's look at what she did that can be considered canon. Defending outposts and Bases with numerous marines and heavy mounted weapon. Fighting through covenant occupied areas with Marine and or ODST support. And destroying Many Covenant Vehicles and weapons emplacement using powerful armored Vehicles. The Only thing that comes to the same level as the Prototype Suit is her destroying Numerous Covenant Vehicles and Weapon emplacements But she did that with Powerful Vehicles. And I have never stated that the Suit has More Firepower than the Larger UNSC Vehicles, Only that it can hold more armaments than a lot of them.

You have Zero evidence to prove that Green Machine is the canonical representation of the Mark I. And Please show the evidence that the Mark 1 can't do what it was shown doing.

I wont argue whether or not the proportions on the suit were off because they were. However, the Suit still was meant to be worn not drive, given its size. But that all comes down to the visual aesthetics and that’s where the animators were given creative liberties. Everything that Happened, however, is still canon. It’s stated in the Director's Commentary that Frank O'Connor wrote the initial script and the only thing that really changed in the final product was they got rid of some of the excess dialog. This is Stated Directly by Frank O’Connor.

A Fourth Gundam reference. Your on a roll now.

OK. I'll give you that, a persistent energy shield is better than That One Off Bubble shield. Though, As show with the Green Machine, a newer version of this suit would likely just use a recharging energy shield.
Snockooz wrote:
Ha. "End of story." Your funny. No its not.
Aye, it is. Nothing in the Phoenix Logs indicate that the crew of the Spirit of Fire salvaged and reused neural interfaces, and in fact the Phoenix Log specifically states that the Spirit's Mantises do not have them. Furthermore, the Log only states that "many were destroyed", it does not indicate if this was total or partial. You've nothing to prove or even hint that neural interfaces were recovered and repurposed, and as it stands now the canon states that all Mantises produced by the Spirit of Fire while stranded in proximity of Installation 00 do not have them. Theseus is thus conceptual novelty, a non-canon unit crafted for the non-canonical concept of Jerome as a fully-outfitted Commander. His depiction as a Hero Unit for Captain Cutter, in contrast, is canonical.

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It's funny how you went from saying the Mantis is 10 feet tall to saying the suit is 19 feet tall.
So by your picture comparisons (Wraith, Mantis, Spartan) the Prototype suit is just shorter than a Spartan. Yet in this shot, it's clearly mammoth in comparison to those Marines. (so far as "cinematic perspective", at best it puts the Prototype at around 19-ish feet; if it's further away, then it's larger.) Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency of the anime's depiction. Either the Mark I prototype is the exact size of a Spartan (which, by the way, would kill the pilot and which also doesn't work with human biology: hips don't work like that), or the Covenant vehicles are significantly upscaled for dramatic visuals. Which you even acknowledge further down.

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I'm pitching it that way because it's true. This suit is more powerful than a Spartan 4.
No, this suit is however powerful you want it to be, because it's a concept that you're creating. The only thing you've to base it off is an anime depiction which has been practically shown to be over-dramatic (unrealistically large Mgalekgolo and geysures of blood) and which does not logically work in the manner that you're pitching.

Nothing that you've "proven" is anything more than theory, as it is 100% canonical fact that the UNSC has moved on past the Mark I [P]ADS, and it became the Mark IX ADS Mantis. There is no logical or technological reason to regress back to Mark I, for a system that has significant issues with how far you want to push it.

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Its a Suit designed very similarly to MJOLNIR there is no reason to believe it wouldn’t be Vacuum sealed just like every version of MJOLNIR.
The first three iterations of MJOLNIR were not vacuum sealed at all. They would not be until MJOLNIR Mark IV, and were exoskeletons that were ultimated abandoned due to powering issues and unwieldiness in battle. The Mark I [P]ADS is designed after the HRUNTING Mark III Cyclops exoskeleton, which was designed after the MJOLNIR Mark II exoskeleton. The Mark I [P]ADS is the first of the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL project, and is not closely related to MJOLNIR at all.

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You have Zero evidence to prove that Green Machine is the canonical representation of the Mark I.
Which is why I say "most likely". Rationally, however, there's no other reason for them to skip A-I to make a Mark I [J], other than the [J] standing for "Johnson." If the [J] variant is the canonical representation, then it's mechanically impossible for it to be leaping and flying around the battlefield at the size that it is without killing an unaugmented operator. And later version of the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL project did have regenerating energy shields; the Mantis clearly does.
Aye, it is. Nothing in the Phoenix Logs indicate that the crew of the Spirit of Fire salvaged and reused neural interfaces, and in fact the Phoenix Log specifically states that the Spirit's Mantises do not have them.
Doesn't Matter. IF there is any UNSC tech in the areas they have retaken, there is 0 reason not to salvage as much of it as possible.
The Mantises that Phoenix log is talking about are that Mass produced ones. Those aren’t the same as the Command Mantis.
The Proof is that there is zero reason for them not salvage any UNSC tech they find. The SOF only has so much resources.
As it stands canon states that the Mass produced Mantises do not have a Neural Interface.

So now your saying that Jerome wasn't given the Rank of Commander?
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With the authority granted to him as the ranking Navy and UEG official in a designated administrative region, Captain Cutter has conferred Jerome-092 the acting rank of Commander. The rank itself is a formality, but one insisted on by Isabel to better align the ship’s ad-hoc command structure with the letter of UNSC regulations.
So your saying this is also False? I mean the Mantis is one thing but this?

Hero Units are Gameplay specific. In Canon all the Spartans are under Cutters Command. That, However, doesn't mean he cant or wont put them in command of their own forces.
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So by your picture comparisons (Wraith, Mantis, Spartan) the Prototype suit is just shorter than a Spartan.
Oh So now its Shorter than a Spartan huh?
Well here's Some Images disproving that.
Again that shot was cinematic perspective. However, if you look at this shot with the marines behind it and then at that shot. Well… I think with that added info the suit would be able to step on something 19 feet tall. But, that shot is using cinematic perspective so the suit isn't anywhere near that big. Also, given the angle, the distance the marines are from the suit, and the size the suit is in frame, there is no way it would actually look that big from their prospective.

"or the Covenant vehicles are significantly upscaled for dramatic visuals. Which you even acknowledge further down."
I said that the artists were given creative liberties on visual aesthetics. That doesn't mean they're going nearly double the size of the Wraith, Elites, and Phantom when they have clear proportions that almost never change. Looking at the Episode, The Marines, the Covenant, The Phantom, the Wraith, The Banshees, and the shuttles are all clearly anime recreations of the designs in Halo 3 and Halo Wars for the shuttle. Considering that, Why would they Drastically change their Proportions? Or better yet, why would 343 allow them to Drastically change the Proportions of these staples of Halo? When it comes down to it that Only thing in the episode that isn't a recreation of designs from other Halos is the Suit. It’s the only thing that's new at all. So no the vehicles aren’t significantly upscaled for dramatic visuals. The only thing you can say about them is they aren't one to one recreations but that was never going to happen unless it was 3D animation like The Package. Also, because of the animation, slight inconsistencies are going to happen, this isn't about the shot of the suit in front of the marines, like vehicles and character having slightly different proportions at different angles.
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No, this suit is however powerful you want it to be, because it's a concept that you're creating.
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It’s a Faster and much harder to hit target. It makes less noise and and is far less obvious a when its not in combat. It Holds at Least 3 armaments. It can use handheld devices, equipment, and explosive. I can operate machinery that requires a hand. If it falls over it can get back up. It can be used in hazardous environments that require human proportions and abilities. Considering it’s design is very similar to MJOLNIR it likely is pressure sealed and with its thrusters it would operate just as effectively as Gen 2 armors do in Space. It is Lighter and smaller so you can transport more of it. It can replace Drop pods in scenarios that require it. It can Fly. It can Jump. It can climb. It can put a normal Human on the same level as a Spartan.
Beside the Bolded parts, which I'll admit are me pushing the suit to what I believe is it's logical conclusions, what of these are concepts that I've created and are not representative of what we have already seen of the suit?

Over-Dramatic? The geysers of Blood is an artistic choice and don't mean that person didn't get cut in that specific spot. Similar to an explosion being overly large for no other reason than it looks cool. The "unrealistically large Mgalekgolo" are Canon. The Goliath. It's size isn't much different. They many not look exactly the same but they are canon. We know Mgalekgolo colonies get larger overtime until they split in to two Mgalekgolo colonies. But, there really isn't any indication of a limit to how large they can get. In the Halo 3 Map Assemble, there are large tubes that stretch fairly far full of Lekgolo worms. They seem to be connected like a colony. Maybe they're not and maybe I doesn't matter because they're just being transported, but I just don't see any reason a hunter that big couldn't exist.

Again the Only things that aren't "Proven" are the Bolded parts. Regressing Implies removing what is already there for something that was used in the past. They wouldn't be regressing as there is no reason Mantis and this suit can't coexist. They wouldn't be use for the same reasons.
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The Mark I [P]ADS is designed after the HRUNTING Mark III Cyclops exoskeleton, which was designed after the MJOLNIR Mark II exoskeleton.
I disagree that it wasn't related to MJOLNIR as it shares many visual similarities to the Mark 3. However, I'll concede this point and simply say if this suit was upgraded to Gen 2 standards it being built to function effectively in the vacuum of space is logical considering the number of space battles that are waged in Halo. This isn't me saying it would be effective like a Broadsword. It would be effective enough to be usable in the event of a hull breach and capable of fighting against other EVA combatants. Something Like this would be very useful considering Ranger Elites are commonly used in Boarding Parties and every few ships will have Spartans that can fight them off..
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Rationally, however, there's no other reason for them to skip A-I to make a Mark I [J], other than the [J] standing for "Johnson."
I don't think it is but if that's your head canon then there isn't much I can say that would disprove it that hasn't already been said. However, with [J] that could represent a variant. Similar to how in Marks 4-6 and Gen 2 have nearly hundreds of different Variants. Or it could represent the number of Prototypes that were made. It has been at least 30 years sense that suit was made, who knows how many more times they tried to make a similar suit. It being the 10th Prototype after that long doesn't seem all that hard to believe. Obviously these are both theories and I have Zero evidence to back either of them up.
Snockooz wrote:
The Mantises that Phoenix log is talking about are that Mass produced ones. Those aren’t the same as the Command Mantis. The Proof is that there is zero reason for them not salvage any UNSC tech they find.
That's no proof at all, that's pure conjecture and your opinion. There is nothing to indicate your now-argument that "All Mantises lack neural interfaces except for this one special Mantis."
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So now your saying that Jerome wasn't given the Rank of Commander?
First off, that's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that this is not canonical. Secondly, Jerome was only given the rank of acting Commander. He is not a true O-5 Commander; his rank is Spartan. The only thing that really indicates is that he is the lead Spartan aboard the Spirit of Fire, in the same way that Sarah Palmer is not an O-5 either, but lead Spartan aboard the Infinity.

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Oh So now its Shorter than a Spartan huh?
At or near to. It's difficult to compare game models to an inconsistent anime. Also you're comparing the Type-57 Phantom, whereas the anime depicts the Type-52 Phantom; the 57 is shorter in both length and width than the 52. Your Spartan is also crouched fully, whereas the Mark I prototype is not. In shots of the Wraith, the best comparison is near to the rear fins; it's difficult to tell how far the prototype is from the front of the Wraith, as it's leaping away from it. In shots by the rear fin, there's a difference of perhaps a foot or less.

In any case, the way in which the prototype suit is depicted is biologically impossible for a human to fit inside. I've brought this up a couple of times, as well as providing you with a contour-highlighted picture, and I noticed you've yet to address that aside from "it's artistic liberty". Funny how artistic liberty only every works to excuse away biological impossibility, but not technological right? In other words, exactly what I said about the plot of the anime being canon, but it's depiction being entirely over-the-top.

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why would 343 allow them to Drastically change the Proportions of these staples of Halo?
Probably for the same reasons that Sangheili were given human-like faces, Spartans long, thick, flowing hair and.or dreadlocks (that would not logically fit inside a helmet), Halsey was made a blonde waif, Sangheili were given bug-eyes, a Spartan is killed by very few Needler round, etc. Artistic liberty in representation (which you're trying to take as solid canon), when the only thing canonical - and what was likely the only thing limited by 343 - is the plot of events. Daisy-023 encountering her clone is canonical, Daisy-023 having the emotional tug of a little teddy bear charm hanging from her assault rifle not so much. Cal-141 accompanying members of the 105th to assassinate a minor Prophet is canonical, Cal-141 having Baywatch hair not so much.

As for the giant Mgalekgolo, it doesn't really work like that. A Goliath (which absolutely does not stand 50 feet tall) is a collection of what would be two bond-brother Mgalekgolo, but joined into one being that must favor brute strength over the ability to operate a typical Hunter suit. A single Mgalekgolo (about 12 feet tall) is one half of the entire colony that split to form two connected units.

This all ties back to my stance that the Mark I ADS "Green Machine" is a closer canonical representation than what we saw in the anime. The suit is canonical, it's various depictions are likely not necessarily so.

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...with [J] that could represent a variant. Similar to how in Marks 4-6 and Gen 2 have nearly hundreds of different Variants. Or it could represent the number of Prototypes that were made.
[J] being a variant is right where I said that it stands for "Johnson". That's the "variant", as that's how it's presented to us: as Johnson's personal suit that's optimized for his combat style (mechanical warfare) and modified (without a helmet) to show off "ruggedly good looks". The numbering would be Mark I; individual suits aren't numbered on their own. If it was the 7th "prototype", then by that point it wouldn't be a prototype at all, and would be the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark VII ADS.

As for suits in the [GEN 2] family, their "variants" are the class listing. EVA-class Mjolnir, SCOUT-class Mjolnir, etc. Bracketed denotations mark true variants within that class; for example, you have the Mark V Mjolnir armor, and then the Mark V Mjolnir armor which was slightly modified to be experimental with armor system additions. They're both still Mark V.
That's no proof at all, that's pure conjecture and your opinion. There is nothing to indicate your now-argument that "All Mantises lack neural interfaces except for this one special Mantis."
It's proof that its not Impossible for them to make it which your original argument was that it is impossible.
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First off, that's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that this is not canonical. Secondly, Jerome was only given the rank of acting Commander. He is not a true O-5 Commander; his rank is Spartan. The only thing that really indicates is that he is the lead Spartan aboard the Spirit of Fire, in the same way that Sarah Palmer is not an O-5 either, but lead Spartan aboard the Infinity.
Spartan isn't a Rank it’s a branch of the Military. This is why Fred is a Spartan with the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade, Kurt was a Lieutenant Commander, and Master Chief is a Master Chief Petty Officer. Jerome is still a Commander. When they reunite with the rest of the UNSC that may change, but until then he does have the Rank of Commander. Palmer's Rank is stated to be Spartan Commander. That isn't the same as Acting Commander or Lieutenant Commander. It specifically refers to her command over Spartans. All the Ranks I have shown do not.
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At or near to. It's difficult to compare game models to an inconsistent anime. Also you're comparing the Type-57 Phantom, whereas the anime depicts the Type-52 Phantom; the 57 is shorter in both length and width than the 52. Your Spartan is also crouched fully, whereas the Mark I prototype is not. In shots of the Wraith, the best comparison is near to the rear fins; it's difficult to tell how far the prototype is from the front of the Wraith, as it's leaping away from it. In shots by the rear fin, there's a difference of perhaps a foot or less.

In any case, the way in which the prototype suit is depicted is biologically impossible for a human to fit inside. I've brought this up a couple of times, as well as providing you with a contour-highlighted picture, and I noticed you've yet to address that aside from "it's artistic liberty". Funny how artistic liberty only every works to excuse away biological impossibility, but not technological right? In other words, exactly what I said about the plot of the anime being canon, but it's depiction being entirely over-the-top.
It is 9-10 feet if your going to disprove that start showing evidence. The Difference in Size between the Type 52 and 57 isn't large enough to make a difference. The 52 is only 4 feet longer and 1 foot wider. In the Frames shown we are using the width of the phantoms. I thought the Mark 1 was crouched but its also not standing upright. But here if it will make you happy.
The One of it in front of the Wraith is when the suit is leaping over the front fin so it's extremely close. The one at the rear fin is more than a foot differences. That shot also had a weird angle that I couldn't recreate. I love how you just ignore the frame of the Suit next to an Elite which is by for the best depiction of it's height. So we have at least 3 frames showing it's height being 9-10 feet and 1 that might be closer to 8.

So your argument is that the suit is biologically impossible there for what its shown doing isn't canon? Again the script is written by Frank O'Connor. Also I already stated in an earlier post that I know the suit's proportions are off. I was never arguing they weren't. That doesn't mean what its shown doing isn't canon or it being a Suit that is worn is false. Also The suit shows up two other times and looks practically the same. One in the Fall of Reach Comic and one in
Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian.
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Probably for the same reasons that Sangheili were given human-like faces, Spartans long, thick, flowing hair and.or dreadlocks (that would not logically fit inside a helmet), Halsey was made a blonde waif, Sangheili were given bug-eyes, a Spartan is killed by very few Needler round, etc. Artistic liberty in representation (which you're trying to take as solid canon), when the only thing canonical - and what was likely the only thing limited by 343 - is the plot of events. Daisy-023 encountering her clone is canonical, Daisy-023 having the emotional tug of a little teddy bear charm hanging from her assault rifle not so much. Cal-141 accompanying members of the 105th to assassinate a minor Prophet is canonical, Cal-141 having Baywatch hair not so much.

As for the giant Mgalekgolo, it doesn't really work like that. A Goliath (which absolutely does not stand 50 feet tall) is a collection of what would be two bond-brother Mgalekgolo, but joined into one being that must favor brute strength over the ability to operate a typical Hunter suit. A single Mgalekgolo (about 12 feet tall) is one half of the entire colony that split to form two connected units.

This all ties back to my stance that the Mark I ADS "Green Machine" is a closer canonical representation than what we saw in the anime. The suit is canonical, it's various depictions are likely not necessarily so
They didn't have Human Faces, They simply weren't using all their mandibles to talk. Kelly had Long hair in halo the Fall of Reach And there is no reason to believe that Spartans can't have long hair or dreadlocks. You'll need proof that the hair couldn't have fit in the helmet. Halsey was blond and at that point she was also much younger. The elites weren't bug eyed they were designed off the Halo Wars 1 elites. A single Plasma shot was able to breach Mark 4. Needler needles explodes after they are embedded sending numerous shards in every direction. Without medical attention, Yes a few needles exploding in or near a Spartan's lung would kill them. There is no reason to believe she wouldn't hold on to something her clone gifted to her. There is nothing in Canon that tells us Spartans can't have long hair.

It does work like that. The Hunter is nowhere near 50 feet in that scene. We see one getting push over by a wraith and the Wraith's width is 30 feet not 50. Also the Goliath is shown being easily twice the height of a Scorpion in it's concept art so their height isn't much different.
No it's not and you have yet to prove that.
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[J] being a variant is right where I said that it stands for "Johnson". That's the "variant", as that's how it's presented to us: as Johnson's personal suit that's optimized for his combat style (mechanical warfare) and modified (without a helmet) to show off "ruggedly good looks". The numbering would be Mark I; individual suits aren't numbered on their own. If it was the 7th "prototype", then by that point it wouldn't be a prototype at all, and would be the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark VII ADS.

As for suits in the [GEN 2] family, their "variants" are the class listing. EVA-class Mjolnir, SCOUT-class Mjolnir, etc. Bracketed denotations mark true variants within that class; for example, you have the Mark V Mjolnir armor, and then the Mark V Mjolnir armor which was slightly modified to be experimental with armor system additions. They're both still Mark V.
When I said it could be a variant I didn't mean it like that. There isn't a limit to how many prototypes of something you can have. And like I said these were theory's. There isn't any evidence that proves them.
Snockooz wrote:
Spartan isn't a Rank it’s a branch of the Military.
It's both. "Unlike other branches, which maintain escalating rank systems, all Spartans are considered equal, their standing and specialization determined by personal skill alone. All detachments operate under a Spartan commander while individual fireteams operate under a team leader." So far as Jerome's rank - clearly stated as a formality he is an acting Commander. That means his rank is mostly for show, and overall temporary. He does not actually have the rank of Commander.

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The Difference in Size between the Type 52 and 57 isn't large enough to make a difference.
True, but the contours are quite different. Where your Spartan is positioned has a different contour than the Type-52. From that adjusted shot, however, they look to be roughly the same size. Which yet again, as shown in this image here, the profile of the prototype - specifically the hips - is biologically impossible. There is no way for a human to fill the suit as though it were only 9-10 feet tall. The frames near the rear fin, again, show a difference of only about a foot or so - again, biologically impossible. The shots with the Elite is a sloppy comparison of poorly inserted side-by-sides, and an awkward angle of the suit to where it's difficult to tell just what's going on.

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So your argument is that the suit is biologically impossible there for what its shown doing isn't canon? Again the script is written by Frank O'Connor.
Got a source for that? Because according to an interview with Major Nielson, O'Connor just sent the various studios outlines of story ideas, not complete scripts.

And yes, I maintain that if the prototype suit is 9-10 feet tall, with a non-augmented Marine filling the arms and legs as though it's a suit of power armor, what it's depicted doing in the anime would kill the Marine. It is biologically impossible, as I have supported with the image linked above for the second time; again, hips don't work like that. Either that suit is monstrously large - with the Marine filling no more than the chest area-cockpit - or the canonical depiction of the Mark I ADS is what we see in Halo Wars 2, and is unable to zip around the battle field doling out destruction with lightning-fast anime style.

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They didn't have Human Faces,
I said human-like, and yes they did.

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Kelly had Long hair in halo the Fall of Reach And there is no reason to believe that Spartans can't have long hair or dreadlocks. You'll need proof that the hair couldn't have fit in the helmet.
Have you ever tried to fit that much hair into a helmet? Having hair that's less than shoulder length is one thing, having a huge mane that reaches to lower back, or dreadlocks that take up a lot of space is quite another. Neither was Halsey ever blonde, least of all in 2544, when Operation: WARM BLANKET (the events of The Package) takes place. Halsey has black hair, grey in her older age.

And yes, the Sangheili were depicted with evil red bug eyes. And before it's argued that they're goggles, there's a scene where the Supreme Commander clearly blinks.

As for Daisy's death, as depicted she's shot by three Needler rounds - not enough to supercombine, though they do - which then remain embeded in her armor. There is also every reason to believe that she wouldn't hold onto sentimental trinkets, as that's not what Spartan II's do.

The point to all this being yet again that what's seen in the anime is not necessarily canonical.

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The Hunter is nowhere near 50 feet in that scene.
The lighting in that scene is terrible, but I highlited the Arbiter in green. Sangheili are typically 8 feet tall. 7 if they're on the short end. That Hunter as depicted is monstrously large, well beyond what canon outlines for their size per colony unit. You are also continually providing (thumbnails of) concept art, which is not official canon. It is concept, nothing more. As is, however, Goliaths are not 50 feet or anywhere near. A single Hunter is 12 feet tall. As Goliath's are a colony that did not split into bond-brothers, figure that they're 24 feet tall.
It's both. "Unlike other branches, which maintain escalating rank systems, all Spartans are considered equal, their standing and specialization determined by personal skill alone. All detachments operate under a Spartan commander while individual fireteams operate under a team leader." So far as Jerome's rank - clearly stated as a formality he is an acting Commander. That means his rank is mostly for show, and overall temporary. He does not actually have the rank of Commander.
  1. That outright states that they are a branch of the Military.
  2. Nowhere does it stated that Spartan is their Rank.
  3. This has zero to do with Spartans under special conditions, like Jerome, Fred, Kurt, and Chief.
  4. This doesn't some how change the fact that there are Spartans with Ranks that aren't specifically related to Spartans Like Palmer's Rank.
It being a Formality doesn't change the Fact that he is Acting Commander and Currently does have the Rank of Commander.
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True, but the contours are quite different. Where your Spartan is positioned has a different contour than the Type-52. From that adjusted shot, however, they look to be roughly the same size. Which yet again, as shown in this image here, the profile of the prototype - specifically the hips - is biologically impossible. There is no way for a human to fill the suit as though it were only 9-10 feet tall. The frames near the rear fin, again, show a difference of only about a foot or so - again, biologically impossible. The shots with the Elite is a sloppy comparison of poorly inserted side-by-sides, and an awkward angle of the suit to where it's difficult to tell just what's going on.
Their Contour doesn't change their width. And no they don't look that Same size. I don't know what images your looking at. The back fin is one shot, now there are 4 shots with the suit being 9-10 feet tall. That Doesn't change the fact that the suit is canon as it is shown in 2 other instances and that the suit is shown to be nowhere near the height of a Mantis. The side-by -side wasn't meant to be accurate to the sizes shown in the Image It was meant to show the difference in Height between a Halo 3 Elite and a Spartan. The Suit is clearly right next to an Elite and the size difference is apparent.
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Got a source for that? Because according to an interview with Major Nielson, O'Connor just sent the various studios outlines of story ideas, not complete scripts.

And yes, I maintain that if the prototype suit is 9-10 feet tall, with a non-augmented Marine filling the arms and legs as though it's a suit of power armor, what it's depicted doing in the anime would kill the Marine. It is biologically impossible, as I have supported with the image linked above for the second time; again, hips don't work like that. Either that suit is monstrously large - with the Marine filling no more than the chest area-cockpit - or the canonical depiction of the Mark I ADS is what we see in Halo Wars 2, and is unable to zip around the battle field doling out destruction with lightning-fast anime style.
It is from The Director's commentary. The Exact quote. "So, the story weirdly didn't change all that much from the initial proposal that I sent over. I sent over an early treatment and a Script. But, they pulled back a lot on the amount of dialog that I had because I Had a lot of expositional dialog And they pulled back and I think that improved it."
The only thing that changed was the amount of dialog.
And I maintain that the suit is 9-10 feet tall and the design of the suit is still canon as we see it two other times.
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I said human-like, and yes they did.
That is a female Elite. Something we have never seen before. Also in the Directors Commentary Frank O'Connor says, "If we ever do another historical look at a Female elite this will be the Prototype for it."
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Have you ever tried to fit that much hair into a helmet? Having hair that's less than shoulder length is one thing, having a huge mane that reaches to lower back, or dreadlocks that take up a lot of space is quite another. Neither was Halsey ever blonde, least of all in 2544, when Operation: WARM BLANKET (the events of The Package) takes place. Halsey has black hair, grey in her older age.

And yes, the Sangheili were depicted with evil red bug eyes. And before it's argued that they're goggles, there's a scene where the Supreme Commander clearly blinks.

As for Daisy's death, as depicted she's shot by three Needler rounds - not enough to supercombine, though they do - which then remain embeded in her armor. There is also every reason to believe that she wouldn't hold onto sentimental trinkets, as that's not what Spartan II's do.

The point to all this being yet again that what's seen in the anime is not necessarily canonical.
No but I'm not the one trying to prove that it's impossible and simply posting images of their Hair wont prove that. She's Blonde In this Image of Captain Keyes's Memories with her. I also thought It said she was blonde in Halo the Fall of Reach Book, it doesn't. However, people have been able to change their hair Color for a Long time now. There is no reason to believe she can't.
Bug eyed Implies that their eyes are bulging out of their sockets that’s not what's happening. The Eye lids are just more open. And we can see that the other elites have Normal eye size.
In the Books and in the games the needles still explode without a super combine they're just not as powerful. Based on What? Do you have any proof that Spartans have never and will never hold onto sentimental trinkets?
And you have yet to prove that. The Only Episode that isn't canon is Odd One Out. As for Slight inconsistencies that happens in lots of halo media.

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The lighting in that scene is terrible, but I highlited the Arbiter in green. Sangheili are typically 8 feet tall. 7 if they're on the short end. That Hunter as depicted is monstrously large, well beyond what canon outlines for their size per colony unit. You are also continually providing (thumbnails of) concept art, which is not official canon. It is concept, nothing more. As is, however, Goliaths are not 50 feet or anywhere near. A single Hunter is 12 feet tall. As Goliath's are a colony that did not split into bond-brothers, figure that they're 24 feet tall.
It's not the lighting it's the stupid paint filter. Based on this Image the Arbiter is about the same height as the Hunter's Thigh. Using that we can use his thigh to get a ruff estimate on its height. It seem to be about 4 times the height of the Arbiter or around 32 feet tall maybe less maybe more. But that is nowhere near 50 feet. So what if its Concept art, it’s the only depiction of its height and you assuming it's height is just stacking two Hunters on one another is just that an assumption. Hunters do get larger over time. The Worms in the colony reproduce till the Hunter get large enough and it splits into two bond brothers. The 12 feet tall Hunter Is mostly just a Game thing. Realistically hunters are not going to all be the same size. Again, there is no known limit to how large a Mgalekgolo colony can get.
Snockooz wrote:
  1. That outright states that they are a branch of the Military.
  2. Nowhere does it stated that Spartan is their Rank.
  3. This has zero to do with Spartans under special conditions, like Jerome, Fred, Kurt, and Chief.
  4. This doesn't some how change the fact that there are Spartans with Ranks that aren't specifically related to Spartans Like Palmer's Rank.
1. Uh, yeah. That's why I said they're both.
2. Are you kidding? It's right there in the very first sentence. "Unlike other branches, which maintain escalating rank systems, all Spartans are considered equal, their standing and specialization determined by personal skill alone"3. Correct; Blue Team (current) opted to remain under ONI Section III, rather than integrate into the Spartan IV program and Spartan Operations branch. Red Team has been missing since 2531, and have not been offered the option of integration just yet. So whether Jerome retains his rank of Senior Chief Petty Officer - or is officially promoted to Commander - remains yet to be seen.
4. [Not one of your points] Jerome leaping from E-8 to O-5 isn't how things work, even in the UNSC's rendition of Military Advancement. Even Fred-104 is only a Lieutenant, Junior Grade (O-2), and Kurt-051 was only a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). Jerome's rank is a formality - yet again - intended to boost morale. It does not confer onto him the authorities of the actual O-4 ranking, nor does he actually hold that rank.

This tangent diverting from my point that Jerome being a "super-Spartan" with souped up armor and a remote-piloted Mantis is very likely non-cannonical.

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Their Contour doesn't change their width.
This image shows the Phantoms aligned properly. As you can see, even from your Halo 5 approximation, the Spartans are located in slightly different areas, due to the difference in the Phantom's contours. No matter, though, as the Phantoms were made to be the same size, taking into account the foot difference. In this image color is overlapped onto the Spartan IV and the prototype suit; blue for the Spartan, red for the Prototype. Overlaying those images, it can be very clearly seen that there is about a foot - maybe a foot and a half - difference between the two. Furthermore, it should be noted yet again that the profile of the Prototype suit does not fit with human biology. Not even the Spartan IV would be able to wear that suit without - to be clear - breaking his legs off at the hips and reattaching them off to the side, cinching the torso tighter than a corset would achieve, and mashing the arms up to fit into the gorilla-like forearms of the suit itself.

YET AGAIN, I am also not saying that the suit is not canonical. Quite the opposite; the suit - as I have said many, many times - is canonical. The REPRESENTATION in that anime is quite possibly not, with Johnson's "Green Machine" being closer to truth. Add a helmet to Green Machine, and you've got the same look as from The Fall of Reach (which took visual liberties itself,) and Midnight Into The Heart of Midlothian.

As for the suit's size and Mantises, I'm saying that it would have to BE as tall as a Mantis - as depicted in the anime - to work without killing it's pilot. As you even quote below, and subsequently ignore.

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That is a female Elite.
And their male Sangheili. I didn't know Sangheili had noses and lips. The point still being that what was depicted in those anime films - visually - is less-than-reliable as canonical.

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No but I'm not the one trying to prove that it's impossible and simply posting images of their Hair wont prove that.
It's a matter of rationality, snock. You're going to have to use rational reasoning here, because I don't have a slew of pictures for a huge mass of hair being fit into a close-fitting helmet. That much hair takes up a lot of space. A lot. The Mjolnir helmets are close to the head and do not allow for a great deal of hair. What's more, as the UNSC models itself strongly after several existing Military forces, Naval hair regulations very likely apply, in where a woman's hair is not permitted to extend more than level below the collar of her uniform.

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She's Blonde In this Image of Captain Keyes's Memories with her.
No, she's not. That's the light reflecting off her hair. The Fall of Reach also notes that Halsey had several grey hairs showing, so black is her natural hair color; greys don't show when you dye your hair. She's also depicted in the animes with blonde hair in Homecoming, which take place during the events of The Fall of Reach, so it's illogically inconsistent that she would dye her hair blonde; both on Reach and during 2544.

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Bug eyed Implies that their eyes are bulging out of their sockets that’s not what's happening.
Could have fooled me with how ridiculously big they are. But thanks again for pointing out another massive inconsistency in character depiction within the animes.

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In the Books and in the games the needles still explode without a super combine they're just not as powerful.
But apparently powerful enough to blast through Mjolnir armor like it's a Stormtrooper suit? Sure.

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Based on What? Do you have any proof that Spartans have never and will never hold onto sentimental trinkets?
There are many instances throughout the books where Spartan II's specifically ignore and repress ancillary circumstances to complete their various missions. Hanging a bear trinket - especially given by one's clone - would be nothing but a distraction on the field, offers no tactical purpose or advantage, and more than likely violates several UNSC equipment regulations and ordinances.

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And you have yet to prove that.
You must not be reading very closely what I'm writting, or ignoring the inflections that I'm formating onto the text. What we see HAPPEN? Absolutely canonical. HOW we see it happen and HOW things are DEPICTED VISUALLY? Not so much, for various reasons listed above. All tying back to the biological impossibility of the anime Prototype Mark I.

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Based on this Image the Arbiter is about the same height as the Hunter's Thigh.
Are you kidding? He's literally standing on the Hunter's calf.

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So what if its Concept art
Concept art is - by nature - conceptual and not the final, canonical product.
2. Are you kidding? It's right there in the very first sentence. "Unlike other branches, which maintain escalating rank systems, all Spartans are considered equal, their standing and specialization determined by personal skill alone"4. [Not one of your points] Jerome leaping from E-8 to O-5 isn't how things work, even in the UNSC's rendition of Military Advancement. Even Fred-104 is only a Lieutenant, Junior Grade (O-2), and Kurt-051 was only a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). Jerome's rank is a formality - yet again - intended to boost morale. It does not confer onto him the authorities of the actual O-4 ranking, nor does he actually hold that rank.

This tangent diverting from my point that Jerome being a "super-Spartan" with souped up armor and a remote-piloted Mantis is very likely non-cannonical.
Being Considered Equal and Having Spartan be their Rank are not the same thing. It also says that their standing, something that has for more correlation to a rank, is determined by personal skill.

I said Multiple times that when they reintegrate into the UNSC, Jersome may be give a different Rank.

It being a Formality doesn’t change the fact that it is his current Rank.

Super Spartan? Souped up armor? Where are either of those stated?

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This image shows the Phantoms aligned properly. As you can see, even from your Halo 5 approximation, the Spartans are located in slightly different areas, due to the difference in the Phantom's contours. No matter, though, as the Phantoms were made to be the same size, taking into account the foot difference. In this image color is overlapped onto the Spartan IV and the prototype suit; blue for the Spartan, red for the Prototype. Overlaying those images, it can be very clearly seen that there is about a foot - maybe a foot and a half - difference between the two.

YET AGAIN, I am also not saying that the suit is not canonical. Quite the opposite; the suit - as I have said many, many times - is canonical. The REPRESENTATION in that anime is quite possibly not, with Johnson's "Green Machine" being closer to truth. Add a helmet to Green Machine, and you've got the same look as from The Fall of Reach (which took visual liberties itself,) and Midnight Into The Heart of Midlothian.

As for the suit's size and Mantises, I'm saying that it would have to BE as tall as a Mantis - as depicted in the anime - to work without killing it's pilot. As you even quote below, and subsequently ignore.
Wow… You made the Type 57 larger than the type 52 even though the 52 is the one that is larger. You really don't like being wrong do you? Ignoring the fact that you blatantly made to the 57 larger to make the Spartan closer in height. I also Looked closer at the Back fin images and you can see that the Fin itself is at different angles. The Fins are design to change angles so that’s nothing new. But keeping that in mind using other parts of the Wraith is better for a more accurate Height.

No Its not… They are both clearly using the design from the Prototype episode.
I'm not ignoring it. I'm just say that doesn't mean it's not canon.

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And their male Sangheili. I didn't know Sangheili had noses and lips. The point still being that what was depicted in those anime films - visually - is less-than-reliable as canonical.
They don't have a nose or lips. That was just a weird angle making it look like he has a nose. The mandibles are simply parting in way to make his teeth visible.
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It's a matter of rationality, snock. You're going to have to use rational reasoning here, because I don't have a slew of pictures for a huge mass of hair being fit into a close-fitting helmet. That much hair takes up a lot of space. A lot. The Mjolnir helmets are close to the head and do not allow for a great deal of hair. What's more, as the UNSC models itself strongly after several existing Military forces, Naval hair regulations very likely apply, in where a woman's hair is not permitted to extend more than level below the collar of her uniform.
I am and rationally there is no reason to believe that much hair can't fit in her helmet. Spartan's are known to wear their armor for long periods of time. She easily could have just not had the time to cut it. This is a war and Spartans are constantly on missions.
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No, she's not. That's the light reflecting off her hair. The Fall of Reach also notes that Halsey had several grey hairs showing, so black is her natural hair color; greys don't show when you dye your hair. She's also depicted in the animes with blonde hair in Homecoming, which take place during the events of The Fall of Reach, so it's illogically inconsistent that she would dye her hair blonde; both on Reach and during 2544.
I disagree. No But dyed hair fades after a while as the hair grows and is cut. Do you know specifically when that takes place and can show that she didn't have blonde hair at the time? The fall of reach book an comic take place over a very long period of time. Can you show that during the events of 2544 the she didn't have blonde hair.
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Could have fooled me with how ridiculously big they are. But thanks again for pointing out another massive inconsistency in character depiction within the animes.
It's not an inconsistency it just shows that they have slightly different physical traits than the other elites under their command. There are people born with wider eyes than other people. No reason to believe that the same can't be said for elites.
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But apparently powerful enough to blast through Mjolnir armor like it's a Stormtrooper suit? Sure.
Yep just like how a single plasma pistol shot is powerful enough to make a whole in Mark 4 as well.
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There are many instances throughout the books where Spartan II's specifically ignore and repress ancillary circumstances to complete their various missions. Hanging a bear trinket - especially given by one's clone - would be nothing but a distraction on the field, offers no tactical purpose or advantage, and more than likely violates several UNSC equipment regulations and ordinances.
You mind posting those instances? Because I recall many times where a spartan took other Spartan's dog tags even though doing so had zero tactical purpose or advantage. There is no reason to believe that’s something that small would be a distraction. Do you mind providing that regulation?
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You must not be reading very closely what I'm writting, or ignoring the inflections that I'm formating onto the text. What we see HAPPEN? Absolutely canonical. HOW we see it happen and HOW things are DEPICTED VISUALLY? Not so much, for various reasons listed above. All tying back to the biological impossibility of the anime Prototype Mark I.
No I have and I haven't ignored any of it either. You just haven't provide anything that proves any of this wrong.
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Are you kidding? He's literally standing on the Hunter's calf.
Yes and based on that image he is about the same height as the Hunter's thigh. You can stand on things that are 4 times your height.
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Concept art is - by nature - conceptual and not the final, canonical product.
And if the only thing you have that shows an aspect of something is it's concept art than is what you use. Also the height of things in Halo have never really changed from concept art to final product especially for the things in halo wars 2. The only thing that changes is their overall look. It's also show in Gameplay them being that large.
It's not really a Mech. I mean yeah all those things are called Mecha. But this is an Exo Suit, Power Armor, etc. Kinda like Battle Tech / Mech Warrior / Mech Assault, even Warhammer. Whereas Spartans are augmented, and their outer skin suits are like...like a bio exoskeleton. It's pretty much like an ant. So I don't know the problem. If it's too Anime, then I guess they hate the Halo Legends movie (IE like the Ani Matrix). But, personally I think it's awesome. I think Isaac Clarke would be awesome in something like this. But, people complain for the worst things, and just to complain.
Snockooz wrote:
It being a Formality doesn’t change the fact that it is his current Rank.
Yes, actually it does. A very good example of this: I have an employee right now who's father is a "General". Rank-wise he is a Colonel, as he hasn't been awarded the rank of Brigadier General just yet. Calling him a General is a formality, as everyone knows that it's coming, but he does not actually hold that rank yet. Jerome being a Commander is no different.

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Super Spartan? Souped up armor? Where are either of those stated?
It is seen in Multiplayer gameplay of Halo Wars 2.

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Wow… You made the Type 57 larger than the type 52 even though the 52 is the one that is larger.
No, I only aligned the images. There was no resize of images used.

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No Its not… They are both clearly using the design from the Prototype episode.
Not exactly, as they've expanded the waist area to accommodate for actual human hips, something the anime depictions does not have. As depicted in the anime, human hips would either be massively broken, or femurs would be splayed out to the side like a lizard. It is not biologically viable, ergo great artistic liberties were taken in the anime. Johnson's "Green Machine" is a more realistic - and likely canonical - depiction of the Prototype.

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They don't have a nose or lips. That was just a weird angle making it look like he has a nose.
Or a weird angle making it seem like he doesn't on your end. There is a clear shadow under his nasal area that indicates the lighted area is protruding, as a nose does. The area around his very un-Sangheili mouth is also darker, as lips are. Point being the entirety of Halo Legends is a very poor example for visual canon. This goes for Halsey with blonde hair, and the Sangheili with massive bug-eyes. This is not a matter of wider eyes; the size of those eyes is downright unbelievable compared to other Sangheili phenotypes we've seen.

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Yep just like how a single plasma pistol shot is powerful enough to make a whole in Mark 4 as well.
Mark IV armor didn't benefit from shields at the time Sam died. Regardless, a single Needler round would not do that much damage.

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You mind posting those instances? Because I recall many times where a spartan took other Spartan's dog tags even though doing so had zero tactical purpose or advantage.
No, taking dogtags is a standard military action, and confirms that the soldier is KIA. It is far different than having emotional memorabilia.

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And if the only thing you have that shows an aspect of something is it's concept art than is what you use. Also the height of things in Halo have never really changed from concept art to final product especially for the things in halo wars 2. The only thing that changes is their overall look. It's also show in Gameplay them being that large.
Having nothing else but concept art doesn't make it suddenly canon. It remains conceptual. As for the size of units in the RTS game, they are also not to scale at all. Show a troop of marines next to a Scorpion; they are either larger than they should be, or the Scorpion is smaller than it should be.
It's not really a Mech. I mean yeah all those things are called Mecha. But this is an Exo Suit, Power Armor, etc. Kinda like Battle Tech / Mech Warrior / Mech Assault, even Warhammer. Whereas Spartans are augmented, and their outer skin suits are like...like a bio exoskeleton. It's pretty much like an ant. So I don't know the problem. If it's too Anime, then I guess they hate the Halo Legends movie (IE like the Ani Matrix). But, personally I think it's awesome. I think Isaac Clarke would be awesome in something like this. But, people complain for the worst things, and just to complain.
Please don't revive old topics thanks
Yes, actually it does. A very good example of this: I have an employee right now who's father is a "General". Rank-wise he is a Colonel, as he hasn't been awarded the rank of Brigadier General just yet. Calling him a General is a formality, as everyone knows that it's coming, but he does not actually hold that rank yet. Jerome being a Commander is no different.
That is a completely different situation. They both Are about a military rank sure but that’s it. The Person in your example Is Going to be awarded the Rank of General sometime soon. However, Jerome Has been awarded the Rank of Commander. In your Example you are saying that a only after a person is awarded their rank do they actually have that rank. By that definition Jerome does indeed have the Rank of Commander.
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With the authority granted to him as the ranking Navy and UEG official in a designated administrative region, Captain Cutter has conferred Jerome-092 the acting rank of Commander. The rank itself is a formality, but one insisted on by Isabel to better align the ship’s ad-hoc command structure with the letter of UNSC regulations.
Captain Cutter has conferred Jerome-092 the acting rank of Commander.
Confer
verb
past tense: conferred; past participle: conferred
grant or bestow (a title, degree, benefit, or right).
"moves were made to confer an honorary degree on her"

It is seen in Multiplayer gameplay of Halo Wars 2.
I still Have no idea what you are talking about. Are you talking about the Backpack? Because Spartans have been shown many times with large equipment on their backs.

No, I only aligned the images. There was no resize of images used.
No You made the type 57 larger. I aligned them initially and made them the same size even though the 52 is larger. On yours you can very clearly see that the Side fins of the 57 extend well beyond the fins of the 52. Here's a Side by side. Yeah, your's clearly has the image of the 57 scaled up. Even with you scale up version the Mech suits is still a good foot taller at least

Not exactly, as they've expanded the waist area to accommodate for actual human hips, something the anime depictions does not have. As depicted in the anime, human hips would either be massively broken, or femurs would be splayed out to the side like a lizard. It is not biologically viable, ergo great artistic liberties were taken in the anime. Johnson's "Green Machine" is a more realistic - and likely canonical - depiction of the Prototype.
OK… That doesn't change my point. They are all still using the same design. Beside slight inconsistencies that are going to happen in 2 different mediums using 2 different art styles. A Design distinctly different from the one we see in Halo wars 2.

Or a weird angle making it seem like he doesn't on your end. There is a clear shadow under his nasal area that indicates the lighted area is protruding, as a nose does. The area around his very un-Sangheili mouth is also darker, as lips are. Point being the entirety of Halo Legends is a very poor example for visual canon. This goes for Halsey with blonde hair, and the Sangheili with massive bug-eyes. This is not a matter of wider eyes; the size of those eyes is downright unbelievable compared to other Sangheili phenotypes we've seen.
Ok. Heres more angles. There are plenty of elites designs that Have that have varying degrees of color around their mandibles that’s not proof they have lips. Halsey's Hair is another thing you have yet to prove false. Halsey is part of ONI a very secretive branch of Military. Who's people go under cover all the time. One of the many things people do when going under cover is changing their hair color because it is a very easy way to make your self look different. Both Halo 2 and Halo 3 Had Elites with very large bulging eyes.
Mark IV armor didn't benefit from shields at the time Sam died. Regardless, a single Needler round would not do that much damage.
The Armor She is using doesn't have shields either so what's your point.
1.She didn't get hit by a single needle round. 2.Exactly what evidence do you have that would prove that needler rounds wouldn't do that much damage? Keep in mind that Mark 4 was upgraded several time during the Human Covenant war before they were told to use the Mark system for any farther MJOLNIR upgrades.

Having nothing else but concept art doesn't make it suddenly canon. It remains conceptual. As for the size of units in the RTS game, they are also not to scale at all. Show a troop of marines next to a Scorpion; they are either larger than they should be, or the Scorpion is smaller than it should be.
There are plenty of instance of concept art being Canon. However arguing this is kind of moot as you have yet to provide any evidence to suggest that Hunters can't get as big as we see them in The Dual.
I think most of Master Chief's skill relies on speed and agility. In the context of plasma fire (in universe) and what it can do to armor) a giant mech suit is a stupid idea. Anything you gain in power you are more than giving up in speed and agility.
I think most of Master Chief's skill relies on speed and agility. In the context of plasma fire (in universe) and what it can do to armor) a giant mech suit is a stupid idea. Anything you gain in power you are more than giving up in speed and agility.
You should go watch the Halo Legend Prototype Episode. Trust me he won't be losing any speed and that suit's Armor is much more resilient that Normal MJOLNIR or at least Gen 1 Armors.
I have no problem with it to be honest. Nobody in my gaming clan has either. This is actually the first i'm learning of a problem with him using a mech suit. personally I think it adds to the fun of the game and makes him seem more human.
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In your Example you are saying that a only after a person is awarded their rank do they actually have that rank. By that definition Jerome does indeed have the Rank of Commander.
No, I'm saying there's a difference between being a General Select (or relative to Jerome an "Acting Commander") and a full-authority General. In the quote you give from Halo Wars 2, you're focusing on the wrong thing entirely. Yes, confer means bestow or grant. However what was it that Captain Cutter conferred Jerome? Acting Commander. Which, as I explained several months ago, is not the actual rank. It's more for show and expedience. It's a "Field Promotion", which do not take official effect until granted in official measure. Once on a peacetime standing, soldiers given field promotions are required to meet the normal requirements for rank in order to retain (keep) their field promoted rank. Meaning that once the Spirit of Fire rejoins the UNSC and is debriefed on their decades-long-ordeal, Jerome will have to meet the requirements for Commander if he wants to keep the rank. If not, he will once again be a Senior Chief Petty Officer.

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"moves were made to confer an honorary degree on her"
This bit is especially damning to your argument, in irony, as "honorary degrees" are practically worthless. They're honorary, exactly like the rank of Acting Commander.

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I still Have no idea what you are talking about.
It's been explained. Yes, his backpack is one indication of non-canonical representation. His neural-link to a Mantis, allowing him to remote control it is another; that technology doesn't exist in the Halo Universe. (And no, "it can't be shown that it doesn't" isn't good enough to prove it so). Not to mention that the Hydra didn't enter into service until 2556, and widespread service in 2558.

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Even with you scale up version the Mech suits is still a good foot taller at least
Sure. Granting this foot difference, it's still not tall enough for a human to man and remain anatomically sound, nor does it factor in to the absolutely anatomically impossible hip structure of the anime depiction. Which is my point; you note that they "used the same design", only they made it far more realistic to the Halo Universe. Which means that the real Prototype suit - true to canon - probably can't leap around, practically fly, and act like a ruttin' Gundam. What we see in Halo Wars 2 is most likely the truest to canon, and what's more such a suit is absolutely redundant for a Spartan. Not to mention that the Prototype would go on to become the Mantis, which we do get to pilot, and the closest that we'd get to what you're wanting is the so-called "Mega Mantis" seen on the multiplayer map Adrift.

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There are plenty of elites designs that Have that have varying degrees of color around their mandibles that’s not proof they have lips.
And yet the anime did try to make them look more human like. This is something noted by Frankie himself. This - coupled with other examples - further lends to my point that the visual representations that we get in Halo Legends are not reliable for canon. And yes, this includes Halsey's hair, which no, I do not need to prove that she didn't dye her hair for brief periods of time "just because". Neither is Halsey a part of ONI; she was a civilian attache to the Spartan Project, funded by ONI but in no means an ONI agent. She would not go on missions or go undercover for anything outside the parameters of her project, or have any need to dye her hair "just because". Such even goes against her pure-necessity, logic driven personality anyways.
And they eyes that you display from Halo 2 and 3 are nowhere near as large as they are in The Package.

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There are plenty of instance of concept art being Canon.
And then it becomes implemented canonical representation. What's not used isn't, and what you show was not used, and is thus non-canonical. It's not a complicated process or concept.
However what was it that Captain Cutter conferred Jerome? Acting Commander. Which, as I explained several months ago, is not the actual rank.
An Acting Rank is an Actual Rank. It doesn't matter that their rank maybe changed at a later date. Until that date comes you are to address that individual as if that is their rank. You do not address them as Acting (Blank) you Address them as (Blank). If you were in the Military and someone with an Acting Rank above you gave you an order and you defied that order it would be seen as insubordination. You could be court martialed for that and you would definitely be court martialed if the reasoning behind your defiance was "They only have an Acting Rank it not their actual Rank". That is a Ludicrous claim and undermines the entire point of an Acting Rank.

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This bit is especially damning to your argument, in irony, as "honorary degrees" are practically worthless. They're honorary, exactly like the rank of Acting Commander.
No They actually have very little in common. The Point of an honorary degrees is to honor someone for whatever reason. Like you said it is basically worthless. An Acting Rank is not worthless as the individual is given all the benefits and drawbacks of having that Rank because for all intensive purposes that is their Rank.

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It's been explained. Yes, his backpack is one indication of non-canonical representation. His neural-link to a Mantis, allowing him to remote control it is another; that technology doesn't exist in the Halo Universe. (And no, "it can't be shown that it doesn't" isn't good enough to prove it so). Not to mention that the Hydra didn't enter into service until 2556, and widespread service in 2558.
So Do you have any idea what that Backpack even does? Or are you just saying it not canon because reasons? I have already explained why that Mantis having a neural-link is very much possible. What proof do you have that a the technology to remote control a vehicle doesn't exist in the Halo Universe? They have Drones in the Halo Universe that aren't all that much different form Military Spy drones today. Do you have any proof to indicate that with the schematics of the Hydra launch(which Isabel would have) that the Spirit Of Fire couldn't make one?
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Sure. Granting this foot difference, it's still not tall enough for a human to man and remain anatomically sound, nor does it factor in to the absolutely anatomically impossible hip structure of the anime depiction. Which is my point; you note that they "used the same design", only they made it far more realistic to the Halo Universe. Which means that the real Prototype suit - true to canon - probably can't leap around, practically fly, and act like a ruttin' Gundam. What we see in Halo Wars 2 is most likely the truest to canon, and what's more such a suit is absolutely redundant for a Spartan. Not to mention that the Prototype would go on to become the Mantis, which we do get to pilot, and the closest that we'd get to what you're wanting is the so-called "Mega Mantis" seen on the multiplayer map Adrift.
The impossible Hip structure of the suit is something that I have at no point ever tried to contest. The Point I do contest is your assumption that the Armor in Halo Wars 2 is the armor In Halo Legend Prototype when we have 2 other instances of the Halo Legends design being used. I don't care what you head canon is, unless you can prove it, it's not canon. Oh look Gundam again. I see your bring that assumption back in to this debate. Again It doesn't matter that the tech use in the Prototype suit would eventually be use for the Mantis they are still 2 very different pieces of technology. The Technology used to create the automobile would eventually be used to create both the Tank and the Humvee two vehicles that have two very different purposes. The Mega Mantis is not something I want in Halo. I find tall two legged Mechs especially Chicken walkers like the Mantis to be really dumb actually. They are by far the most impractical vehicles that have been brought in to Halo and that's saying a lot. Did you know that the Mantis is the only vehicle in halo that can't be flip over? You want to know why? Because if they added the physics required to do that to the Mantis all you would need to do is ram into it with a Ghost or spartan charge it and the thing would fall over. That’s not ever taking into consideration the maintenance for such a vehicle or the fact that all you need to do is take out one of it's joints to make it completely immobile. The Spider walkers the Covenant have are for more practical give their low center of gravity and their weight being distributed over a much larger area. Even if you were to take out one of its legs it is still very possible for it to compensate with the 3 legs remaining allowing it to still move. I have at no point in this thread been asking for massive two legged mechs. If I was I would just be asking for the Cyclops as it is far more practical and in my opinion far more interesting looking than most all other Large UNSC Mechs.

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This is something noted by Frankie himself. This - coupled with other examples - further lends to my point that the visual representations that we get in Halo Legends are not reliable for canon. And yes, this includes Halsey's hair, which no, I do not need to prove that she didn't dye her hair for brief periods of time "just because". Neither is Halsey a part of ONI; she was a civilian attache to the Spartan Project, funded by ONI but in no means an ONI agent.
In that Quote he is specially talking about the Female Elite. Again we have yet to see any other Female Elites since then. And Like I Said before, in the Directors Commentary Frank O'Connor says, "If we ever do another historical look at a Female elite this will be the Prototype for it." Visual Retcons do Happen But that is only if they are specially stated or shown to be a Retcon.
Yes you actual do need to prove she didn't dye her hair. And Yes She is a part of ONI. She is a scientific adviser for ONI that is being a part of ONI. To be a Part of something you have to have a Connection to it and Halsey does indeed have a connection to ONI. Stop using semantics to try and win small victories. I never said she was an ONI Agent.
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She would not go on missions or go undercover for anything outside the parameters of her project, or have any need to dye her hair "just because". Such even goes against her pure-necessity, logic driven personality anyways.
All of this is your assumption you have zero proof to indicate that any of it is true. Also what proof do you have that she wasn't undercover for her current Project? You do understand that she has had various different projects and Various different duties as a scientific adviser for ONI?
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And they eyes that you display from Halo 2 and 3 are nowhere near as large as they are in The and the Halo 2 Elite eyes bulged out as well.
Actually they are very close is size and the Halo 2 Elite eyes bulged out as well.

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And then it becomes implemented canonical representation. What's not used isn't, and what you show was not used, and is thus non-canonical. It's not a complicated process or concept.
That's Nice. You still have yet to prove that Hunters cant get that large.
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