Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

Please(!!) Reduce DMR Damage to Vehicles

OP Rusttey

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WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
It really is sad that so many Halo players can't see the forest for the trees. The DMR doesn't do "too much" damage to vehicles, the vehicles take too much permanent damage from small arms fire. The problem of paper vehicles is always going to be an issue as long as the chip damage system which is exactly what happened with Halo 4 and 5.

If you want to advocate for something that will actually make the game better at least advocate for a Halo 2/3 style vehicle system.
Shoot a vehicle with a needle rifle then shoot it with a DMR. In fact, just shoot a vehicle with most weapons in the game bar power weapons or play Elite slayer, suddenly vehicles play a lot differently

Not going to deny what you're saying isn't an issue but I can't possibly see how you can say the DMR is not a problem when the closest another weapon comes to replicating the DMR's effect on vehicles is the Sniper Rifle- except everyone spawns with one
Too bad that has exactly nothing to do with the point I was making. This kind of superficial criticism is the reason we still have the garbage chip damage system 2 games later.

DMR starts have always been the standard for Reach BTB, if you don't like how it plays fine, don't play BTB.
Please tell me why this has exactly nothing to do with the point you were making and why the criticism is superficial

You seem to think everyone is just ignorant and only YOU know the real reason why vehicles are weak despite the fact any idiot can jump into a game and just chew through any vehicle they see with the DMR from any distance(but not other easily accessible weapons funnily enough)

Did you know something can have more than ONE issue?
You are still stuck on the DMR when the chip damage system is the issue underlying all of it. The fundamental difference going from 3 to Reach is the change in how vehicles function, not spawning with a precision weapon in BTB. Focusing on just the DMR does nothing but muddy the waters and ensure nothing productive ever gets done.

The point you are missing is that fixing the underlying system fixes all vehicles and weapons removing DMR starts is just trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'm going to call a spade a spade when players are making the exact same arguments their predecessors made almost a decade ago.
Some from outside the discussion here. Your issue dude is that you just started saying what you think is the actual issue, you didn't actually go in depth and explain it.
Frankly the DMR should have never gotten anti material properties in the first place.
No matter how you cut it the gun is broke as hell and I genuinely cannot fathom what the thought process was with it. It is disgustingly good at literally everything. Hell, bungie in the original vidocs commented that it was like everyone was running around with their own deathstar.
They knew and they did it anyways.
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
It really is sad that so many Halo players can't see the forest for the trees. The DMR doesn't do "too much" damage to vehicles, the vehicles take too much permanent damage from small arms fire. The problem of paper vehicles is always going to be an issue as long as the chip damage system which is exactly what happened with Halo 4 and 5.

If you want to advocate for something that will actually make the game better at least advocate for a Halo 2/3 style vehicle system.
Shoot a vehicle with a needle rifle then shoot it with a DMR. In fact, just shoot a vehicle with most weapons in the game bar power weapons or play Elite slayer, suddenly vehicles play a lot differently

Not going to deny what you're saying isn't an issue but I can't possibly see how you can say the DMR is not a problem when the closest another weapon comes to replicating the DMR's effect on vehicles is the Sniper Rifle- except everyone spawns with one
Too bad that has exactly nothing to do with the point I was making. This kind of superficial criticism is the reason we still have the garbage chip damage system 2 games later.

DMR starts have always been the standard for Reach BTB, if you don't like how it plays fine, don't play BTB.
Please tell me why this has exactly nothing to do with the point you were making and why the criticism is superficial

You seem to think everyone is just ignorant and only YOU know the real reason why vehicles are weak despite the fact any idiot can jump into a game and just chew through any vehicle they see with the DMR from any distance(but not other easily accessible weapons funnily enough)

Did you know something can have more than ONE issue?
You are still stuck on the DMR when the chip damage system is the issue underlying all of it. The fundamental difference going from 3 to Reach is the change in how vehicles function, not spawning with a precision weapon in BTB. Focusing on just the DMR does nothing but muddy the waters and ensure nothing productive ever gets done.

The point you are missing is that fixing the underlying system fixes all vehicles and weapons removing DMR starts is just trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'm going to call a spade a spade when players are making the exact same arguments their predecessors made almost a decade ago.
Where in this thread have I asked for removal of DMR starts?

No matter what health system you give vehicles, the DMR is still blatantly overtuned against them- You bring up Halo 3 but the battle rifle never chunked vehicles or had the power to flip them, but the DMR does. Keep on believing that simple discussion about reducing the damage done by DMRs to vehicles is "muddying the waters" but overhauling the entire vehicle health system isn't when it's so obviously clear what the problem is
Frankly the DMR should have never gotten anti material properties in the first place.
No matter how you cut it the gun is broke as hell and I genuinely cannot fathom what the thought process was with it. It is disgustingly good at literally everything. Hell, bungie in the original vidocs commented that it was like everyone was running around with their own deathstar.
They knew and they did it anyways.
Bungie wanted to address the criticism that the battle rifle was too powerful and too overbearing by replacing it with a stronger weapon, it's genius
HOrobOD1 wrote:
Yeah I doubt 343 will make any gameplay changes. They are porting old Halo games as is, not going in and tweaking the original source code. My guess is they are only willing to make playlist changes and bug fixes.
Sadly, I think you are right.
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
It really is sad that so many Halo players can't see the forest for the trees. The DMR doesn't do "too much" damage to vehicles, the vehicles take too much permanent damage from small arms fire. The problem of paper vehicles is always going to be an issue as long as the chip damage system which is exactly what happened with Halo 4 and 5.

If you want to advocate for something that will actually make the game better at least advocate for a Halo 2/3 style vehicle system.
Shoot a vehicle with a needle rifle then shoot it with a DMR. In fact, just shoot a vehicle with most weapons in the game bar power weapons or play Elite slayer, suddenly vehicles play a lot differently

Not going to deny what you're saying isn't an issue but I can't possibly see how you can say the DMR is not a problem when the closest another weapon comes to replicating the DMR's effect on vehicles is the Sniper Rifle- except everyone spawns with one
Too bad that has exactly nothing to do with the point I was making. This kind of superficial criticism is the reason we still have the garbage chip damage system 2 games later.

DMR starts have always been the standard for Reach BTB, if you don't like how it plays fine, don't play BTB.
Please tell me why this has exactly nothing to do with the point you were making and why the criticism is superficial

You seem to think everyone is just ignorant and only YOU know the real reason why vehicles are weak despite the fact any idiot can jump into a game and just chew through any vehicle they see with the DMR from any distance(but not other easily accessible weapons funnily enough)

Did you know something can have more than ONE issue?
You are still stuck on the DMR when the chip damage system is the issue underlying all of it. The fundamental difference going from 3 to Reach is the change in how vehicles function, not spawning with a precision weapon in BTB. Focusing on just the DMR does nothing but muddy the waters and ensure nothing productive ever gets done.

The point you are missing is that fixing the underlying system fixes all vehicles and weapons removing DMR starts is just trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'm going to call a spade a spade when players are making the exact same arguments their predecessors made almost a decade ago.
Where in this thread have I asked for removal of DMR starts?

No matter what health system you give vehicles, the DMR is still blatantly overtuned against them- You bring up Halo 3 but the battle rifle never chunked vehicles or had the power to flip them, but the DMR does. Keep on believing that simple discussion about reducing the damage done by DMRs to vehicles is "muddying the waters" but overhauling the entire vehicle health system isn't when it's so obviously clear what the problem is
Sorry, I mixed you up with all the others making near identical arguments. The Battle rifle doesn't chunk vehicles(but it did flip Warthogs) because incoming damage is absorbed by player shielding from all sources. You can drive around a smoldering wreck provided you can break line of sight to recharge your shields. What I find so distasteful about the chip damage system is that player skill cannot keep a vehicle alive when every shot from every source can were down your vehicles limited health pool. Reducing the DMR's damage just adds a bit of time to the clock, it doesn't fix the awful attrition based vehicle system.

If you honestly want to improve Reach do something that actually fixes the underlying problems not the symptoms. The DMR appears to "do too much damage" because the vehicles were made worse going from Halo 3-Reach. If we are going to patch the game anyways, which would be required to reduce the DMR's damage to vehicles, why wouldn't we just go ahead and fix the more serious issue?
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
It really is sad that so many Halo players can't see the forest for the trees. The DMR doesn't do "too much" damage to vehicles, the vehicles take too much permanent damage from small arms fire. The problem of paper vehicles is always going to be an issue as long as the chip damage system which is exactly what happened with Halo 4 and 5.

If you want to advocate for something that will actually make the game better at least advocate for a Halo 2/3 style vehicle system.
Shoot a vehicle with a needle rifle then shoot it with a DMR. In fact, just shoot a vehicle with most weapons in the game bar power weapons or play Elite slayer, suddenly vehicles play a lot differently

Not going to deny what you're saying isn't an issue but I can't possibly see how you can say the DMR is not a problem when the closest another weapon comes to replicating the DMR's effect on vehicles is the Sniper Rifle- except everyone spawns with one
Too bad that has exactly nothing to do with the point I was making. This kind of superficial criticism is the reason we still have the garbage chip damage system 2 games later.

DMR starts have always been the standard for Reach BTB, if you don't like how it plays fine, don't play BTB.
Please tell me why this has exactly nothing to do with the point you were making and why the criticism is superficial

You seem to think everyone is just ignorant and only YOU know the real reason why vehicles are weak despite the fact any idiot can jump into a game and just chew through any vehicle they see with the DMR from any distance(but not other easily accessible weapons funnily enough)

Did you know something can have more than ONE issue?
You are still stuck on the DMR when the chip damage system is the issue underlying all of it. The fundamental difference going from 3 to Reach is the change in how vehicles function, not spawning with a precision weapon in BTB. Focusing on just the DMR does nothing but muddy the waters and ensure nothing productive ever gets done.

The point you are missing is that fixing the underlying system fixes all vehicles and weapons removing DMR starts is just trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'm going to call a spade a spade when players are making the exact same arguments their predecessors made almost a decade ago.
Where in this thread have I asked for removal of DMR starts?

No matter what health system you give vehicles, the DMR is still blatantly overtuned against them- You bring up Halo 3 but the battle rifle never chunked vehicles or had the power to flip them, but the DMR does. Keep on believing that simple discussion about reducing the damage done by DMRs to vehicles is "muddying the waters" but overhauling the entire vehicle health system isn't when it's so obviously clear what the problem is
Sorry, I mixed you up with all the others making near identical arguments. The Battle rifle doesn't chunk vehicles(but it did flip Warthogs) because incoming damage is absorbed by player shielding from all sources. You can drive around a smoldering wreck provided you can break line of sight to recharge your shields. What I find so distasteful about the chip damage system is that player skill cannot keep a vehicle alive when every shot from every source can were down your vehicles limited health pool. Reducing the DMR's damage just adds a bit of time to the clock, it doesn't fix the awful attrition based vehicle system.

If you honestly want to improve Reach do something that actually fixes the underlying problems not the symptoms. The DMR appears to "do too much damage" because the vehicles were made worse going from Halo 3-Reach. If we are going to patch the game anyways, which would be required to reduce the DMR's damage to vehicles, why wouldn't we just go ahead and fix the more serious issue?
If they did it, then that's perfect. But that would require another Title Update, wouldn't it? I don't believe developers are going to change the gameplay so deeply, as you would have to completely rework the vehicle's health to something similar to Halo 3/Halo 2.

Even if they end up doing so, you still have the crossmap problem due to the smaller than usual reticle, the 3x zoom, the decreased bloom and the single bullet functionality in constrast to the old BR, where you had to lead your shots in order to succed.

I suppose the best solution is to try AR + Pistol starts in BTB (which can include the Anniversary Magnum as you said somewhere, as we're just testing), which is easier to change, but if we're going to risk then fix it all at the same time (the health, DMR bloom or rate of fire...). Either solution wouldn't remove DMR starts as I don't want to take the fun out of anyone.
If they did it, then that's perfect. But that would require another Title Update, wouldn't it? I don't believe developers are going to change the gameplay so deeply, as you would have to completely rework the vehicle's health to something similar to Halo 3/Halo 2.

Even if they end up doing so, you still have the crossmap problem due to the smaller than usual reticle, the 3x zoom, the decreased bloom and the single bullet functionality in constrast to the old BR, where you had to lead your shots in order to succed.

I suppose the best solution is to try AR + Pistol starts in BTB (which can include the Anniversary Magnum as you said somewhere, as we're just testing), which is easier to change, but if we're going to risk then fix it all at the same time (the health, DMR bloom or rate of fire...). Either solution wouldn't remove DMR starts as I don't want to take the fun out of anyone.
So would reducing the damage. I also don't really expect them to do massive changes either. We also have precisely zero reason to change BTB to AR starts because people forgot that Reach had issues. Reach BTB is inferior to H2/H3 BTB because of the vehicle system(and overall worse maps, mechanics, etc, but I digress) Anniversary Magnum is the only thing even worth considering and that is only because I honestly don't remember if it had the same spread issues that the standard Magnum does.

But all of this is neither here nor there because the OP is claiming that the DMR does "too much damage" when it cannot be accurately judged due to the massive changes to how vehicle health functions. People are just latching on to the DMR as a scapegoat to avoid talking about the fact they bought Reach either without knowing what they were getting into or just forgot how Reach actually played. Reach as released was more or less exactly what I expected for good or ill. If you don't find Reach or Reach BTB specifically very fun, don't play it.

I didn't come into Reach with rose-tinted glasses or expecting to "fix" the game to suit my ideas of what the game is supposed to be rather than what it is. If we really want to fix the 9 year old game, we might as well go all the way rather slapping on bandaid "solutions" which don't fix underlying problems. Reducing the DMR's damage to vehicles is the perfect example of a feel-good measure which ultimately accomplishes little.
WerepyreND wrote:
[...]
[...]But all of this is neither here nor there because the OP is claiming that the DMR does "too much damage" when it cannot be accurately judged due to the massive changes to how vehicle health functions.

[...]Reducing the DMR's damage to vehicles is the perfect example of a feel-good measure which ultimately accomplishes little.
We can accurately judge it. The fact that there's a different vehicle health system doesn't mean the fabric of reality no longer holds. We can still count.
Rusttey wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
[...]
Shoot a vehicle with a needle rifle then shoot it with a DMR. In fact, just shoot a vehicle with most weapons in the game bar power weapons or play Elite slayer, suddenly vehicles play a lot differently

Not going to deny what you're saying isn't an issue but I can't possibly see how you can say the DMR is not a problem when the closest another weapon comes to replicating the DMR's effect on vehicles is the Sniper Rifle- except everyone spawns with one
If it's a "feel good" measure, then that's because it would feel good to not start everyone with anti-materiel long-range rifles in vehicular gametypes. Lowering the long-range anti-materiel rifle's damage to vehicles or not starting everyone with one all the time would certainly address this issue. Vehicles would not melt nearly instantaneously at all ranges. Both of these measures are also 100% easier-to and are more likely to be implemented than fundamentally changing the game's mechanics to act like a different game.

This is why people are disagreeing with you. It feels like you're talking past them without understanding what they're saying, talking down to them all the while.
Its fun because the DMR is god like against vehicles but in the other hand the nedleer rifle bounces... Who made a weapon that bounces?
The covonent apparently
Its fun because the DMR is god like against vehicles but in the other hand the nedleer rifle bounces... Who made a weapon that bounces?
The covonent apparently
It was a reference to Red Vs Blue but nevermind.
Its fun because the DMR is god like against vehicles but in the other hand the nedleer rifle bounces... Who made a weapon that bounces?
The covonent apparently
It was a reference to Red Vs Blue but nevermind.
I haven't watched it yet, but I plan too.
Its fun because the DMR is god like against vehicles but in the other hand the nedleer rifle bounces... Who made a weapon that bounces?
The covonent apparently
It was a reference to Red Vs Blue but nevermind.
I haven't watched it yet, but I plan too.
Don't bother its a waste of time :)
Its fun because the DMR is god like against vehicles but in the other hand the nedleer rifle bounces... Who made a weapon that bounces?
When reduce the AR on Halo 5 the peope don’t like
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