Quote:Except for Harvest. Reach. Arcadia. Second Base and Green Hills. Biko. Bliss. Madrigal. Jericho VII. Most of the Outer Colonies. 23 billion human lives before October 20th, 2552, and billions more with the invasion of Earth. Constant naval battles in where the destruction of just one Covenant CCS Cruiser takes the toll of five UNSC ships. Both Requiem campaigns. The events of Escalation. Black Team. Events on Carrow.
If you looked at the link I provided, you'd realize why none of that persuades me.
Quote:See above. Also you're blatantly ignoring New Phoenix. You're ignoring the decades of war that these Spartans - even if they weren't Spartans at the time - went through, and the absolute everything that they lost. Then as Spartans, you're ignoring the infiltration of NCA agents and Insurrectionist sympathizers, many who often did damage to their comrades directly. Four direct assaults on the Infinity. The total loss of the Requiem campaign. Etc.
That wasn't really a loss specifically to the Spartan IVs— more-so for the whole of Earth and the UNSC. The IVs couldn't have prevented
New Phoenix's destruction, so it wasn't really their
failure or their loss.
Again, what exactly have they lost that almost every other human being already hasn't? You're just proving that the IVs are like everyone else— and hyping up their years spent in the military in a manner not dissimilar to my own aggrandizement of the 2s and 3s.
Those assaults on Infinity were
repelled and I don't think you know what a "loss" is, nor what I meant by a loss specifically
to the Spartan-IVs.
Since when was Requiem a failure? What exactly did the 4s lose, there? I didn't see any of them lamenting anything about it. Nor have we really seen any of them even beating themselves up over... failing at what, again? The entirety of Spartan Ops, and by extension, the Janus Key arc of Escalation, ended up being a complete dud, so... you're going to have to jog my memory.
Quote:They do not have manic-depressive issues. Nor were they rendered nearly extinct (not like all of humanity was.) Of 75 Spartan II's - and not counting those that killed themselves prior to the Covenant War - only 22 are KIA. That's only 29%. Of that 22, only 15 are Confirmed KIA; 20%. So no, they were not rendered "damn-near extinct".
The interrogator at the beginning of Halo 4 literally outlines the mental issues that the 2s have to deal, as well as expressing the concern that the Chief himself was "broken".
Also, you shouldn't have brought up Spartan 2s. I happen to have a comprehensive list of every Spartan and their statuses. Only 15 Spartan 2s are alive and in active duty as of the end of Halo 3. 16 died in combat against the Covenant and 15 are legitimately
missing-in-action/unaccounted-for (they actually
went completely missing and/or we haven't heard mention of them). On record, only one Spartan 2 has ever committed suicide, and that was barely before the war started. And by the way, at least two-thirds of those that are missing-in-action are presumed dead (including James, Vinh, and Isaac). So, sixteen are confirmed to have died against the Covenant, and potentially fifteen more have, also— with at least six of them all but presumed
to have met the same fate.
And of course: this all lead to the disaster that was Operation: Red Flag, to the point that John was (for a matter of months) believed to be the last of his kind, at least by troops in active-duty. So, yeah... nearly extinct, at least in theory. That counts as a loss.
Losing over half your numbers and potentially being reduced to less than twenty counts, I think.
Quote:As was their entire purpose. You can't make a sob-story from designed-as-intended Suicide Soldiers.
You say that as though it proves me wrong, but if anything, that just helps prove my point. I even said
that the 3s were designed for disposability— which only further goes to show that they have more pathos than the IVs. And I like how you completely ignored the Gammas being given psychotic issues, even though you were plenty happy to bring it up with someone else, beforehand.
Also... really? You sound as
dismissive of the 3s as I
am of the 4s! Hypocrite, much?
Yeah, the Spartan-IVs aren't
doomed to fail and given false hope like the 3s were! Bully for them, right?! If anything, they're the UNSC's new, favorite squeeze— the beneficiaries of the UEG being their proverbial sugar-daddy. With all the fancy toys and their big, untouchable mobile-home, and their place in the lime-light as the UNSC's propaganda material.
[SARCASM] Yeah... I just feel so
sorry for them. What pathos they have. Gee, I never looked at them with clear eyes until I talked it over with you and Armada. Oh, boy. I'm so overwhelmed with pity and admiration for the Spartan-IVs, who are ostensibly living out their and the dream of almost every young child by mimicking the legendary Master Chief— the IVs, who managed to survive the Covenant War (just like an uncountable number of civilians and other
military personnel) where their many comrades did not. Oh, wow... the sorrow. It is oh so terribly convincing. I shall henceforth disregard everything about the 2s and 3s and ORION soldiers in place of fawning over the IVs... because reasons... [SARCASM]
You know, I want
to like the 4s, as a concept. It's not like I enjoy
waiting around to see if they fail. I'd love to be able to just... turn my brain off and clap my hands just because I see a person with a suit of MJOLNIR on-screen. I wish
it were that simple. If I knew how to adequately explain it without having to point to this ( https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/are-the-covenant-even-scary---rant/95417a4f-f680-4087-8889-69b644687c98/posts
), I would. But, evidently, that's just not going to happen. I still
don't understand the motivations of anyone I've gotten into a tizzy with, here. And I don't think I'll ever
understand why my opinion about the 4s is, apparently, so unacceptable.
And by the way: I like
Vale, Thorne, and Tanaka as people. I don't hate every Spartan-IV simply because they're a Spartan-IV. It just so happens to be the case that I like Vale, Thorne, and Tanaka in spite
of them being 4s. And even then... it wasn't that great a hurdle to overcome, anyway.