Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

Aim Assist - Will it Carry Over on PC? ETC.

OP Leocadius

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The title mostly says it. Mostly concerning Halo Reach.

With MCC PC on the horizon, will aim assist be on PC at all? For all inputs? Or just for the Controller PC players?

Is it fair if Controller players have aim assist while M&KB don't? Specifically for tournament play.

Assuming that Aim Assist is not removed altogether on PC and Xbox, how will tournament play be balanced while some players have aim assist and others don't? Or should mouse players get aim assist as well?

And what about crossplay, same questions, multiple platforms.

So many thoughts and questions on this. Please share.
I don't know the exact answer, but I'd highly doubt that they will use aim assist for controller users as its an unfair advantage, if you want to use a controller for halo mcc, the best place to do it would be console, they might put it in campaign, but if you look at other console to pc ports, for instance, cod black ops, world at war etc, they dont carry aim assist over to pc, even with a controller, ive never played a pc game with aim assist specifically for controllers or at all. I wouldn't count on it
h4mster369 wrote:
I don't know the exact answer, but I'd highly doubt that they will use aim assist for controller users as its an unfair advantage, if you want to use a controller for halo mcc, the best place to do it would be console, they might put it in campaign, but if you look at other console to pc ports, for instance, cod black ops, world at war etc, they dont carry aim assist over to pc, even with a controller, ive never played a pc game with aim assist specifically for controllers or at all. I wouldn't count on it
There seems to be a decent group of people who think Aim Assist will carryover on PC altogether, and they don't think it provides an unfair advantage for things like Snipers and Perfect Kills (Headshots). Even some pro-level players.

I guess most people think the advantages of M&KB outweigh aim assist on Controller.

My other thought if Aim Assist is removed on PC, but kept on Console, is to have a separate Console and PC league for competitive/tournament play.
I hope not it would be real easy for people to spoof using a controller, when in actuality they're using a mouse. Then they'd get the god tier precision of the mouse and keyboard with the aim assist and bullet magnetism of the controller *shudders*. If they do add aim assist for controller it would be wise to separate mouse and controller in the matchmaking to make sure people play with other using same peripherals.
osbriver97 wrote:
I hope not it would be real easy for people to spoof using a controller, when in actuality they're using a mouse. Then they'd get the god tier precision of the mouse and keyboard with the aim assist and bullet magnetism of the controller *shudders*. If they do add aim assist for controller it would be wise to separate mouse and controller in the matchmaking to make sure people play with other using same peripherals.
There isn't much that can be done to prevent spoofing IMO. However, at an actual in-person Tournament Event, you can require only one type of input.
Here's a relevant quote from one of the development updates:
Quote:
We also need to be mindful of the fact that we will have players who prefer a mouse and keyboard for Halo and other players who will prefer controllers. We want both of these player types to be able to play together in the same match and for them to feel as if they are on relatively equal footing. There will naturally be some differences in feel and expectations for different input methods, such as the strength of aim magnetism. Whenever we have tested a Halo PC title with any audience using a mouse and keyboard, the expectation is that aim magnetism is disabled. On controller, the opposite is true, and some degree of aim magnetism is needed for controller players to compete effectively and for Halo to play the way it does on console. We want to minimize differences in gameplay between input methods, which supports our engagement pillar.
For standard gameplay, it really doesn't matter. People will choose the input method they are the most comfortable with, and the reality is that since the two aiming methods are so different, they're such orthogonal skills that it's difficult to make any reasonable arguments of "inherent advantage" one way or the other. They're just different, which might be an issue by itself for some, but not the one most people are afraid of.

I suspect that despite concerns from both sides, most players will quickly forget that they are playing against people who might be playing with a different input. Because the truth is, in most situations, there's just no way to tell from the other side of the screen. A small section of the community will have fierce debates over which input methods has the advantage, but no conclusion will be reached because they areall looking at it the wrong way.

For tournament play, it really depends on the tournament organizers and their target audience. Frankly, I can see it going any way: both input methods mixed, favoring the more popular input method over the other, or having split leagues for different input methods (though this last option is only if neither input method turns out to be vastly more popular).
tsassi wrote:
Here's a relevant quote from one of the development updates:
Quote:
We also need to be mindful of the fact that we will have players who prefer a mouse and keyboard for Halo and other players who will prefer controllers. We want both of these player types to be able to play together in the same match and for them to feel as if they are on relatively equal footing. There will naturally be some differences in feel and expectations for different input methods, such as the strength of aim magnetism. Whenever we have tested a Halo PC title with any audience using a mouse and keyboard, the expectation is that aim magnetism is disabled. On controller, the opposite is true, and some degree of aim magnetism is needed for controller players to compete effectively and for Halo to play the way it does on console. We want to minimize differences in gameplay between input methods, which supports our engagement pillar.
For standard gameplay, it really doesn't matter. People will choose the input method they are the most comfortable with, and the reality is that since the two aiming methods are so different, they're such orthogonal skills that it's difficult to make any reasonable arguments of "inherent advantage" one way or the other. They're just different, which might be an issue by itself for some, but not the one most people are afraid of.

I suspect that despite concerns from both sides, most players will quickly forget that they are playing against people who might be playing with a different input. Because the truth is, in most situations, there's just no way to tell from the other side of the screen. A small section of the community will have fierce debates over which input methods has the advantage, but no conclusion will be reached because they areall looking at it the wrong way.

For tournament play, it really depends on the tournament organizers and their target audience. Frankly, I can see it going any way: both input methods mixed, favoring the more popular input method over the other, or having split leagues for different input methods (though this last option is only if neither input method turns out to be vastly more popular).
Thanks for the response. I didn't know that 343 had addressed the issue. So it sounds like Aim Assist will carry over in this case.

But yeah, I agree. Most people won't care. However, the small/competitive community will have debates about it. Considering Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism, some controller players may hit shots that otherwise would not be hit on M&KB. If this happens in tournament play, this will cause a ruckus. People will be downplaying the skills of players/teams who use controllers if there is mixed play in tournaments.
Leocadius wrote:
Considering Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism, some controller players may hit shots that otherwise would not be hit on M&KB. If this happens in tournament play, this will cause a ruckus. People will be downplaying the skills of players/teams who use controllers if there is mixed play in tournaments.
"He would not have hit it if he had used another input method" is a very absurd denial of someone's skill. It's just a meaningless hypothetical "what if", because there's obviously no way to verify its truth. Equally meaningless denials could be made by jealous controller users.

Jealousy is a problem of the jealous. As I said, tournament organizers will decide for themselves what they want to do with input methods. Beyond that, if someone feels insecure about their own choice of input methods, they might want to consider switching (or if they deem that a too arduous task, they might want to reconsider their opinion).
Sadly I expect there will be loads of people reporting controller users on Steam for cheating via an aimbot, the playerbase on there absolutely loves doing that to players who just have 1000's of hours in FPS gaming with godlike aiming, simply due to Valve's oversight of eventually banning accounts that have been reported too many times by too many players....
tsassi wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Considering Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism, some controller players may hit shots that otherwise would not be hit on M&KB. If this happens in tournament play, this will cause a ruckus. People will be downplaying the skills of players/teams who use controllers if there is mixed play in tournaments.
"He would not have hit it if he had used another input method" is a very absurd denial of someone's skill. It's just a meaningless hypothetical "what if", because there's obviously no way to verify its truth. Equally meaningless denials could be made by jealous controller users.

Jealousy is a problem of the jealous. As I said, tournament organizers will decide for themselves what they want to do with input methods. Beyond that, if someone feels insecure about their own choice of input methods, they might want to consider switching (or if they deem that a too arduous task, they might want to reconsider their opinion).
There are clips from tournaments where people have got sniper headshots through the sides of walls because bullet magnetism and the broadcasters even called it out. All it takes is one time of that happening for people to go nuts.
Leocadius wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Considering Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism, some controller players may hit shots that otherwise would not be hit on M&KB. If this happens in tournament play, this will cause a ruckus. People will be downplaying the skills of players/teams who use controllers if there is mixed play in tournaments.
"He would not have hit it if he had used another input method" is a very absurd denial of someone's skill. It's just a meaningless hypothetical "what if", because there's obviously no way to verify its truth. Equally meaningless denials could be made by jealous controller users.

Jealousy is a problem of the jealous. As I said, tournament organizers will decide for themselves what they want to do with input methods. Beyond that, if someone feels insecure about their own choice of input methods, they might want to consider switching (or if they deem that a too arduous task, they might want to reconsider their opinion).
There are clips from tournaments where people have got sniper headshots through the sides of walls because bullet magnetism and the boradcasters even called it out. All it takes is one time of that happening for people to go nuts.
That sounds like an issue with how the game prioritizes events and lag, rather than with bullet magntism per se. As far as I know all bullet magnetism does is change where on the screen shots are directed towards. The shot nonetheless travels in a straight line, and only hits if this line intersects the character model and doesn't intersect any obstacles. In the situation you described, I'd imagine that the shot is registered at a time in the simulation when there is still head visible, but for one reason or another the next frame is drawn such that the player model's head is fully behind the wall. I don't see how such an event couldn't happen without bullet magnetism.

In any case, I go back to my previous point: tournament organizers decide what is best for their tournaments. If they fear outrage, they will restrict to one input method. If they get swayed by outrage, then they do. If not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's a PR issue, which I don't feel is all interesting.
tsassi wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
tsassi wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Considering Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism, some controller players may hit shots that otherwise would not be hit on M&KB. If this happens in tournament play, this will cause a ruckus. People will be downplaying the skills of players/teams who use controllers if there is mixed play in tournaments.
"He would not have hit it if he had used another input method" is a very absurd denial of someone's skill. It's just a meaningless hypothetical "what if", because there's obviously no way to verify its truth. Equally meaningless denials could be made by jealous controller users.

Jealousy is a problem of the jealous. As I said, tournament organizers will decide for themselves what they want to do with input methods. Beyond that, if someone feels insecure about their own choice of input methods, they might want to consider switching (or if they deem that a too arduous task, they might want to reconsider their opinion).
There are clips from tournaments where people have got sniper headshots through the sides of walls because bullet magnetism and the boradcasters even called it out. All it takes is one time of that happening for people to go nuts.
That sounds like an issue with how the game prioritizes events and lag, rather than with bullet magntism per se. As far as I know all bullet magnetism does is change where on the screen shots are directed towards. The shot nonetheless travels in a straight line, and only hits if this line intersects the character model and doesn't intersect any obstacles. In the situation you described, I'd imagine that the shot is registered at a time in the simulation when there is still head visible, but for one reason or another the next frame is drawn such that the player model's head is fully behind the wall. I don't see how such an event couldn't happen without bullet magnetism.

In any case, I go back to my previous point: tournament organizers decide what is best for their tournaments. If they fear outrage, they will restrict to one input method. If they get swayed by outrage, then they do. If not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's a PR issue, which I don't feel is all interesting.
I get what you are saying for sure. Only thing is that these games are on LAN. Either way, I digress.
Leocadius wrote:
I get what you are saying for sure. Only thing is that these games are on LAN. Either way, I digress.
I know, but LAN is not without latency. It just enjoys less latency. Really, I'm just saying that registering a hit more or less requires a direct line of sight, so bullet magnetism isn't the culprit here. Of course, it is the easy scapegoat.
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Slickini wrote:
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Tell that to TSquared and Snipedown. They are planning to keep using controller, but like $150 controllers.
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Tell that to TSquared and Snipedown. They are planning to keep using controller, but like $150 controllers.
I used to play FPS games with my elite controller. Sure I had an edge on my enemies on consoles, but that edge didn't carry over to PC. My friend told me to get a g502 and... Oh boy oh boy... my entire gaming career revolutionized. I started to hit insane shots, shots that my brain cannot even compute. You should watch Relaaa on Youtube. Watch some of his videos, especially the Battlefield videos. This player is the ominous epitome of what controller users will face, because truth be told you won't be able to play like him with a controller. That's for sure.
Slickini wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Tell that to TSquared and Snipedown. They are planning to keep using controller, but like $150 controllers.
I used to play FPS games with my elite controller. Sure I had an edge on my enemies on consoles, but that edge didn't carry over to PC. My friend told me to get a g502 and... Oh boy oh boy... my entire gaming career revolutionized. I started to hit insane shots, shots that my brain cannot even compute. You should watch Relaaa on Youtube. Watch some of his videos, especially the Battlefield videos. This player is the ominous epitome of what controller users will face, because truth be told you won't be able to play like him with a controller. That's for sure.
I don't disagree that M&KB have an advantage. You just would be surprised by pro's who are planning to use controllers. After all, pro play is more than just accuracy.
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Tell that to TSquared and Snipedown. They are planning to keep using controller, but like $150 controllers.
I used to play FPS games with my elite controller. Sure I had an edge on my enemies on consoles, but that edge didn't carry over to PC. My friend told me to get a g502 and... Oh boy oh boy... my entire gaming career revolutionized. I started to hit insane shots, shots that my brain cannot even compute. You should watch Relaaa on Youtube. Watch some of his videos, especially the Battlefield videos. This player is the ominous epitome of what controller users will face, because truth be told you won't be able to play like him with a controller. That's for sure.
I don't disagree that M&KB have an advantage. You just would be surprised by pro's who are planning to use controllers. After all, pro play is more than just accuracy.
Yes of course I cannot disagree with this, but the extra accuracy from mouse and keyboard could potentially unlock more Pro plays because for instance you can be much faster to react, thanks to the precision the of the mouse and keyboard. I even think pros will be like "Ok that's enough, time to upgrade"
Slickini wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
Leocadius wrote:
Slickini wrote:
It doesn't matter really. Controller users will eventually get to the point they can't get improve anymore and face the fact they are limiting themselves. They'll be persuaded to use the mouse for competitive play
Tell that to TSquared and Snipedown. They are planning to keep using controller, but like $150 controllers.
I used to play FPS games with my elite controller. Sure I had an edge on my enemies on consoles, but that edge didn't carry over to PC. My friend told me to get a g502 and... Oh boy oh boy... my entire gaming career revolutionized. I started to hit insane shots, shots that my brain cannot even compute. You should watch Relaaa on Youtube. Watch some of his videos, especially the Battlefield videos. This player is the ominous epitome of what controller users will face, because truth be told you won't be able to play like him with a controller. That's for sure.
I don't disagree that M&KB have an advantage. You just would be surprised by pro's who are planning to use controllers. After all, pro play is more than just accuracy.
Yes of course I cannot disagree with this, but the extra accuracy from mouse and keyboard could potentially unlock more Pro plays because for instance you can be much faster to react, thanks to the precision the of the mouse and keyboard. I even think pros will be like "Ok that's enough, time to upgrade"
You may be right for the majority of players. However, there is a subset of players that think Halo is meant to be played on controller...some of them likely won't let it go.
I would not want aim assist for multiplayer pc version if they do add it no buy for me, defeats purpose of pc gaming in a nutshell.
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