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Why the heck are Thel's covenant wearing H4 armor?

OP JJAB91

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As stated above, reviving a "once proud community" is no longer possible, and will definitely not happen after complaining in a public forum about it 3 months before Halo 5's release. Making polished, working blockbuster games within a deadline is not easy, and after the mistakes made with Halo 4 and MCC, I'm sure the teams at 343i have more important things to attend to, such as making Halo 5 the best possible experience they can without sacrificing precious time catering to the deluded wishes of a community of 200 people on 2015 Halo: Reach.
Go look at the Halo 5 section. This issue is shared with many more than just the remaining clans. In fact, this is one of the MOST requested features for Halo 5.
KBTS Venom wrote:
KBTS Venom wrote:
Are you kidding me? How can the community be "greater than it was before"? If you haven't noticed, all of the oldest and eldest fleets have disbanded – their leaders have moved on with their lives and have no further interest for Xbox. It cannot be "greater" when those who made it great are no longer a part of the community and when people continually desecrate what we worked so hard to achieve. Secondly, you continue to play a part in its dissolution by being childish on here (in reference to you earlier posts). You don't see the bigger picture.
And new commanders can't arise out of the ashes? In terms of the lore, we have an icredible opportunity to revive the community. But I do understand that it won't be the same people as before, it will be a new generation to inherit the mantle. And again, I think you misread those posts, they were not meant to be a form of bashing, but rather a way of communicating the Sangheili community's point of view. (at the least the portion of the community I've seen on Waypoint)
In response to this, I reiterate my previous statement.

"unfortunately the younger millennial generation that is still interested in clans of today lack the experience and leadership ability to keep things going and maintain a healthy community."
KBTS Venom wrote:
KBTS Venom wrote:
In response to this, I reiterate my previous statement.

"unfortunately the younger millennial generation that is still interested in clans of today lack the experience and leadership ability to keep things going and maintain a healthy community."
And so were we when we started in clans. But we managed fairly well for almost a decade, and we didn't have the privilage of grizzled veterans teaching us how to lead, but we made do and made a beautiful thing. Now I want the opportunity to start a clan of my own and pass down my torch to the newbies. Especially since 343 have been giving the Sangheili alot more attention in terms of lore, it would be much easier to get people invested.
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
What is this diffrence... How does it change the game? Excuse my naivity.
You have to see this from the perspective of clans.

Spartan clans are usually either UNSC, ONi, sniper, USA or other military clans with some occasional Griffball, assassinations and other clans.

Sangheili clans are primarily fleets, with a ranking structure based on the lore, with armours usually based on the lore, with people clinging to the lore. They also happen to usually be meritocracies and not democracies. Sangheili clans thrived for 8 years until 1 day Sangheili were removed from MP because a small portion (compared to the anti-sprint crowd) of MLG pros and people could not aim 1 cm higher (when the Elites were taller) based on what fans believe since there as never been an official statement in the past 3 years as to why. A Sangheili clan could face another Sangheili clan simply because:
they supported humans
they had different views on worshiping the Forerunners and their tech
they had an incompetent leader.

Sangheili clans usually formed alliances known as Covenants, forged covie themed maps, attacked UNSC clans, made ships on Forge, had cannon determine clan policy. A Spartan non lore based clan, which is part of the vast majority of Spartan clans, was a generic video game clan where people usually have to change their name or 1v1 their leader. Most Sangheili clans functioned completely differently. Most of the members where anti-UNSC or disliked humanity in Halo or at least preferred the Sangheili to the humans. A Sangheili clan would send an Ossoona to infiltrate an enemy clan, steal their forged maps, or 1v1 clan leaders in banshee fights as the High command of 1 or both clans watched. A Sangheili clan usually had a website/forum and a way for members to interact and create stuff together. Some clans even had websites for their alliances. There were coups assisted or not by other clans, clan meeting on Sangheili themed forged buildings or cities. There was also a ton of lore discussion as these clans combined both lore and campaign. In a Sangheili clan you had your character and your story. A spartan sniper clan set on noscoping does not have this. A Spartan lore clan doesn't also have the part of the lore that Sangheili players like. I dislike the UNSC and ONI with a fervent passion and no matter how many times I had been asked to join a Spartan clan since halo 3 I refused just because they were humans. If I wanna play as a generic supersoldier I can do that in any videogame. Halo was different. I was the alien. I was the Tier 2 alien reking UNSC newbies with plasma fire and helping the covenant cause or that of a splinter faction. I was the bad guy but I had a reason and that reason was based on what I liked in halo's lore. If I wanna be an anticapitalist Innie/or a Marine I can be in every game. Halo gave me more. I was the alien. I don't like playing as a human in video games. In Mass Effect I love the aliens, regardless of race. Just something that is not human or human with a prosthetic head. That's it. You can also see this the other way around. Imagine a halo game with only Sangheili and no spartans. There would a total havok and armageddon of complaints. It's just that Spartan players always get their playable model because it is human and that's what most people want to play as
See now this is an explanation that I can understand. Is pretty much bringing role-playing into Halo's multiplayer via clans. I can get into that! And I feel for that side of the community.

What I can't understand is OP. Redesigns have always happened, for one reason or another. If you're that into the lore to which varying textures and small design changes from game-to-game cause the lore to become inconsistent for you, is more of a personal issue than a community-wide grievance.
(Yes I know, OP is written as a personal view but my point stands)
Uhhh... Either I dont fully unstand you both or my question is a joke to you guys. I understand not being a human in multiplay. I see my spartan as one of the III's.
but you seem to be talking about haha fan fiction.
I was talking about the redesign interm of the Halo Lore not Fan fiction. As it seems the community is alot more bitter when, 343i shows them the old design looking new but revert to new designs the "Hardcore fans" don't like. But then i see games like DMC andd know it could be worse
KBTS Venom wrote:
KBTS Venom wrote:
In response to this, I reiterate my previous statement.

"unfortunately the younger millennial generation that is still interested in clans of today lack the experience and leadership ability to keep things going and maintain a healthy community."
And so were we when we started in clans. But we managed fairly well for almost a decade, and we didn't have the privilage of grizzled veterans teaching us how to lead, but we made do and made a beautiful thing. Now I want the opportunity to start a clan of my own and pass down my torch to the newbies. Especially since 343 have been giving the Sangheili alot more attention in terms of lore, it would be much easier to get people invested.
With all due respect, who are you? You use the word "us" as though you were a part of the Sangheili veterenship, but I don't seem to recognize the name Vex Narsamee. Why should I believe that any torch you pass down isn't as random as most of the 2015 Reach elites that claim to have been around for a long time that I meet all the time?

Aside from that, the Sangheili veteranship didn't need anyone to teach them because, although leaders must be forged, they are also born. Some people can do it, and some people just can't. The reason that they could is because they come from an older and more mature generation that wasn't violated by social media and technology from an early age. Basically all Sangheili community kids that are still interested in clans come from a millennial generation that is mostly comprised of adolescents and teenagers that lack intelligence, social engineering skills, and the attitude of leadership that made the community previously so interesting. I would be surprised if any of these people made and maintained a group that was worth any recognition and is equatable to the past.
I love how these threads tend to derail themselves.
KBTS Venom wrote:
KBTS Venom wrote:
With all due respect, who are you? You use the word "us" as though you were a part of the Sangheili veterenship, but I don't seem to recognize the name Vex Narsamee. Why should I believe that any torch you pass down isn't as random as most of the 2015 Reach elites that claim to have been around for a long time that I meet all the time?

Aside from that, the Sangheili veteranship didn't need anyone to teach them because, although leaders must be forged, they are also born. Some people can do it, and some people just can't. The reason that they could is because they come from an older and more mature generation that wasn't violated by social media and technology from an early age. Basically all Sangheili community kids that are still interested in clans come from a millennial generation that is mostly comprised of adolescents and teenagers that lack intelligence, social engineering skills, and the attitude of leadership that made the community previously so interesting. I would be surprised if any of these people made and maintained a group that was worth any recognition and is equatable to the past.
I don't blame you for not hearing my name. I was only apart of smaller, tight knit groups for several years, and you wouldn't recognize or find any of the names I could give you. Only recently have I been involved with this portion of the Sangheili. But nonetheless, I am still a veteran.

I concur that most of the millennials aren't particularly... acquainted with the fields comradarie and leadership as they're predacessors, but there are those gems, and stripping them of a potential experience to learn a thing or two isn't exactly a wise decision.
KBTS Venom wrote:
KBTS Venom wrote:
With all due respect, who are you? You use the word "us" as though you were a part of the Sangheili veterenship, but I don't seem to recognize the name Vex Narsamee. Why should I believe that any torch you pass down isn't as random as most of the 2015 Reach elites that claim to have been around for a long time that I meet all the time?

Aside from that, the Sangheili veteranship didn't need anyone to teach them because, although leaders must be forged, they are also born. Some people can do it, and some people just can't. The reason that they could is because they come from an older and more mature generation that wasn't violated by social media and technology from an early age. Basically all Sangheili community kids that are still interested in clans come from a millennial generation that is mostly comprised of adolescents and teenagers that lack intelligence, social engineering skills, and the attitude of leadership that made the community previously so interesting. I would be surprised if any of these people made and maintained a group that was worth any recognition and is equatable to the past.
I don't blame you for not hearing my name. I was only apart of smaller, tight knit groups for several years, and you wouldn't recognize or find any of the names I could give you. Only recently have I been involved with this portion of the Sangheili. But nonetheless, I am still a veteran.

I concur that most of the millennials aren't particularly... acquainted with the fields comradarie and leadership as they're predacessors, but there are those gems, and stripping them of a potential experience to learn a thing or two isn't exactly a wise decision.
I know of and/or am acquainted with everyone in the Sangheili community that notably accomplished anything and is deserving of respect. As far as anyone is concerned, if you are not one of those people or were associated with any of those people, you likely don't possess the knowledge or experience required to qualify speaking on behalf of the Sangheili or even speaking about the community's accomplishments. Furthermore, the right to refer to other Sangheili as "newbies" is earned, not adopted because you claim to be a veteran of unknown people and groups.

Anyway, the existence of playable Sangheili in Halo 5 has not been confirmed nor denied, so posting on threads complaining about the matter in itself is counter-productive as an uneducated assumption. Either way, with the mistakes that were present with Halo 4 and The Master Chief Collection, playable Sangheili is the least of my concerns because the feature doesn't matter if the game that hosts it can't support the Halo community.
I have met alot of people who knows "everyone who has done something important" in the Sangheili community and yet those people tend not to know about each other.

BACK ON TOPIC: I honestly am okay with H5s design choices and I am eager to get the game.

BACK OFF TOPIC: No one knows everyone in the Sangheili community so please don't try to boost your ego. I have been a member of the Elite community since Halo 2 but I haven't done anything "important" but I know for a fact most fleets and clans don't communicate with each other (Or didn't I should say) and so there would be know way for someone to know everyone who is anyone.
Since nobody else is willing to say this, I guess I will. Could you guys harping on about the Sanghelli community please bugger off and take this discussion somewhere else. You've already derailed this thread enough. Sorry if this came off as a bit rude or antagonistic.
BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE!

Just a response to the question "Why the heck are Thel's covenant wearing H4 armor?" because H4 did not take place a decade before H5, and so it would stand to reason they would be using the same armour as before.
It really bugs me and really doesn't make any sense to me why Sanghelios Elites are wearing Hesduros armor...
Caluben wrote:
It really bugs me and really doesn't make any sense to me why Sanghelios Elites are wearing Hesduros armor...
Still gonna say Jul Defector... as to why Thel's facial profile is different I don't know.
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 Manual: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Grift/media/1155442758_33ad473cf7_o.png.html
Cham Koopa wrote:
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 manual
They are canon. Much like a ton of other armours including the combat harness, commando, infiltrator, assault, invader, outrider, ranger, flight, or ascetic harness.
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Cham Koopa wrote:
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 manual
They are canon. Much like a ton of other armours including the combat harness, commando, infiltrator, assault, invader, outrider, ranger, flight, or ascetic harness.
Yes, but is it Canon that Thel's elites now look like that and use that armor? So in following Comics, will we see them like in H5?
This thread makes me slightly embarrassed to be a Sangheili fan, I have to admit.

KBTS Venom wrote:
Kalawaki wrote:
It's because 343i are too lazy to reuse H2A's models. So every elite needs to look ugly and naked.

But hey, Thel's elites have an undersuit, and are colored red instead of blue! That works, right?
Assumptions like these make me sad.
We wouldn't be making assumptions if OUR PORTION (Sangheili) of the community was addressed rather than being given the cold shoulder for 5 years and going, which is not an assumption.
Please stop disgracing the Sangheili community with your incompetent and childish behaviour. You only discredit yourself by pleading with 343i to include Sangheili in future games. If they choose not to, yes, it's deeply saddening. However, your perpetual whining solves nothing and merely adds to why they should not reintroduce them; there are too many false imbeciles who claim to know anything about the community that some of us were brought up in. Furthermore, the legacy of our community should be left in the past so scummy half-breeds cannot tarnish in any further. Fear not, you can stay on Reach with the rest of your degenerate tribe of down-syndromes.

Yours,

Veer 'Zamamai (Ex-Field Master of the BTF, Wraith Grandmaster)
Degenerate tribe of down-syndromes? Scummy half breeds? What the hell? Berating that user for childish behavior whilst saying such a disgusting and inhumane thing like that this is nothing short of hypocrisy. You're a piece of work.

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Whilst the ego's are whipped out... I see that there's a lot of rose tinted navel gazing going on here, as if Sangheili multiplayer clans haven't always by and large been naff, anything special or substantially different from what they are now. As an avid fan of Covenant fiction I found no appeal in them at all, as it seemed that few knew anything short of the typical character cliches or anything about the actual story or the Sangheili/Covenant themselves. There was no aspirations about where the fiction should go, and discussions were dry and banal. Then there was that curious and slightly disturbing misanthropy about one's own species that always just turned me off them.

As evidenced by that idiot's disgraceful comment above, and the user making the sweeping and insulting generalizations about millennials (Where citation is needed), and the general repulsive elitist ego of these people as evidenced by their totally unwarranted and unsubstantiated personal attacks of Vex's character in this thread, they were also one of the last places I'd invest myself in to converse with mature people, to say nothing of conversing with anyone with any interesting insight into the lore. Sangheili clans have and always will be groups of multiplayer fans using a character model and by and large clumsily slapping Sangheili/Covenant aesthetics and appropriated lore content all over their groups, and thinking it's something profound whilst some of them even treat their fellow fans with disdain and disrespect over their choice of Sangheili or Spartan. You lot need to come off your high horse. Careful, it's a long way down.

Under no circumstances should 343i ever deny use of the Sangheili model to fans in multiplayer just because of a few bourgeois morons think that no one is equal to them and deserve to use the model; heads stuck so far up their own -Yoinks!- that their own crap has become their nectar and think they have carte blanche to say who and who doesn't have the right to use it. The ARROGANCE. As you can clearly see from that kind of attitude, and the behavior of these individuals towards users in this thread, this particular community has never been "great" in character.

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We wouldn't be making assumptions if OUR PORTION (Sangheili) of the community was addressed rather than being given the cold shoulder for 5 years and going, which is not an assumption.
A mainline game on Sanghelios, having Thel and SoS as allies, Halo: Hunters in the Dark, and Halo: Shadow of Intent (Aka Rtas...) later this year... Really, that isn't true at all. Kilo-5 was a massive stumbling event, but I think it's gone now. Some truly interesting stuff is happening with the Sangheili now, and this may be the best time there ever has been for them.
Cham Koopa wrote:
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Cham Koopa wrote:
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 manual
They are canon. Much like a ton of other armours including the combat harness, commando, infiltrator, assault, invader, outrider, ranger, flight, or ascetic harness.
Yes, but is it Canon that Thel's elites now look like that and use that armor? So in following Comics, will we see them like in H5?
It is canon that they can look like that. Because of all sorts of limitations, you are almost never seeing the whole picture of the "full" diversity of the universe when you are playing a game, watching cinematics, animation, etc. It's merely a slice of what is possible, amidst varying interpretations. If you were to imagine Thel's (not Theo's ;-) ) forces in "real life", you would undoubtedly see Sangheili of varying looks, shapes, and sizes, wearing different types of armors. Just because you only see a narrow selection within a single medium, doesn't mean that the other options are necessarily replaced or overwritten.

This has to be the 343rd time I've tried to explain this lol, but I soldier on for the greater good...

<3
Grim
Cham Koopa wrote:
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Cham Koopa wrote:
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 manual
They are canon. Much like a ton of other armours including the combat harness, commando, infiltrator, assault, invader, outrider, ranger, flight, or ascetic harness.
Yes, but is it Canon that Thel's elites now look like that and use that armor? So in following Comics, will we see them like in H5?
It is canon that they can look like that. Because of all sorts of limitations, you are almost never seeing the whole picture of the "full" diversity of the universe when you are playing a game, watching cinematics, animation, etc. It's merely a slice of what is possible, amidst varying interpretations. If you were to imagine Thel's (not Theo's ;-) ) forces in "real life", you would undoubtedly see Sangheili of varying looks, shapes, and sizes, wearing different types of armors. Just because you only see a narrow selection within a single medium, doesn't mean that the other options are necessarily replaced or overwritten.

This has to be the 343rd time I've tried to explain this lol, but I soldier on for the greater good...

<3
Grim
You're doing god's work, Grim.
Cham Koopa wrote:
TGLT BL4cK wrote:
Cham Koopa wrote:
I know 343 has listened to lots of their fan's suggestions and I actually believe that H5 might as well turn out to be the best Halo game ever, but I've also been a fan of the arbiter and his elites. I was so hyped about hearing that he would return, but now with the e3 showing how arbiter's elites look, I'm really worried.

If this is just due to cost or time Limits, maybe 343 could set it as a low priority and if they do not finish the model in time, they might add it as an update?
And even if they won't Change it, I'd still want to know if These armors are now canon? I'd always imagined Thel's elites would look like the ones in the H3 manual
They are canon. Much like a ton of other armours including the combat harness, commando, infiltrator, assault, invader, outrider, ranger, flight, or ascetic harness.
Yes, but is it Canon that Thel's elites now look like that and use that armor? So in following Comics, will we see them like in H5?
It is canon that they can look like that. Because of all sorts of limitations, you are almost never seeing the whole picture of the "full" diversity of the universe when you are playing a game, watching cinematics, animation, etc. It's merely a slice of what is possible, amidst varying interpretations. If you were to imagine Thel's (not Theo's ;-) ) forces in "real life", you would undoubtedly see Sangheili of varying looks, shapes, and sizes, wearing different types of armors. Just because you only see a narrow selection within a single medium, doesn't mean that the other options are necessarily replaced or overwritten.

This has to be the 343rd time I've tried to explain this lol, but I soldier on for the greater good...

<3
Grim
Oh, lol. The funny Thing is, I always Argument this way when it Comes to Jul's faction and why all of them look the same, even though some of them should look more like the Reach or CE elites, but I didn't realize it is the same for the arbiter's faction. Anyways, thanks for your reply.

But I still don't understand how the arbiter's Change is going to be explained. I guess it's just to fit in this game and not make him look entirely different ...

And just for confirmation, the arbiter's elites won't be changed anymore, but it's not because 343 don't want them to be changed, but rather because 343 doesn't have enough time and it's a minor priority; if they Play a bigger part in future titles, 343 might still Change them back to their H2A/H3(A) look?
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