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Keyboard and mouse feedback thread(Unofficial)

OP IMCN112

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Hi, Keyboard and Mouse(KBM) users. This is a unofficial KBM feedback thread, you can post you feeling, advice about KBM gaming experience. But before start, here are something you must know:
  • VFR(higher frame rate) will cause higher input lag.
  • KBM & controller share the same bullet magnetic level & behavior (like in H1, you have to move your crosshair above enemy head to make sure you can get headshot)*.
P.S. After some tests with Deaf Snake5595, we believe H2C KBM BM get a little bit nerfed(or didn't working functional), but it's may a bug or something.

How to post your feedback?

Here is the example.

Things makes me hard to aim:
  • GAME: Post something, like bloom, crosshair design etc.
My advice/hope feature:
  • Post something, like more accuracy sensitive change, advanced zoom sensitive option.
Important notes:
  • This thread is aim to tell developers why we think MCC KBM feels bad, please don't talk about " CONTROLLER IS FXXKING AIMBOT" stuffs.
  • Just post everything makes you unhappy about KBM using experience, hope we can make MCC have a solid KBM support!
Probably everyone forgot about this problem but the controls for the tank on halo reach are still extremely garbage. I'm confident 343 completely forgot about the tank controls in reach and never bothered to even read feedback on it considering it was brought up before on this forum.
Things makes me hard to aim:
  • Halo Reach: Bloom
  • Halo 1: bad bullet magnetic design.
  • Halo 2A(MP): mouse aim feels like mouse smoothing on
  • MCC:
  1. most semi-auto weapons crosshair are too big for KBM.
  2. some games bullet magnetic need to rebuild for KBM.
  3. Bad screen tearing & shattering make KBM user hard to find enemy.
  4. movement acceleration feels too slow.
My advice/hope feature:
  • more accuracy sensitive change(like 3.1415926)
  • advanced zoom sensitive option for 2x/3x/5x/10x scope.
  • raw input option.
  • if MCC team can't make mouse input feels good like those hardcore PC game (like CS/Quake etc.), add auto-aim feature for KBM may will help PC players.
KnightFJS wrote:
Probably everyone forgot that this was a problem but the controls for a tank on halo reach are still extremely terrible to use. I'm confident 343 completely forgot about the tank controls in reach and never bothered to even read feedback on it considering it was brought up before on this forum.
We need to talk more loudly about those issue! :)
Halo Reach and Halo CE feel... floaty. Like I'm aiming underwater. Like my sensitivity changes by 2% at random times.
Its really hard to pin down what the exact issue is, it just doesn't feel crisp. Halo 2 feels tight, responsive and crisp, and I can regularly hit my shots, but CE & Reach both feel off and I struggle top be consistently accurate.
I wish I could give a better description of what it is I mean but its really hard to put into words. Does anyone else feel this way?
I also hope that mouse feedback can be a little more sensitive, attack the enemy always have a finger bounced up before triggering the effect of the lag.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Because we are not currently equipped to provide moderation in other languages, we must ask that all messages be posted in English. Feel free to use an online language translation service, and then create a new thread with the translated text. Sorry for the inconvenience.
设置里按Q E会自动跳到下一个设置界面有点痛苦,天蝎号操作也不好
This post has been edited by a moderator. Because we are not currently equipped to provide moderation in other languages, we must ask that all messages be posted in English. Feel free to use an online language translation service, and then create a new thread with the translated text. Sorry for the inconvenience.
而且互动需要按住使用键也挺麻烦的
Small crosshair sizes. The default crosshairs are way too big for long-range precision aiming (looking at you CE pistol crosshair). The thing's a big circle. I would prefer the option to adjust crosshair size. KBM players benefit a lot from crosshairs as they don't have AA to inform them a "target" is "shootable". They have to figure it out for themselves, this coupled with the horribly big crosshairs creates annoyance as there are time when you feel your crosshair is on someone's head, but the bullet misses them by millimetres . I personally prefer the crosshair customization of CSGO where you can edit everything down the very last detail but if that's impossible, I wish for nothing but smaller crosshair sizes. I don't care about controller AA or BM, just give me my customizable crosshair sizes and I will be a happy person.

The sniper crosshair is good, the H2 beam rifle crosshair is good, everything else needs work. I would also like the ability to remove the functionality of the crosshair "expanding" while rapid firing in Halo Reach. The reach magnum is inaccurate while rapid firing as it is, the expanding crosshair doesn't make it any better to look at. I know it is supposed to represent bloom but I can compensate for the bloom without looking at that ugly circle of a crosshair expanding and contracting all the time. If anything, the time it takes for the crosshair to "reset" is time wasted which could have been used to put one more bullet into the enemy. The static crosshair gives you a general idea of where your bullets go. I suppose the dynamic crosshair doesn't bother controller users that much since the AA tells them they are "aiming" at the target ergo the target can be shot.

TLDR;
a) Customizable crosshair sizes
b) Static crosshairs (option to toggle it on or off)
c) A small "dot" at the center of every existing crosshair (if customizable crosshair size is too much to ask for)
d) Customizable crosshair colors

Also, I don't think I have experienced any bullet magnetism on the mouse. There is none. Would you like to be my test subject and find out the truth?

EDIT- OP and I hopped onto a custom game to test out the KBM BM. There is BM with Keyboard and Mouse but it is very clunky and unreliable. Halo CE has the worst and most unreliable BM whereas Halo 2A has the best (relatively speaking) BM. Controller BM is obviously better than KBM BM but the biggest problem with the KBM is the sheer unreliability. There are cases when your reticule is red and on the target and the bullet won't hit. This was especially noticeable in HCE. HCE lacks any "sideways" BM to speak of.
Ranking the existing bullet magnetism in games (in terms of reliability) in decreasing order.
H2A>HR>H2C>HCE
Can i only press action instead of holding it?Holding is very painful.
Halo CE and H2C have crosshairs that are (inconsistently) a few pixels off-center (at 1920x1080 at least). My coop partner is experiencing the same thing.

H2A multiplayer and Reach's crosshairs seem modern and perfectly centered.

Take a screenshot in game and see for yourself!
Small crosshair sizes. The default crosshairs are way too big for long-range precision aiming (looking at you CE pistol crosshair). The thing's a big circle. I would prefer the option to adjust crosshair size. KBM players benefit a lot from crosshairs as they don't have AA to inform them a "target" is "shootable". They have to figure it out for themselves, this coupled with the horribly big crosshairs creates annoyance as there are time when you feel your crosshair is on someone's head, but the bullet misses them by millimetres . I personally prefer the crosshair customization of CSGO where you can edit everything down the very last detail but if that's impossible, I wish for nothing but smaller crosshair sizes. I don't care about controller AA or BM, just give me my customizable crosshair sizes and I will be a happy person.

The sniper crosshair is good, the H2 beam rifle crosshair is good, everything else needs work. I would also like the ability to remove the functionality of the crosshair "expanding" while rapid firing in Halo Reach. The reach magnum is inaccurate while rapid firing as it is, the expanding crosshair doesn't make it any better to look at. I know it is supposed to represent bloom but I can compensate for the bloom without looking at that ugly circle of a crosshair expanding and contracting all the time. If anything, the time it takes for the crosshair to "reset" is time wasted which could have been used to put one more bullet into the enemy. The static crosshair gives you a general idea of where your bullets go. I suppose the dynamic crosshair doesn't bother controller users that much since the AA tells them they are "aiming" at the target ergo the target can be shot.

TLDR;
a) Customizable crosshair sizes
b) Static crosshairs (option to toggle it on or off)
c) A small "dot" at the center of every existing crosshair (if customizable crosshair size is too much to ask for)
d) Customizable crosshair colors

Also, I don't think I have experienced any bullet magnetism on the mouse. There is none. Would you like to be my test subject and find out the truth?
It's hard to describe, but i'm sure CE( that stupid BM design, LOL) & H2A KBM has bullet magnetic. And if you want a test subject, just add my XGT(IMCN112), that's fine.
P.S. I living in Asian, maybe we got a different timezone.
KBM definitely feels nice for campaign, very natural. CE and 2 were already built for KBM and Reach feels alright. But I feel like I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer with KBM. If KBM and controllers are the same, it doesn't feel like it at all.
IMCN112 wrote:
It's hard to describe, but i'm sure CE( that stupid BM design, LOL) & H2A KBM has bullet magnetic. And if you want a test subject, just add my XGT(IMCN112), that's fine.
P.S. I living in Asian, maybe we got a different timezone.
fellow asian here mate, I will add you at once.
DmPronin wrote:
KBM definitely feels nice for campaign, very natural. CE and 2 were already built for KBM and Reach feels alright. But I feel like I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer with KBM. If KBM and controllers are the same, it doesn't feel like it at all.
Most controller player are using lower sensitive(1-5) to make sure they won't missing shots in combat. For KBM, a lower DPI(400-600) + a little bit higher sensitive(I'm using 4) maybe is the best. Back to bullet magnetic, I'm sure KBM & controller share the same level & behavior BM, but KBM is not controller, same BM may let KBM user get disadvantage. Example, your crosshair is on the enemy head, you may think"I can get headshot right?", but BM will think"no, you are not shotting head, It's enemy chest". That's why I don't think same BM level & behavior will make KBM feels better, gaming mouse is build for accuracy, if my crosshair on enemy head, it should be headshot, just it.
P.S. maybe hitbox is also a problem?
IMCN112 wrote:
DmPronin wrote:
KBM definitely feels nice for campaign, very natural. CE and 2 were already built for KBM and Reach feels alright. But I feel like I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer with KBM. If KBM and controllers are the same, it doesn't feel like it at all.
Most controller player are using lower sensitive(1-5) to make sure they won't missing shots in combat. For KBM, a lower DPI(400-600) + a little bit higher sensitive(I'm using 4) maybe is the best. Back to bullet magnetic, I'm sure KBM & controller share the same level & behavior BM, but KBM is not controller, same BM may let KBM user get disadvantage. Example, your crosshair is on the enemy head, you may think"I can get headshot right?", but BM will think"no, you are not shotting head, It's enemy chest". That's why I don't think same BM level & behavior will make KBM feels better, gaming mouse is build for accuracy, if my crosshair on enemy head, it should be headshot, just it.
P.S. maybe hitbox is also a problem?
One of the worst things I've seen is people using programs to make the game think their KB+M is a controller and then getting the aim assist values for a controller. This is some sort of sick joke that needs to be fixed. The only game that feel fair is CE (i'm not counting halo 2 since its broken right now) since that doesn't change a whole lot.
Issues about MCC:
  • Halo Reach: Bloom DMR
  • Halo 1: bullet magnetism 100%
  • Halo 2A(MP): mouse aim feels like smoothing on
  • MCC: memu system glitch
IMCN112 wrote:
DmPronin wrote:
KBM definitely feels nice for campaign, very natural. CE and 2 were already built for KBM and Reach feels alright. But I feel like I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer with KBM. If KBM and controllers are the same, it doesn't feel like it at all.
Most controller player are using lower sensitive(1-5) to make sure they won't missing shots in combat. For KBM, a lower DPI(400-600) + a little bit higher sensitive(I'm using 4) maybe is the best. Back to bullet magnetic, I'm sure KBM & controller share the same level & behavior BM, but KBM is not controller, same BM may let KBM user get disadvantage. Example, your crosshair is on the enemy head, you may think"I can get headshot right?", but BM will think"no, you are not shotting head, It's enemy chest". That's why I don't think same BM level & behavior will make KBM feels better, gaming mouse is build for accuracy, if my crosshair on enemy head, it should be headshot, just it.
P.S. maybe hitbox is also a problem?
One of the worst things I've seen is people using programs to make the game think their KB+M is a controller and then getting the aim assist values for a controller. This is some sort of sick joke that needs to be fixed. The only game that feel fair is CE (i'm not counting halo 2 since its broken right now) since that doesn't change a whole lot.
Yes, XIM stuff just like cheating.
A couple quick thoughts:

1: They should focus on tightening input lag further. I think the game SHOULD target the likes of CSGO and R6S, even if some might find it unnecessary. The bar was set almost 10 years ago, we should be going forward, not backwards.

2: Bullet Magnetism needs to be disabled for KBM, and lowered for controllers. Controllers need some aim assist to be a viable competitive option, so I understand that. But KBM if anything is negatively impacted by it, as we lose some control over our shots. This would also fix the issue that Controllers are the by-far most used input devices for competitive players.

3: Bloom is fine, as the sandbox was designed around it. Yes, I find it annoying. But even TU turns Slayer into a DRM sniping-fest, which is way more frustrating than dealing with bloom.

EDIT: Accidentally made it into another comment, but toggle binds should really be a thing by now. They were in both Halo CE and Halo 2 in their original PC releases.
Could we get Toggle Binds optionally? I don't want to hold a key down for every action. This is how Legacy Halo 2 Vista acted, and it was far better imo.
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