Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

IDEA TO SATISFY BOTH M+KB & CONTROLLER PLAYERS

OP Gravenberg

I know "tl;dr" posts typically remain obscure but I actually have a real concern I'd like to communicate to the devs at 343.

Just saw this video Hidden Xperia shared of some pretty wild Mouse & Keyboard gameplay in (presumably) FireFlight & was pretty blown away by the mouse-whipping nonsense:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1165366686687645697

I'm a casual PC Gamer & a former Xbox fanboy...and, of course, a long-time Halo fan. Seeing the controls work this well for someone is extremely exciting to me, & I'm sure is just as thrilling for many of you. That being said, I am continually surprised to see the grumbling masses of controller purists who are worried about mouse & keyboard dominating the matchmaking landscape.
I showed the clip to 3 of my other Halo PC hopefuls and, as excited as they still are, their initial & lasting reactions were surprisingly similar -- they're worried that the classic casual social experience won't be possible in the PC matchmaking pool with many players probably shredding keys like this dude -- EVEN with a competent skill-ranking system.

If you've read this far, you might be thinking "complainers gonna complain" and "console fanboys are just mad" but hear me out -- I am personally ecstatic for this exciting new frontier of competitive Halo & PC FPS as a whole. HOWEVER, I want Halo PC to allow the series to be able to continue & maintain it's ability+reputation for also being a fun & chill multiplayer hangout where you can grab a controller, throw yourself on your couch, and play some casual social slayer --with an Xbox OR a Home Theater PC (many of my friends are now favoring living room HTPCs, so it's not a distant minority from my perspective today). I partially agree that the drastic control advantage Mouse & Keyboard provides can scare off the large number of waiting fans that would love to play this series again having left Xbox a while ago (or are no longer interested in gaming with Xbox Live Gold) but won't be able to handle/enjoy the pressure of jumping straight into a lobby of what feels to them like Adderall-infused Quake Esports Pros. It's actually the reason my friends & I left PUBG -- we love(d) that game, but after several years, the community is saturated with multi-year veterans who make us feel like we're wasting our time bothering. I am significantly better at Quake Champions (And Quake Live lol), but it is a better example of a solid modern Arena FPS struggling to survive without an entry-level community (beyond the Hero roster problems).

Very different games from Halo, I know, but Halo has the major advantage of having a considerably large formerly console-based community that join the PC player base with ease by still having the ability to play with others the way they grew up playing: with joysticks. It ain't about which one is better, because there pros & cons to both.

***LONG STORY SHORT***
Halo MCC PC could greatly benefit from a proposed social matchmaking filter where all matchmade games are split into 2 pools:
-ALL PLAYERS
-CONTROLLER ONLY (to enforce this, Mouse & Keyboard input would be blocked for all gameplay except for the settings menu)

This will give console players a way to board the PC platform and have the same gameplay environment they remember but having access to the new Halo PC community frontier, in addition to the obvious graphics benefits of PC gaming ;) This preserves the casual environment of Halo social gaming while also allowing for competitive PC gamers to flex as much as they want. This would also give 343 the opportunity to rationalize crossplay (should it happen...) by allowing the CONTROLLER ONLY pool to queue with Xbox One & Xbox Scarlett gamers.
A reasonably accessible casual multiplayer experience leads to higher player self-confidence, enjoyment, AND admiration of top-tier performers in the Esports space.
This filter could also be implemented for Ranked as well IF 343 IS INTERESTED IN MAINTAINING & BOLSTERING THE -CONSOLE- SIDE OF HALO ESPORTS. I mention this because Halo MLG is one of the longest running & historically best performing console-based Esports franchises to date. While most multiplat competitive titles (ie Rainbow Six Siege) tend to significantly favor their PC-based Esports events, Halo can benefit from keeping Xbox Halo MLG alive, should competitive Halo PC strike a chord. Not every Halo Esports Veteran will be able to have the same success & ability on PC, so it would be up to 343 of how important that is to support.

I think this is a legitimate idea that should be considered & would like to know what you guys think, what sounds potentially useful for the continued success of the series, & if there's a way to get this to someone at 343 who would give it a read (if it's worth it).
Maybe it can be considered for Flight #3?
We'll find out in Flight #3 just how intense matchmaking is with all that raw Mouse & Keyboard goodness -- it's a stretch but maybe players will just take to it and the series will survive without this concept...but I'm worried because, in a market saturated with overly-competitive sweaty titles, I fear for the loss of the HUGE strength Halo has by being both chill & tense. As hybrid Xbox & PC Gamer, Halo NEEDS to maintain that healthy competitive AND casual player economy

...also, if we need to list off more financial benefits to trying to bring aboard controller-purists, it's great way to convert those Xbox Live Gold unsubs into Xbox Games Pass PC and Ultimate subs.

Tell me what you think, I want to see how the community & devs feel about this!!
if you want to handicap yourself that's your prerogative, but screwing up the health of matchmaking by putting you into another pool is an absurdly terrible idea

/thread
I'd see this making sense, to only match gamepad users together on PC... IF there was also crossplay with the Xbox player base thrown in. Otherwise, you may as well keep both parties together on PC and not fragment the popation any more than it currently is, even on console.
Zombie3153 wrote:
if you want to handicap yourself that's your prerogative, but screwing up the health of matchmaking by putting you into another pool is an absurdly terrible idea

/thread
Yeah, the general response I've recieved goes mostly along those lines & it seems my local group is in the minority big time. Asking for a filter feature to accommodate more casual users trying to leave consoles behind is a big ask & I don't expect it now lol. It would at LEAST be nice if they had an algorithm in Social Slayer that tries to match players with similar control methods rather than fully random...but if not, I hope that the skill level system balances things out. You can blame them/us for handicapping ourselves & tell us to get good, but I just don't think that's a great mindset for a franchise that's REALLY in need of a big win right now and has been console locked for all of 10+ years...

In regards to dividing the player base, hell, then at least the algorithm system that I mentioned above or something -- even Reach at launch had an optional basic gameplay preference/attitude setting for matchmaking that I always used. If it's within the platform, they don't fill the Multiplayer with trash empty niche playlists, & there's no paid map packs, having control style bias for social can't hurt anyone.
I'd see this making sense, to only match gamepad users together on PC... IF there was also crossplay with the Xbox player base thrown in. Otherwise, you may as well keep both parties together on PC and not fragment the popation any more than it currently is, even on console.
Yeah, if crossplay is never considered or possible, then I do realize that it would be for a probably tiny group of players & I just happen to be one. Like I mentioned to the person above, instead of a hard filter, then some kind of control style bias that, if possible, attempts to pair players up with similar control preferences/devices. Something like that is probably more commonly used than I think, I'm just hoping we at least get that. If I have to be at my desk & constantly playing sweaty in order to enjoy myself & not get quick scoped or go back to Xbox Live Gold...I'll just deal with it and get good.
Skill-based matchmaking solves all of this. Separate on in Social, together in Ranked. If you don't want to be beaten by MKB users, then use MKB.
Why do you seem to think that KB&M = non-casual? Some of the sweatiest comp-only Destiny 2 PVP players I know are controller users on PC. On the flip, I am casual AF and only use KB&M in shooters since swapping from XBox to PC.

I dont want to see a 'controllers only' playlist. More fragmentation in an already pretty wide-spread game isnt something Id encourage.
A clean straight to the point solution is Input based matchmaking, even the reboot for MW is using this and is crossplay on all platforms, PC/XO/PS4.

If you're on pad, it'll match you with pad players, if you're on KB/M it will match you with KB/M. For when you and a friend are on different inputs itll send you into a mixed pool. Let people play on what they prefer, it's not rocket science.
After going from Bungie Halos to Destiny and D2, and from what PC PvP I played in D2 a few months ago, mouse and controller were about on par with each other. When using a controller, your aim assist was boosted to match the console experience, which is able to keep up with a good number of mouse users.
The only downside in D2's case is hand cannons get more bloom on controller to prevent them from dominating PvP, but that's another discussion.

I'm in the boat where My desk isn't suited for a normal mouse, and my mouse (thumb trackball) isn't suited for shooters. I've used this same kind of mouse for over 10 years now and generally prefer controller for all of my gaming, so I'm using it on D2 for PC, and hopefully, MCC. If they can boost aim assist on controller for PC to keep up with mouse users, that may be the solution it needs. But I have the same worry as some of your friends. I fear I'll be avoiding PC for PvP altogether. I don't want to have to do that, but I'm also looking for a casual experience where I just kick back in social slayer, have fun, and not worry about getting absolutely wrecked.
Honestly I wouldn't be bothered if they just mixed both MKB and controller together without a filter. Controller players complain about MKB having greater precision and MKB players will complain about controller aim assist. Everyone has their johns and unless its top tier gameplay mixing both won't have that big effect on casual gameplay.
The main issue with your proposal is that PC features would still be inaccessible to console players. I don't see this working unless FOV and advanced sensitivity options make their way over to Xbox.
KingBidois wrote:
Why do you seem to think that KB&M = non-casual? Some of the sweatiest comp-only Destiny 2 PVP players I know are controller users on PC. On the flip, I am casual AF and only use KB&M in shooters since swapping from XBox to PC.

I dont want to see a 'controllers only' playlist. More fragmentation in an already pretty wide-spread game isnt something Id encourage.
I understand you & I'm kinda walking back this concept in my head bc it definitely seems like it won't make sense. Some games have implemented control type bias algorithms to try & match up players with similar control schemes, so I'll just hope that the guys at 343 are able to at least consider that. If crossplay is eventually added, they will have to but it's unlikely until then.

I believe you but for me, I can only game casually in a comfortable way with a controller, preferably from the couch. I basically want the benefits of PC gaming but to also have a console-like experience on my living room TV. I play about 50/50 between controller & M&KB and I only use mouse+kb when I'm playing competitively on a weekend or if it's a game like CS:GO or R6 Siege.
I have a corsair lapboard & a custom wristrest add-on for playing with m+kb from the couch, but it just doesn't make sense to me xD I just cant be as relaxed when I'm sitting upright at my desk!
But this must make me seem like a complete whiner though so I can see that haha. I guess I'm just hoping for the ability to play Halo PC Social Slayer with a controller & on my HTPC and to NOT get constantly shredded by PC gamers walking all over me. PC casual gaming =/= Console/Controller casual gaming in my experience & opinion.
I'll just get gud if that's what I gotta do.

omarlotrc wrote:
The main issue with your proposal is that PC features would still be inaccessible to console players. I don't see this working unless FOV and advanced sensitivity options make their way over to Xbox.
Yeah, that's the only drawback, would be GREAT if it ended up being a bargaining tool for getting adjustable FOV on console, but that's a long shot lol.

I agree that crossplay between Xbox & PC will come with graphical issues, but that's why i'd argue that it's acceptable for social playlists. It's probably a bad idea for crossplay to be possibel in PC Ranked Playlists however, so I'df argue against that.
I think people who play on PC should just stop using controllers for shooters. It's stupid.
Gravenberg wrote:
Zombie3153 wrote:
if you want to handicap yourself that's your prerogative, but screwing up the health of matchmaking by putting you into another pool is an absurdly terrible idea

/thread
You can blame them/us for handicapping ourselves & tell us to get good, but I just don't think that's a great mindset for a franchise that's REALLY in need of a big win right now
I'm not sure how suggesting you deal with your choice of input is a "bad mindset," but you'll notice I didn't say "get good" anywhere in my post. I don't care how you want to play. I do care about the ill-considered petitioning of 343 to further dilute matchmaking pools. MCC on xbone had over a dozen playlists last time I checked... divide that by another factor of 4 or 5 for regional considerations/ping matching and you already have some pretty small pools of players. Dividing that by another factor of 2 for input method is an awful idea.

My understanding is there's already some form of skill-based matchmaking going on under the hood. Skill-based matchmaking becomes worse and worse as the player pool becomes smaller and smaller. It also removes the need to do what you're asking. Who cares if you're getting matched against kbm or controller players if they're playing at a comparable level?

A great way to ensure that Halo *doesn't* get a "big win" is to decimate the quality of the matchmaker and inflate queue times by needlessly diluting the player pool
Gravenberg wrote:
KingBidois wrote:
Why do you seem to think that KB&M = non-casual? Some of the sweatiest comp-only Destiny 2 PVP players I know are controller users on PC. On the flip, I am casual AF and only use KB&M in shooters since swapping from XBox to PC.

I dont want to see a 'controllers only' playlist. More fragmentation in an already pretty wide-spread game isnt something Id encourage.
I understand you & I'm kinda walking back this concept in my head bc it definitely seems like it won't make sense. Some games have implemented control type bias algorithms to try & match up players with similar control schemes, so I'll just hope that the guys at 343 are able to at least consider that. If crossplay is eventually added, they will have to but it's unlikely until then.

I believe you but for me, I can only game casually in a comfortable way with a controller, preferably from the couch. I basically want the benefits of PC gaming but to also have a console-like experience on my living room TV. I play about 50/50 between controller & M&KB and I only use mouse+kb when I'm playing competitively on a weekend or if it's a game like CS:GO or R6 Siege.
I have a corsair lapboard & a custom wristrest add-on for playing with m+kb from the couch, but it just doesn't make sense to me xD I just cant be as relaxed when I'm sitting upright at my desk!
But this must make me seem like a complete whiner though so I can see that haha. I guess I'm just hoping for the ability to play Halo PC Social Slayer with a controller & on my HTPC and to NOT get constantly shredded by PC gamers walking all over me. PC casual gaming =/= Console/Controller casual gaming in my experience & opinion.
I'll just get gud if that's what I gotta do.

omarlotrc wrote:
The main issue with your proposal is that PC features would still be inaccessible to console players. I don't see this working unless FOV and advanced sensitivity options make their way over to Xbox.
Yeah, that's the only drawback, would be GREAT if it ended up being a bargaining tool for getting adjustable FOV on console, but that's a long shot lol.

I agree that crossplay between Xbox & PC will come with graphical issues, but that's why i'd argue that it's acceptable for social playlists. It's probably a bad idea for crossplay to be possibel in PC Ranked Playlists however, so I'df argue against that.
A cross-platform toggle for Social Matchmaking seems like the most reasonable approach to be honest.
"Some people might be turned off from playing with mouse and keyboard so let's fracture the community and screw the matchmaking"

Yeah... that seems like a healthy alternative.
If you want to use a controller play it on the xbox. Don't ruin Halo for everyone else because you want your precious controller.
PC as a whole is a far more competitive scene. People who want to play casually will just have to hope that the MMR system works to their liking.
I’m sure people will still be able to enjoy the game casually but realistically, people have to acknowledge that if they want to play on PC it’s going to be a much more competitive environment
Damn. People are already worried about good players before the game comes out. If big team battle gets too sweaty, why not just boot up a private match? I think worrying about players getting good is a bad practice and will end up having games be developed the way fortnite is. Rather than people wanting to be good, cry for the devs to nerf good players.