Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

MCC for PC Progression System

OP Skoop

I’m curious how every feels about the new seasonal system discussed in the May update. Throw those opinions out there!
As a long time fan I have mixed feelings. If the content in these seasons are new pieces of content and you don't have to pay more money to buy in to the seasons? Then fine, rewards for playing are cool. But if they're taking existing armor sets (EVA, Recon, ODST, ETC.) and locking them behind some arbitrary Fortnite style Seasonal Challenges then I'll be annoyed. I play Halo to play Halo, not try and grind just to remake my Spartan the way I want.
I was miffed at first, mostly because I figured that it means that certain armours are only going to be available at certain times and I will probably miss out on that beautiful, beautiful CQB helmet. I think that's a fair reason to be annoyed.

However I read the blog later to find that seasonal currency is transferred between seasons, and you can unlock tiers from previous seasons; so they essentially never end. While its not the credit system from Halo Reach, I'm glad I can still complete challenges to work towards items I like as opposed to some sort of loot box shenanigans or micro transaction based seasons. It doesn't sound fantastic but it is by far not the worst option in the book.
There need to be few ranked playlists that the community will know are permanent.
I'm not a fan of the ranks being reset in competitive every season because that means in the beginning of each season the higher level players will be slaughtering lower level players which will lead to very unbalanced matches.

"On the matchmaking side of things, we also want to make reaching high levels of competitive ranks a seasonal goal. Competitive playlists will be configured for each season and all players will start at rank 1 at the beginning of the season. When a season ends, competitive playlists will be reassessed, and ranks will reset along with the playlists. We are thinking about ways to honor players who achieve significant skill ranks in each season. Social playlists will rotate more frequently and will not necessarily be tied to season rollouts."
While I would prefer a reach style progression system this seasonal system doesn't seem to bad but I think I will need to see it in action to know for sure. I do have a feeling the reason we are seeing this seasonal system is to test out a progression system for infinite
I guess what bothers me most is the team's seemingly arbitrary position that the progression system needs an update.

Nobody asked for the Reach system to be changed. The Reach system was excellent, simple, rewarded both offline and online play. You knew what customizations you wanted, you knew what you could get, you aimed for it. Straightforward. Why this assumption that credits/XP needed to be split up? Again, it's an arbitrary introduction of complexity.

This arbitrary complexity forces uncontrolled playing/spending habits, chasing random rewards in hopes of a specific item rather than moderating play time based around a discrete goal. It's what frustrates me most about many modern game progression models.

This presumption that the system needs to be overhauled sounds like something the marketing team pushed. I've seen no evidence that it's based on player feedback.
I guess what bothers me most is the team's seemingly arbitrary position that the progression system needs an update.

Nobody asked for the Reach system to be changed. The Reach system was excellent, simple, rewarded both offline and online play. You knew what customizations you wanted, you knew what you could get, you aimed for it. Straightforward. Why this assumption that credits/XP needed to be split up? Again, it's an arbitrary introduction of complexity.
This arbitrary complexity forces uncontrolled playing/spending habits, chasing random rewards in hopes of a specific item rather than moderating play time based around a discrete goal. It's what frustrates me most about many modern game progression models.

This presumption that the system needs to be overhauled sounds like something the marketing team pushed. I've seen no evidence that it's based on player feedback.
Sadly I 100% believe you are right. The more details that come out about the PC Master Chief Collection the less it seems like we will be able to get the original experience these games gave us back when they originally released.

I wrote in another thread about your rank being reset every season and I was told that "it was like that in Halo 5 and it worked fine" but what these people don't realize is that it wasn't in any of the other Halo games. The dev team is adding things like seasons and a new progression system to try to get players to constantly come back to the game and its rather sad they feel the need to do so.
Exactly. They use language to the effect that they are "appealing to modern gamers". The justification is that there is a modern wave of gamers who like, want, and demand immoderate, transaction-loaded, gambling-like experiences.

No such demographic exists. The concept of such a demographic is invented out of whole cloth to provide something like an ethical justification for such a user-unfriendly progression/monetization scheme.

I just want simplicity and robustness. I want to pay once for a game and get a plain, straightfoward deal. These days you pay full price for an incomplete game, on the hopes that it will get more like what you want the more cash you spend.
I guess what bothers me most is the team's seemingly arbitrary position that the progression system needs an update.

Nobody asked for the Reach system to be changed. The Reach system was excellent, simple, rewarded both offline and online play. You knew what customizations you wanted, you knew what you could get, you aimed for it. Straightforward. Why this assumption that credits/XP needed to be split up? Again, it's an arbitrary introduction of complexity.
This arbitrary complexity forces uncontrolled playing/spending habits, chasing random rewards in hopes of a specific item rather than moderating play time based around a discrete goal. It's what frustrates me most about many modern game progression models.

This presumption that the system needs to be overhauled sounds like something the marketing team pushed. I've seen no evidence that it's based on player feedback.
Well said. There was nothing wrong with Reach's progression system, change isn't necessary and I don't think many people would welcome it.
I personally like the idea of the proposed progression system. Even back in the original Halo Reach, different armors were locked behind levels before you could even purchase them, and you still had to pay a lot of credits after you got to that level for the different pieces. I feel like people are misremembering the original progression system or looking at it through rose-colored glasses; while it was a great system, it still felt like quite the grind at times. Even though it isn't a 1:1 system to reach, I think it was modernized in a good way. You know what unlocks there are for each season and you can aim to earn the seasonal points to reach the level to unlock it or save up for future or past seasons unlocks.

The only thing that does worry me is the amount of armor available to be unlocked every season, but I still feel positive about it. I also sort of wish there were points for playing campaign or offline, but I completely understand why that isn't the reason and am fine with their decision.
I also have to admit that I don't necessarily care to have a fully similar experience to the old games because if I wanted to play the old games I would plug in my Xbox and play them. I want the old games with a more modern twist so that I get the nostalgia along with some new content.
Veto 45 wrote:
I also sort of wish there were points for playing campaign or offline, but I completely understand why that isn't the reason and am fine with their decision.
Though it does leave people like me who play offline, for the time being, unable to customize our characters, at least to the same degree as the original. Hopefully, they'll come up with something for offline players that'll allow us to customize our Reach and (depending on if and how its brought in) ODST Firefight characters without online players exploiting it for their online careers.

Beyond that, I can't really formulate an opinion regarding the progression system as it is.
Have they said whether or not this game is going to have microtransactions? The whole season thing makes me think of Fortnite and I'm worried they're going to add in "Battle Pass" purchases to try to suck 10 dollars out of every every couple of months
Have they said whether or not this game is going to have microtransactions? The whole season thing makes me think of Fortnite and I'm worried they're going to add in "Battle Pass" purchases to try to suck 10 dollars out of every every couple of months
There are no microtransactions nor do you have to purchase a "Battle Pass". They are just using the modern format of seasons because the start and end of seasons tends to be big news and draw people into or back to the game. As for why:

1. The seasons are good places for developers to release new DLC, or in the case of Halo MCC, to release the next Halo game or maybe new maps for the first several seasons.

2. Seasons are usually when new game fundamentals are changed (just think of the changes to the maps in Fortnite or to weapons), such as maybe changing playlist availability.
---Changes in maps or playlist rotation also mean that the top players of the previous playlists may not be as skilled at the current playlists and it will give newer players or players who place lower previously a chance to reach a higher point in ranking.
---Because they don't want to spread the Halo population too thin with multiple playlists, new seasons give a good time frame to switch out the playlists.

3. Having the original 1-50 rank system (or equivalent) discourages play and encourages protectionism (maintaining your current rank) for various reasons, especially among higher ranks. A season system does not, or if it does only until the ranks reset.
---The old 1-50 style also means that there is a continuous comparison of skill, which usually results in small changes per game. Ranking up could be grinding or difficult once you pass "the masses". Seasons means that the developers can pick a higher k-factor, which means that recent performances have a larger impact on your rank and you see and feel progression much quicker as opposed to people feeling like they are stuck or not progressing in the old system.
--Just as an edit to this post, the current iteration of MCC takes over 200 games to reach rank 50 if I am remembering correctly. Assuming that they keep the ranks (which I prefer) instead of moving to tiers, if they don't adjust the rate that ranks increase, then I will probably have a more negative view on the introduction of seasons.

4. The start of the season drums up a lot of interest for those who want to grind for the highest rank again and for new rewards and unlocks, or for a good entry point for new players.

Quoting from the AMA on Reddit they did at the end of March about microtransactions,
"First, we're happy to say that Halo: Reach in MCC will in fact have the same level of "mix and match" customization found in the original games (all the individual armor pieces, etc..). As to how it's earned, we are exploring a new and deeper progression system that retains the feel of the old systems and blends them with newer models for game progression (all based on in-game play, no type of monetization or anything of that nature)". Quoting from the May blog,
"Another important note – the progression system and seasons in MCC will be included for all players and earning XP and season points does not require a specific game purchase. In order to play with the appropriate unlockables, players will need to own those titles, but XP and season points can be earned in any MCC game."
I was iffy about it at first but I've grown to like it (for the most part). It still reminds me a lot of Halo Reach's progression system. You level up, you get experience, and you get credits. Plus nothing is gonna be locked forever and I can go back to previous game seasons and unlock content within it if I desire. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I like the new progression system. Feels a bit more modern. I also like the rank reset. I remember when I'd play OW people would be asking for rank resets every season since people would get boosted to their ranks and then camp it out.
I think I'm going to need to see how the progression system actually plays out ingame, but the game seems way more promising to me now that I know there won't be any micro-transactions. It feels like a weight has been lifted. Thank you Veto 45!
I'm really excited about the progression system. As others have said, though, I'm concerned about the Competitive Games rank resets.
Very glad to hear about no micro-transactions or monetization. Also the system being set up for those who just buy Reach individually - as is my plan - is nice.

I still prefer the old system, with the full catalog of cutomization available in the game - I'm bothered by the idea of having to wait multiple seasons for options to be unlocked.
Veto 45 wrote:
Have they said whether or not this game is going to have microtransactions? The whole season thing makes me think of Fortnite and I'm worried they're going to add in "Battle Pass" purchases to try to suck 10 dollars out of every every couple of months
There are no microtransactions nor do you have to purchase a "Battle Pass". They are just using the modern format of seasons because the start and end of seasons tends to be big news and draw people into or back to the game. As for why:

1. The seasons are good places for developers to release new DLC, or in the case of Halo MCC, to release the next Halo game or maybe new maps for the first several seasons.

2. Seasons are usually when new game fundamentals are changed (just think of the changes to the maps in Fortnite or to weapons), such as maybe changing playlist availability.
---Changes in maps or playlist rotation also mean that the top players of the previous playlists may not be as skilled at the current playlists and it will give newer players or players who place lower previously a chance to reach a higher point in ranking.
---Because they don't want to spread the Halo population too thin with multiple playlists, new seasons give a good time frame to switch out the playlists.

3. Having the original 1-50 rank system (or equivalent) discourages play and encourages protectionism (maintaining your current rank) for various reasons, especially among higher ranks. A season system does not, or if it does only until the ranks reset.
---The old 1-50 style also means that there is a continuous comparison of skill, which usually results in small changes per game. Ranking up could be grinding or difficult once you pass "the masses". Seasons means that the developers can pick a higher k-factor, which means that recent performances have a larger impact on your rank and you see and feel progression much quicker as opposed to people feeling like they are stuck or not progressing in the old system.
--Just as an edit to this post, the current iteration of MCC takes over 200 games to reach rank 50 if I am remembering correctly. Assuming that they keep the ranks (which I prefer) instead of moving to tiers, if they don't adjust the rate that ranks increase, then I will probably have a more negative view on the introduction of seasons.

4. The start of the season drums up a lot of interest for those who want to grind for the highest rank again and for new rewards and unlocks, or for a good entry point for new players.

Quoting from the AMA on Reddit they did at the end of March about microtransactions,
"First, we're happy to say that Halo: Reach in MCC will in fact have the same level of "mix and match" customization found in the original games (all the individual armor pieces, etc..). As to how it's earned, we are exploring a new and deeper progression system that retains the feel of the old systems and blends them with newer models for game progression (all based on in-game play, no type of monetization or anything of that nature)". Quoting from the May blog,
"Another important note – the progression system and seasons in MCC will be included for all players and earning XP and season points does not require a specific game purchase. In order to play with the appropriate unlockables, players will need to own those titles, but XP and season points can be earned in any MCC game."
I agree with everything here. I think 343i is making the right choice adding seasons. One more reason is that seasonal resets add a sense of time. You can say, "I hit a certain rank back in season 3." Otherwise the ranks feel static and will encourage camping ranks out. Either they do it this way or they add rank decay. Also, I feel that they might have to add tiers or some kind of combination of tiers and number ratings if they don't change the amount of games needed to rank up (especially in the higher tiers).