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Great... 343 added more competitive rank based...

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Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
This is why I build teams before hand... I don't get afkers, trolls, griefers or horrible teammates when I do that...

Maybe you should consider doing that as well perhaps? As you play, find people you work well with and try to make friends with them. Maybe make a steam community and invite them so people know when others are on. Get enough that even when some are offline or not playing you still have a large selection of people to make a full team at any given point. Then reap the rewards of taking a little time to put this altogether.
slvrbl wrote:
Postums wrote:
yourma2000 wrote:
All rewards should only be done in singleplayer, co-op or social multiplayer only. Stuff like the arby/chief nameplate, the recent halloween nameplates or the Endure challenge with the bug splattered Buck skin were fun to earn, why the hell force everyone into competitive where enjoyment is lost and the odds of earning the reward in time are slim?
Devils advocate.

What if I don't like playing firefight or campaign at all and only prefer playing ranked multiplayer? Why do I have to go into those game modes to earn something when it doesn't match my play style?

We offer a variety of ways to earn skins, nameplates, and customization items in MCC. The vast majority can be earned through standard gameplay in any game mode with most historically being in non-PVP modes. This style of challenge helps support those who play multiplayer and would like to play ranked matchmaking.

Cheers,
Postums
Postums,

What you and the person you quoted are both doing is gate keeping. As the developer of a longstanding series with numerous communities all over the spectrum from casual to hardcore, pve to pvp, single player vs. multiplayer, and custom content creators to name a few, forcing these groups into specific modes they may not enjoy is not okay. You should be focusing on making the content accessible.

You can have a progression model that rewards and incentivizes players for demonstrating skill or participating in a certain event without alienating the rest your player base. After the challenge to unlock that particular reward expires, make reward available for purchase at higher season point costs (10SP for example).
Now players can choose to grind their way to these rewards in any mode by any means they wish, while those who successfully completed the challenge for their reward can enjoy early acquisition and the bragging rights available during that period.

You could throw these awards into an exclusive season that regularly updates its offerings when these events expire or simply add a button prompt for direct season points expenditure whenever you select the challenge exclusive item in the customization menu.
Alternate unlocks are only alternate if there are multiple ways to get said unlock.

I for one did not get into halo because of its pro scene or pvp. It was the casual coop pve that drew me in back in 2001, but the over emphasis on the pro scene to the exclusion of everyone else is driving me (and I imagine others as well) away.
It's just cosmetics isn't it? Being driven away just because of cosmetics is rather petty if you ask me...
Quote:
What you and the person you quoted are both doing is gate keeping.
No, what I'm doing is recommending that 343i's gate keeping be toned down.
Postums wrote:
yourma2000 wrote:
All rewards should only be done in singleplayer, co-op or social multiplayer only. Stuff like the arby/chief nameplate, the recent halloween nameplates or the Endure challenge with the bug splattered Buck skin were fun to earn, why the hell force everyone into competitive where enjoyment is lost and the odds of earning the reward in time are slim?
Devils advocate.

What if I don't like playing firefight or campaign at all and only prefer playing ranked multiplayer? Why do I have to go into those game modes to earn something when it doesn't match my play style?

We offer a variety of ways to earn skins, nameplates, and customization items in MCC. The vast majority can be earned through standard gameplay in any game mode with most historically being in non-PVP modes. This style of challenge helps support those who play multiplayer and would like to play ranked matchmaking.

Cheers,
Postums
Because it's no skin off of competitive players noses to drop down to the more relaxed gameplay to earn some rewards, however the same can't be said for the reverse where you're asking social players to gain a significant rank (which can go up or down based on performance) in a game setting that they've never played before in a fixed amount of time.

Completing the Alliance and Endure challenges were a hassle due to no matchmaking, but what you're asking with these new rewards is unrealistic for the vast majority of social only players.

Also you're not supporting competitive games by sending a ton of social players there for a reward, you're just ruining games for and irritating the people that were already there by making them play along side people who've never played competitively before.

If people who play multiplayer would like to play ranked matchmaking, they'll go play rank matchmaking. They don't need rewards to do so, they're incentivised enough already by wanting to play ranked regardless.
slvrbl wrote:
Postums wrote:
yourma2000 wrote:
All rewards should only be done in singleplayer, co-op or social multiplayer only. Stuff like the arby/chief nameplate, the recent halloween nameplates or the Endure challenge with the bug splattered Buck skin were fun to earn, why the hell force everyone into competitive where enjoyment is lost and the odds of earning the reward in time are slim?
Devils advocate.

What if I don't like playing firefight or campaign at all and only prefer playing ranked multiplayer? Why do I have to go into those game modes to earn something when it doesn't match my play style?

We offer a variety of ways to earn skins, nameplates, and customization items in MCC. The vast majority can be earned through standard gameplay in any game mode with most historically being in non-PVP modes. This style of challenge helps support those who play multiplayer and would like to play ranked matchmaking.

Cheers,
Postums
Postums,

What you and the person you quoted are both doing is gate keeping. As the developer of a longstanding series with numerous communities all over the spectrum from casual to hardcore, pve to pvp, single player vs. multiplayer, and custom content creators to name a few, forcing these groups into specific modes they may not enjoy is not okay. You should be focusing on making the content accessible.

You can have a progression model that rewards and incentivizes players for demonstrating skill or participating in a certain event without alienating the rest your player base. After the challenge to unlock that particular reward expires, make reward available for purchase at higher season point costs (10SP for example).
Now players can choose to grind their way to these rewards in any mode by any means they wish, while those who successfully completed the challenge for their reward can enjoy early acquisition and the bragging rights available during that period.

You could throw these awards into an exclusive season that regularly updates its offerings when these events expire or simply add a button prompt for direct season points expenditure whenever you select the challenge exclusive item in the customization menu.
Alternate unlocks are only alternate if there are multiple ways to get said unlock.

I for one did not get into halo because of its pro scene or pvp. It was the casual coop pve that drew me in back in 2001, but the over emphasis on the pro scene to the exclusion of everyone else is driving me (and I imagine others as well) away.
It's just cosmetics isn't it? Being driven away just because of cosmetics is rather petty if you ask me...
Feel free to call it petty, but it does not change the fact that 343 playing favorites with one portion of their player base to the exclusion of the the rest is a problem. The presence of this thread and its numerous duplicates here and on the steam forums should be proof that it is a big deal to a fair amount of players, petty or not. Players should be allowed to play whatever modes and settings they prefer without being punished by loosing access to content (cosmetic or not).

I want to play Halo regularly, but its PVE loop does get stale pretty quick. The progression system and difficulty settings are the only real sources of replayability right now. Since I do not enjoy playing punishingly hard modes, that just leaves me with the progression system.

My disenfranchisement is less about the cosmetics and more about 343 playing fun police on a series with a core design philosophy of "30 seconds fun" by (per Postums post) hanging a sign that effectively says the devs are elitists and casuals need not play.

yourma2000 wrote:
Quote:
What you and the person you quoted are both doing is gate keeping.
No, what I'm doing is recommending that 343i's gate keeping be toned down.
For the record, I do agree with you. 343 needs to tone it down. I mentioned you in that quote because quoting Postums carried your quote in as well, and it felt out of place to single him out while your quote was in the same post. I should've formatted that better.
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
But you don't reward me for being good, you punish me by matching me up with the worst players in the game to 'balance' the teams. Which means I lose matches because I get people who go -15, even if I go game after game +16 +15 +20 +18 +14. Almost every game I get put with teammates who are so bad that my team does better if they lag out or quit.

MCC has the worst ranking system ever, because it doesn't sort good players from bad. I never had this problem in H2, H3, or Reach. Only MCC. No other Halo game made me play with such bad players over and over.

How is it fair to punish me for being a skilled player by matching me with bad teammates, instead of letting me play fair games with higher ranked players like other games in the collection?

I scored 27 kills in Recon Slayer the other day, going +18. My team still lost through no fault of my own, and the game lowered my rank from 6 to 5. And then you blame me for not being skilled enough.

If you had a decent ranking system that matched teams fairly, I'd be a much higher rank, I'd play other high ranked players, and I wouldn't have to play with players so bad that they're essentially a negative rank.
Photolysis wrote:
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
But you don't reward me for being good, you punish me by matching me up with the worst players in the game to 'balance' the teams. Which means I lose matches because I get people who go -15, even if I go game after game +16 +15 +20 +18 +14. Almost every game I get put with teammates who are so bad that my team does better if the lag out or quit.

MCC has the worst ranking system ever, because it doesn't sort good players from bad.

How is it fair to punish me for being a skilled player by matching me with bad teammates, instead of letting me play fair games with higher ranked players like other games in the collection? No other Halo game made me play with such bad players over and over.
While I won't say it cannot be improved. There's also nothing really stopping you from avoiding bad players by making friends with people you work well with and teaming up before you queue for a match. The tools are right there to help you avoid this problem, if you choose not to utilize them then that's on you.
Photolysis wrote:
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
But you don't reward me for being good, you punish me by matching me up with the worst players in the game to 'balance' the teams. Which means I lose matches because I get people who go -15, even if I go game after game +16 +15 +20 +18 +14. Almost every game I get put with teammates who are so bad that my team does better if the lag out or quit.

MCC has the worst ranking system ever, because it doesn't sort good players from bad.

How is it fair to punish me for being a skilled player by matching me with bad teammates, instead of letting me play fair games with higher ranked players like other games in the collection? No other Halo game made me play with such bad players over and over.
While I won't say it cannot be improved. There's also nothing really stopping you from avoiding bad players by making friends with people you work well with and teaming up before you queue for a match. The tools are right there to help you avoid this problem, if you choose not to utilize them then that's on you.
And I'll just magic up these teammates from nowhere, because I don't get competent teammates.

Defending 343i by blaming players for not using "available tools" when they've victims of bad matchmaking is utterly disingenuous. If a ranking system cannot actually rank players accurately, it is useless and needs to be scrapped. Every other Halo game managed this fine.

The system is not fit for purpose.
Photolysis wrote:
Photolysis wrote:
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
But you don't reward me for being good, you punish me by matching me up with the worst players in the game to 'balance' the teams. Which means I lose matches because I get people who go -15, even if I go game after game +16 +15 +20 +18 +14. Almost every game I get put with teammates who are so bad that my team does better if the lag out or quit.

MCC has the worst ranking system ever, because it doesn't sort good players from bad.

How is it fair to punish me for being a skilled player by matching me with bad teammates, instead of letting me play fair games with higher ranked players like other games in the collection? No other Halo game made me play with such bad players over and over.
While I won't say it cannot be improved. There's also nothing really stopping you from avoiding bad players by making friends with people you work well with and teaming up before you queue for a match. The tools are right there to help you avoid this problem, if you choose not to utilize them then that's on you.
And I'll just magic up these teammates from nowhere, because I don't get competent teammates.

Defending 343i by blaming players for not using "available tools" when they've victims of bad matchmaking is utterly disingenuous. If a ranking system cannot actually rank players accurately, it is useless and needs to be scrapped. Every other Halo game managed this fine.

The system is not fit for purpose.
uh huh....
Welp, you have fun then I guess from here on out then...
slvrbl wrote:
Postums wrote:
yourma2000 wrote:
All rewards should only be done in singleplayer, co-op or social multiplayer only. Stuff like the arby/chief nameplate, the recent halloween nameplates or the Endure challenge with the bug splattered Buck skin were fun to earn, why the hell force everyone into competitive where enjoyment is lost and the odds of earning the reward in time are slim?
Devils advocate.

What if I don't like playing firefight or campaign at all and only prefer playing ranked multiplayer? Why do I have to go into those game modes to earn something when it doesn't match my play style?

We offer a variety of ways to earn skins, nameplates, and customization items in MCC. The vast majority can be earned through standard gameplay in any game mode with most historically being in non-PVP modes. This style of challenge helps support those who play multiplayer and would like to play ranked matchmaking.

Cheers,
Postums
Postums,

What you and the person you quoted are both doing is gate keeping. As the developer of a longstanding series with numerous communities all over the spectrum from casual to hardcore, pve to pvp, single player vs. multiplayer, and custom content creators to name a few, forcing these groups into specific modes they may not enjoy is not okay. You should be focusing on making the content accessible.

You can have a progression model that rewards and incentivizes players for demonstrating skill or participating in a certain event without alienating the rest your player base. After the challenge to unlock that particular reward expires, make reward available for purchase at higher season point costs (10SP for example).
Now players can choose to grind their way to these rewards in any mode by any means they wish, while those who successfully completed the challenge for their reward can enjoy early acquisition and the bragging rights available during that period.

You could throw these awards into an exclusive season that regularly updates its offerings when these events expire or simply add a button prompt for direct season points expenditure whenever you select the challenge exclusive item in the customization menu.
Alternate unlocks are only alternate if there are multiple ways to get said unlock.

I for one did not get into halo because of its pro scene or pvp. It was the casual coop pve that drew me in back in 2001, but the over emphasis on the pro scene to the exclusion of everyone else is driving me (and I imagine others as well) away.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. No one complained when you had to beat Halo 3 or 4 on legendary to acquire exclusive armor. It is called a Challenge for a reason. As I'm seeing a few say, you are not at all forced to do anything, if you want the skin this is how its done and that's, that. I agree maybe a better and more refined ranking system more closely to something of Halo 5 Guardians ranked would be appreciated that way the matchmaking is a bit more fair. However, all a rank shows in this game is how many times you've won a match, I'm sure there are players who aren't so skilled getting carried to a high rank because their playing with skilled players. Like you, Halo was a game I played for the co-op and PVE experience at a young age. But specifically with these challenges, it has nothing to do with the challenge itself, but more so just your will to endure through the challenge and accomplish it. Keep it up 343, you're trying your best, as a halo fan, I'm glad I can just play Halo with my friends on PC...
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
The issue is that you don't take your competitive player base seriously. There are hundreds of smurfs, griefers, trolls, afkers and all on top of that the MM for comp is completely broken. Its very easy to take advantage of by making a new account (having someone start at 1) and then queue with your main account (say 20) and get to versus super easy players that are all 10s.

Tons of people do this and its a super easy way to get to that desired rank of 25.

You aren't helping the community with these rewards, instead you are further dividing it, causing less and less people wanting to play the game due to how toxic competitive is getting.

Oh, and also the report player system is completely garbage for MCC as well. So even if you do get trolls and griefers, there's no real system in place to report these people and thus the cycle never gets fixed.

Postums, you have no idea what you're talking about man.

I remember playing against you before and you clearly weren't that skilled of a player so I doubt you have ever gotten past 15-20 on your own in a competitive playlist for MCC.

Sigh. Can't believe I have to even do this and call you out like that.

Edit:

Postums, you also just proved to me how out of touch you are with the community as well with your comment.

Personally, I was able to get to 25 in Recon Slayer on my own via solo queueing, so I'm sure I can get to 25 in H4 Squad battle as well. So me actually achieving these skins or not is not the issue, its how poorly 343 implements this and how they have no idea how this is actually a bad thing for the community and the competitive playlists. It creates an artificial desire for people to actually want to play that playlist and creates a sub-community of toxicity and griefers and trolls and afks. And all on top of this the MM is broken its self. Good players are always queued with bad teammates if you go in solo, thus creating a system where people queue with fresh smurf accounts and boost their mains. (taken from my main post)
I don't think there's anything wrong at all behind locking certain skins behind difficult multiplayer challenges or hell difficult challenges in general. Ideally, it's something that should incentive players to either work harder or work smarter to get better at the game. I do agree though that MCC's matchmaking system has something seriously wrong with it though since I have also come across the issue of getting the absolute bottom of the barrel tier players who have probably never player a single game of Halo before in their lives and it is frustrating how often this happens. I can hold my own in a game, but I am by no means a great player and when I see that I'm the one leading the team by a significant margin, it fills me with dread to see how my own team mates are doing by comparison.
Realize this will get more people in ranked, rather than having PC ranked completely dead. This is a good thing
ouv wrote:
Realize this will get more people in ranked, rather than having PC ranked completely dead. This is a good thing
You are correct, until November 24, 2020, when the players who were playing Recon Slayer stop playing because the incentive of the Avalanche skin is gone. This will also repeat whenever the new season starts and the Halo 4 ranked matchmaking challenges go away. Players who were there for that challenge may also stop playing.

I don't disagree with you on the idea of getting more people into playing ranked games. This could have been done through a different type of challenge though, like getting 200 kills in ranked Recon Slayer matches. That way people can't AFK to complete it and everyone would have the opportunity to get the skins.

I don't dislike 343 because they aren't Bungie, but I'm starting to dislike them because they think players like me shouldn't have some of their content because of who I am and how I play Halo.
ouv wrote:
Realize this will get more people in ranked, rather than having PC ranked completely dead. This is a good thing
More people in ranked is not a good thing if they dont actually take care of the competitive community in the first place. Its a toxicity hell hole now. People dont actually want to be here in these playlists. They're just here for the skin.
ouv wrote:
Realize this will get more people in ranked, rather than having PC ranked completely dead. This is a good thing
More people in ranked is not a good thing if they dont actually take care of the competitive community in the first place. Its a toxicity hell hole now. People dont actually want to be here in these playlists. They're just here for the skin.
This game is toxic
I think the big problem with tying the reward to rank, is the ranking system itself is super basic. Up to like level 8 or something 1 win brought you up and a loss brought you down, and since above that its 2 wins/2 losses to rank/derank. So basically you always know youre either rank 16 or 16.5. Like I just made it to 16, if i win again im still 16, if i lose im back to 15 (but 15.5, so another loss keeps me at 15). Ive been keeping track of wins and losses for the last 63 games, and thats really how it works. So climbing to level 20 really just means you have to win ~32 games more than you lose. It has nothing to do with the enemy teams ranks, you starting the match with 3 people, anything. Its just essentially needing a win loss differential.

This system is outdated by any means because in proper matchmaking the ideal is 50/50. If you win more your not at your right rank. But without placements, peple are mired into playing wildly unbalanced games. Say youre good enough to win 60% of your games, that still means on average you'd need to play 160 games to reach rank 20. 60% win rate is unheard of in actual ranking systems, and 160 games is a ridiculous number. At 55% win rate you need 320 games. So now combine that ludicrous need, then add a limited time restriction and the fact that leavers and griefers are abundant, and you have a consistently disappointing time.

I played 25 matches today. I won 13, lost 12. So I went from rank 17 to 17.5. made 0 progress despite basically 4 hours of playtime. In those 25 matches:
3 were within 10 points (50-40 or closer)
12 were within 20 points (50-30 or closer)
the other 10 were complete stomps one way or the other. That should rarely ever happen, especially not in a ranked playlist, but happening a full 40% of the time is embarassing.
In 8 games one team had 3 players before 10 kills were accrued. Some games they loaded in with 3, other games they started losing the first skirmish and rage quit.

Theres better ways to make a challenge that is respectful of players times. Even if you want performance based, make it a certain amount of games with a positive KDA, certain amount of plays, certain amount of wins. Anything but succumbing to the misery that is this challenge.
Postums wrote:
Great... 343 added more competitive rank based challenges and rewards.

Only way to get certain skins is by sifting thru a bunch of afkers, trolls, grifers, and horrible teammates, I can't wait.

Oh, in Halo 4 as well none the less, and you have to hit an even higher rank this time around as well!

Enjoy guys!

343 really does not know their player base, my god.
Not everyone will acquire the skins in multiplayer. This is a known. However, players who reach higher levels should be rewarded for their efforts. I'm sorry that this frustrates you, but this is something we plan to continue to do as it helps players of higher skill show off that they are highly skilled in multiplayer efforts.

Cheers,
Postums
I mean, yea it's true that players should be rewarded for their efforts, but the rewards aren't worth it if they're having to carry afkers, griefers and etc. just to "break even" with the rank they've worked hard to acquire. No bash, but there aren't any reasons to deal with that just for the rewards to look like common images (line streaks, camos, etc.). Why not just make those skins animated? or, why not try to make something unique, like a helmet for that playlist? Heck, no animated nameplates since that will constantly be talked about?

Honestly, I'm really starting to know that you guys either: A: Aren't playing, B: have never played, or C: tested your competitive playlists. It seems that the only thing that's being payed attention to are reviews. Needless to say, all of what you've said is being done VERY late right now. Judging by the state of the current playerbase, that option has sailed by; so there's no point in trying that.
Just played a game, went 35-11, had more than half of the teams kills (out of 6 people / 75 kills) still lost the game and then deranked.

Great MM system you got here 343.
i think it's fine. it adds a challenge and not just a stupid grind. some people seem to be complaining, just bc they don't want to be bothered with a challenge, which deserves the name challenge. and no, i don't think i will be able to fulfill the challenge but the only thing i would get for it is just a skin in a game.
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