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Input Based Matchmaking CrossPlatform, Not Good

OP MagnusFarseeR

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Having the option to switch to only look for people playing mouse/keyboard or controller based on which input you are using will divide the population too much and make matchmaking times much longer. As you probably know, matchmaking times are significantly longer on PC, likely due to less people playing online.

If PC players had the option to play controller with console players it would significantly decrease the population for mouse/keyboard. I think the vast majority of PC players prefer playing with mouse and keyboard so I think only console players should have the option to have input based matchmaking, not PC players.

With Halo having keyboard and mouse support for console, it will increase the population who will play with PC players.
The question I'd ask is how many players would come back to the game with input based matchmaking added, a huge amount of people left due to controller aimbot/aim assist/ lazy aim whatever people call it now (I believe Summit had a big impact on that). I guess we'll see once it's there. I just want the best for the game and if 343 already decided on adding input based matchmaking, I only hope that the MASSES of pc players who complained about controllers aimbot will actually come back to the game and make up for the split matchmaking.
l FL4ME l wrote:
The question I'd ask is how many players would come back to the game with input based matchmaking added, a huge amount of people left due to controller aimbot/aim assist/ lazy aim whatever people call it now (I believe Summit had a big impact on that). I guess we'll see once it's there. I just want the best for the game and if 343 already decided on adding input based matchmaking, I only hope that the MASSES of pc players who complained about controllers aimbot will actually come back to the game and make up for the split matchmaking.
I would imagine that all the competitive playlists will make a comeback when IBM gets implemented. I think 343 should also have to make IBM a huge announcement, so others will know about it.
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
Having the option to switch to only look for people playing mouse/keyboard or controller based on which input you are using will divide the population too much and make matchmaking times much longer.
You know what else will increase Queue times? Everyone with a MKB quitting MP because they are not interested in being kill dolls. Oh wait, that's already happened. At this point the only way there even *is* a PC population long term is input MM. While perhaps XBox players *only* had Halo, so if they didn't like the way it played, they really didn't have any other scratch for the FPS itch, but PC's are not so limited or hamstringed: we have dozens of other competitive FPS games out there with massive populations and no white listed hacks. Basically PC gamers don't *need* Halo, and it seems, Halo doesn't want PC gamers. We'll play the campaigns, but that's about it.
If PC players had the option to play controller with console players it would significantly decrease the population for mouse/keyboard. I think the vast majority of PC players prefer playing with mouse and keyboard so I think only console players should have the option to have input based matchmaking, not PC players.

With Halo having keyboard and mouse support for console, it will increase the population who will play with PC players.
What are you trying to argue here? Are you arguing PC shouldn't get a choice because of 'population' and just accept playing with controllers? You then seem to contradict that point by saying console users will play with PC using the future MnK support, so why shouldn't PC players get the choice of IBMM?

This just smells like a controller user wanting to keep their advantage.
I can only speak for myself, but I am not touching the MCC until they add input-based MM. I got tired of playing against the auto-aim in a PC game.
Yea honestly just keep it the way it is. Let people play together and just leave it that M&K is a higher skill cap
l FL4ME l wrote:
The question I'd ask is how many players would come back to the game with input based matchmaking added, a huge amount of people left due to controller aimbot/aim assist/ lazy aim whatever people call it now (I believe Summit had a big impact on that). I guess we'll see once it's there. I just want the best for the game and if 343 already decided on adding input based matchmaking, I only hope that the MASSES of pc players who complained about controllers aimbot will actually come back to the game and make up for the split matchmaking.
Controllers only have aim assist because it is much harder to kill people without it using a controller. Try killing your team mate in Halo 5 to see how hard it is. I think a PC player with a KDR of at least 1.1 or more is gonna be significantly better than a controller player who has a KDR of 1.3 or more. Even with the aim assist, mouse/keyboard is still more precise.
l FL4ME l wrote:
The question I'd ask is how many players would come back to the game with input based matchmaking added, a huge amount of people left due to controller aimbot/aim assist/ lazy aim whatever people call it now (I believe Summit had a big impact on that). I guess we'll see once it's there. I just want the best for the game and if 343 already decided on adding input based matchmaking, I only hope that the MASSES of pc players who complained about controllers aimbot will actually come back to the game and make up for the split matchmaking.
Controllers only have aim assist because it is much harder to kill people without it using a controller. Try killing your team mate in Halo 5 to see how hard it is. I think a PC player with a KDR of at least 1.1 or more is gonna be significantly better than a controller player who has a KDR of 1.3 or more. Even with the aim assist, mouse/keyboard is still more precise.
Nope completely wrong.

Keyboard and mouse being more precise is a completely useless point when it's already been proven aim assist is relatively the exact same thing as hacking.
l FL4ME l wrote:
The question I'd ask is how many players would come back to the game with input based matchmaking added, a huge amount of people left due to controller aimbot/aim assist/ lazy aim whatever people call it now (I believe Summit had a big impact on that). I guess we'll see once it's there. I just want the best for the game and if 343 already decided on adding input based matchmaking, I only hope that the MASSES of pc players who complained about controllers aimbot will actually come back to the game and make up for the split matchmaking.
Controllers only have aim assist because it is much harder to kill people without it using a controller. Try killing your team mate in Halo 5 to see how hard it is. I think a PC player with a KDR of at least 1.1 or more is gonna be significantly better than a controller player who has a KDR of 1.3 or more. Even with the aim assist, mouse/keyboard is still more precise.
I respectfully disagree. Over the past few weeks, I've compared various friends and online friends' of mine's statistics using https://tracker.gg/halo-mcc/
It almost always shows that my friends playing with controllers have a higher headshot accuracy rate (usually between 40-60%), while the M&KB players usually have between 10-30% headshot accuracy rate.

One particular friend and I have been playing Halo Reach using M&KB since mid-December 2019, and we barely have a 20% headshot accuracy rate, while our controller friends who started playing this summer easily have 40-45% headshot accuracy.

Out of my own curiosity, I dug up my 10+ year old Xbox 360 USB controller and tried playing a few games with it. Even though I'm a terrible controller player, I still could easily notice how often the game would have the crosshair follow a moving enemy's head, and all I would have to do is spam the trigger button to land some headshots. I noticed how the game would essentially alert me if the crosshair detected an enemy further away that I hadn't even visually noticed yet, because the crosshair would suddenly be dragged in their direction. I noticed how the game would keep the crosshair stuck to an enemy's head even in the middle of explosions and smoke, where I couldn't even see where the enemy was.

Overall, even though I have never played Halo with a controller until a couple weeks ago, I could easily tell how the experience was different, and why it's much easier for controller players to land 5 shots in a row (DMR in Reach) by spamming the trigger button (and most of the time, they will land even if the enemy is strafing), whereas M&KB players have to actively track their targets over the course of 5 shots, which is much more difficult to do especially when the enemy is strafing. As a M&KB player, I could tell how when I was under stress and pressure, I would naturally not aim as well, and miss more crucial shots. However, when using the controller, I can confidently fire upon enemies knowing that the game is keeping the crosshair on their heads for me, no matter how much stress I may be feeling. Naturally, gametypes that rely on "quick twitch" or "wrist flick" reactions are generally in my favor (SWAT, Snipers, and Fiesta, since rockets and fuel rod are the main winning weapons), but I frequently suffer in games that involve tracking targets over multiple shots (essentially any game involving DMR starts). This is generally why input based matchmaking is needed. Mouse and keyboard players have generally stopped asking that 343 adjust or turn down the aim assist for controller players- we do not want your experience to be changed from the legacy feel. We just respectfully ask that we have the opportunity to opt for playing against opponents who have the same playing experience and face the same challenges that we do (not being able to see through explosions/smoke, actively having to track opponents, etc.).

I would kindly ask any controller players who feel things are fine as they are now, to try playing with a mouse and keyboard for a week or two against controller players, and report back on how well they fared. To your last point, if mouse/keyboard is still more precise compared to aim assisted controller players, then why do so many competitive players prefer controllers over mouse/keyboard?
Having the option to switch to only look for people playing mouse/keyboard or controller based on which input you are using will divide the population too much and make matchmaking times much longer. As you probably know, matchmaking times are significantly longer on PC, likely due to less people playing online.

If PC players had the option to play controller with console players it would significantly decrease the population for mouse/keyboard. I think the vast majority of PC players prefer playing with mouse and keyboard so I think only console players should have the option to have input based matchmaking, not PC players.

With Halo having keyboard and mouse support for console, it will increase the population who will play with PC players.
I see that someone won't be able to smack on M&K players anymore...

IBMM WILL change the games yes, but for the BETTER.. You want controllers only, enable controllers only.. you want M&K only? enable M&K only.. you want both? you guessed it, enable both.. stop crying over something that's been asked for since the beginning. you as a single will not change the fate of MCC by saying how "BAD" this decision is.
Having the option to switch to only look for people playing mouse/keyboard or controller based on which input you are using will divide the population too much and make matchmaking times much longer. As you probably know, matchmaking times are significantly longer on PC, likely due to less people playing online.

If PC players had the option to play controller with console players it would significantly decrease the population for mouse/keyboard. I think the vast majority of PC players prefer playing with mouse and keyboard so I think only console players should have the option to have input based matchmaking, not PC players.

With Halo having keyboard and mouse support for console, it will increase the population who will play with PC players.
That makes no sense. a big reason why id argue PC players need it more would be simply because with mouse and keyboard you have ZERO aim assist, controller players do. Thats all I should have to say. mouse and keyboard players want a leveled playing ground and thats how you do it.
MSilencer wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Over the past few weeks, I've compared various friends and online friends' of mine's statistics using https://tracker.gg/halo-mcc/
It almost always shows that my friends playing with controllers have a higher headshot accuracy rate (usually between 40-60%), while the M&KB players usually have between 10-30% headshot accuracy rate.

This actually raises an interesting data point: Most PC gamers of average to middling skill will net a 20% to 25% accuracy rate (overall, not to any specific body part) in the vast majority of FPS's (the classic 30% hole), while highly skilled twitch shooters may net closer to 35% to 45%, with the world's best in the 55% and up range. This all being with MKB. I wonder what the similar stats are for Console/Controller gamers. Like for example, say a Call of Duty game, looking in MW3's stats on PC right now for all time, the middle 50% of people have an average Accuracy rate of ~14.5% overall, while the top 25% have an accuracy rating of ~18% and up. I wonder what the same global stats for MW3 on XBox is. Or of any comparable FPS released as a multiplat+PC. I suspect their accuracy rate is noticeably higher.
if it reduces queue times, then people will turn it off.

Saying IBMM is bad because it will reduce queue times is like saying playlist selection is bad becuse it will reduce queue times.

If no one can find a game, they'll just increase their scope until they can.
So if controllers really do have an advantage due to aim assist then it will be input based matchmaking for both, so PC and Console players can use whatever input they want and the population will be divided based on which input they are using.

They should add an experimental playlist that is Controllers vs Mouse/Keyboard players that spans all games, 8vs8 BTB modes on almost every map including maps that don't have any vehicles.
I honestly won't be surprised if people still complain about controller aim assist even after the input matchmaking system is implemented. I wouldn't be surprised if they had it set up and still believe they're constantly playing controller players only lol.

Anywho, we'll see I guess.. Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell...
So if controllers really do have an advantage due to aim assist then it will be input based matchmaking for both, so PC and Console players can use whatever input they want and the population will be divided based on which input they are using.

They should add an experimental playlist that is Controllers vs Mouse/Keyboard players that spans all games, 8vs8 BTB modes on almost every map including maps that don't have any vehicles.
You were talking nonsense originally, and you're talking nonsense even now. Input based matchmaking makes crossplay viable, massively increasing the pool of players and reducing queue times.

KBM players have already quit because they want a fair experience. This feature will attract players back. They have the option of disabling the feature if they want the fastest queue times.

You are basically the only player who thinks that giving players something they want, the lack of which has caused a lot of players to leave, is a bad thing.

And if they want to sit in a queue for ages because they want a fair experience, how does that impact you? Unless you just want to destroy people using an unfair playing field... which is really what this reads.
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
You call console players peasants like if you were superior to them lmao
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
You call console players peasants like if you were superior to them lmao
I hate that nonsense with console peasants and pc master race lol. This coming from someone who's been active in shooters since I played Wolfenstein 3d at school.
Don't ask me how someone got Wolfenstein 3d on a school PC and they the entire time I attended that school though. Now-a-days you know that type of game would be banned on sight, even for a game and dated as wolfenstein 3d lol.
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