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You will all have to choose: No aim assists for controllers and there will never be cross-platform, or deal with the aim assist and then you can play with your xbox friends.

Perhaps they can have a poll and have us all vote on such a decision.
Is there a poll yet?
There is no poll as of now.
You will all have to choose: No aim assists for controllers and there will never be cross-platform, or deal with the aim assist and then you can play with your xbox friends.

Perhaps they can have a poll and have us all vote on such a decision.
Is there a poll yet?
There is no poll as of now.
I guess I should make one then
Rather than trying to balance mouse and keyboard vs controller for MCC on PC, 343 should have focused on making MCC a proper PC game instead of what they released - a console game running on PC.

Now, this doesn't mean MCC is bad but its failure to get basic PC game requirements right has seriously had an impact on the player count. It doesn't feel good to play with a mouse and keyboard, it's missing a proper unlocked framerate and controller > mouse and keyboard currently.

I'm not sure at what point the release changed from 'when it's ready' to asap but I really am concerned for the longevity of Halo on PC if once again the PC versions are treated as an after thought. Halo PC had major problems (though the community were able to a large amount of it), Halo 2 Vista is widely regarded to have been a major failure due to the large number of bugs and GFWL implementation and now MCC is shaping up to be a disappointment unless things change.

Regarding Cross-play, this feature CAN be implemented effectively but why 343 or Microsoft insist on forcing balance between input methods is beyond me. Just do what other major games have done - input based matchmaking. This way, YOU can play MCC your way. Mouse and keyboard match with mouse and keyboard. Fancy playing with a controller and your buddies on Xbox One? Plug in your controller and only get matched with other controller users. I don't know why there's this persistence from Microsoft to try and find a balance, all it does is cause one input method to suffer over the other.

I believe in 343 and I believe they are fully capable of doing Halo right on PC but whoever is making them release MCC on PC like this risks causing problems for Infinite in the long run on PC too.
If they are worried about making the game fair, they should at least add crossplay for custom game, firefight, and campgain. That way friends from different devices can still play together no problem!
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
The only significant thing about controllers is the sticky aim, which can be annoying at some situations but isn't something that totally destroys balanace. Crossplay between PC and Xbox isn't in active development right now and much likely won't be until MCC is complere on pc.
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I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
The only significant thing about controllers is the sticky aim, which can be annoying at some situations but isn't something that totally destroys balanace. Crossplay between PC and Xbox isn't in active development right now and much likely won't be until MCC is complere on pc.
Well I hope they do something, within a few months of H3 on MCC the PC player base will be dead if they don't do anything.

edit: Modern Warfare is also a game that has split lobbies. Works flawlessly for them.

edit2: oh look, 343 are actually considering it:
  • Input-based Matchmaking
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-january-2020
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
The only significant thing about controllers is the sticky aim, which can be annoying at some situations but isn't something that totally destroys balanace. Crossplay between PC and Xbox isn't in active development right now and much likely won't be until MCC is complere on pc.
Well I hope they do something, within a few months of H3 on MCC the PC player base will be dead if they don't do anything.

edit: Modern Warfare is also a game that has split lobbies. Works flawlessly for them.

edit2: oh look, 343 are actually considering it:
  • Input-based Matchmaking
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-january-2020
COD is a multiplat franchise with annual releases and made for a much wider audience. Based on that one can assume that the playerbase is in the range of over multiple millions. Hope you get my point.
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
The only significant thing about controllers is the sticky aim, which can be annoying at some situations but isn't something that totally destroys balanace. Crossplay between PC and Xbox isn't in active development right now and much likely won't be until MCC is complere on pc.
Well I hope they do something, within a few months of H3 on MCC the PC player base will be dead if they don't do anything.

edit: Modern Warfare is also a game that has split lobbies. Works flawlessly for them.

edit2: oh look, 343 are actually considering it:
  • Input-based Matchmaking
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-january-2020
COD is a multiplat franchise with annual releases and made for a much wider audience. Based on that one can assume that the playerbase is in the range of over multiple millions. Hope you get my point.
MCC only has a small install base on PC because it doesn't feel good to play with M+K and is missing or has poor implementation of basic features expected in a PC port. If the game felt great to play with mouse and keyboard, it would probably perform better. There's also the problem that the current ports (Reach/CE) are incredibly unpolished and buggy, it doesn't ooze quality that we know 343 can produce. It feels like early access rather than a realised product.

Input-based matchmaking allows for cross-play and then this way, 343 doesn't have to waste time trying to balance the input method and can make the game play well for mouse and keyboard users whilst STILL allowing PC gamers to use a controller if they prefer to replicate the console experience should they choose to do so. But as it stands, trying to balance the mouse and keyboard with the controller has lead to the game feeling awful to play with m+k. It lacks high refresh rate support expected in competitive PC FPS's, it lacks graphical options, it lacks a server browser (kills community support). Look at Custom Edition as an example, it survived years thanks to the community, spawning custom maps, vehicles and campaigns. Imagine if the community could create stuff like that for MCC Xbox players too, the whole Halo community could benefit and sustain the games, together.

If MCC gets to a state where it rectifies the issues above, then it should retain a higher player base because it will play great like a PC game should. At that point, the quality of MCC on PC will match the console version, in which case, the final thing to do is to bring CE and 2 into parity with the OG Xbox version and then you will have a solid game all round.

End note - 343 are more than capable of this and I do not blame them for the state of the game currently. I suspect someone higher up is pushing for the MCC to be released as soon as possible rather than "when it's ready" in time for Halo Infinite's release, though all it does is make me worry about that PC version too.
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
I Achi I wrote:
wolvAU wrote:
Why is it so hard for 343 to split lobbies based on input type?
Put controller players with controller players, KBM with KBM. Then add cross-platform to the mix and watch the player pool skyrocket.

Come on 343. Have some foresight.
Splitting lobbies based on input type would most likely shrink the already small playerbase on pc. Nonetheless, there is no need for splitting the playerbase just because some people think the AA is too high imho.
AA IS too high though. Plug in a controller and check for yourself.

As a result, the playerbase is already tanking significantly. Splitting lobbies and enabling crossplay won't drop the population, it will save it.
The only significant thing about controllers is the sticky aim, which can be annoying at some situations but isn't something that totally destroys balanace. Crossplay between PC and Xbox isn't in active development right now and much likely won't be until MCC is complere on pc.
Well I hope they do something, within a few months of H3 on MCC the PC player base will be dead if they don't do anything.

edit: Modern Warfare is also a game that has split lobbies. Works flawlessly for them.

edit2: oh look, 343 are actually considering it:
  • Input-based Matchmaking
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-january-2020
COD is a multiplat franchise with annual releases and made for a much wider audience. Based on that one can assume that the playerbase is in the range of over multiple millions. Hope you get my point.
MCC only has a small install base on PC because it doesn't feel good to play with M+K and is missing or has poor implementation of basic features expected in a PC port. If the game felt great to play with mouse and keyboard, it would probably perform better. There's also the problem that the current ports (Reach/CE) are incredibly unpolished and buggy, it doesn't ooze quality that we know 343 can produce. It feels like early access rather than a realised product.

Input-based matchmaking allows for cross-play and then this way, 343 doesn't have to waste time trying to balance the input method and can make the game play well for mouse and keyboard users whilst STILL allowing PC gamers to use a controller if they prefer to replicate the console experience should they choose to do so. But as it stands, trying to balance the mouse and keyboard with the controller has lead to the game feeling awful to play with m+k. It lacks high refresh rate support expected in competitive PC FPS's, it lacks graphical options, it lacks a server browser (kills community support). Look at Custom Edition as an example, it survived years thanks to the community, spawning custom maps, vehicles and campaigns. Imagine if the community could create stuff like that for MCC Xbox players too, the whole Halo community could benefit and sustain the games, together.

If MCC gets to a state where it rectifies the issues above, then it should retain a higher player base because it will play great like a PC game should. At that point, the quality of MCC on PC will match the console version, in which case, the final thing to do is to bring CE and 2 into parity with the OG Xbox version and then you will have a solid game all round.

End note - 343 are more than capable of this and I do not blame them for the state of the game currently. I suspect someone higher up is pushing for the MCC to be released as soon as possible rather than "when it's ready" in time for Halo Infinite's release, though all it does is make me worry about that PC version too.
dear god thank you.

I tried explaining this on reddit but no they just keep downvoting me because no critique is allowed over there.
Cross platform is the only thing that can save MCC
I really don't like the argument about the input methods being unfair. If someone is better than me because they are using a different input method then they're better than me. Just rank them up and I'll play with the people who are similar to me in performance.

Thinking players should be split by input is the same as suggesting they should be split by things like turn speed, screen resolution, graphics quality, distance they are sat from their TV LOL blah blah blah. It wouldn't be fair otherwise now would it?!
I thin it'll be too late before they do this but I can guarantee that Infinite will have it
ouv wrote:
I thin it'll be too late before they do this but I can guarantee that Infinite will have it
Exactly this could happen. That if things are not fix in times with the older series of halo games. That been around for ages. I have a feeling that crossplay likely won't happen till at least Halo 4 that when we may see something. earliest id say is halo 3.

A lot of fixes do need to be done before crossplay even happens. Crossplay alone will not save these series if the games have bugs that are major.
how is aim assist a problem? mouse and keyboard have been and always will be superior, thats WHY aim assist exists in the first place lmai

controller users get aim assist and they still cant react as fast or as smoothly, mouse and keyboard players get precision usage

not sure how anyone could possibly believe that aim assist is unfair as even professional console players disable it because its worse than not using it at all lmao
CKhupp wrote:
how is aim assist a problem? mouse and keyboard have been and always will be superior, thats WHY aim assist exists in the first place lmai

controller users get aim assist and they still cant react as fast or as smoothly, mouse and keyboard players get precision usage

not sure how anyone could possibly believe that aim assist is unfair as even professional console players disable it because its worse than not using it at all lmao
It's an issue at the moment because of the input lag and forced Vsync (higher than 60hz breaks the accuracy for Halo on controller + mouse and keyboard).

Controller gets responsive movement, aiming and strong bullet magnetism (crosshair doesn't have to be on the target and the bullets will 'curve' to the target), meaning as long as you're roughly head level with your aim, the controller should easily 4/5 shot a target. I suspect the reason why the controller plays so well is because of MCC being an Xbox game and thus designed for a controller to begin with.

Mouse control on the other hand, unlike a game like Call of Duty, Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six etc, Halo MCC on PC has input lag. This makes the game feel incredibly sluggish, making it difficult to make micro adjustments when needed and to do so on time. It's not impossible but the added latency to balance the mouse controls against the controller has made the controller the superior way to play. This is likely because mouse and keyboard are either poorly implemented or are being forcibly balanced (hence the high input lag).

If input based matchmaking is implemented, then 343 can make the mouse play like a proper PC game and have quick, responsive inputs instead of what feels like dragging your hand through mud. It allows you, the player, to decide if you want to use a controller or get the precision of a mouse and keyboard.

But as it stands right now, MCC has made the same mistake as Halo 2 Vista and Shadowrun - the game is trying to forcibly balance controller input methods when it shouldn't. Choice is the answer. Right now, MCC on PC needs to become a PC game and not a console game running on PC. Fix the input latency, add input based matchmaking for cross-play and fix the higher than 60hz issues.

Then we'll have a great PC game that all can enjoy, regardless of input method and platform.
CKhupp wrote:
how is aim assist a problem? mouse and keyboard have been and always will be superior, thats WHY aim assist exists in the first place lmai

controller users get aim assist and they still cant react as fast or as smoothly, mouse and keyboard players get precision usage

not sure how anyone could possibly believe that aim assist is unfair as even professional console players disable it because its worse than not using it at all lmao
It's an issue at the moment because of the input lag and forced Vsync (higher than 60hz breaks the accuracy for Halo on controller + mouse and keyboard).

Controller gets responsive movement, aiming and strong bullet magnetism (crosshair doesn't have to be on the target and the bullets will 'curve' to the target), meaning as long as you're roughly head level with your aim, the controller should easily 4/5 shot a target.

Mouse control on the other hand, unlike a game like Call of Duty, Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six etc, Halo MCC on PC has input lag. This makes the game feel incredibly sluggish, making it difficult to make micro adjustments when needed and to do so on time. It's not impossible but the added latency to balance the mouse controls against the controller has made the controller the superior way to play.

If input based matchmaking is implemented, then 343 can make the mouse play like a proper PC game and have quick, responsive inputs instead of what feels like dragging your hand through mud. It allows you, the player, to decide if you want to use a controller or get the precision of a mouse and keyboard.

But as it stands right now, MCC has made the same mistake as Halo 2 Vista and Shadowrun - the game is trying to forcibly balance controller input methods when it shouldn't. Choice is the answer. Right now, MCC on PC needs to become a PC game and not a console game running on PC. Fix the input latency, add input based matchmaking for cross-play and fix the higher than 60hz issues.

Then we'll have a great PC game that all can enjoy, regardless of input method and platform.
Someone else already mentioned that controllers only have the "sticky aim". Bullet magnetism is the same on m&k & controller. Please put this debate to an end as people complaining won't do anything but close threads like this.
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