Forums / Community / Halo Universe

Why do people hate Spartan IV's?

OP Imperator Rage

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I have read and re-read my posts on this Thread and the responses I've gotten, and every time that I've gone over it, I am more and more convinced that not a single response to any of what I've said has actually tackled any of my main points. All of my detractors have simply picked at small mistakes I've made, rather than actually engaging my real points.
As such: I'll count this as a win by technicality on my part.
Steeped pretty deeply in your bias there, aren't you? No, we've pointedly refuted your main gripes regarding the Spartan-IVs.

  • You claimed they didn't earn the title because they most likely didn't have any loss, any hardship occur in their lives; cushy, easy-going and simply survived due to luck. When that was refuted, your response was "well, you see, that wasn't special", as though going through trauma needs a unique tier list. They earned their title by enlisting, fighting, and surviving the most brutal war in human history. I'm sure you'll continue to ignore this fact simply on the premise 'but weren't child soldiers'.
  • You also asserted that they probably didn't see much action in the war; most likely just sitting on some far-flung ship somewhere, not in the foxholes and trenches. When that was refuted it became "well, you see, maybe I made a tiny mistake" when it's a considerable difference.
  • You then asserted that they "collectively act like frat-boys", and could barely muster a solid enough argument that you felt Grant was simultaneously one while also completely without character.
Then, when all else failed, you flat out told me you didn't give a toss about them and wouldn't be convinced otherwise, wishing for some ridiculous downfall upon them.
You can make lip-service with statements like
Quote:
I want to like the 4s
But in actuality you do not. You came into this thread with a set conclusion on what they were and what they represented. You didn't have a modicum of open-mindedness to see what the Spartan-IVs might actually be. Every response was immediately shot down or new criteria made to discredit them. That is not someone who wants to have an open discussion. You seem to have taken affront to any replies as apparently it was some grand conspiracy as to why I 'went out of my way to make an argument' or 'trying to make you feel defeated' or giving you 'snide remarks and insults'. These are things you've conjured in your own mind and detract from the discussion.
You even felt the need to come back to the topic a week later simply to say "I won". When you disregard what everyone else has to say, I'm sure you would consider that a "win".
tL Armada wrote:
Well, alright, then mister skeptic. What would you say are my "real reasons" for disliking the 4s, then? If you know so much about me, then what exactly is your theory as to why I dislike the 4s, since I apparently don't have a leg to stand on.
Even after having been proven wrong throughout this thread, I still can't get through Spartan Ops or Halo 5 without feeling like something's missing. Like something's wrong. I can read Hunters in the Dark or play Spartan Assault without issue, so why do Spartan Ops and 5 leave me cold? Why IS IT that I dislike the Spartan 4s?! I still dislike them, even after being proven wrong in this thread trice over, so what's the deal?! I don't understand my own motivations, evidently, so do you?! Do you know why I dislike the 4s?!

I'll admit, I'm terrible at debates. The last time I tried to debate anyone, the situation ended up in tears. Evidently, I'm just not very good at verbal fencing, and admittedly, I'm not the most intellectually honest person. Even this is a last-ditch attempt to salvage my credibility, on my part.

So how about this. I will lay down all of my cards, I will present everything that I've experienced, and together, we can all try to understand why I think the way I do. Because apparently no amount of being proven wrong works. And, no, I have not "conjured" anything— THAT'S the only thing about all of this that I will not concede on. You both HAVE been hostile towards me in a manner that is unwarranted— not the least of which being Heathen's repeated assumptions about me being a "Bungie fanboy", NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I ATTEST TO THE CONTRARY.

So, then, lads. Let's all just... huddle up and try to sort this out, because at this point, I don't even understand my own feelings on the matter. So, for the last time, I will offer carte-blanche and direct all of us to this Thread: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/are-the-covenant-even-scary---rant/95417a4f-f680-4087-8889-69b644687c98/postsI have grown endlessly tired of this charade, and I'm beginning not to care anymore. So let's all just jump down this rabbit-hole, together, shall we? Let's try to dissect where exactly my malfunction lies.
Don't forget how much actually does answer what you've been demanding, and how much you brazenly ignore because it's somehow "not good enough".
I still can't get through Spartan Ops or Halo 5 without feeling like something's missing. Like something's wrong. I can read Hunters in the Dark or play Spartan Assault without issue, so why do Spartan Ops and 5 leave me cold? Why IS IT that I dislike the Spartan 4s?!
Sounds like your issue is with 343i, despite your caps-lock claims to the contrary. A stance which makes no sense, especially when you're playing a game in which the Spartans have no dialogue and you apparently seem to just loathe it.

And to be clear, we're hostile towards your stance, not you. Though I will point out that - thus far - you're the only one to stoop to personal insults.
I still can't get through Spartan Ops or Halo 5 without feeling like something's missing. Like something's wrong. I can read Hunters in the Dark or play Spartan Assault without issue, so why do Spartan Ops and 5 leave me cold? Why IS IT that I dislike the Spartan 4s?!
Sounds like your issue is with 343i, despite your caps-lock claims to the contrary.
Yet that isn't true, so please try again.
Don't forget how much actually does answer what you've been demanding, and how much you brazenly ignore because it's somehow "not good enough".
I am literally putting everything on the table and asking for perspective. I cannot get any more open, here. Put down the axe and let's all try to come to sort of consensus, here. Because it's quite evident that I was never going to win any kind of debate.
I'm not the one here with an axe, Archodus. You're the one who's clearly shown - in black and white - a zealous hatred for not only the Spartan IV's (for no apparent reason and yet somehow several), but the UNSC and Humanity as a whole (because how dare they succeed so much! Grrr!). You're the one who takes this axe and hacks through reason after reason - though none needed to have been given to you - as to why yes, the Spartan IV's are actually Spartans, not really refuting any of these reasons but ignoring them all the same.

This was no debate. It never was. A debate requires consideration and acknowledgement of facts and points on both sides. We've taken enough consideration and acknowledgement of your points to show why they are not so - as is done in a debate. You're the only one here flat-out and brazenly ignoring those counterpoints because you don't like them. Then notching your own belt with a victory not won by any stretch of the imagination.
Spartan IV's are less physically augmented and are comprised of adult volunteers. Simply stated, the lore behind the Spartan IV's just isn't as cool as the other Spartan classes. As for their personalities, Fred is awesome and everyone else we see in game is a emotionless brick with no drive other than *MUST SOLDIER*. On top of it all, the writing and development behind the Spartan IV's in Halo 5 just wasn't nearly as good as it was for previous generations of Spartans in game and therefore they aren't as cool or interesting as the former generations.

p.s. the spartan II's in Halo 5 also sucked but we have seen Spartan I's, II's, and III's be amazing in previous games. No hate towards IV's, they just aren't as good.
I don't like 343s sparten 4s because Spartans in halo went from being awesome super soldiers that were rare but legendary now it is like everyone who ever did anything in halo is now a spartan and it just devalues them.
P.S. I am joking about the everyone thing it just feels like it sometimes.
tL Armada wrote:
"Non-frat-boy" list
Thorne
Grant
Hoya
Palmer
Dalton
Miller
Locke
Vale
Buck
Tanaka
Davis
Ray
Kodiak
Holt
you forgot Fireteam Crimson

also, Davis is the epitome of what spartan 4s should be. His sacrifice kind of reminds me of noble 6, in that he was the last person left on the planet and sacrificed himself to make sure others escaped.
you forgot Fireteam Crimson
I thought it best to omit them since they're self-insert characters with no set personality. I would say a good replacement for them to add to the list would be Shadow team. They only had limited 'screen time' in Spartan Ops, but they conducted themselves in a professional manner.
also, Davis is the epitome of what spartan 4s should be. His sacrifice kind of reminds me of noble 6, in that he was the last person left on the planet and sacrificed himself to make sure others escaped.
Quite agree. And even DeMarco did something very similar in Escalations.
I don't dislike. There good for the halo universe there armor is nice and people don't have to get augmentations as extreme as spartan II. Plus Spartan IV just make Spartan II look even cooler cause of the skill gap.
They’re all arrogant, plus they are restricted.
I think most ppl dont like them the same way ppl dont like Iphones made in Thailand, they are afraid they are just a cheap rippoff of the real thing.
There are good and bad examples on the IV 's...(Buck is my favorite, btw...)

And if you remember it correctly, even bad -Yoink-/order-follower Palmer blinked twice when Del Rio ordered her to arrest the Chief.
I swear to God I could even ear her saying "Are you nuts...?...Sir?"
I blame H5 (I don't think I have to explain why) and Palmer in spartan ops. She just gave the impression that she knew nothing about the original spartans and was just arrogant and overconfident. Funny when considering that the other spartans talk about master chief as a sort of legend, in the campaign they salute him and stare in the ending as if they were in the presence of a god. As something they could only aspire to come close to and be inspired by. This is even wierder because in the campaign, Palmer herself mantains a calm and focused profile in contrast. The "I thought you'd be taller" line wasn't meant to be disrispectful, but rather friendly towards chief, and showing that she as well had a very elevated conception of him. She didn't even move a muscle when del rio told her to arrest chief.
I really like Spartan IV's. They are the most "human" of the Spartans. They act like real people, not nearly emotionless super soldiers. Some of my favorite Spartans are IV's. Buck is awesome but to be fair I started to like him when he was introduced in HALO 3: ODST not when I saw him again in HALO 5. The Spartans of fireteams Majestic are pretty good too. Plus, some of the Spartan IV's have the best armor. I may not like Locke as a character but his armor is pretty cool. So is Buck's helljumper-class armor. Vale's armor is rather nice too. I really don't understand why people dislike Spartan IV's as a whole. I understand not liking the characters but not the entire group of people.
I dont consider them Spartans to be honest. They're a cheap knock off brand imo. Although, I suppose the fact they exist makes things more realistic in a sense because that is exactly what would happen on our own reality; taking an existing effective product and trying to replicate it in a much cheaper way.

In the hierarchy of UNSC soldiers, I place them between ODSTs and SPARTAN 3s. All being behind SPARTAN 2s of course.
they dont have that cool "shadowy secrecy supper background Story" as the IIs or IIIs. They are regular humans wich id it to their own will..... the augmentations have basicly no sideeffects .... ann well they are just not on the same level.
I know everyone gets angry when you say it, but the Spartan IV's are ugly. They wear armor that doesn't belong in a Halo game, so if you'e been playing since 1 they already feel weird and out of place right off the bat.
I think the thing that really makes them boring though is they remove the mystique from Spartans. They're just regular marines with super powers. Spartans should stand out from the crowd, but now they are the crowd. Superman isn't cool if everyone around him is also Superman.
Arparagus wrote:
I think the thing that really makes them boring though is they remove the mystique from Spartans. They're just regular marines with super powers. Spartans should stand out from the crowd, but now they are the crowd. Superman isn't cool if everyone around him is also Superman.
I think they're more than just that. These individuals have proven to be skilled, resourceful and tenacious enough to earn their recruitment into the program. ONI isn't randomly picking wet-behind-the-ears greenies to become Spartans; they have to prove that they can shoulder the burden of being Humanity's most elite force and protection against any adversary.
I'd also say they very much still stand head and shoulders above everyone else, literally and figuratively. The backgrounds these characters come from wasn't kind to them, and it's the main driving force behind their inception. While they don't have the 'abducted at 6' dark history of previous Spartans, they still had their own issues they had to deal with.
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