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Why do people hate Spartan IV's?

OP Imperator Rage

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Because they are mass produced and clearly intended to show that they are superior to Spartan IIs and free of all those horrible crimes such as kidnapping and raising children to be the perfect soldiers. 'Better' armor, training, morality, ethics, augmentations. Having 'personality' when it is the mark of a poor writer who cannot make a career soldier interesting beyond one-liners, snappy comebacks and talking a lot. They were created in the dark and shoved out into the light and expected to be met with praise.

They are, much like the Infinity, designed to be 'great' without actually doing anything to actual earn the respect that 343i expects them to be given. And much like 343i's attempt to erase Bungie's influence, it very clearly failed.
They were created in the dark and shoved out into the light and expected to be met with praise.
Gee, kind of like the Master Chief? Or what about Noble Six? Same shadows, same expectations.

You know, at least the Spartan IV's are given proper introduction before we see them in-game. We get a glimpse as to what makes them viable candidates - whether you agree with it or not - rather than them just being thrust out as the hero (Contrary to your claims here). And this whole line of argument is especially silly, considering that these are characters, not real people, and will be written however they are to be. Hero or villain. Your acceptance of that or not. You can't rationally balk at them and say "Well, they're just written to be awesome" when everything in this universe is written to be awesome. As we found out in the Fall of Reach, John-117's been designed to be "great" since he was six, and then designed more on top of that. The Spartan IV's at least had to earn their ranks and accomplishments the old fashioned way.
Of course they're fictional characters. So are Iron Man, Captain America and all the other Marvel superheroes. Didn't keep people from crying after Endgame though. You can build an bond with anything, be it emotional or just respect. That's how our brains work. That is why we like the Chief, why we liked Cortana. That's why we get the constant rehash of 'SERGEANT JOHNSON IS ALIVE!!!11' threads. People care about this kind of stuff despite the fact that they shouldn't.

It's the mark of a GOOD writer/creator if you've made something that has limited screen time but makes people happy or sad about it.

Spartan-IVs are not that. They have done very little to earn the respect of the players because they are written poorly but yet held on a high pedestal simply because they were new things that 343i made. They're inferior but written to be superior simply for the sake of it. We are told, rather than shown, why they are 'better'. It is expected of us to like all Spartan IV characters because of that, not through actually showing us why they are 'better'. Just like the Infinity, which was designed to be this ultimate Hero Ship that has, to date, pretty much just gotten boarded by intruders and nearly crippled in every engagement.

We're still expected to worship it as the best ship evar, though. Simply because it is big, shiny and supposedly 'powerful'. It also just so happens to one of the flagships of 343i's creative team.

Look at other ships in the universe, like the Pillar of Autumn, In Amber Clad, Forward Unto Dawn (before 343i retconned it into some dumb looking mess). If anything, the single best example of a ship earning the player's respect is the Savannah. You fight alongside it and you see it hold it's own against the Covenant Corvette above Reach.

But to be honest, I saw there were 599 posts in the thread and I suddenly really just wanted the 600th post. No real reason other than I just wanted it.
Of course they're fictional characters. So are Iron Man, Captain America and all the other Marvel superheroes. Didn't keep people from crying after Endgame though. You can build an bond with anything, be it emotional or just respect. That's how our brains work.
I think you misunderstand me.

The criticism is thrown out that we're presented with these characters who are Great only because we're told they're great. Yet this applies for every single character, including the Master Chief. Worse for him, I'd argue, as we're told that he's been Great since he was six. No explanation, just He Is Great. The Spartan IV's had to rise to that greatness, earn it, and many have.

I can't speak for you, but there are those of us - myself included - who like Vale, Locke, Thorne, and even Palmer just as much as Chief and Cortana. I would actually be fairly upset if Palmer is absent in Halo Infinite. I am quite upset that attention is being drawn away from Fireteam Osiris because people raged enough to keep the camera on the Chief.

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Spartan-IVs are not that. They have done very little to earn the respect of the players because they are written poorly but yet held on a high pedestal simply because they were new things that 343i made.
No, they are not held on a higher pedestal. Not even in-universe. All Spartan IV candidates, during training, are shown the Chief's Mk VI helmet to impress upon them the standards that they are expected to live up to. And while they may not have your respect doesn't mean there aren't players who do respect them; you cannot speak for everyone.

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They're inferior but written to be superior simply for the sake of it.
This makes zero sense. At all. Remember before, when we went over the Spartans being fictional characters reliant on their writing? If they are written as superior, then they are superior. End of story. You thus have no factual basis to judge them as "inferior despite writing" other than your opinion, and opinions don't make for facts.

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We are told, rather than shown, why they are 'better'.
Forgoing the "better" part, as they're not even claimed to be that in-universe, we are shown how they are exceptional. Palmer fought off a Covenant invasion and extracted Admiral Kovalic and the base AI. She has also demonstrated concern for those under her command and significant combat prowess in defending the Infinity and carrying out orders to infiltrate Jul's stronghold to execute Dr. Halsey. Buck has quite a long campaign - including surviving two planetary invasions - that quialified him for the Spartan Program. Locke has history as an ONI acquisitions agent, including a tour on the fragment of Installation 04. Thorne fought off multiple Sangheili with no helmet or weapon of his own before being subdued.

These are things we have seen.

In contrast, we're just told that John is lucky. We're just told that Noble Six (and his heavily-redacted file) is "hyperlethal".

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Just like the Infinity, which was designed to be this ultimate Hero Ship that has, to date, pretty much just gotten boarded by intruders and nearly crippled in every engagement.

We're still expected to worship it as the best ship evar, though. Simply because it is big, shiny and supposedly 'powerful'. It also just so happens to one of the flagships of 343i's creative team.
No, we're not expected to "worship" the Infinity. It is, however, factually an experimental and significantly powerful ship within the UNSC arsenal within it's own right. We have seen it damage a Forerunner ship, as well as repell assault once it's systems were brought back online (being brought offline by a significantly more powerful force is no shame). We have read of the Infinity's actions on Sanghelios, as well as, yes, being attacked, boarded, and crippled. Yet it keeps on sailing.

Is the Pillar of Autum any better? We've heard about it being crippled on Arcadia, while doing next to nothing. We've seen it flee Reach and crash on Installation 04. Sure, it made it past the Covenant blockade, but it was still boarded. Then sat dead until it was destroyed. In Amber Clad? It's greatest achievement was catching up to the Solemn Penance. Most notable for being taken by the Flood and crashing into High Charity. Forward Unto Dawn? No great acomplishment either; we're only told it's cool. And while what the Savannah did was quite noble, it's not considerably noteworthy. It fought off the Covenant and was destroyed, as hundreds of ships before it.

As for the Forward Unto Dawn's look, earlier you criticized that we're shown the Infinity and expected to like it because it looks cool. But you expect the same with the Dawn? The Autumn looks like a brick.
Hey, if that's what get you through the night, then you can keep on believing it. Spartan IVs don't deserve the level of respect we're expected to give them.
Spartan IVs don't deserve the level of respect we're expected to give them.
Why. Because you don't like them? Or because you don't like 343?
It's both, really.

Let's look at it this way. The only Spartan IVs that we're exposed to in Spartan Ops is a group of incompetent fools and Palmer and yet, we're pushed to like and respect them despite the fact that really the only person carrying the operation at all is you, the player. Who may as well be a non-entity in regards to the actual story of Spartan Ops. In Halo 5, we're playing a bunch of unlikable people that are absolutely boring (yes, even Buck because 343i wanted /someone/ the fans liked in the squad) and have about as much chemistry as wood soaking into untreated wood. All you do is go chase after the character everyone would rather be playing, and then you end up cleaning up a mess.

All of that, I might add, is because 343i wanted to move away from the Chief as the main character.

There's only one Spartan-IV that has actually earned the right to be not be hated, and yet she is anyway for all the wrong reasons. Palmer has a backstory, she has earned her place in command of the Spartan-IVs on Infinity through her actions of the story of Spartan Assault. She is exceedingly competent during the events of Spartan Ops, and is a good commander as well as being a skilled enough soldier to survive a crash that would have otherwise killed her (and her passenger) in Halo 5.

She is the example of what Spartan-IVs should be. Instead the only ones that we get and are expected to like and respect are a bunch of frat boys in skinsuits and a boring linguistics expert, some edgelordy colonist, a washed up ODST who shouldn't even be there and Luke Cage. You want to know why people don't like Spartan-IVs? There's your answer.

It doesn't matter that there might be other examples elsewhere. These are the ones that people interacted with the most and thus, they've rightly colored people's perceptions of Spartan-IVs as being a bunch of boring, incompetent losers that are supposed to be and treated like they are equals or superior to Spartan-IIs. Hell, two seconds after you meet them in Halo 4 Cortana (a character who the player likes and trusts and has a emotional bond with) goes 'They replaced you!'. First impressions go a long way and all of those did not but leave a sour taste in everyone's mouths.

Listen, I'm not gonna change your mind and you're not going to change mine and frankly, I've grown bored with the discussion (I wasn't all that invested in the first place, I just wanted the 600th post for my own personal amusement cause and to end my boredom. You like Spartan-IVs, and I (and a lot of others don't). It's a weird hill you've chosen to fight on, but if you need to continue the fight, leave me out of it.
The only Spartan IVs that we're exposed to in Spartan Ops is a group of incompetent fools and Palmer
Incompetent... how? They were all quite skilled at their jobs, and infact we play as the group who gets captured. We never actually "meet" Crimson Team. As for Majestic? Our introduction to them is as competition. As the Requiem Campaign goes on, however, Majestic shows quite a bit of competency and skill. I think this is baseless accusation.

Just as it's opinion that Osiris is unlikable. Vale is an expert on Sangheili culture and language. Tanaka has valuable insight into the Outer Colonies. Buck is still just as likable (I think you're leaning towards the "343 BAD" side here), and Locke has a humanizing and moral direction for ONI, breaking from a "shadow government" agency. That you don't like them is your right and your prerogative, but it does not make it factually so. Hell, there are people who like and defend Andrew Del Rio, despite him factually being written as unlikable and incometent.

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All of that, I might add, is because 343i wanted to move away from the Chief as the main character.
Ah, and here's the source of rebellion against the IV's. They're not the Chief. Neither was Noble Six or the Rookie, so where's the dislike and ire for them?

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She (Palmer) is the example of what Spartan-IVs should be.
I'll be honest, this one surprised me. I see Palmer get a lot of undue hate, so it's welcoming to see some praise.

However all the Spartan IV main characters that we have are given just as much backstory and skill. Your caracature of Osiris and Majestic also doesn't really answer for why the Spartan IV's are a problem. It's indication for your opinion on a handful of characters, but not the program as a whole. Would it have been more welcome if they were introduced in the Bungie era? I mean, with constant improvements - SII > SIII, Mk IV > Mk V > Mk VI - where did you think the Spartan Program was going to go?

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It doesn't matter that there might be other examples elsewhere. These are the ones that people interacted with the most and thus, they've rightly colored people's perceptions of Spartan-IVs as being a bunch of boring, incompetent losers that are supposed to be and treated like they are equals or superior to Spartan-IIs.
Only none of the Spartan IV's are shown as incompetent, and whether they're boring or not is your opinion. Personally I find Vale's expertise to be very intriguing, especially with the alliance with the Swords of Sanghelios.

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Hell, two seconds after you meet them in Halo 4 Cortana (a character who the player likes and trusts and has a emotional bond with) goes 'They replaced you!'. First impressions go a long way and all of those did not but leave a sour taste in everyone's mouths.
A rampant fragment of Cortana. And no, that wasn't after meeting the Spartan IV's, that was on the way to take out the gravity well. She also said, in full, "They don't care about you - they replaced you!", followed by swearing at her Rampancy. If anything, that throws shade on the UNSC - "they", in context - but what were they supposed to do? Put everything on hold and just hope the Chief returns? Stay in 2552 like so many want to stay in 2007? No.

After meeting the Spartan IV's, speaking of first impressions, we see Palmer caring for the wounded and their evacuation. We see Spartans working as several teams, and providing supporting fire for the Master Chief as he makes his way to the Infinity. Later we see them supporting his disobedient behavior, and becoming complacent in insubordination by letting him leave Infinity with a D79-TC Pelican. First impressions of the Spartan IV's was quite positive.

This is a hill I'll fight on. Not because I like the Spartan IV's, but because I believe the accusations against them to be severely lacking and ill-made. Things were fine when ODST and Marines acted like meat-headed fratboys, but when those same ODST and Marines move on to become Spartans, they're expected to become stoic machines? No, it doesn't work like that.
tL Armada wrote:
Because they are so arrogant but compared to the prior Spartan Programs they are nothing.
Do you dislike all of them or a select few because of their "arrogance"?

I'd also say the exploits of Crimson, Shadow, and Osiris, specifically, call to question the 'nothing compared to the earlier Spartans' notion.
Not all of course but most of them.
I like Buck for example but i just do not understand how they can be so disrespectful to earlier Spartans.
tL Armada wrote:
Because they are so arrogant but compared to the prior Spartan Programs they are nothing.
Do you dislike all of them or a select few because of their "arrogance"?

I'd also say the exploits of Crimson, Shadow, and Osiris, specifically, call to question the 'nothing compared to the earlier Spartans' notion.
Not all of course but most of them.
I like Buck for example but i just do not understand how they can be so disrespectful to earlier Spartans.
Where have most of them shown arrogance? Who was disrespecting earlier Spartans?
I am willing to bet cash money that he's referring to CMD Palmer telling the Chief "I thought you'd be taller". Which is just... absolutely ridiculous to call that disrespect.
I am willing to bet cash money that he's referring to CMD Palmer telling the Chief "I thought you'd be taller". Which is just... absolutely ridiculous to call that disrespect.
I don't know about arrogance but Spartan Ops didn't do a very good job of portraying Spartan 4s in a positive light.
A lot of people don't understand why Palmer was made Spartan Commander despite her previous rank being Corporal. Add that to her general command incompetence during the Requiem campaign as well as her personality and its easy to see why so many don't like her. Throughout Spartan Ops she constantly demeans scientist and unaugmented marines; she is very brash, leaves without telling anyone where she is going, and isn't in control of her emotions which is what led her to fail in her capture of Halsey in Escalations.
While her combat skill is undeniable, Palmer is character who disappointed many in portraying what a Spartan Commander should be.

Other scenes that portray Spartan 4s as appear sub-par is when Hoya actions led to his injury as well as Thorns lacklustre fight with Gek.
That said all this stuff happened a while ago. Since then we have had many new Spartan 4s introduced to us in novels which have given us examples of very professional Spartan 4s as is the case of Fireteam Apollo in Halo Renegades.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
I don't know about arrogance but Spartan Ops didn't do a very good job of portraying Spartan 4s in a positive light.
As with a lot of things, I think this comes down to opinion. I personally thought it did just fine.

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A lot of people don't understand why Palmer was made Spartan Commander despite her previous rank being Corporal.
It sounds like people don't have a general understanding (despite it being made quite clear in Initiation) how the Spartan branch works.

Palmer is the Spartan Commander, but her rank is Spartan. She is the acting Commander - referred to as such, but without officially holding the rank - because of her service among the first class of Spartan IV's and her continued service record while a Spartan IV. Her former rank is Corporal, when she was an ODST and a part of the UNSC Marines. Just as Buck was formerly a Gunnery Sergeant, but is now of the rank Spartan.

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Add that to her general command incompetence during the Requiem campaign
What incompetence? As for her personality, again this is opinion but if you ask me most people need to absolutely get over it. She acts like an ODST is described consistently as acting.

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Throughout Spartan Ops she constantly demeans scientist and unaugmented marines
Calling scientists "eggheads" is not demeaning. No more so than calling Marines "jarheads" or "leathernecks", or soldiers "grunts". Nerds need to get over this. Neither does she demean unaugmented Marines.

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she is very brash, leaves without telling anyone where she is going, and isn't in control of her emotions which is what led her to fail in her capture of Halsey in Escalations.
A lot of characters - particularly of ODST backgrounds - are brash. Never hear much about them. Neither is she required - as Spartan Commander - to report where she is going, especially when it involves a high-risk prisoner. Reports float up the chain of command, not down. Neither was her lack of control what led to her failure in capturing Halsey, but Halsey giving revelation that ONI was using Palmer and her team.
I love the Spartan-IVs, even if some can be a bit big-headed. But to be fair, these soldiers fought their hardest during the war and still sometimes lived in the shadows of the Spartan-IIs and IIIs. Now, they ARE Spartans! If that honor was given to me, I imagine I'd be very proud of myself as well.
I think people don't hate them so much but do have a problem with now instead of having just a few super soldiers to save humanity. I don't hate them either but I do have problem with the fact that they rebel aganitest the UNSC. If they are super soldiers they shouldn't rebel. You don't want some of your hero's turning on you.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
I don't know about arrogance but Spartan Ops didn't do a very good job of portraying Spartan 4s in a positive light.
As with a lot of things, I think this comes down to opinion. I personally thought it did just fine.

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A lot of people don't understand why Palmer was made Spartan Commander despite her previous rank being Corporal.
It sounds like people don't have a general understanding (despite it being made quite clear in Initiation) how the Spartan branch works.

Palmer is the Spartan Commander, but her rank is Spartan. She is the acting Commander - referred to as such, but without officially holding the rank - because of her service among the first class of Spartan IV's and her continued service record while a Spartan IV. Her former rank is Corporal, when she was an ODST and a part of the UNSC Marines. Just as Buck was formerly a Gunnery Sergeant, but is now of the rank Spartan.

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Add that to her general command incompetence during the Requiem campaign
What incompetence? As for her personality, again this is opinion but if you ask me most people need to absolutely get over it. She acts like an ODST is described consistently as acting.

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Throughout Spartan Ops she constantly demeans scientist and unaugmented marines
Calling scientists "eggheads" is not demeaning. No more so than calling Marines "jarheads" or "leathernecks", or soldiers "grunts". Nerds need to get over this. Neither does she demean unaugmented Marines.

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she is very brash, leaves without telling anyone where she is going, and isn't in control of her emotions which is what led her to fail in her capture of Halsey in Escalations.
A lot of characters - particularly of ODST backgrounds - are brash. Never hear much about them. Neither is she required - as Spartan Commander - to report where she is going, especially when it involves a high-risk prisoner. Reports float up the chain of command, not down. Neither was her lack of control what led to her failure in capturing Halsey, but Halsey giving revelation that ONI was using Palmer and her team.
I understand how the Spartan branch works just fine. Her rank may not be official but it still gives her power that I believe should be in the hands of someone more capable.
Like Buck said in New Blood: some Spartans are more equal than others. My point was that prior to becoming a Spartan she had no experience with leading a division due to her rank being Corporal, while other Spartan 4s such as Buck had much higher ranks more suited to the position.

By incompetence I meant that in terms of command capability as shown when she disappears for a whole section of the campaign without telling anyone where she went or how to contact her. No self respecting commanding officer does that when it can freeze the entire chain of command.
She is no longer an ODST she is a Spartan now, she can't keep acting as she did before as she now has been given a lot more responsibility considering her position.

'Egghead' and 'Jarhead' is demeaning when one uses it nigh-constantly when referring to the person.
"Once again Spartans doing in 24 minutes what marines can't do in 24 hours (exasperated sigh)" : That does seem a little demeaning.

Only the best of the best ODSTs get to become Spartans and none among Alpha-9 would be considered brash. Majestic and Palmer are the only Spartan 4s I have noted that display this type of behaviour.
The individual in charge of all the Spartan Fireteams should be required to report her movements or at least give a reason for her disappearance. Reports may flow up but commands flow down.
Her inattention and distractedness due to debating ethics with Halsey is what led to the doctor's escape in Escalations.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
I understand how the Spartan branch works just fine.
Bully! If others are confused and outraged that she "leaped from Corporal to Commander", then they need to catch up.

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Her rank may not be official but it still gives her power that I believe should be in the hands of someone more capable.
Someone like...?

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My point was that prior to becoming a Spartan she had no experience with leading a division due to her rank being Corporal, while other Spartan 4s such as Buck had much higher ranks more suited to the position.
Corporals in the UNSCDF are Fireteam Leaders. So... yes, actually. Palmer does have leadership experience. Keep in mind she is only the Spartan Commander onboard the Infinity, and Spartan Expeditionary Strike Groupe One (ESG 1). There are others.

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By incompetence I meant that in terms of command capability as shown when she disappears for a whole section of the campaign without telling anyone where she went or how to contact her. No self respecting commanding officer does that when it can freeze the entire chain of command.
Happens more than you'd think. Her "disappearance" also was not for an extended period of time. When she leaves direct oversight of Spartan Operations (despite Spartan Miller being the direct handler) was when she was directed to arrest Dr. Halsey for communicating with an unknown party - later revealed to be Jul 'Mdama. As Spartan Commander, she has no obligation to poping in and letting her subordinates know where she's going and what she's doing. That is not how the Chain of Command works, and this is absolutely not a case of incompetence on her part.

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'Egghead' and 'Jarhead' is demeaning when one uses it nigh-constantly when referring to the person.
I've always thought this complaint was incredibly stupid - there's no other word - and shows a typical civilian misunderstanding of military culture and colloquialisms. Yes, I've heard the "I was in the military and I find it offensive"--doesn't move me. It's easy to type anything online. "Egghead" isn't demeaning even when used a whopping six times by Palmer and once by Dalton. Used indirectly towards fellow Spartans - soldier to soldier - and usually used after some egghead tinkered around with something they didn't understand and endangered the whole crew. And Jarhead... Hoo boy, if you think that's demeaning then I think you've got a lot to learn about the culutre. Jarhead isn't demeaning, "fobbit" is.

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"Once again Spartans doing in 24 minutes what marines can't do in 24 hours (exasperated sigh)" : That does seem a little demeaning.
Sounds a lot like fact.

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Only the best of the best ODSTs get to become Spartans and none among Alpha-9 would be considered brash.
Except for Dutch. And Romeo. Though, to be clear, brash is defined as self-assertive in a rude, noisy, or overbearing way. Someone who seeks their own ends, regardless of the needs and wants of others. Sarah Palmer is, in effect, a Commander. She gives orders, and if you think this is seeking her own ends then you've got a lot to reconcile in regards to prejudices aginst the character. She is no more rude or noisy than Johnson ever was, but we don't see many complaints against his mannerisms now do we? But a woman does it and *tch*, clearly she's being brash and unprofession. Hogwash...

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Majestic and Palmer are the only Spartan 4s I have noted that display this type of behaviour.
DeMarco is cocky, but he and the rest of Majestic get the job done. They take their orders, they follow those orders, and they - DeMarco - even sacrifice when the need calls for it. You do Majestic - and Palmer - a great disservice to their actions in service of the UNSC in your dislike of their peripheral behavior.

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The individual in charge of all the Spartan Fireteams should be required to report her movements or at least give a reason for her disappearance.
Again, she does not report to Miller or the various Fireteams. She reports to Captain Lasky, ADM Musa and HIGHCOM. The reason for her absence on the Spartan deck was given, and Spartan Handlers - like Miller - more than had the job (their job) covered. This criticism is unwarranted and irrational.

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Her inattention and distractedness due to debating ethics with Halsey is what led to the doctor's escape in Escalations.
I'm looking at the page right now. Halsey suddenly running off (Palmer wasn't so distracted) and being ambushed by a Harvester was what allwed Halsey to escape. Not inattentiveness or distraction on Palmer's part.
EvilKeny28 wrote:
I'm looking at the page right now. Halsey suddenly running off (Palmer wasn't so distracted) and being ambushed by a Harvester was what allwed Halsey to escape. Not inattentiveness or distraction on Palmer's part.
Bully?

Jun would have been a good choice (I never understood why they put him to the side like that when he is still quite young). Aside from him I find it hard to believe that Buck was the only one out of the first class of Spartan 4s (which were supposed to be the most accomplished of current UNSC soldiers) which was of higher rank than Palmer.

Fireteam leader does not necessarily make someone apt for being the overall leader of all this fireteams. Buck was a Gunnery Sergent by comparison.
Care to mention which are the other Spartan leaders, or where you even heard of such a thing?

Um, proof? Since when does that happen more often?
It was extended enough that the chain of command had no idea where she was and tried to contact her several times with no success.
On the contrary this is how chain of command works, especially when the next in-line are basically just handlers and people who act as intermediaries. Even Miller shows showed concern about the Spartan commander's negligence of her duties when she vanished without warning amidst the operations on Requiem. Similarly, he quickly grew worried when Palmer disabled her and Majestic's communications out of her dislike of Miller during the infiltration on Oth Lodon.

Pretty sure the military doesn't make constant use of the term 'egghead' when referring to the other party. On the contrary, its due to their constant use of that word that makes it feel like fiction. That and Palmer personal dislike of doctors and its quite clear where she stands on the issue.

Sounds like hypocrisy considering how she originally viewed Spartans before becoming one.

Dutch and Romeo are not nearly as brash/rash as Palmer, and while they may talk a lot they aren't prone to emotional outbursts like she is.
The difference is that Johnson isn't in charge of all the Spartan Fireteams, he is only a Staff Sergeant. On top of that we have seen in several novels that he is a lot more level headed than Palmer and better at dealing with subordinates. Add to that his combat record and charming/funny character and its not rocket science which here are far fewer complaints against his character. Johnson is supposed to invoke the feel of US drill sergent hence his 'colourful' language.
Oh please, don't you dare start waving the misogynist stick around.

Except for that one time when Madson stops paying attention to his surrounding on a battlefield and Hoya stupidly getting out of cover and almost gets killed. The fact that Madson only got into the Spartan program due to nepotism is a strike against him as well as the program as a whole.
I expect them to follow orders. If they couldn't do even that it would lower my view of the Spartan 4s even more. And on that note, Thorne did disobey DeMarco's orders that one time but it was a good call so I let it slide.
Giving critic to characters =/= doing a disservice to them. Also its not because someone sacrifices themselves that it absolves them of all their faults.

They may report to Lasy, but Palmer is the one who directs the Spartan Fireteams and Miller is just an intermediary between her and other Spartans. I believe its less that they got the job covered and more that they were forced to make do with what they had.
The fact that this point has been brought up many times in past and even today, even on Spacebattles where some of the people there are more knowledgeable than me, makes it far from irrational.

Palmer got distracted by the conversation enough that Halsey managed to get far enough to start running away. This should not have happened considering she was in enemy/unknown territory with a wanted criminal.
I lost all respect for her when she tried to assassinate halsey, shes a puppet, not a spartan
No. She's a soldier, not a rogue loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules and always gets her man. In all seriousness, she was given an order and attempted to carry it out. That gains her points in my book. It's her job. Takes a bad trooper to disregard orders from higher up. Without a chain of command, military doesn't work. What kind of example would Palmer set if she disobeyed orders and expected the other S-IVs to obey her? That wouldn't work out. I guarantee it.
Murdering Halsey without a trial would be a war crime. Soldiers have standing orders to disobey their superiors when those orders are immoral or illegal.
Sugusuck wrote:
Murdering Halsey without a trial would be a war crime. Soldiers have standing orders to disobey their superiors when those orders are immoral or illegal.
As much of a farce as it was in the book, Halsey was given a trial.
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  5. 31
  6. 32
  7. 33
  8. ...
  9. 34