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Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

Input Based Matchmaking CrossPlatform, Not Good

OP MagnusFarseeR

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samissle wrote:
All my friends stopped playing because they were getting stomped by controller players, and didn't feel like they were playing on a fair playing field. It's a straight up no-go unless we are doing campaign.
Ridiculous reason and excuse to quit. You were getting stomped by good players, who you were getting paired with because the matchmaking is broken.

Most good players now play with a controller because that's how they played Halo originally. Y'all are sitting in an echo chamber complaining about controllers as if it's the only factor in your losses in matchmaking. It's not like controller gives you an immense advantage and turns you into a god compared to MKB players.
KnightFJS wrote:
RMC1138 wrote:
The extremely minimal aim assist
The lies people tell themselves oh my

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbWn2B3VGuU&t=13s
Reach aim assist is terrible and should be changed, I agree. But I was under the impression that we were talking about actually good multiplayer, like Halo 2 and 3? The aim assist there is minimal and only serves as a way to balance MKB and controller.
Yeah now that hit-reg is improved drastically, this feature makes less sense. Queues are ridiculous
samissle wrote:
All my friends stopped playing because they were getting stomped by controller players, and didn't feel like they were playing on a fair playing field. It's a straight up no-go unless we are doing campaign.
Ridiculous reason and excuse to quit. You were getting stomped by good players, who you were getting paired with because the matchmaking is broken.

Most good players now play with a controller because that's how they played Halo originally. Y'all are sitting in an echo chamber complaining about controllers as if it's the only factor in your losses in matchmaking. It's not like controller gives you an immense advantage and turns you into a god compared to MKB players.
Yes, it does give you an immense advantage. That's why no good KBM player/streamer takes this game seriously. The input delay and terrible mouse input only adds to the advantage of the controller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1wgBovU4c
Quite happy about this. Might actually reinstall halo reach when this comes out and play some more invasion without fighting a soft aimbot. I'm sure the controller players who constantly talk about how keyboard and mouse has all these advantages over their controller are also thrilled since they have the option of not playing with overpowered keyboard and mouse players too.
Currently I play co-op and Firefight. This will bring me back to multiplayer in general, so I'm happy this is coming.
tbh.. Why do I always hear about controller/console players arguing that input-based MM interferes with the game's population while forgetting that the lack of this -Yoink- was MAINLY the reason? This should've been already included because as they've advertised,, "Built for PC" .. It's gotten old to be told that if we want to have a fun, long-lasting experience, to either A: switch to controllers "as it was meant to be played" or B: "get good and lead shots : )". I'm fine with waiting hours in order to get a game back (and hopefully the rest of the community comes back to fix that problem), but if this doesn't come in soon enough then crossplay won't do jack -Yoink- for the game when it's all controller/console players. To top it all off, this is why nobody's touching ranked playlists like that.
Having the option to switch to only look for people playing mouse/keyboard or controller based on which input you are using will divide the population too much and make matchmaking times much longer. As you probably know, matchmaking times are significantly longer on PC, likely due to less people playing online.

If PC players had the option to play controller with console players it would significantly decrease the population for mouse/keyboard. I think the vast majority of PC players prefer playing with mouse and keyboard so I think only console players should have the option to have input based matchmaking, not PC players.

With Halo having keyboard and mouse support for console, it will increase the population who will play with PC players.
This is a simple problem 343 could easily fix but mouse/KB elitism and some controller users crying that they cant aim without aim assist scares 343 away from what they should be doing.

The common sense and fair thing to do is remove input based matchmaking and mix controller and mouse/KB users together in the same pool. Then REMOVE Aim Assist entirely from Multiplayer but give a toggle ON/OFF for Single player for people with disabilities.

I play with a controller on PC with games like BF4 and the older CoD's like Black ops 1 that do have native controller support but do not have any Aim Assistance or any way to turn it on. On these games i play with nearly maxed sensitivity, aiming and playing competitively with other PC players that use Mouse/KB just fine.

Developers are scared to change the status quo, back in the day 20 years ago yes using a N64 controller in an FPS game was very difficult without aim assistance but this is the year 2020 now and it is very simple to aim accurately and quickly with a modern controller.

The game should have crossplatform play, REMOVE input based matchmaking and REMOVE Aim Assist from MP. That is the fair and right thing to do.
If you want truly fair in cross platform, go back to 72 fov and limit yourself to 60fps, pc and console will never be equal or fair and the input debate will rage on forever
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
Halo was designed for controllers. FYI. I will continue to use the tools it was designed to be used with. If I want a M K/B FPS I'll play CS:GO.
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
Halo was designed for controllers. FYI. I will continue to use the tools it was designed to be used with. If I want a M K/B FPS I'll play CS:GO.
Halo was designed for the Xbox. It shouldn't be on PC at all actually. Guess you're not a true fan like me. Mods please delete this forum. Thank you and God Bless. <3
IBMM will be fine if it makes people less worried about if their enemy has an unfair advantage. People whining and over-exaggerating the issue has done enough harm and this will soothe the pain. At least now other issues that are more severe will have more attention. The User Interface in MCC for Custom Games is atrocious!

As a KB&M player I do pretty well against just about anyone. Controller players have an advantage, sure, but they also have to play around their disadvantages. With a mouse I can look anywhere with no issue while controller players have something interfering with their inputs and have less precision of aiming in exchange for a greater precision of movement. The aim assist does help with target tracking, but even on console some controller players are better than other controller players. What you should be looking for is how controller players throw off the aim of other controller players during a match.

I'm disappointed about input based matchmaking because I enjoy butting heads with players who know exactly how to wipe the floor with people. Those players mostly use controllers because Halo was a controller-only game up until this year. Those players could nail anyone with frag grenades without even looking directly at them. I'm glad I have the option to turn off IBMM because I will be leaving it off.
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
I'm a controller player. I'm in high 20's in Hardcore H3, but haven't played in a few months because I legitimately want to play with kbm but couldn't get past 22 Solo Q in Hardcore and had to pick up controller. Grinded to 27 a week after that and then quit altogether because I am so tired of playing controller on a PC title.

With that being said, I absolutely love the way you described the "controller shuffle". Strafing in H3 is a difficult thing to learn on controller, but ultimately, you're not wrong: Strafing essentially involves moving the stick left to right and allowing aim assist to do the heavy lifting in terms of actually tracking your opponent. I'm not trying to knock H3, because it does take skill to strafe (more than most of the games in the series) but it also comes down to aim assist doing 80% of the tracking for you.

One of the coolest things that I noticed when I got a lobby of 8 kbm players together is that strafe battles changed a lot, and felt more like Quake than the typical (left-right-left-right-jump-ghandi hop) strafe I've been doing for 10 years. Strafing was a lot more varied, with longer strafes thrown in, and jumps/ghandi hopping worked so much better when you had to track the target 100% yourself. The depth we saw with just a night of matches with all kbm players was so cool, and I would love to see that sort of thing flourish with input-based matchmaking.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate that point you made because most controller players don't really get how much more depth the game acquires in kbm lobbies. It legitimately feels like a true Arena shooter at times when on kbm. Flicking with sniper (like the Quake Railgun), tracking with the br (like the Quake Lightning Gun), lining up quick nades mid-battle and then immediately firing away in a 1v1 duel. It all feels so good and fresh in H3, and it's a shame you can't experience any of it in matchmaking because of the controller domination past rank 20.
raed928 wrote:
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
With that being said, I absolutely love the way you described the "controller shuffle". Strafing in H3 is a difficult thing to learn on controller, but ultimately, you're not wrong: Strafing essentially involves moving the stick left to right and allowing aim assist to do the heavy lifting in terms of actually tracking your opponent. I'm not trying to knock H3, because it does take skill to strafe (more than most of the games in the series) but it also comes down to aim assist doing 80% of the tracking for you.

Look idk maybe my opinion is skewed, ive been playing halo for a big chunk of my life.

But strafing on controller is super super easy. You literally move left and right. The controller literally AIMS FOR YOU.
There really isnt any skill cap in moving left and right.... The only form of skillcap involved is when you start strafing unpredictably, landing you kills when the enemy had a 2 BR burst lead on you.
I cant really picture a world where strafing is the difficult part of halo. Especially on controller. Literally move stick..... just move the analog stick..
isnt this only for ranked though? meaning it will make queue times faster on social? which is what the majority of us play?
raed928 wrote:
AppuserSad wrote:
I am really, really trying to enjoy the game despite the lack of IBMM.

After about 500 hours of Halo on PC, and 8 years of using a mouse exclusively for gaming (10 years on Xbox controller before that), I still notice the controller auto aim, especially against opponents who care/try/are-good/etc.

I disagree that IBMM cons will outweight the pros.

  1. I don't want to play games with human beings who play first-person-shooters on the Controller. Period. I want to play with opponents/allies who also play on 120hz monitors and use mouse and keyboard. I do not want to be part of or adjacent to the console or controller community. I do not want to play FPS games with console gamers -- it is a different community with a different mentality and type of gamer.
  2. The only reason I call out in game and try hard is because I respect the fairness of the Hardcore settings (I try hard in Rumble but merely tolerate the trash settings). I want to outplay people and be outplayed by people in order to drive me to improve and excel. That experience is broken without IBMM. This is especially true with the tenacious controller users who use the unscoped BR and do the "controller shuffle" as I call it where they simply strafe and allow the controller to take over.
  3. Halo has always had a competitive scene but PC gamers are unable to experience their own version of that because Console Peasants can just embarrass us and tell us to get good on our own platform. Even if we are 20 year halo veterans like me who have played at a very skill level across multiple platforms, multiple Halo titles (2, 3, reach) frame rates, FOV, controller settings, mouse settings. Just look at the Summit 1g situation. You CAN feel it when you play against it.
I don't want to play competitive games with the controller community. If the population is too low then I will disable the filter and join the console gamers for some rumble pit where the BR is less important.When I play Hardcore Halo 3 or Halo 2, I want the filter on.
With that being said, I absolutely love the way you described the "controller shuffle". Strafing in H3 is a difficult thing to learn on controller, but ultimately, you're not wrong: Strafing essentially involves moving the stick left to right and allowing aim assist to do the heavy lifting in terms of actually tracking your opponent. I'm not trying to knock H3, because it does take skill to strafe (more than most of the games in the series) but it also comes down to aim assist doing 80% of the tracking for you.

Look idk maybe my opinion is skewed, ive been playing halo for a big chunk of my life.

But strafing on controller is super super easy. You literally move left and right. The controller literally AIMS FOR YOU.
There really isnt any skill cap in moving left and right.... The only form of skillcap involved is when you start strafing unpredictably, landing you kills when the enemy had a 2 BR burst lead on you.
I cant really picture a world where strafing is the difficult part of halo. Especially on controller. Literally move stick..... just move the analog stick..
Yeah that's what I'm saying. But when you play against other kbm players, strafing almost feels like pistol battles in counterstrike. You can absolutely outplay other players using a good strafe when there's no aim assist. When I was playing with my friends in customs, we were able to turn battles around constantly while being down a shot or two. I genuinely think kbm lobbies turn strafing into a legitimately important facet of combat. On controller, it's basically right-left-right and allowing the aim assist to turn for you basically.
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